Sara Skowronski 0:00

so at all of the jobs, I would be there until 8:00, 9:00 at night and, working. I was dedicated. I was doing the work. And then something came to a head where the owner that had bought out the company, he wanted to bring in his group of people, basically so that they could make money off of something that we were already doing. And I said, "You know, that's fine, but I would warn you and he came back with "How dare you. You have no right to tell me this. And I was just shocked and, And I think that was on a Friday, and on Monday they came in and fired me. And while I was scared out of my wits, I was also like, "I'm free." It was this huge weight taken off of me that I felt like I'd been living with for the past year

0:46

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. We explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life, and you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves so you can become your own version of authentic success. If you've been wondering what it would take to bet on yourself, this conversation is for you. Sara Skowronski is a fractional HR partner and certified AI consultant for founder-led companies. For two decades, she was the person every company leaned on, She was hired for HR and soon found herself running IT, finance, and whatever else needed an owner. She worked nights and weekends to keep it all going. Then one interview conversation showed her she was ready to make her own path, and she went all in. She'll tell you how she built a business by telling people what she saw and how she could help, how she was able to enjoy her evenings and what success looks like now that she defines it for herself.

Caroline Sangal 1:52

Sara Skowronski, welcome to Your Next Success.

Sara Skowronski 1:55

I'm excited to be here

Caroline Sangal 1:57

Well, in Next Success style, I would love to learn all about you, your life, and your career, what led you to this point. But let's take it all the way back to the beginning. Can you help us understand where were you born? What was life like for the very youngest little Sara

Sara Skowronski 2:16

I was born in Livermore, California, but I grew... My first five years were in Pleasanton. I am the first Californian in my family. Everybody else came from Illinois. My parents got married in Chicago and, and had my two older sisters there and moved out here, and I was a surprise

Caroline Sangal 2:35

what did your parents do for work that they decided to move from Illinois to California?

Sara Skowronski 2:42

My grandparents moved for work. My grandfather was the general manager of the American Distillery, which had a plant in Pekin, Illinois, which is where my mom grew up, and they opened a plant in Union City. And my, my grandfather came out to open that, be the general manager of that, and he eventually retired doing that. So, so yeah, so my parents actually followed them out. I think my mom said that at some point she took a trip on, Route 66 and went through California, and went through the Bay Area, and was just like, "I, I love this. It doesn't have the snow. It doesn't have the humid, hot summers." And, my dad was all for it.

Caroline Sangal 3:23

Awesome

Sara Skowronski 3:24

They moved the family out here. And then I came along a couple years later.

Caroline Sangal 3:29

And what did they end up doing for work in California then?

Sara Skowronski 3:34

So my dad went to work for American Steel. He was a mechanical drafter. He came out... I always remember him telling the story, he, he went to a job, 'cause he was a high school graduate, went to a, a trade school. And, he, he told a story about, going to an interview and asking for, a couple dollars or a dollar more per hour than what he was making at his previous job or his current job. The hiring manager said, "Well, I'm sorry, but we can't, we can't offer you that." And he's like, "Oh." You know, and my dad's very, when it comes to, like, speaking up for himself or anything, is very kind of soft-spoken about that. But he was like, "Oh, okay." And, and, and the hiring manager said, "'Cause we don't pay that low. We, we start our people higher." And, and so he, you know, so he got a job and, I always actually envied this about him. He just wanted to go to work and do his job and come home, and then, you know, enjoy his life. My mom was always very ambitious about things, but my dad was just like, I just wanna, you know, go to work, do my job, get paid, and, and come home." And I took after my mom. I just am always looking for the next gold ring and, or brass ring. And, my sister, who actually works with me, takes after my dad, who is, she's just like, I just wanna get a paycheck. I just, just wanna do my job."

Caroline Sangal 5:03

and what did your mom, what was her career? What kind of things was she interested in?

Sara Skowronski 5:08

So she, for the first part of my life while we lived in Pleasanton, she was a stay-at-home mom. And then, when I was five we moved to Oakland, California, because my dad had taken a job with Kaiser Engineers in, working out of Oakland. And, and at that time, she finished her degree. She got her degree in, senior care. and then, eventually she went to work for the Oakland, Cathedral, and was there until she retired. So she was there for, 20-some years, as, initially as their senior care coordinator, and so she worked with all the senior citizens. And then eventually she was sort of like the, I would call it an office manager or an operations manager For the church. everybody knew. My dad used to i- introduce himself as Mr. Barbara Skowronski because everybody knew who Barbara Skowronski was.

