Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 0:00

So A lot of people, "What am I doing? Why am I here?" Right? And what I realized was I am not doing what I wanted to be doing. I'm not helping students be successful and find their way and graduate and all this sort of stuff. I-- what I'm doing is spending a lot of my time behind closed doors fighting with my colleagues for, you know, picked-bones resources.

0:24

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Carolyn Sangal. We explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life, and you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves so you can become your own version of authentic success. Dr. Mickey Fitch-Collins is an amazing human, leader, friend, wife, and mom. She's the kind of person who makes you feel comfortable within a minute, helps you move forward on whatever you're working on, and makes you wish you had more time to keep talking. I first met her a few years ago when we were both presenting at a virtual conference, and once I learned more of her story, I had to have her on the show. She's a leadership skills facilitator at LearnIt, host of The LearnIt Lounge podcast, and holds a PhD in leadership in higher education. She got there by being honest with herself about what she actually loved doing and going after it. If you've been wondering whether the work you're doing is the work you're meant to do, this conversation gives you a way to answer that.

Caroline 1:30

Dr. Mickey Fitch-Collins, welcome to Your Next Success. I'm looking forward to this conversation. I'm so excited to be here.

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 1:38

I am thrilled to be here too. This has been a highlight coming up on my calendar for several weeks now, so let's get into it

Caroline 1:44

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's take it all the way back. Help me understand, where were you born? What was life like for the very youngest little Mikki?

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 1:52

Yeah, the little Mickey. Yeah. So I actually grew up in the far south suburbs of Chicago. I have, A Northsider mom and a Southsider dad, right? So insert, You know, hand snaps there. Cubs versus White Soxx, the whole business. and, Older sister just kind of your, your normal suburban life sort of thing. Little Mickey, the things that were important to me was fishing, fishing, and fishing. little bit of baseball card collecting here. I loved school. I'm, I've been a nerd for life. The thing that was always really important to me was, Being outside and fishing, that's part of the big part of my story is that when I was 14, 15 years old, I actually was the youngest professional bass fisherman in the United States at the time. Which is one of those things when people... You know, whenever you go to a party or y- you're doing one of those you know, random icebreakers and people are like, "Share something about yourself that most people don't know," and I drop that one, and people are always like, "Okay, hang on a second. Youngest Professional bass fisher. Didn't you grow up in the Chicago area?"

Caroline 2:53

Right. That was go- Yes.

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 2:56

what is a professional bass fisherman? What does that even mean? So I'll tell you.

Caroline 3:01

Please do.

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 3:02

l- I loved fishing, and I got connected, you know, i- in some regards, kind of in those right spaces, meeting some of the right people at the right time. And as a youngster, I, I- I've always loved to talk. I've always been an extroverted person, and I grew up in, in And I had a little retention pond that was behind my house. My parents, I don't know if this is a joke or if this is real, but they said basically, "Once we knew that you weren't gonna, like, Fall in and drown, We let you go out there whenever." And The neighbors would, you know, catch fish and, like, Put fish in there from other places, like stock it and everything. So I was out there catching, you know, bluegills and bullheads and, you know, there was randomly, Some goldfish that were in there and, you know, all sorts of stuff. And I was out there all the time, and so, you know, that's all I ever wanted to do, was fish. Very different, I have an older sister that's four and a half years older than me. I was, you know, very, very different from her in terms of what I was doing. you know, as I got older, I, I, you know, kind of young teen time, That's all I wanted to do. I was watching fishing shows all the time, reading fishing magazines. You know, this is, this is pre-internet times, right? So it's, VCR cassette tapes that, you know, you're ordering and pre-podcast, so it was literally, The, the little cassette tapes of you know, people talking about fishing. Saturday afternoons, turn- tuning into, like, The public television shows where they would have Midwest Outdoors and all of these other things. And I got connected to some of the right people at the right time, and these folks realized, okay, not only does this have passion for fishing, she can also talk pretty intelligently about it. And so I started doing seminars and kids camps, Through the local parks and rec, Where I was. Because, you know, fishing never has a lot of little kids, and certainly doesn't have young girls, right? This is a sport

Caroline 4:48

Yeah

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 4:48

even, you know, in, in the 2020s doesn't have a lot of representation from girls. And so I started doing these, Kids camps and stuff, and that was really cool. But I wanted to do more than that, and so I was doing radio shows for lots of different radio stations all over the country. I had a syndicated magazine article. I was

