Dr. York Kleinhandler 0:00

See, knowledge is power, and there are two ways you have power. This is an old story. You can either hoard it, be the linchpin, be the point of failure if you will, and everybody has to come through you, and generally businesses fail when they're like that. I like to take that word power, and I love to add two letters to the front of it, empower, and I love to share everything that I have learned I wanna share. I wanna give information to everyone. I want everyone to be better.

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Today's conversation is with Dr. York Kleinhandler, who brings more than 40 years leadership experience across US Army Special Forces, federal law enforcement, business, and higher education. If you've ever felt unsure about what you want to be, York's story shows how direction can come from unexpected places. A John Wayne movie that he watched in a drive-in, his 10th grade history teacher, and the Vietnam veteran sergeant who watched him teach one class. Each one moved him closer to the work he does today. He speaks to first responders and defense, technology, and

Speaker 2 1:18

finance leaders about

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how sharing what they know makes everyone around them better This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. We explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life, and you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves so you can become your own version of authentic success.

Caroline 1:43

Dr. York Kleinhandler, welcome to Your Next Success.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:47

Thank you for having me on. I look forward to our chat

Caroline 1:50

Okay, so in Next Success style, we're gonna get to all the amazing things that you do. You are a professional speaker. You're author of a couple books. You do so much to help train leaders, help me understand, where were you born?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 2:04

I was born in the Bronx, New York. I have one sibling, a brother. parents got divorced when I was about six years old, and we lived in a neighborhood that over the next four or five years post-divorce, my mother could not get out of. if you're familiar with the stories of New York and the Bronx in particular, how as the ghetto was burning, it was moving closer and closer to where I lived. Well, I lived on the periphery of the ghetto in a very racially undiverse neighborhood where I was the minority. I started out as the majority and ended up as the minority My father was in the transportation business. He did car service type work. He was management. My mother worked for a bank for many years, back office

Caroline 2:52

And your brother, are older or younger

Dr. York Kleinhandler 2:54

my brother is two years younger than I

Caroline 2:56

What did you do for fun? Outside of school?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 3:00

In my neighborhood initially, it was the greatest place to grow up because kids would just meet. You know, you hear those stories, 8:00 in the morning, you leave your apartment. My brother and I would leave the apartment. We'd go up to the corner, within minutes, other kids showed up, and you just played.

Caroline Sangal 3:18

That's nice

Dr. York Kleinhandler 3:18

You know, we called it ringolivio, but it was hide and seek. As we got older, Johnny on the pony, stickball, sewer to sewer football. We could found ways to play baseball only three-- six kids, three on each team.

Caroline Sangal 3:32

Wow, that's pretty cool

Dr. York Kleinhandler 3:35

it was pretty cool growing up in the early days. And then as I got older, with sports. I played sports all the way through high school

Caroline Sangal 3:43

What sports

Dr. York Kleinhandler 3:44

in high school I wrestled, I ran track, I played football a little bit. I tried to just stay out of trouble, if you will

Caroline Sangal 3:53

And why did you wanna stay out of trouble?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 3:56

Because of the neighborhood I lived in, a lot of people became one of two things, cops or criminals, and I decided I'd rather be on the righteous side of that equation

Caroline 4:09

in the sports that you were doing, were you a player or a leader or both?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 4:16

A combination of both. You know, back then it was a little different. Kids were a lot more outgoing. We were much more unsupervised. So at different times, different people would take charge of the situation depending upon who was there. we had the pure alpha kind of person who no matter who else was there, they had to run roughshod over everything. But when they weren't there, and especially there was an age dynamic involved as well.

Caroline Sangal 4:45

Yeah.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 4:45

We ran from eight years old all the way up to 14, 15.

Caroline Sangal 4:50

Did you have to hop back and forth house to house, or how'd that work out?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 4:53

I had one parent. My father was not the most reliable man. There were times in my life where, as I'm older now, I understand, the situation better. My mother would dress us up, my father was supposed to come pick us up. Two hours later, my brother and I were truly annoyed because we were dressed up and in the house, and my father was a no-show. That's probably the way my life went with him for most of my, developmental years, into my adulthood

Caroline Sangal 5:21

So who did you choose as a strong role model then, aside from your mother?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 5:28

probably had, had a couple of teachers who had influence on me, probably in junior high school is when I needed the most help, and I had a couple of teachers. My mother had friends, I knew some of the law enforcement people in the neighborhood, so I kind of had a mishmash very different and diverse models. And when I say role models, I don't mean they were perfect in any stretch of the word. I think I learned a lot more about being a human being from the bad things people did

Caroline Sangal 5:58

Yeah.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 5:58

from the good things people did

Caroline Sangal 6:00

I see. Were there any particular school subjects that you liked more than others?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 6:07

I disliked school, period.

Caroline Sangal 6:08

Ah!

Dr. York Kleinhandler 6:08

I believe I was under-engaged. I was one of those kids who grasped things fairly quickly you know, in public school you're moving at a moderate pace, you're moving at the pace of the middle of the class, and I was generally ahead. So I got into some trouble in high school because of that. I decided that I would rather be outside in the parking lot hanging out than in the classroom doing what was done. I had a, I believe it was a 10th grade history teacher who said something to me that obviously has had a profound effect since I graduated high school decades ago. He said to me, "I have to explain to you the only person you're fooling is yourself. You show up, you get 90s on... nine- high 90s on tests. You don't do any schoolwork. I know you don't study. One day you'll realize the only person you're fooling is you. You think you're getting away with something right now."

Caroline Sangal 7:09

Did you realize it then?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 7:11

Oh, I, I blew him off. I laughed at him. I go, "Yeah, yeah, I got this." You know, I was, I was an arrogant, wise-ass teenager living in the Bronx in a racially divided neighborhood, hanging out doing what I thought I had to do

Caroline 7:25

Now, what was the first job you ever had? What did you choose to do then?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 7:29

We, you know, to, to have any kind of social existence, you had to earn a living in my house. Money was tight. So my first job, I delivered newspapers. I delivered for the Daily News. early in the morning. I delivered for the New York Post at a separate time later in the day. That was my first job, you know, going from building to building, various different apartments. Got the newspaper, you drop the paper on their doorstep, then I laugh because even back then you had to chase them for your money. know, you'd tell them, you'd come ring the bell and say, "Listen, you owe me for three weeks." "Oh, I don't have cash. Come back next week."