Caroline Sangal 6:06

I find it fascinating, where people come from, what they end up doing, and how, some of those parental influences help plant seeds about the work And so even that your dad moving from Illinois to California, trying to advocate for himself and earn a little bit more, to then even back then have the interview person on the other side of the table actually be like, no," but not for the no that was, that I was expecting. More of the no of, "You're actually worth way more than that, and out here we're gonna try to see you as a person and not just do what you think is leveling up. But we're gonna actually bump you up into a pay grade that's very representative of the work and the value that you bring."

Sara Skowronski 6:55

And it's interesting, cause, he told me that story several times. I've thought about it several times. I've told that story several times. And but even as you're saying that now, I'm thinking, you know, I remember taking a job where, I was taking a step up, and I totally undervalued myself, and they didn't say anything. In fact, part of me thinks I got the job because I was so undervalued. Like, I was a great deal basically. And when I got in and actually started seeing what the people in this organization were making, I was like, "Wait a minute. What's, what's going on here?" and and just that difference right now of how, like, we're fighting right now to have to put salary bands or salary rates on job descriptions. And back in that point, they, they had the salary bands. They, they said, "We can't start you at this low of a rate because the lowest we go is this rate," which is, you know, $5 higher than what you were making an hour or something like that.

Caroline Sangal 7:56

Oh, it's so interesting, the person on the other side of the conversation, right? Because even, yeah, when I was doing recruiting, I had conversations with people that, weren't valued for the work that they did. They weren't anywhere near the market rate. And I was kind of thankful that I was the recruiter, the agency recruiter in the middle, right? So I wanted them to be at the level that... And it was absolutely helping them in their career. And of course, yeah, I'm commission-based, so that's gonna help me, too. But it wasn't about me, it was about them, and helping make sure that they're joining and, and asking for and advocating for the salary that, that would help them be part of that team at an, at a nearer equal level. Okay, So you're in California. You never had to deal with the harsh winters of Illinois. You just grow up in California.

Sara Skowronski 8:47

and we, we left Pleasanton early enough that I grew up in, in... I think my mom used to say, and I don't know where she read this, but Oakland had the best weather in the country. Like, it was, It never froze in the winter. It was, like 75. Maybe we got to a hot day of 80 degrees, and we'd all be like, "Oh my God, it's so hot. We don't have air conditioning in the house." And, it was a lovely place to grow up. And I think I just had sort of blinders on of what was probably going on in Oakland at the time. It was a big transitional time, for the city. I do remember there was a lot of time where the downtown area, which is now beautiful and revitalized, and there's all this stuff going on down there, it was just dark. There was, you know, empty storefronts, and not a lot going on. But when I was really young, we would go down there and go shopping, and my mom loved, Liberty House was one of her favorite, stores that we would go to. And it was always fun to go shopping. My mom was a shopaholic, and then we all learned that from her.

Caroline Sangal 9:51

Aside from shopping, what were the other things that you really loved doing that you can recall from the youngest age? Like, outside of school, what, did you like to do?

Sara Skowronski 10:00

I enjoyed, dancing. I took some dance classes, I took the required ballet and, tap dance and really enjoyed that. And, I did some piano. But a lot of it was, I was an introvert. I was a shy kid. I had my friends and would just kind of come home and just, probably watch too much TV. I I was the early, early part the latch key kids and, and would have to come home and, and sort of take care of myself as I was getting older. So my, my next oldest sister is six years older than me. So, you know, by the time we moved out here and I went, started going to school, she was leaving school. Quickly after that. So there wasn't even a, a big period of time where we were in the same, in the same circles. Um, yeah.

Caroline Sangal 10:46

How about school-wise? What kind of caught your attention? What did you enjoy doing versus not doing?

Sara Skowronski 10:54

I did take drafting in school. I thought I was gonna go into engineering and go into, or, or go into drafting and kind of follow my dad. And, and, I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I had a friend, that lived up in Mendocino, which is a seaside town, oceanside town that we would vacation to. And there just happened to be a girl that lived up there that was about my age. And she got into, the dance squad. And so she kind of encouraged me. And so I actually joined the cheerleading squad, which was completely out of character for me, my junior and senior year I was on the cheer squad, and I was, you know, doing, doing that thing and, and being out there and being out in front of people, which was a big, like, very uncomfortable for me.