Caroline 5:06

Wow

Track 3 5:07

in the Chicago Tribune. All sorts of interesting things, right? very very different from, Your typical teenager. The through line for all of this that I have always loved public speaking and educating. one of my very first public speaking experiences was in a room of several hundred men three four, five times my age, where I was going through a slide carousel, right? So click, click, click this slide carousel, right? Remember those hot and all the

Caroline 5:38

yes,

Track 3 5:39

a slide carousel of photos that I had taken of different lures and different scenes and all this sort of stuff, telling people how to become better fishermen, right? And here I am, right, this, 15-year-old girl in this room of several hundred men who, you know, kinda come in and they're like, "Okay, who's gonna be giving this seminar?" And then it's me, right? And that was one of my very first public speaking experiences. You know, I tell people that all the time 'cause they're like, "How did you get into public speaking?" I'm like, "You jump into the deep end," and I sure didn't know how to swim, but I figured it out. So that's young Mickey.

Caroline 6:09

That's fascinating actually. aside from the retention pond in your neighborhood, where else did you love fishing? What, I mean, it's just a couple hours to drive, but did you go to Little Lake or did you go to Big Lake? Like, where were, where, what was your, your,

Track 3 6:24

there are not, I mean, for folks that have spent any time in Northern Illinois, there are not a ton of lakes. I mean, The obvious one is Lake Michigan, But that's not a, a real, or at least at the time it was not a bass fishing lake. It was very gross and dirty. It's since been cleaned up. But yeah, inland lakes, I would drive an hour and a half to a lake that was west of, Chicago. And, you know, a lot of the times too, I was traveling to other, you know, Bass fishing as a sport, even to this day when you turn on ESPN or Fox Sports or something like that, it's typically a Southern thing. It's a Southern, middle-aged, white male sport. yeah, so I was traveling. I, I got to go to all sorts of, you know, places in, in North Carolina and, Alabama and Texas and all sorts of different places, To, Assist with these tournaments, to speak at them. In the winter months, what I was doing was all of the expo shows that happen. So, you know, this is how you entertain fishermen during the winter months

Caroline 7:21

Yeah

Track 3 7:22

ice fishermen, right? Is they have the big expos, and there's always speakers and seminars and stuff. And so I was doing that stuff all the time as well.

Caroline 7:28

What did your parents do for work?

Track 3 7:30

My mom was a stay-at-home mom, which, I, you know, is the hardest job in the world, and I know that because, My wife does that part-time. So my mom was a stay-at-home, and my dad worked in the steel industry in the Chicago area.

Caroline 7:42

Who introduced you to fishing?

Track 3 7:44

My parents. Yeah, my dad. yeah,

Caroline 7:46

a

Track 3 7:46

I don't even remember. I mean, it's, I think it's probably you know, before cognitive memory sort of... I mean, some of my very earliest memories that I can pull together are images of being out at that pond. And, And it was always my dad and I that went fishing. My sister, you know, w- she would go fishing with us occasionally. My mom is not a water person, so she wasn't doing that. But, Yeah, it was my dad. And then I was lucky too, the, The folks that moved in, Next door to us when I was, I don't know, maybe I was eight or nine years old or something like that. The, the husbands that, The couple that lived there, He was big into fishing, and so we would go fishing with him occasionally as well.

Caroline 8:25

That's awesome, and when did you learn to swim?

Track 3 8:27

When did I learn to swim? Actually I'm a horrible swimmer. my parents kind of gave up on teaching me how to swim and they parsed that task out to my grandmother, and so it, I was a late swimmer, so it was, uh, You know, the, the, whole idea of Once we knew that you weren't gonna drown, I think they actually let me out by the pond before I was actually able to swim. So,

Caroline 8:45

did you wear a life jacket standing there in case the big one came or not in the little retention pond?

Track 3 8:51

I sure hope so. You know, a- and again, I don't know what's, What's real and what's just jokes, but my parents, I always joke about, Having a rope that they tied to the fence, so so there was a fence, and then about, you know, 30 feet of land, and then the pond. So they joke about tying a rope to me. I don't know if

Caroline 9:08

It might not be a joke. It might, they might have

Track 3 9:11

a

Caroline 9:11

wanted to reel you in.

Track 3 9:12

could get just close enough, but you can't fall in. Yeah, who knows? Yeah. Things were different

Caroline 9:17

Things were different then. Okay, so inside school, you also loved school. Were there any particular subjects that were more fascinating than the others?