Caroline Sangal 8:04

Mm-hmm.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 8:05

I learned a lot about people from that as well

Caroline 8:08

Okay, so you're growing up, you're realizing in some regards there's friends to play with, and that's fun when you're outside. In being with the people of all ages, you're able to find your place. You start enjoying sports. There's times that you're a player, there's times that you're a leader when it's appropriate. You don't necessarily have a strong male role model in your house, but you find some in the community, and some of them have said profound things that, that gave you room to think and maybe reflect as from a older age, "Oh, wow. that was actually helpful." So now as you kinda go through high school, how do you decide what you're gonna do when that phase is done? What starts coming in? 'Cause you're the older brother. It's on you.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 8:56

none of my family, you know, my immediate family had ever gone to college. I, I had the ability to attend college. know, I was smart enough. I applied to some schools. I got into a local school and I equate it to being in high school on steroids. You know, it isn't like I went away and I lived in a dorm and I had independence. No, I was still living in the same house I had lived in for the previous 18 years of my existence. I was just going off to school and working part-time, it did not engage me, so I lasted about a year to a local school

Caroline 9:35

So you went and you tried and you realized it's just, it's the same old rigmarole and nothing really engaging

Dr. York Kleinhandler 9:43

And honestly, I also didn't know what I wanted to be in life. I, I had thoughts, I had ideas, but I didn't know. And initially, thought going to college would give me a little more idea. It would expose me to different things. And then I was very disappointed when I found out i- it was just gave me a little more freedom to do things as I wanted, but it wasn't doing what I needed it to do. And I could see that the bad things, the siren of mischief was calling me, if you will, and I decided maybe I, I need to find a different route than hang out here and ultimately get into trouble

Caroline 10:24

Okay. Now what? what comes on your radar? How do you choose?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 10:28

Well, it, it's very funny how this happened. early in my senior year, you're talking to the guy who walked out of school at a whim, didn't care. They were offering a half a day off if you took the Armed Service Aptitude Battery test, You. So don't ask me why, 'cause as I say, I would be very capable of just walking out of the high school doors, not caring. I took the test. I scored exceedingly well. So driving around one day, I can remember vividly now. January, right after the new year in 1981. I drive by this recruiting office, and I, I don't know why, I said, "You know what? Let me walk in here and see what they're gonna sell me. Let me see. Maybe there's something here for me." I wasn't sure, and I ended up-- I thought I was gonna walk into the Navy recruit. I ended up walking into the Army recruiter. First of all, you have to understand, in 1981, if you recall, the military was not exactly the institution it is today, and it is not looked at in near the way it is today. you were considered a loser in 1981 if you went into the military, lot of people.

Caroline Sangal 11:49

Really? Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 11:51

So I was bucking a trend. I walked in, had a conversation. They find out I took the ASVAB. They get my scores. I'm a high school graduate. You know, they're tripping over themselves. So I said, "What's the next step?" They go, "You gotta go to this place called MEPS. It's the Military Entrance Placement Program." So make an appointment. The guy picks me up at, like, 05 in the morning. We drive out to Fort Hamilton in the middle of nowhere. You know, it takes forever to get there from the Bronx. It is in Brooklyn. And I go through the process, and I kind of start thinking, "I kinda have an idea why I'm here. I kinda have an idea what I wanna be." And it's funny. I flash back, and it's one of the few things I can recall doing with my father when I was seven, eight, nine years old. We went to the drive-in. I know this is going to sound cliché. We went to the drive-in, and we saw the John Wayne movie, The Green Beret I, I, you know, it flashed in my head while I'm in the MEPS station, 'cause the first thing you do is they do the physical, so all of this is ruminating. So I get to the MEPS station, you know, I get through the physical. obviously healthy enough. I think they were passing everybody back then. They were needing of bodies. was healthy enough anyway, though. I sit down with the counselor and I say to him, I wanna be a Green Beret. I know that they sometimes let people in off the street. I can leverage my scores. I wanna be a Green Beret medic." He types on his computer. He looks at his things. He goes, "Yeah, that's not available." I go, "What does that mean?" He goes, "It's not available." go, "Okay. What other options I got?" He says, "You can be an 11 Bravo. That's an infantryman." I go, "Come on. That's not what I wanna be." you know, he was reeling me in. I, I know that now, but,

Caroline Sangal 14:02

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 14:04

He goes, "There's a unit that's only a few years old. You could be an 11 Bravo, and you can go to the Ranger battalions." There were two Ranger battalions. goes, back then you had options. It was like an à la carte menu. You signed in. You, you picked your, your, your specialty. They gave you some money maybe if there was a bonus and they were hurting, so there was some money on the table. I could go be a Ranger, meaning I'm going to get jump school before I go to the Ranger battalion. I can either go to Fort Lewis, Washington or Savannah, Georgia. I said, "You know, Savannah's a lot closer to New York." I don't know why that mattered, but so I end up enlisting as an 11 Bravo with an Airborne Ranger contract, so I'm gonna go to Airborne school and then to the Ranger battalion, and I have to, you know, do what the Ranger battalion requires of me to stay

Caroline Sangal 14:58

You don't actually know anybody who served in the military in your family

Dr. York Kleinhandler 15:03

had family members who served in the-- I had an uncle who was in D-Day. I never really spoke to him about it 'cause he didn't speak to anybody and by the time I found out, he was too old. And it's funny, I was talking with my cousin recently about that. He goes, "You have no idea how proud my father is of you and your military career, and it's a shame you never got to speak to him 'cause you're the one guy in the family who has lived his life and probably would've spoke to him." So I missed that opportunity, but no, I had some relatives. my father spent a year in the Navy. You know, I didn't even know anything about that really back then. He got injured and got out, you know, so I really don't count his service as anything of substance to what I was doing

Caroline Sangal 15:47

Got you. But initially you thought maybe you'd do Navy, but then you found yourself in the Army