Caroline Sangal 11:40

Fascinating though that, that, it, and you allowed yourself to, to do it and to show up and learn about it, but yet it seems to be like, yeah, you're kind of a behind the scenes, make it happen, very dedicated, very ambitious for things that you enjoy doing, but yet maybe not so much the, "Hey, hey, look at me," but there, you know, lo and behold, you put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. You were able to, to Well, and, and learn some skills, but yet you can still choose to do not that, you

Sara Skowronski 12:09

And I think part of it was that, you know, this was, like I said, one of the things I always enjoyed doing and I, I, I loved doing when I was younger was dancing. And, and this was sort of the closest to, to dancing that, we could get. I went to a Catholic high school, so, you know, it was kind of the closest that we could get to, to dancing, was to be on the cheerleading team. And, and so that was, you know, it was like, "This is fun. I could, I could do this. I could go out and do my moves and just kind of lose myself in that and then, and, and enjoy it and, and be out in front of people," which I think started kind of helping me to get out of that, that, the fear of being in front of people,

Caroline Sangal 12:48

And also I think maybe part of the dancing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the dancing, if you're on a team dancing with others, yeah, you're in front of people, but there's still, A support system right

Sara Skowronski 12:58

Yes.

Caroline Sangal 12:59

Different than being all by yourself in front of people.

Sara Skowronski 13:02

I wasn't going out doing competition dance on, on doing solos or anything. I was, I was in a, in a team, in a group. We all worked together as a team. So yeah, that was... It was fun

Caroline Sangal 13:14

Then how did you decide that you even wanted to go to college or continue learning beyond what you had to do?

Sara Skowronski 13:24

So my parents had this rule, they had it for both of my sisters, that after you got out of high school, you either went to college or you started paying rent. And so, I was like, "Okay, well, I'll go to college," and, and I did, I did two years at a community college. Again, I, I started in, kind of thinking I was gonna go into engineering and, and thinking I would go down that route. And it, you know, it, taking the level from high school drafting up a level to, to college, I was like, "Ah, I don't know if this is right for me. I don't think this is right." And I was at a, a college called Chabot College, which is, in the Hayward, Bay Area. It was Interdisciplinary Studies of Letters and Science. And, it was on the quarter system, and for four quarters you got pretty much all of your GE done, but you would study one thing at a time. So we would spend, like, two or three weeks studying. we read Darwin, And we studied opera and we would, like, study something for two or three weeks at a time through the 12 weeks, and then, and then by the end of the course you had basically gotten all these credits. And then the fifth quarter we had the option of studying in England, for 10 of the 12 weeks. And that was fascinating 'cause it was, it, it was a group of us. We were all together. We basically went to class three days a week, and then two days a week they had us going out on, like, day trips. So we got to see a whole bunch of England. We went to Stonehenge, we went to a, number of castles and, cathedrals. I remember I came back with so many pictures of cathedrals, and my dad was going through 'em, and he was like, "Why did you take so many pictures of this cathedral?" And I'm like, "Dad, that's, like, 10 different cathedrals."

Caroline Sangal 15:19

Now, had you ever been out of the country before?

Sara Skowronski 15:22

Oh, no, I hadn't. In fact, it, I... Maybe by that point my mom had been out of the country, but, like, my dad never left the country. My... Yeah, so so it was m- the first time I w- I went out, and I loved it. I thought, I thought I was gonna be, like, a world traveler. I thought I was gonna do that, and that didn't happen.

Caroline Sangal 15:42

That's a really cool, fascinating experience. And again, one where you're being part of a team doing some brand new adventure, but yet you have a little bit of, of a support system it's not all you all by yourself.

Sara Skowronski 15:56

Exactly.

Caroline Sangal 15:57

Okay, and so then what happened? And how did you go from there to, to then what?