Track 3 9:27

Oh gosh. I have always been, I as, as, long as I can remember, a very avid reader, and so I've always, Loved, I was introduced to the term information maven, I think came from Malcolm Gladwell, The Tipping Point when he wrote that. But I've always been an information maven, like just as much as I can read. You know, again, I'm of the the age and the ilk of the Pizza Hut Book It program.

Caroline 9:49

Loved the Book It program and the thi- and, and our Pizza Hut was like a, a good 35 minutes away. There was, yeah, it was like a one-stoplight little town. So it's like to go to Pizza Hut was a big deal. Hook me up with the mag- and so for those of who don't know, there, at, at one period of time with the Book It program, it was a huge magnet, probably like a three or four-inch diameter button that had space for five or six stars that you could get when you read and got your free personal pan pizza at that time for reading a book, you know? But

Track 3 10:21

books.

Caroline 10:22

yeah

Track 3 10:23

Yeah, so I was, I was always reading, so I loved, you know, my, my English classes or literature reading classes. And I've always loved history too. my, dad worked, I mean, he, he was away from, you know, like 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM sort of thing, and my mom was, I consider myself very lucky because my mom was there, you know? She, she got us on the bus in the morning, and she was right there when we got home in the afternoon, and I have a lot of distinct memories of learning history. you know, they always want you to memorize certain dates and things that happened, of my mom and I making up these, Funny mnemonic devices and little sing-song things to, Remember history pieces. But I've always been, Really into studying history. The science classes, you know, you'd think with the love for fishing, and and I was always very interested in it, But it just didn't really stick with me.

Caroline 11:13

Oh, interest-

Track 3 11:14

what, when I went to college, I went as a declared fisheries biology major, Because I was like, "This is gonna work great for this professional fishing stuff," right? You know, I'm gonna become a fisheries biologist and be a professional fisherman. This is fantastic. And then one weekend, I, I changed my major,

Caroline 11:29

Ah.

Track 3 11:30

yeah.

Caroline 11:30

how, how did you even think about going to college? Was that even a q- was that a question? Was it just like you will or you're going to or

Track 3 11:37

yeah, yeah. So education has, Again, I, I consider myself, Very fortunate and and a privileged person. Education has always been incredibly important, In my nuclear family of my sister and my parents, As well as with my extended family. my, Mom, Did not finish college. She, Still is is m- I think it's nine, six or nine credits off from her bachelor's degree. And, And that was always communicated to us of, of, you know, y- it wasn't a choice. It was a you're going to college, And now we're going to choose sort of thing. You're gonna become, you know, professionals and and all this. And, I honestly, until I went to college, I didn't realize that that wasn't just the next step. to me it was You know, I mean, you, you only know what you know, right? And everybody that I grew up with and kind of went through high school, I moved when I was in the middle of high school. I moved from, The Chicago suburbs to the Milwaukee suburbs, so I went from a massive high school, I would have had a graduating class of almost 1,200 people, to I went to a high school in the north suburbs of Milwaukee, and I graduated with, I think, 200 people

Caroline 12:41

Oh, that's awesome.

Track 3 12:42

since they were in kindergarten.

Caroline 12:44

Oh, that's a hard... Yeah. It's awesome and that's a hard th- yeah, yeah. We've...

Track 3 12:48

16 when I did

Caroline 12:50

Oh,

Track 3 12:50

phew.

Caroline 12:51

yeah.

Track 3 12:51

But

Caroline 12:52

what was the reason for moving?

Track 3 12:54

My dad got a new job. and even though Chicago and Milwaukee are two cities that, I mean, e- well, these days are pretty much connected with one another based on suburbs and stuff, it felt like it was a world away because everything that I'd known, right, I was moving away from that, and I had just learned how to drive, but my parents made it very clear of, "You will not be driving that, you know, between Milwaukee and Chicago, no way. So it was a big transition and and coming into, A much less diverse environment and, And again, I was the new kid. I was the first new kid three years at

Caroline 13:29

Oh, wow

Track 3 13:30

school. And literally, and I, I mean, I think about this, Now I, I have, My daughter, Started kindergarten this year. I have... So I have a five, almost six-year-old and a three-year-old, and I think about this 'cause we- where we live now in northern Wisconsin, we're in a very rural environment here. And I think, okay, these kids that my daughter started 4K with, well, she actually was in in 3K, like preschool at a daycare here. These are gonna be the kids that she marches through school with, you know, and, This is the experience. But yeah, when I moved, I was the new kid, and, you know, my, my friends that I acquired, they're like, "Oh yeah, We all went to daycare together and preschool and kindergarten." I'm like, "What?" Every year at high school it was like, "Who are you?" We had three different campuses for my high school. We bused in between campuses, you know, during the school day

Caroline 14:19

Now, when you were traveling all over the country 18, did you go by yourself? Who'd you go with? Like, how did that work? Yeah.