Caroline 15:52

office.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 15:52

the reason I originally thought Navy is 'cause I was in the Sea Cadets you know, I figured maybe Sea Cadets, Navy, I understood the ranks, I

Caroline Sangal 16:00

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 16:01

Somehow I ended up walking into the Army office and shall we say the rest was history

Caroline 16:06

Okay, so you stop by this office in January, kinda on a whim, that leads you into this path, and then you sign up and then what did your mom think about

Dr. York Kleinhandler 16:19

on January 16th, signed the paperwork. I left January 27th at in the morning. So 11 days later, I was on my way boot camp. I called my mother from the MEPS, and, you know, my mother, pragmatic woman my mother was, she, she knew. She knew that I was searching for things and never saw me going down this path. But I was almost a 19-year-old man at this point. I gotta make my own decisions. My mother understood that. She supported me. Years later she told me this story. My father heard through the grapevine that I had joined the military. He called and screamed at her and said, "How dare you? How can you let him do this?" And my mother says, "You got no say in this matter. Don't worry about it." So yeah, there were people like, family members called me, for lack of a better term, a loser. Like a last option sort of thing, and they didn't see it. And to me, I didn't see it as a last option

Caroline 17:29

Okay, so now you go there, What were your first thoughts when you first go in there? What are you thinking?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 17:37

So one of the funniest things is the first three days-- First of all, I gotta start with the first plane ride I ever took was on January 27th. I'd never been on a plane in my life. So, you know, we get to the airport, and somehow I end up with everybody's plane ticket. They somehow de facto peg me as the mature one. We fly to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. So, and I found this out many, many, many years later, but they're very nice to you for the first three days, 'cause back then there was some sort of contract law that you can break your contract within three days and walk away. So they were pretty nice to you. They issued you uniforms. There was minimal yelling. You know, we get our uniforms. Everything is good. We're sleeping in open bays. You know, that's a little bit of a new experience, all the noises and all the strangeness. know, you go to the bathroom in a bathroom with 32 toilets, 16 lined up on each side, and if you think there's a barrier between the toilets, you're sadly mistaken. You can have complete adult conversations, view, with 31 other guys if you're all on the can together. New experience. So this six-foot-five, very large drill sergeant shows up. We get on a bus, and they must have drove in circles for hours 'cause it's like, it, it does not take nine hours to get from Fort Jackson, South Carolina to Fort Benning, Georgia. But then we get on the bus. The drill sergeant's really nice, blah, blah, blah. You know, you know, it's chill. pull in to where we're gonna get off the bus, and this raging lunatic, who was the calmest human being hours ago, screams, "Get the F off my bus. You've got three seconds, and two of them are gone. You better effing move." And there's, you know, guys running off. And now everybody's got the same duffel bag, looks exactly alike. You're trying to find your duffel bag. They're screaming and yelling at you. And we line up, and we end up standing on these, you know, painted feet at the proper position of attention, little yellow feet. And all I hear is this one sergeant scream, "He's going down!" You know, I'm staring straight ahead going, "Look at nothing. Look at nothing. Maintain." He's going down, and I see the guy next to me start to wobble, and these two huge beasts of a drill sergeant walk over, grab him, and start shaking him, immediately two things come to my head. What the hell did you get yourself into? is Georgia. It's not supposed to be 35 degrees in Georgia. I'm freezing You know, 'cause I'm in a uniform, the old school uniform, and it, no jacket, nothing. And I'm like, "Oh, this is, this is really gonna suck. What have, what have I done?"

Caroline Sangal 20:36

Now what happened to the guy? Was he just like scared or like dehydrated or like what happened?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 20:40

And if you lock your knees and you stand rigid, you cut off blo- blood circulation to your head, head tells you to fall down

Caroline Sangal 20:48

Interesting. Interesting. Okay, okay, so this is your first experience and you're like, "What is this?" And then what happened?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 20:57

we settled into a routine. I was a fairly disciplined young man. You know, I played sports. I knew when to behave, when not to. So I held my place. I did fine, and I got through basic training with, minimal problems, shall we say. and then we moved on to the next phase

Caroline Sangal 21:17

And when you signed up, how many years did you think it was gonna be?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 21:21

Oh, I signed up for four years of active duty, and then four years on the inactive roll. So, but the initial enlistment was a total of eight years. Four years active, four years inactive

Caroline Sangal 21:34

Was that scary to try to make a four-year commitment into the unknown?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 21:40

It was, but for me, I felt it would give me a chance to figure out more of who I am, what I want to be. And as I said to you, the temptation of doing stupid things very prevalent, and there were a lot of people who have been that devil sitting on my right shoulder in my own group of friends, and I decided I needed to...

Caroline 22:03

Do something different

Dr. York Kleinhandler 22:05

I'm smarter than that.

Caroline 22:06

What were some of the thats that they were doing that you weren't gonna do?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 22:11

I know guys who did robberies. I know guys who broke into cars. I didn't need any of that. That was not... I'm like, I was wise enough even back then to know that that will get you in trouble, and that's a trouble that stays with you long term. Remember, I lived in a questionable neighborhood, shall we say. So it was there. And drugs were starting to come onto the scene at that point as well. I know guys who were smoking pot all the time. I know guys who were moving on to other things. I know guys who were distributing drugs. And, you know, I'm thinking, "They're making a lot of money, but you know what? I better go find... I better, I better get out of the hood for a minute

Caroline 22:49

So what was your first e- like what was your first position in the Army when you're first in there? Like, everybody ends up having a job. Like s- yeah, what was your job?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 22:59

In basic training

Caroline 23:01

Like let's say when you got to the thing, yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 23:03

I ended up in the Ranger Battalion. You go through this thing called RIP, Ranger Indoctrination Process. It has a reasonable failure rate. managed to get through that after, you know, eight weeks. Some good things about it, we jumped every Monday. Yeah, it was every Monday morning. We did four or-- to five airborne jumps every Monday morning, so I became very proficient in my parachuting after seven weeks. You know, I had over 30 jumps, plus the jumps at basic training. They do that on purpose, so when you get to the battalion, you have a skill set to already be, you know, airborne capable. So I then got to Charlie Company, first of the 75th Ranger Battalion, Savannah, Georgia. Ended up in weapons platoon. I ended up as an assistant 90 gunner. A 90 gun is an anti-tank weapon that weighs I still remember these numbers. 37.5 pounds with its sight on. Do you know what a pain it is to carry that through the woods and everywhere else? Well, that was what I was doing.