Sara Skowronski 16:03

So I finished up at Chabot. I transferred to San Francisco State University. And by that point my parents figured... 'Cause both of my older sisters didn't finish college right out of school. My oldest sister ended up going back to college later on in life. But, once they saw, okay, she's gonna go, she's actually gonna go finish her degree, they said they would cover the cost of my housing for a year. So I went and lived in the dorms at San Francisco State, had that experience, and then lived off campus. And it took me three years to finish because, again, I went into it thinking, "Okay, I'm gonna go into business. I'm gonna do accounting." So now I was like, "Okay, we're, we're gonna, I'm gonna be smart about this. I'm gonna go do accounting." And I started taking accounting classes, and I was like, "No, I can't do this." And so they had just started a program in hotel management, so I did that. But what was even more important during that time was I, got an on-campus job, and it was at the Community Involvement Center. And it was a student-run organization that, allowed for students to get credits for volunteering

Caroline Sangal 17:15

Oh, cool

Sara Skowronski 17:16

and so I got a job as the administrative assistant to the executive director. And so I ended up doing that for a year, and then the next year they actually promoted me to program coordinator, which was sort of the highest job in that organization. So I was basically, now I took on a leadership role and that was one of my first leadership roles of managing other people and having to figure that out, Looking back on it, I had a lot to learn. but it was, It was all people my age. We were all kind of learning together. It was very diverse. San Francisco was already diverse, and then you get a group of people who wanna volunteer, and that's, you know, everybody's got their own passion that they wanna volunteer for. And, and the guy who ran it was, he was crazy and weird and amazing and thoughtful and, I learned so much from him. And I remember I was having trouble with something, and I came to him and I said, "I'm feeling guilty about this," and he said, you know, 'cause he... Psychologist. He was like, "You know, guilt is a combination of all the feelings, so let's break this down." And it's like, where can you go to a job anywhere now where it's, your boss is gonna say, "Okay, let's break this down. Let's figure out what's going on," you know? And so it was just a very, a very warm place. I made a lot of lifelong friends there and I was really proud of what we were doing there, so

Caroline Sangal 18:37

But like, yeah, again, here's, here's a person in a leadership position or on the other side of the table that's seeing you, acknowledging that, helping you work through that so that you can come out on the better side. All right. So then as you're nearing towards graduation and you've had these wonderful experiences, how do you choose what to do for a job in the, quote, "real world"? Not that it wasn't real

Sara Skowronski 19:02

I was getting my degree in hotel management, and technically it was hospitality management with an emphasis in hotel management. After my next oldest sister, Susan, graduated from high school, maybe within a couple months after she graduated from high school, her and my oldest sister moved to Yosemite and started working in the park in concessions there. My oldest sister, Julie, ended up coming back to the Bay Area, but Susan stayed, and she, eventually she met somebody, got married, they had babies. And so they were living up near Yosemite. And, and I had to do an internship for my, degree, and so I went and spent the summer before my last year at the hotel she was working at, and just kind of, you know, doing, doing stuff. And then I was like, "Oh, this'll be fun. This'll... You know, I'll get a job up near Susan, and I'll, I'll work up here." And, and so I... That's what I did after I graduated. In fact, I, I, was interviewing for jobs before I graduated. So I took a, like a week, maybe it was during spring break or something, and I came up and I was doing all of the interviewing, I went to a place called The Pines Resort, and I remember I walked in and was in my little business suit 'cause I thought I needed to look all professional, and like, I'm up in the mountains. Now I look back on it and I'm just like, oh my God, I'm so, so ridiculous. But I walked in, and I guess because I walked in and I actually looked professional, the general manager interviewed me, and she's like, "Yeah, you want a job? You can have a job." And then once I started, within about a month they promoted me to front desk manager.

Caroline Sangal 20:41

Wow!

Sara Skowronski 20:41

So she said, "You know, I saw, when you walked in I knew you were serious, and, that you were somebody that I could trust to actually lead."

Caroline Sangal 20:49

Wow. But first impression, right? So here, here, you are. I, I try to think back to my first interviews too, and I'm like... Or even going to my first, trade show. I thought you're a business person, so you had to be wearing, I thought professional women wore high heels, and then I had this, like, hot wool suit, And a blazer for, like, going to a huge expo, right?

Sara Skowronski 21:10

You're standing in heels on concrete floor for the entire day.

Caroline Sangal 21:14

And I am not Never had I ever been that kind of a person. But, and I was literally killing myself. I was uncomfortable in that outfit. But here you, you show up and you're like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna get a job and I have to be professional, and I wanna be in a suit, and, walk in all cute and ready to go, and like I mean business." And the general manager saw that you did mean business, and you got a job.