Track 3 14:26

Yeah, my dad was always with me.

Caroline 14:27

Oh, that's awesome. So his job allowed for that flexibility then

Track 3 14:32

Yes. yeah. yeah. So he was, he was in a senior leadership position, The company that he, Worked with. And yeah, so he always traveled with me because I was a minor. Yeah, my parents always needed to sign off on, you know, contracts and, and all of those sort of things. So it was very much, A family affair, you know, My, my professional fishing stuff, for sure

Caroline 14:51

That's awesome. Okay, so where did you choose to go to college then, thinking you were gonna do the, the fisheries major? Yeah

Track 3 14:57

Yes. Yes. So thinking, I, I always knew, Even when I lived in Illinois, that I wanted to go to school in Wisconsin. We had, as a kid, gone on vacation, In Wisconsin a couple of times, and we did day trips from the Chicago area, Ironically to the town that we moved to um,

Caroline 15:14

Yeah

Track 3 15:14

moved there. So that was very weird to like, move to the town that we would, you know, do these, Random, you know, day trips. Went to University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point. And Stevens Point is known in the University of Wisconsin system and and across the country as a pretty premier natural resources, University. And it was between that and a private school, And my sister had gone to a private college, and so my parents said, "You're going to a public university." yeah, so I went to, uh, UW-Stevens Point and, and it was incredible. It was, and continues to be, An absolutely life-changing, Experience for me. And my sister-in-law actually, Works at the university now, and, you know, so I still have, A lot of connections to the university.

Caroline 15:58

From your youngest vantage point, what did you think it was to be a successful adult? What did you think success was going to be?

Track 3 16:05

Oh That is a tremendous question I'm not sure Yeah, I don't know if I ever thought about that.

Caroline 16:11

Okay. Well that's ca- that's cool, right?

Track 3 16:14

Yeah, I,

Caroline 16:14

yeah,

Track 3 16:15

I've

Caroline 16:15

Did you... I was like, "I wanna have a white picket fence and a big house and a this" and I don't know. But like, I just, okay. Okay

Track 3 16:22

the other intersection with all of this was, as a very young kid, I always felt like something was a little bit different about me. What I realized when I was a teenager was, oh, you're gay. That's what's a little bit different about you. But I never had, I- in that sense, I never had those like, "I can't wait to Marry the man of my dreams, and yeah, white picket fence and all." I like never had those thoughts. I also didn't have the thoughts of I can't wait to marry the woman of my dreams," because that was I mean, number one, I was not aware of, you know, being gay, and also there was, you know, marrying the woman of your dreams, like that was not a thing. People, you know, that was illegal. don't know that I ever really had a definition of success. I mean, I always was thinking about, I mean, school was always the thing that I needed to do to, to be focused on and s- be successful in. But I don't think as a youngster... I mean, you know, as a youngster I was always like, you know, like everybody "Oh, I'm gonna be a veterinarian," or, "I'm gonna be a," whatever, right? You know I mean? I had those thoughts.

Caroline 17:20

You think you wanted to be a veterinarian?

Track 3 17:22

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I th- like a lot of kids, cause I grew up with a ton of cats and dogs and s- you know, all this sort of stuff, and so it was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be a veterinarian." And then, you know, once your dog dies or your cat dies, you're like, "No, I don't wanna

Caroline 17:35

Exactly.

Track 3 17:35

you know? I don't know that I really had a definition of like, this is what success looks like, or this is where I wanna live, or this is... I think it was always just like, just go to school and, and do well in school, and I just wanna go fishing. I

Caroline 17:49

Yeah

Track 3 17:49

kind of pretty, I don't wanna say simple-minded, because there's always been a lot of trains going in and out of the station in my head. But I think I was very singularly focused or like few focused, right? Like school, fishing, reading.

Caroline 18:05

it also sounded like when opportunities kind of came up, you embraced them and you're like, "Yeah, sure. Okay. Oh, why not? Oh, that that sounds good. I like this. This seems like an extension of that,

Track 3 18:15

Yeah.