Caroline Sangal 24:06

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 24:06

I started out there. Then I complained, very s-strategically, I might add, not a full-out complaint, and they said to me, "Why don't you go to the mortar section, part of weapons platoon?" I became an FDC, a fire direction control person. I-- What we call whizzing the wheel. I would figure out, you know, the azimuth, and the direction, and the elevation for the, for the mortars for them to fire on target. Those were my first two jobs in the, in the wonderful world of the military

Caroline Sangal 24:44

And when you first had to jump out of a plane, were you jazzed about it or terrified?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 24:51

I was fairly jazzed, and the way it's supposed to happen, at jump school, the drop zone is massive, and it's soft. It's kinda like, you know, they don't want you to kill yourself on the opening salvos, Friday Z. what happens is one person, in my opinion at the time, gets stuck standing at the door waiting the first person to go in maybe 14, 15 people, and so you're the guy looking out, watching fly over everything. Everybody else... We're in the back of the plane. There's no windows. I can't... All I see is the guy in front of me holding the static line like this thinking, when they tell you to move, move. Do the airborne shuffle." They stop the stick, and now I'm the guy in the door, and we're doing what we call a racetrack. We're circling back around the DZ. And all I'm doing is seeing houses that look like Monopoly houses. All right? I am now up in the air probably 15, 1800 feet. I don't remember, but you know, I'm exaggerating a little. But I'm looking at these things, and I know they're houses. I see cars. I know they're cars, but they look microscopic. And I'm thinking to myself, "This guy's gonna hit me in the ass, and I'm gonna tell him, 'Oh, hell no. I'm quitting.'" He smacks me in the ass, imprinted, up six, 36. Didn't even know I left the aircraft for about a half a second. I'm like, "Holy shit, I jumped out. What do I gotta do now?" And then I went into the procedures, and I, I've jumped many times since that day,

Caroline Sangal 26:34

Did you ever

Caroline 26:34

count how many times?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 26:37

Oh, I have well over 150.

Caroline 26:39

All right, so now you're doing this stuff. From the guns to the mortars, and you're still jumping, and then what? How does this kinda morph? Because this ended up being quite a long... It wasn't four years. It wasn't four years.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 26:51

we'll get to

Caroline 26:52

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 26:53

I end up, for various and sundry reasons I won't completely go into, leaving the Ranger Battalion. They asked me to go to the 24th Infantry Division down the road, so I go there. Now, prior to that, I had put in what we call a 4187 to go to Special Forces. I still had that I wanna be a Green Beret bug. I go there. I'm there about four months. My captain, company commander, who happened to have been a Special Forces officer, calls me in his office and he goes, "I have good news I have bad news, Corporal Kleinhandler." I'm like, "Oh brother, here we go. What's going wrong in my world now?" I got in trouble for something. He goes, "Which would you like first?" go Let's start with the bad news. He goes, "You know that 4187 you put in to go to Special Forces? Well, you got picked up for what they call..." I'm explaining this to you, I knew

Caroline Sangal 28:00

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 28:01

picked up on Levy, meaning I am going OCONUS. I am going overseas. My next assignment overseas. he goes, "You got picked up le- for Levy for Korea." I'm like, "Yeah, that's really bad news. That sucks. It's freezing, and I don't wanna go there." He goes, "Now would you like the good news?" I go, "Yes." "You're a very good soldier." They had openings for people who met qualifications to go to Berlin Brigade. gotta understand, this is 1983. The Berlin Wall is up.