Sara Skowronski 21:35

I got the job and I got a quick promotion from it, so yeah.

Caroline Sangal 21:39

That's awesome. Then what happened? So they see the value of not just how you look, but what you actually do. and then what?

Sara Skowronski 21:47

I worked there, for almost a year. Not quite a year because winter came and everything shuts down at, like, 6:00 during the winter. There's not a lot of tourists. There's not a lot of stuff going on, and I was 22 years old and I'm like, "What am I doing in the dark?" So I started looking for a way to get back to the Bay Area. I ended up getting a job. A friend of mine helped me get a job with, GTE Wireless, which was now Verizon Wireless. So I completely left the hotel arena and I went, and worked for GTE for a number of years. At that time they were growing. It was right when cell phones were coming out and people, you know, the regular person, the mom would have it, it was becoming... You were getting the smaller... W- wasn't the big brick phones anymore. It was the learning to get handheld phones and the Motorola flip phones and things like that. And, so they were hiring a lot of customer service people, and so I went into a class of customer service people. And I I got placed in the activations department, worked in there for about a year and then moved to another department, and then I kept hearing about, you know, all these people making all this money in sales. So I was like, "Okay, I wanna try and, and go out and, and do the sales." And I hated it. I hated it so much. And, and it was right, I, I always feel like sometimes I would get, I would take these leaps and I would wait just a little bit too long, and so I couldn't... So, like, things were shifting underneath me and, and, and it was, like, there was more competition and the rates were coming down and it was kind of who could, who could get the rates down fast enough. and, and, and so I just had, really struggled with it, and, ended up, taking a new job that went back into hotel management I was doing installation and training of hotel systems. So I was gonna travel around the country And I remember calling my boss at GTE it was a newer boss. he wasn't somebody that I had a lot of respect for and, he was one of those people that always, like, answer and be on speakerphone. I was like, "Can you take me off speakerphone?" And he was like, "No, no, Don, just tell me what's going on." And I was like, "Can you please take me off speakerphone?" And he's like, "No, no, no, just tell me what's-" going on?" I'm like, "Well, I'm giving my resignation." And you hear that shh as he's picking up the phone, right? He's like, "Wait, why? Why are you resigning?" I'm s- said, "Because you're gonna fire me next month. I'm not making my quotas. This isn't working for me." So I left that job, I got on a plane to Phoenix where the company I was going to work for. Had never been to Phoenix. Phoenix is unbearably hot, unbearably hot at 10 o'clock at night, like, "Okay, but it's still gonna get down to, like, 70 at night." No, it was still 110 at night in Phoenix.

Caroline Sangal 24:35

Wow

Sara Skowronski 24:37

And I learned three different computer systems. I learned how to take apart a computer. I learned how to train. That was another big thing, of actually having to get up. I remember after we learned the first computer system and we all had to get up and train on something, and I remember being so nervous about it and so just like, like this is, like how am I gonna do this? And my voice was shaking and I was sweating, but I got through it. And I think ever since then it's just gotten, easier and easier to the point where when I was learning the third program and I had to get up and do the training, I was actually commended on how I kind of commanded the room and was able to pull people's attention back in when they were straying and keep everybody on track. That felt really good to go from being terrified to, "Okay, I know what I'm talking about here and you need to listen to me," so.

Caroline Sangal 25:32

Hmm. That's fascinating. Yeah, and I wonder if the part of the sales component of the job before this was a little bit of that was you not being part of a team together, but now you as an individual having to be out, "Hey, hey, look at me," even though you're not a hey, hey look at me. But then you... Although you look fabulous. But, but then now going into this end where you're learning the systems and having to then be the trainer, it feels a little bit like, "Oh, I'm going from the behind the scenes to in front." But yet you still were able to push through, develop the, that competency, build those skills to where you could be out in front and give the training for something and bring other people along. It's a nature-nurture pull question, right?

Sara Skowronski 26:18

When one of the other things that happened at GTE was that, there was this kind of this horse race of getting to the bottom price faster and, what was better and, what were the options. And when I first started there, I really believed that, you know, we had the best service, we had the best... you know, like I believed in it. And towards the end, I didn't believe in it that much. I'm like when, when they were talking about, you know, when a- somebody would walk up to me and say, "Well, you know, why would I wanna go here versus... or why would I wanna buy this when I can buy it over there for, or get the phone for free or get something?" I was like, "I don't know."