Caroline 18:15

Yeah

Track 3 18:15

how college was. I went in as a declared fisheries biology major, and about a week in, I realized that I don't think that I have the book knowledge or the, the passion for like, you know, the biology, the chemistry. I had struggled with, you know, chemistry and physics and s- all that sort of stuff in high school. Really struggled with it 'cause I just wasn't interested in it. And, So yeah, a week in, Without talking to my parents, I went over to the advising center with my little punch card and said, "I'm changing my major to psychology, because I like people. I love spending time with people and talking with people, so this is what I'm gonna do." And I had always thought kind of in those, that that, early, the, you know, freshman maybe into sophomore year, yeah, being a therapist, like this would be really cool. And so that's kind of where my head went. At the same time too was the realization that I needed to sunset the fishing stuff because, You know, colleges require your butt to be in the seat, right? They want you to be at class. Again, this is pre, you know, virtual, You know, any online university anything, right? I went to college about two and a half hours away from where my parents lived, and, you know, I was doing my college thing, and it was like I, I can't do both of these things anymore, And I can't give the time to the professional fishing. And it started to feel much more like work than it felt like passion work. so I kinda hung the hat up on that I think when I was about 20, like my sophomore year

Caroline 19:54

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. you lived on campus then?

Track 3 20:29

Indeed I did, yeah. And that's the game changer, so I lived on campus. like many university systems, you know, students that's, Permanent residence is far away, you're required to live on campus. And that, Living on campus, I mean, I can truly say living on campus changed the trajectory of my life. An extrovert, I very quickly, Learned where the boundaries were and just went blazing right past them. And so I discovered, What's the rules and policies of living on campus were like, and I met all of the staff from my hall director to the assistant director of residence life to the director of residence life to the conduct officers and the dean of Dean of

Caroline 21:06

Th-

Track 3 21:06

office.

Caroline 21:06

a story under that. Can we tell a little of that? Like, what does that actually mean? I mean, on one hand, you're setting yourself up for your future

Track 3 21:14

I, mean, I I have, I think in a lot of ways, I think I have that very classic, I grew up in a pretty, Strict behavior household. And so, When I went to college, I just kinda went nuts. it was the first time I had ever drank. It was the first time I ever smoked pot. I never partied or anything, In high school at all, right? Because I was just I never smoked a cigarette, right? Like, I, I never did any of that stuff in high school because I was so afraid of my parents, you know, finding out. And so when I went to college, I just went nuts. and I can laugh about it now, but I mean, it wasn't anything horrible, but it was, you know, 18-year-old college kids that get ahold of alcohol, and I mean, you know, Boone's Farm and ridiculous things. Hooch, if anybody out there is of, The mid-40s age and remembers Hooch, it's basically like alcoholic Sunkist, Yeah, I mean, the first beer I ever drank, a Milwaukee's Best Light, which is like beer-flavored sparkling water, basically. But yeah, I mean, I made a ton of friends, In my residence hall. I didn't have a car. Other people did. And, you know, we I never went to house parties or anything like that, at all. And we did everything in the residence halls, and so we got caught because I, I, do not as a human being have the ability to be quiet. I am a loud voice and a loud person. I laugh loudly. I live life loudly. And, went through the conduct process. So the story with this, right, is I, You know, got, got caught by the student leaders, Violating quiet hours, the alcohol policy, You know, all of these sort of things. You have the conduct process where you meet with your hall director, and you have to do certain things and all this sort of stuff. it was very early in the school year. It was, It was like mid-October, right? So you're about a month and a half into the school year. I was called into my hall director's office again, and I walked in, and there was another person in there. She introduced herself to me, and she said, I am one of the assistant directors of residential living on campus and I oversee all of the student conduct that happens. and she lays down two pieces of paper. and this is the game-changing moment, okay? "The reason why I'm here today is there's two pieces of paper here. One of these is your contract cancellation." Now, in the University of Wisconsin system, you're required to live on campus for your first two years. If you get released from kicked out of the residence halls, you have to go live off campus, but you still need to pay for on-campus living, but you're being let go from the residence halls because you're not abiding by the policies, right? so this is your contract cancellation, and we will need to notify your parents as well because you're gonna be moving. And this will happen this weekend. other piece of paper I have here is a agreement to become your residence hall, your floor governor. There's government, student government systems within the residence halls, and it is clear that you are a leader of the people. And so there's an opportunity for you to join your residence hall government if you wanna do that, and that will allow you to continue to live on campus. But when you do that, you're now going to be in a student leadership position, and you need to abide by the rules and policies because if you don't, this other piece of paper is not going to be an option to you. This will happen. So which one do you wanna do? Well, yeah, this floor president thing, absolutely." right? Because again, I'm, like, afraid of my parents' reaction. Oh my God, They're gonna find out I did all this stuff and, you know, whatever. so I became a floor governor, got involved in all that sort of stuff, and I got involved in student government association with different leadership organizations. I I just blossomed as a student leader, And but still was kind of this, yeah, and literal punk, you know? I mean, I had, I had a, You know, a colored Mohawk and all this sort of stuff, just like a punk rock