Caroline Sangal 28:37

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 28:37

The Soviets have a sector. all kinds of political turmoil, and they were only sending supposedly really good soldiers over to Berlin, Germany, to be in West Berlin. He goes, I was able to talk them into moving you from Korea to West Germany, to Berlin- to West Berlin." I go, "Okay. a lot better than Korea." my God, was it better than K- It w- turned out to be an excellent two years for my life. So I ended up going to Berlin for two years. Now, I played rugby when I was in Berlin for the Army team. I fractured my ankle probably in Mm, March of 1984. I had put in, again, 'cause I was getting ready to leave the military, my time in the service was gonna be up January 1985. So one more time I said, "You know what? Let me give this one more opportunity." I put in that 4187 for Special Forces just before I break my ankle. So now it's July, August. I get the word that can go to Special Forces training. You have to extend for two years. So I go speak to the career counselor, and I ask him very point blank, you know, and it w- it's hard to get through the Special Forces qualification course. It's got a, it's got a fairly robust failure rate. I'm coming off a broken ankle, blah, blah, blah, you know, so on and so forth. So I say to the counselor, "I fail out of the Q course, where do I end up?" "Oh, you're going right down the street to the 82nd Airborne, you know, one of the most conventional units in the world." I go, "Yeah, thank you. No, I'm not. I'll be ETSing in, i- in January. You have a great day." Didn't, didn't even blink about it. I said, "No way." Loved my time in the Ranger Battalion, not going back to anything like that ever again. Said, "You know what? Maybe I'll go home. I'll go to ROTC." That lasted about three days after I got home. That went by the wayside. But I come home And I end up saying, "You know, I need money. don't wanna get a real job. What if I join the National Guard? I kinda know what I'm doing there. I kinda have some decent skill sets. I'm only out of service like 60, 90 days." So I go see a recruiter, and I ask the recruiter, I say, "Listen, I have heard rumor there are Reserve and National Guard Special Forces units." He goes, "That doesn't exist. Stop." I go, "I know there are airborne units." He goes, "None in New York." He talks me into going into the 69th Infantry Division, famous from World War II. So I go down on a Wednesday night, and I meet the company commander first sergeant of this unit. These are the two, the senior NCO and the senior officer, and within 35 seconds, I realize I know more about the military than both of them You know, I'm just some sergeant. You know, listen, I had the expert infantry badge. I have the jump wings. I spent ti- a long time in the Ranger Battalion, spent time in Berlin. So they're excited. They ask me, "We have drill this weekend. Can you please come to drill? Do you have a uniform?" I go, "Yes, I have a set of BDUs I can put on. I'll come to drill." We're getting to how I ended up with 41 years total time in military service. So I show up at the drill. The first sergeant tells me, "You know, we're go-," and he already told me this on Wednesday. We're going up to Camp Smith. It's about an hour and a half away. We're gonna do some basic infantry training. Ca- we'll figure out what we wanna do with you. Just step-- Can you step off to the side for now?" I "Sure. No problem, first sergeant." So I'm standing over there as an orphan. They have a company formation. They promote this young kid from specialist to E5, which is a big deal. know, you go from the lower enlisted ranks to now you're a non-commissioned officer. So we get on the bus. The first sergeant comes over to me and says, "You know, I'm not going to the field. gonna have a field first." Cru- he points at some crusty old guy, he's a Vietnam veteran. He goes, "He's your field first." I go, "No problem." He introduces me to him. He says, says, Young sergeant, you hang out. I'll get to you shortly. Just get on the bus for Camp Smith." "No problem. problem, field first. You got it." get up to Camp Smith. We get off the bus. I'm the orphan. But it was good. I got to observe everything. I got to see everything. They have the formation. They put everybody in the bleachers, you know, for a, a classroom activity, the guy who was just promoted to E5 is giving the class. And all his buddies are giving him a hard time, and he's fumbling around and I'm 60 to 90 days off active duty in two very serious infantry units. I have a lot of experience. I stood by for 45 minutes. I watched it go on. You know, my hackles are up. I'm annoyed. I walk over to him. I go, "First, you don't know me, but congratulations on being promoted. I see you're having trouble with the class and the people in the company." goes, "Yeah, I am." I said, "Would you like me to take over the next part of your class?" He looks at me and goes, "You can do that?" I go, "Oh, I promise you I can do that I get up, sits down. I walk up, I say, "None of you know me. I'm Sergeant Kleinhandler. I'm new to the unit." Some guy makes a loud, stupid comment. I yell at him very militarily to get the F out of the bleachers and get in the front-leaning rest position. The whole bleachers is stunned to silence now. I proceed to give my class. Now, I release them, and they're gonna go with their seniors, and they're gonna do practical application. This crusty, old first sergeant comes over to me and goes, Sarge, you can't be in this unit." I am standing there now thinking, "I've been in the unit for approximately four hours, and I've been fired.

Caroline Sangal 35:07

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 35:08

I am being kicked out of the unit." That's the way I took it.

Caroline 35:10

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 35:48

he goes, "Sarge, Sarge, that is the best class I have ever seen given on those procedures. Y-you don't get it. I used to be a real Now I'm just some old guy marking my time, doing what I gotta do. These young guys, they just wanna come here. They wanna hang out. They wanna be friends. They wanna drink at night. not real soldiers." Then he says the magic words to me that actually changed my life. You got to go to that Special Forces unit." I go, "I'm sorry. Excuse me?" He goes, "I don't have much information, there is a Green Beret Special Forces unit in Tappan, New York, that is where you have to go." I go, "Okay." So go home. I go to another recruiter now. You know, now I've had three recruiter experiences. But this time I'm a little wiser, and I said, "Here's the deal. I just did one drill in the National Guard. If can find this exact unit I'm telling you about, will sign. If you cannot, going back in the IRR, and my military career has come to closure Like four or five days later, he calls me up and he goes... The first words out of his mouth, I think it would've been easier to get the telephone number for the switchboard to the CIA, but I got a phone number. I made a call, I spoke to the battalion sergeant major of First of the 11 Special Forces. He wants to meet you I'm like, "When are we going?

Caroline Sangal 37:35

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 37:35

So, he picks me up the day we're supposed to meet him. I go. Never forget Sergeant Major Santos. I walk in, in uniform. Major Santos already knows everything about Sergeant Clyde Handler. I thought I'm going there for an interview, and I'm gonna have to sell myself. four minutes in, he goes, "I think I wanna put you in the S3 section," which is the operations section. "You'll learn some things about Special Forces. You'll get a great overview, and as soon as we can get you to the Q course, we will send you. I know you're physically fit to pass." April 1985, I finally got into a Special Forces unit, and I retired from the regiment in February of 2022. I spent 37 years in the Special Forces regiment, all because some crusty, old former Vietnam veteran "You're too much of a soldier to be in a crazy National Guard unit like this. You gotta go to this Special Forces unit."

Caroline 38:45

So did he work the back angles? You know, it's like here's this older guy seeing in you capabilities that you knew you had. You kinda had this desire that you wanted to do, but you just needed somebody to unlock that extreme leadership level as even possibilities, right?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 39:04

Yes. No, I think it was purely luck of the draw.

Caroline 39:11

Wow

Dr. York Kleinhandler 39:11

Crazy old crusty guy knew somebody who was in a supply position in Tappan, New York, in a Special Forces unit, knew it existed, didn't know anything else about it, but sent me on my journey with just enough information for me to succeed. Well, and you know, a year later I ended up going to the Q course, that's a Special Forces qualification course, and earned my Green Beret and, like I said, spent 37 years in the regiment

Caroline 39:47

But what were some of the highlights that you could talk about? And then we're gonna get to lowlights. But like, so either way, lowlights or highlights, what were some of the e- either one from, from that?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 40:00