Caroline 25:05

That's awesome

Track 3 25:06

'90s punk rock kid, right? And just was this punk, but I was also being a student leader and, Helping people feel warm and welcome. And the thing, There's another big story that, that I can go into next, but I wanna just

Caroline 25:19

Yeah,

Track 3 25:19

cause I've

Caroline 25:19

please, I love it all. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm loving I'm loving the whole thing.

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 25:24

Well, so here's the next, The next part of the story, Is 25 years ago. And so 25 years ago, At the beginning of September, I, I am going into my junior year of college, and, That spring I had applied to be a resident assistant in the residence halls. So, you know, there's the

Caroline 25:43

Yep.

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 25:43

government, and then there's the resident assistant. They call them community advisors at Stevens Point. everybody was like, "They're not gonna give you that job, right? You're a bad kid. Like, you misbehavior." Like everybody knows you're, you know, this like punk. you're always kinda... You know, I was out there protesting. I was doing all sorts of crazy stuff all the time. I was always just operating right on the edge of the line, right? And I applied for the job, and I got it. And I got the job, and several of, The professional staff in residential living were like, "Listen," like, we're giving you this job because you have a lot of influence, and you have a lot of connections. You're, y- you know, connected with lots of different groups of students on campus. But this is a big deal. This is an even bigger deal than being a floor president. And so, Let us remind you of, of, behavior and boundaries and all this sort of stuff." And I'm like, "Okay. Yeah, I got it." So we come back early, mid-August or so, and you were doing all this training, you know, and it's all the fun stuff like how to do icebreakers and,

Caroline 26:42

Yeah

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 26:43

okay, Let's plan our programs, and we're gonna have... And I had a, I had a co-RA, and, And he was very, very different from me. root beer float parties, and it's Wisconsin, so like, you know, watching the Packers games and, you know, these fun, silly things that we're gonna do and, like bulletin boards on the, on the walls and all this sort of stuff, right? And I'm like, "Yeah, this is fu- like this seems super fun." Like, you're gonna give us money so that we can go get pizzas to, like Gather people up in the lounge to watch Packers games and stu- like, this is awesome," right? Second week on the job is September 11th. Yeah. And, you know, obviously anyone who was alive at that time has a story. But that fundamentally changed what I believe leadership is and connection with other people and creating community because I went from pizza parties and root beer floats to my job is to sit in silence with other people my age while we are watching... We had, I, a- and I tell people this all the time. I I firm- I believe my generation is the last generation of kids that went to college as ROTC, you know, on the ROTC scholarship thing, that got mobilized into National Guard, that got mobilized abroad, And spent the school learning about people who are not coming home, right? And watched many of my classmates be deployed and all of this sort of stuff. It wasn't, it wasn't about pizza parties and root beer floats. It was about figuring out what does this mean, and, Nobody has an answer. And e- especially in those, those early days, it was, "Is this gonna happen again?" And, "Where is it gonna happen?" And all of this sort of stuff. And there's so I mean, there's so much, we, we, could talk an entire hour just about that, but there is so much of that that helped me realize that, A big calling in my life is to just be able to be with other people and figure out how to move through things. And was one of the big moments that then shifted me away from this idea of, "I'm gonna be a psychotherapist," to, "How do I work for colleges and universities?" And that was what my first career was of 20 years, was higher education administration

Caroline 29:14

Wow, that's...

Track 3 29:16

I went to college and I never left, is what I tell people.

Caroline 29:18

that's

Track 3 29:19

it was, the, the conduct stuff and the student leadership stuff, and it was September 11th that changed, and that is what spawned off my first career

Caroline 29:27

And you wanna, and so you wanted to be part of that learning and development from that young, very pivotal transitional age, and being there and understanding, you know, with compassion some of the things, 'cause you'd been through them or you'd seen them, and really being a safe place for people to experience and become their next...

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 29:47

Yeah, I, I, for me, and, and s- you know, I mean, I went from my undergrad directly into my master's program in, Student affairs administration, I counseling and, and s- Student personnel,

Caroline 29:58

Did you stay at...