My career. I mean, I, I, I excelled. It was the place your client handler needed to be. It was the type of job... came home in November of 199- 1983 on leave, and I so didn't wanna go overseas, and I was looking for angles to get out of the Army after two years. I knew it wasn't gonna happen, but, you know, I figured I could look my... then I got overseas, and I'm like, "I am," you know, as I said, "I'm getting out. I'm not coming back." That ROTC thing lasted about three days for me when I was thinking about it after I got home. But I was done with the military. it called me back, it got me where I needed to be. Highlights? I retired at the highest rank that a warrant officer can retire at. The end of my career, I was advising two- and three-star generals. I had a GO once tell me, "Yes, I know you're gonna say I told you so, and you'll get to say it when it fails one time after it fails." It failed. He goes, "Go ahead." just laughed and... You know, that, that's my high points. I mean, listen, I, I had low points. I, unfortunately, as you know, in 2001, we went to war. Special Forces was a tremendous part. We took a large number of casualties, and I lost people on multiple de- you know, multiple deployments, people in my units died. But in 2009, I approved the mission of multi-- I approved missions for multiple people who ended up not coming home and also guys getting injured and, you know, I take ownership for that, my piece in those decisions. Those are some of the lows

Caroline Sangal 41:48

And yet you kept staying on, right?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 41:50

So I was very fortunate. I was in the National Guard. I was pre-9/11, I had the greatest situation in the world. I would go to South America, Central America, or the Caribbean or Europe for three weeks, interact with foreign troops, get some downtime. It was like a vacation doing what you loved pre-9/11. That was easy. Post 9/11 changed everything. I was going to combat zones, I continued to do it. And then what happened is 2015, I was deployed to the Middle East. was the op- I was the operations director for, the Joint Special Operations Task Force in Arabian Peninsula. I was sitting in the director's seat running all operations, and I was the deputy when there was somebody above me. And in July of that year, I had deployed in January, I started my deployment. July, I get a phone call from somebody I know says, "Listen, you're the only guy qualified for this job at Fort Bragg." He was a friend of mine also. He goes, "Call Jackie and ask her what she thinks. would love for you to come do three, four years at Fort Bragg, guaranteed." Called Jackie Jackie says, "I can't... I'm..." You know, she had her own job. "I'm not ready to retire, but I'm sure we can make it work. You'll fly home." You know, I did the math, of course, you know. I said, "Yeah, I can easily, financially, we can have me fly back and forth. I'll fly home Thursday or Friday, go back Monday or Tuesday. I'll have the weekends home with the kids." My kids were all in high school, in college and high school at that point, so let's be honest. They just needed me for car keys and money right then, so it was easy. So I took the job, three years. I said it was gonna be for three years initially. Then they extended it to a fourth. Then they extended it to a fifth. Then my time in that position, I was the proponent for all warrant officers, Special Forces warrant officers in the National Guard. ran the program. Buddy of mine goes, "You know, we'd like you to come over to 1st SFC and be the senior Guard advisor for the operations and also the Guard advisor to the general on warrant officer matters in the Guard." That was supposed to be for one year. That ended up being two years. So on the back end of my military career, after having served in the Marshal Service, after having biven- been in the private sector for 13, 14 years, I went back on active duty for seven years, and I... So I started active duty for four years. I did 30 years in the Guard, where I did multiple, you know, deployments to the Middle East. I did multiple deployments to Europe. You know, and a deployment could be anywhere from three weeks to a year. And then my final seven years, I was back on active duty orders as a CW5, warrant officer five. I was still in the National Guard. I was the command chief warrant officer for 19th Special Forces Group. Probably the best five to seven years I had in the military

Caroline Sangal 45:13

What made it so?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 45:15

I had the ability to influence things. I had the ability to lead from the front. I was brand new to the 19th group. I went up there, and I was gonna become the CCW, the command chief warrant officer. So have this thing where I always, in any organization I'm in, I walk around the building, and I speak to people. So I went into the intelligence section at the unit. It's a SCIF, you know, a secure facility, so not anybody can walk in, but, you know, all leadership can. And, like, I walk in, and they're running around 'cause I'm in the room like a chicken with their heads cut off, and I'm like, "Why is this?" And I ask the warrant who's in charge of CW two, I go, "Why are you guys losing your mind?" He goes, "Chief, you don't get it. We've never had anybody walk in here before." I go, "What?" There's an entire intelligence section here. What do you mean you- Chief, we've never had any of the senior leadership in the organization walk in here before I'm like, "That makes no sense to me." So I got to imprint things my way and, you know, I made it that people show up.

Caroline Sangal 46:30

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 46:31

what other people are doing, you know? That's part of leadership

Caroline Sangal 46:35

Absolutely

Dr. York Kleinhandler 46:36

I had a lot of autonomy and freedom to do things the way I wanted to, and I was very successful because of that

Caroline Sangal 46:44

And when did you meet your wife?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 46:46

I met Jackie in September of 1991. I was in the Marshal Service. They were having a judicial conference for the Second Circuit, which means every federal judge is there, all the district judges, all the appellate judges. know, it's a big deal, so the Marshal Service is there protecting them. My wife's law firm was hosting the event, and, you know, there's differing stories depending upon if you ask Jackie or you ask I. I tell the true story. My wife mitigates the story. go with that theory. Her and I, had assigned posts, and they happened to coincide several of the assigned posts my wife was one of the law firm's ambassadors, for lack of a better term. So they had assigned posts. So it turns out that my wife and I, at the time we didn't even know each other beyond casual conversation, and that was at a minimal early on, got put in the same location multiple times, to the point where the managing director of the law firm asked her, he protecting the judges or you?" I give her that one. So I met her there, and then the final night they have this huge dinner. We are around the conference center standing outside. There's, like, 20 deputy US marshals standing around everybody's inside eating. The door opens. My much later in life to be wife walks out half of a filet mignon on a plate with a knife and fork and gives it to me. To this day, I get reminded of that by friends of mine who were there, but she says that she had nothing to do with the event. I, I, I was purely the one on the hunt, and I just remind her who brought whose steak

Caroline Sangal 48:46

Exactly.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 48:48

So that, that's how I met Jackie, at a judicial conference.

Caroline Sangal 48:53

That's a...

Dr. York Kleinhandler 48:54

and she was with a law firm

Caroline Sangal 48:55

And so how many years have you guys been married now?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 48:59

We have been together for 35 years. I carry it back to September of '91. We were talking

Caroline Sangal 49:05

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:06

up starting to date several months later, and then we got married in September. So we've been married 31 years and together

Caroline Sangal 49:16

Oh,

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:16

for 35 years

Caroline Sangal 49:17

And you've got several kids

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:19

I have three adult children who are probably my real legacy in life

Caroline 49:25

That's amazing.