Track 3 29:59

Mankato.

Caroline 30:00

yeah. Why did you... Yeah.

Track 3 30:01

Minnes- yeah, yeah.

Caroline 30:03

How did that come on the radar?

Track 3 30:04

Because people at Stevens Point had gotten their master's degrees

Caroline 30:07

Okay

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 30:08

from, Mankato, so I was like, "Okay, cool, I'll do that." Yeah, when, when, I went there and I was learning about all of these different theories of student development and stuff, one of them that I learned about was this idea of mattering versus marginality and belonging, and I was like, "This is me. this is, this is what I do. This is, this is why I'm gonna do this," right? Is because I spent a lot of time feeling on the margins and, Feeling like I wasn't belonging, right? And so I was constantly trying to put myself in situations to belong, and I'm like, "This is what I can do, is I can help college students who don't feel like maybe they belong or they have a place or they're pushing the boundaries or whatever to say,

Track 3 30:48

like,

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 30:48

Hey, I've been there, too." And the, the wonderful thing about college is most everybody can find somebody

Caroline 30:55

Okay, so then what happened? So you get your master's degree, and now you're in this you know, student affairs, res life

Track 3 31:02

Yeah.

Caroline 31:03

you know, professional side, and then, and then what?

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 31:06

yeah, I joke, you know, that I went to college and I never left. And, you know, I worked at a variety of different colleges and universities, and I went all the way from kind of the front lines of residential living as, as a hall director, All the way up to my my last position in higher education was a chancellor's staff position, kind of a, a vice president level position. And that was during COVID. And like a lot of people, And I had, I had gotten my PhD,

Track 3 31:30

um,

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 31:30

in the process,

Track 3 31:31

uh,

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 31:31

in higher education, Leadership. Like a lot of folks in student affairs, I was like, "Yep, this is what I'm gonna do. This is-- I'm gonna be a vice president of student affairs," blah, blah, blah. and at the same time COVID came, I, in that, in that one to two-year period, I had finished my PhD. My wife and I had gotten engaged and gotten married. I turned 40, and we had our first child, kind of all within that time, and COVID. So

Track 3 31:55

like

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 31:55

A lot of people, "What am I doing? Why am I here?" Right? And what I realized was I am not doing what I wanted to be doing. I'm not helping students be successful and find their way and graduate and all this sort of stuff. I-- what I'm doing is spending a lot of my time behind closed doors fighting with my colleagues for, you know, picked-bones resources. I was incredibly burnt out. The irony being I wrote a, My dissertation on middle management self-efficacy, and a big part of that was burnout and,

Caroline 32:28

Yeah

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 32:28

all this sort of stuff. I was super burnt out. I was super unhealthy. And I said, I gotta go."

Track 3 32:33

Like,

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 32:33

I went through this big-- I w- I call it a discernment process. I went through this big process of what is it that I like doing? 'Cause I'm like, "What do I do?" Right? This is all I've been doing literally since I was 20, you know, and I'm 40. What do I do? I don't have-- I have two-- two of my three degrees are directly related to working in higher education, and what I realized was anytime that I've been able to train or teach or speak or anything like that, I've loved it. And so somehow landed in the world of corporate learning and development. And I'm in, I am in the best... the, the, work that I do now, I tell people all the time, my job is to help other people get better at their jobs. Literally right after we talk today, I'm gonna jump into, My first of two, Workshops, That I deliver virtually, Today. And it, and I help people build their skills, and I help organizations kind of upskill people with all the human skills and the AI skills that people need to be successful in their work.

Caroline 33:28

How did you even find that?

Track 3 33:30

Yeah. So, The company that I work for is called LearnIt, and I mean, this this is a funny thing. I mean, this, everything about this sounds like I'm a bit of a spaz, but I'm not. But

Mickey Fitch-Collins, PhD 33:39

I found this job description, and I remember emailing it to my wife, and I was like, this was right at the leading edge of when, Fake jobs started being posted on LinkedIn and stuff. And I emailed this to my wife, and I was like, "This does not seem real, but I'm gonna apply for it anyway," right? 'Cause I, Read this job description. I'm like, okay, the, the job is to lead workshops on professional development skill stuff. the job, virtually and in person. I'm like, that sounds awesome because, I am one of those weirdos, like the 1% people that's like, "Put me in front of