Caroline Sangal 49:27

So

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:27

twenty-four, twenty-six, and twenty-eight.

Caroline 49:30

Wow.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:30

All doing well

Caroline 49:33

All right, so after you got out of the military, then what happened? Because that's still a couple years ago now, and now you're an author, and I know you coach people, you train people, but was it a direct leap, or what happened?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 49:45

I know how I ended up where I ended up, but I have never taken the straight route to anything, shall we say. You know, I, I've alluded to it. I spent, you know, many years in the Marshal Service. That was in concurrence to my National Guard time. I spent 13 to 15 years, I forget, depending upon how I look at it, in the sector, primarily in the finance space, in mid-sized financial institutions, while again concurrent to the military. The military has been the one steady, but I mean, I've done numerous other things. So I decided, I don't know why, this is the... Now remember, this is the kid who hated high school, the kid who dropped out of college after a year, the kid who took almost two decades to get his bachelor's degree. M-many years ago, probably 2014, 2015, I got a master's. I just said, "You know what? The government's gonna help me pay for this. I'm gonna get a master's degree." I got a master's degree. And then I got a bug and I said, "You know what? I'm gonna get a terminal degree. gonna get a doctorate." It was a long three years. I questioned my sanity multiple times, but I got my doctorate. So I decided I wanted to teach at the college level, and I ended up speaking to an individual who an adjunct professor at Duke University. He introduced me. Woman had a similar, you know, not the length of my career, but had-- was in the military, also was now in the financial world, and she had run for political office, and she deci-- you know, had taught at Duke as an adjunct. We had a nice conversation. We hit it off, and she was very candid, says, "I can't do anything for you, but I know somebody who possibly can." She introduced me to this retired Marine colonel runs a program at Duke, and he said... You know, we met, we spoke on the phone, we chatted. He said, "Can you create a developmental leadership syllabus, but something that's robust and real? Not, not, not the, you know, not the simple, easy, touchy-feely stuff. I want a real leadership th- and use your background as your own example." I created a proposal. He says, "All right, the proposal hits the mark. Can you create a syllabus?" Yeah, I thought it would be no problem. One of-- I think it might have been harder to do the syllabus than my dissertation for my doctorate. So I'm attending my doctorate, ultimately, I get hired to teach undergraduate level at Duke brick-and-mortar, one class a semester, an elective class, developmental leadership. So I teach at Duke for a couple of years, get-- I, I've completed my doctorate, and there are some changes at Duke, and they decide they no longer... I was not offended. I had a great run. They decided they were not gonna offer my elective anymore. I'm like, "Okay, great." I hear University of North Carolina of Education has just started an online doctoral program with the exact same name of the doctoral program I graduated from two years earlier or a year and a half earlier. I reach out to them. We go back and forth a bunch of-- you know, for a while. They're not ready for me. "We don't have anything available." Well, I'm ending my second year teaching there. I teach two separate courses there, and I actually sit on several committees of students for their dissertation, so I'm pretty entrenched there. the doctorate helped me with that. While all this is going on, now I moved to Cary in 2020 So I start meeting people. I run into this guy, you may know him, I'm not sure. Loud, talks into a microphone even when it's not hooked up. Guy's named Larry Long.

Caroline Sangal 53:57

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 53:58

I meet Larry and I start talking to him. I ask him, w- you know, we, we get to know each other and I start talking to him about this speaking thing. I go, "I do that twice a week now in a classroom."

Caroline Sangal 54:13

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 54:14

Larry kind of brings me in I learn about NSA. I come, I join, and I meet this other guy, Stan Phelps. Stan is very forthcoming with his time, his information, helps me further down the road, and I'm still not quite sure how we're here, but I have a website. I have a speaker's reel. written two books. finishing the manuscript. I wrote what I call two mini books. They're about 40 pages each.

Caroline Sangal 54:51

I have 'em.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 54:53

I know.

Caroline Sangal 54:54

I prepped

Dr. York Kleinhandler 54:55

I'm finishing the manuscript on a 300-page book.

Caroline Sangal 54:59

Wow

Dr. York Kleinhandler 55:00

I said, "You know, there's this system I use. I've never named it, but it's something I do, and it's worked really well for me, it has worked well for me in the military, in law enforcement, in the financial sector, and even in academia when I'm teaching class, when I'm giving them ideas on how to help improve what they're doing." This system comes to the top. I said, "So you know what?" I spoke to some people, and I pay respect to where it is. John Edwards and I had a deep conversation night, and he goes, "You have to. have to leverage the Special Forces thing." I go, "John, I can't. I feel that's disrespecting it." And we talk back and forth, and I go home, and I'm thinking, I decided I know how I can leverage the Special Forces things, and those that know, know, and those that don't know, I can tell them. I named my system Force Multiplier Leadership, and the reason for that is because the one thing I remember from the Special Forces qualification course back in 1986 is I and 11 of my contemporaries can show up, and we can create a 750-man army using proper training by just being 12 individuals. I said, "That's what my system does." It multiplies leadership capability. So for about a year, I sat with that system. This is even before I wrote the books, and then I started to think I wanna be a thought leader. I said... And then I said, "What does that mean?" And I realized it's exactly who I am and what I wanna be because the way I look at knowledge. See, knowledge is power, and there are two ways you have power. This is an old story. You can either hoard it, be the linchpin, be the point of failure if you will, and everybody has to come through you, and generally businesses fail when they're like that. I like to take that word power, and I love to add two letters to the front of it, empower, and I love to share everything that I have learned over which I keep saying forty-one, which is now more like, my God, forty-four years of this stuff. years I've been doing this, and I wanna share. I wanna give information to everyone. I want everyone to be better. I used to tell my students two, three times a semester, "I do not know impact I will have on you, but my goal is, be it ten weeks, ten months, ten years from now, you will be in a situation and you will have an epiphany and say, 'Oh my God, that crazy bald guy said this. happening, and I can do this.'" That to me is true leadership