Caroline 34:14

800 people. I love it." so I applied for the job. The next day I get an email saying, "Hey, would you have like, an opportunity to talk today?" And I'm like, "Sure." So I have a phone call, and I have a phone call who, with the woman who ended up being my supervisor, and she's like, "This is awesome. I want you to meet our CEO." The next day I meet with the CEO. He and I end up talking about World War II and our favorite books and history and podcasts and all this sort of stuff. Not really a job interview, but it was. And then two days later, I, I, got a call. I was at my father-in-law's house, and I got a call, You know, standing out on the driveway and got a call From the man who is now my boss, Offering me the job

Track 3 34:51

to, Come be, a- at the time we called a professional development instructor at LearnIt. Um, And I just celebrated my fifth anniversary, and it's, it's, amazing. I I love the work that I do because met literally tens of thousands of people across the entire world that I wouldn't have otherwise had an opportunity to meet, literally of the people that are coming to these workshops are there because they genuinely wanna build their skills. They're not being voluntold or

Caroline 35:17

Yeah

Track 3 35:17

there. And, and I think especially over the last three years, people are recognizing building our human skills while we're building AI skills is never more important than it is now. And, It's fantastic

Caroline 35:30

Oh my gosh, that's so fascinating. Okay, and you get to work remotely?

Track 3 35:34

Mm-hmm.

Caroline 35:35

the dream. You get to do what you like from where you want, And impact and help people all, all at the same time

Track 3 35:43

Yeah. And I do, the, the most rejuvenating is I do get to travel to different, Companies and do onsite in-person work. The company that I work for is based in San Francisco. I'm in Wisconsin. Just last month I was in Ohio, I was in New York City. You know, I've been all sorts of, Places, To, and and it's so fun to be able to do some of the in-person stuff, and a lot of organizations are really reaching for the in-person stuff again

Caroline 36:08

So that's so cool. Okay, so from this vantage point, what do you think it means to be successful, but not just successful, but authentically successful to where you're using all of your gifts and talents? What does that mean for you?

Track 3 36:25

Uh, Being the best present mom I can be. it's funny that you ask that 'cause now there is no question of the definition of that success for me now. Yeah, I, I came to motherhood later in life. I was 39 when, We had our first child, and 42, When we had our second. And everything, I feel, again, I feel both lucky and privileged and fortunate that, My wife and I have built, very intentionally built a life, To be living where we're living. We actually live where my wife grew up, In the house that she grew up in,

Caroline 36:59

Oh, wow

Track 3 37:00

In in the woods. You know, we're surrounded by deer and turkeys and lakes and fish and, Raising our beautiful children. And we both work remotely. And so that allows us to be, Incredibly present for our kids. There's, you know, not the commute time.

Caroline 37:16

Yeah

Track 3 37:17

minutes from the school. the definition of success for me is, Certainly having work that feels-- I, I will not do work that's not passionful and meaningful, Ever again in my life. I also don't think that I'm ever gonna work in an office again because I don't want to be held hostage to a, a physical space that says this is where work gets done. Because when I am working remotely, it allows me to be more present in all aspects of my life, Which means I'm just a better human. And right now it's about being able to be as present as I can for my kids and to live, you know, we only have one shot, you know,

Caroline 37:54

That's right

Track 3 37:54

To, to live my life to the best.

Caroline 37:57

That's awesome. How do people find you? If somebody wanted you to come and help them individually or in, as a, as a team, how does, how does that happen?

Track 3 38:06

Yeah, yeah, the best way, and please please do folks reach out, The best way to find me is on LinkedIn. So just search Mickey Fitch Collins, or you can search Mickey and LearnIt, L-E-A-R-N-I-T. A couple of other, like one other thing that I would offer is besides LearnIt, you know, or besides LinkedIn getting connected to me there, if folks go to learnit.com/mickey, And I spell it just like the mouse, M-I-C-K-E-Y, You'll see a couple of things there. Um, One of them is the podcast that I host, the LearnIt Lounge. The other thing that you're gonna see there too is an offer if folks want to, Yourself and a bunch of your teammates want to, Take some of our workshops to just kind of get a feel for what we do, you can absolutely do that free, no strings attached awesomeness. And yeah, I would love if anybody wants to reach out for, for, you know, if you want, Somebody to come and tell some stories and do some speaking or some coaching or anything like that, that's my jam. That's what I do

Caroline 38:53

I love it. Mikki, thank you so much. I've enjoyed every single second of this conversation, and I'm so happy that we're connected. I look forward for, you know, great things to come. But thank you so much for being on Your Next Success.

Track 3 39:04

Thank you

39:05

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success. And remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want