Caroline 58:22

That's beautiful. And you've had so many people who gave and gave and gave to you. You know, you've mentioned several of them, And then even with NSA, which is National Speaker Associations, you met some of the most impactful, powerful guys who have put in the time and reps, and then, so Larry Long Jr., Stan Phelps, take you under their wing and help you and give and give and give into you. But you've never been a taker for taking's sake. You digest it, and then you go out and you give and give and give to others, whether that's all those years of really shaping our country's best military operations, special forces, Green Berets across the entire world, and now transformed to educational institutions, your own family. I've seen you give keynotes in your speaker reel. So not only, continuing to train leaders in education, but going back and helping first responders and all of those things. With all this giving, York, like, what's next? What is there still to give?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 59:29

I have this philosophy, the shark. You know, when sharks stop moving, they die. That will be me. I will continue to move to the very end. I am blessed for all the things I have done. am healthy. You know, I can still operate. I can still play golf horribly, but I can still play. And I wanna continue to give to the very end. I mean, I said it before, my biggest legacy is my three children. Luckily, I've been blessed, and I did not ruin them. At least I don't think I have. And I think that I've given them more than anybody else if you kn- you know. I mean, I really did. And my-- between me and my wife, their whole existence, and I don't mean biologically, I mean thought, love of country, and everything else comes from both of us. So I will always continue to empower to the end. I want to see everybody achieve most that they can achieve, be the very best they can. And remember, I came from poverty. I mean, there were nights we had eggs for dinner,

Caroline Sangal 1:00:41

Yeah

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:00:43

I have seen one side of the coin. But will continue to empower as long as I am able. I am always happy to give somebody an honest assessment of the situation and try to help them figure out what is best for them

Caroline Sangal 1:01:00

How do people find you?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:01:02

Well, my primary focus in life now is, my academic career, I do keynotes in four sectors. My favorite by far is the first responder sector. In fact, I just last week spoke in Austin, Texas, at an event called Force Science, where they focus on, the, force matrix and how it affects individuals. They spoke on, you know, proper use of deadly force, proper use of less than deadly force, things of that, and they invited me in to come in on a leadership vein, and so I was very happy with that. I speak to defense and aerospace organizations, I speak to technology companies, and I speak to finance companies. The way you can find me is at yorkspeaks.com. I run a decent social media campaign on LinkedIn, YouTube, and Instagram, and I do that all myself because I want to have that right touch. I don't want to assign it to somebody else. I know a lot of people do, I put in the effort myself. That, that's how you reach out to me, or you can just email me at York Speaks, york@yorkspeaks.com

Caroline 1:02:19

And from this vantage point, with all of the different successes that you've had in your personal life, in your work, and in your mission and impact, but how do you define authentic success for you in this moment?

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:02:34

It's a very deep question. To me, that impact. For example, the night-- It's funny, I, I had spoken to John Edwards. The night I spoke to John Edwards, it was after an NSA event. We were at a rooftop bar in Durham. I happened to see one of my students from Duke undergraduate. He was on a sports team and, you know, I saw him, he nodded at me. He was talking to a young woman. I didn't wanna go over and interfere, so I stayed where I was talking, but he came over to me, and we started chatting. And I said to him... I'm trying to respect his privacy, so I'm speaking very, you know, point. I said to him, "So I gotta ask you." You know, we... pleasantries for a few minutes. "I gotta ask you, do you ever use anything I said in class?" He laughs. He goes, "I'm captain of my team this year, and I think about eighty percent of what you've told me has been put into practice. I think you were great. Thank you. You taught me so much." to me is authentic success. share another one with you that happened a million years ago in the military. I told you I was in the Berlin Brigade in nineteen eighty-three. I had a young private, I remember him well. We'll call him P. So fast-forward, I had left and got out of service and, you know, went down my road, and we fast-forward to like nineteen nine- nineteen ninety-four, ninety-five. I'm in a dining facility in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and there's a guy sitting three tables away from me. I'm a warrant officer now. a E6 or E7, I don't remember. And at and then I look at his name tape. I go, "No way. This guy told me he's getting out of service. He hates the service." over and immediately he knows who I am, and I go, "All right, what happened? You were getting out of service last time I spoke to you." He goes, "No, you had a tremendous impact on me. I knew you were in the Rangers. I knew you wanted to be an SF guy, and I decided I wanna follow and be like you." That's how I deem authentic success. The fact that my children call me and ask me questions in my wheelhouse and they respect my opinion authentic success. And I wanna keep doing that people I know and even people I don't know till time stops for me

Caroline 1:05:32

Thank you, York, so very much. You know, months ago when I first joined, National Speakers Association as a newbie, Alex Dumas had said something like, "You need to be an ask hole, so go ahead and ask what you want." and then I thought, "Okay, okay. Well, I got this podcast, and it's starting to gain some traction. I got nothing to lose by just saying, 'If anybody could find value from being on a podcast to share your life and career story, I'd love to hear from you.'" And you kind of walked by, and you just dropped your card while I was talking to somebody else, and you're like, "I got a story that you wanna hear." And then you walked away. And "That's kind of badass. I was just like, "Yeah, that's succinct. That's positively differentiated, and it made me wanna learn more." I've observed you over the, over the months. Have tremendous respect for you, and then even coming to, to learn more about your story. But thank you so much for all of your time, for sharing your, your path, your insight, and your wisdom. See, so many people just see the success of now, and they don't understand all the twists and turns and pivots and choices and directions and things that you could have done, but ultimately what led you into being this amazing human who continues to give and transcend all the gifts that you were given to go out and help and shape the next generation and community around you.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:06:54

Thank you. It was my pleasure. I really, really enjoyed myself. I actually thought about things I haven't thought of in forever. You'll notice through most of the podcast I had a huge smile, so I appreciate you giving back to me and letting me reminisce

Caroline 1:07:09

Aw, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, York. I can't wait for your continued success when you get that 300-page book back. I feel like we're gonna have to have another episode just to kinda help promo that. So whatever we can do to support each other, I am down for it for as long as you want to.

Dr. York Kleinhandler 1:07:25

Thank you, Caroline. I appreciate it.

1:07:27

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success. And remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want