Caroline Sangal 26:53

H- yeah, yeah. You couldn't stand behind the products that you were

Sara Skowronski 26:56

Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 26:57

It wasn't, was no longer, it wasn't aligning with your values to try to pretend like something was greater than it was.

Sara Skowronski 27:03

And that's always, I think that's always been something that has stuck with me. Whereas, you know, I will say, and even when I started, consulting, I have said, you know, "I'm not a salesperson," but I will... I can tell you about something I believe in and I can explain that to you and explain why I believe in it. And I guess that is selling, and not guess, I know that is selling. But I can't sell you, you know, like, I'm not somebody who could sell you a, an igloo in a, in a snowstorm. But I can sell you something that I truly believe that would be beneficial to you

Caroline Sangal 27:40

A- and that's where it shifts into, like, instead of sales as, like, a icky used car salesman to more, like, sales as service. if I know I think it could be helpful or beneficial for you of whatever you're doing, then it is my job to help serve you by helping you see that part, too. That's not icky sales, that's service-based

Sara Skowronski 28:00

And that, Yeah once I started actually learning that, it was a big difference for me.

Caroline 28:06

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Caroline Sangal 28:39

Mm. Okay. and then what?

Sara Skowronski 28:41

And then what? I took that job in 1997, so I had it right as the internet was rolling out, right as the dot-coms were all coming up, and then all of that kind of collapsed. And so I ended up getting laid off, in 2000- 2001. And, That was another job where I started off as just as a trainer, and worked my way up until, when I left, I was actually one of the project managers but again, dot-com happens. I end up leaving there and, Everybody had gotten laid off from their tech jobs, right? And, I went to an organization it was through the, the UC Berkeley system, it was a career counseling center that they had in San Francisco. And so they had like support groups you could go to and talk about job opportunities that you had that were out there and you just kind of get some guidance there, and then they actually had career counselors. I went to one of the career counselors, took all of their little magic tests, and, They gave me a list of things that, I could excel at, and two of them were, law or human resources. At this point I was still unemployed, and so I took some paralegal courses at a junior college and decided that law was not for me. I also had a conversation with somebody who was a lawyer, and said that it took them 10 years to actually find a law job that they liked, and I was already over 30 at that point, so I'm like, "God, I mean, 45, 50 years old before I'm actually happy with my work again. That, that's just a, that doesn't work," you know? And, and so I was, at that point, I was just, "Okay, I'm gonna try and look at HR jobs, but I just need a job." And so I took a, an admin job. I started working for an environmental engineering firm, and the HR assistant resigned, and I applied for the job and got it. I and I moved up from an HR assistant to basically an HR generalist. I was working for somebody I didn't completely respect, and so that was a struggle. But even though I had trouble with her, I did learn a lot from her. And I learned a lot about HR, and I learned a lot about being a generalist. I, was basically doing everything. We had employees in multiple states, so I was already dealing with that. We were, partially self-funded, so I was learning a lot about benefits and We were just getting a new HR system, and so I was working on the implementation of that. And I just had a lot of opportunities to learn a lot of, of things and then I got tired of the friction between me and my manager, and went out and, started applying for jobs. And somebody reached out to me, from, he was from a staffing firm. They were looking for an internal HR person. They had 20-some employees and, 200-some, temp workers out in the field. And he said, after I got the job, part of it was because I'd had that technical background where I had, taken apart computers, and I understood systems and all of that, that was a big selling point, was that I wasn't just HR, I also had all of these other skills in my back

Caroline Sangal 32:08

Yeah

Sara Skowronski 32:09

And, and so with that company, I got to work directly with the owners, entrepreneurs, with female, a woman-owned business. the more I was there, the more they kept giving me. So even though I was the HR manager, they, you know, they would go to Hawaii for, a, a month. They had a house in Hawaii, and they would leave me and and two other people in charge. And, and so I really got a chance to learn how a small business runs and what it takes to do that. And I, I always remember the, the husband of the couple s- saying to me, 'cause I was getting frustrated because he, we had just decided we were gonna put somebody on, on a PIP, on a performance improvement plan, and we were gonna give them a chance, and we're gonna do these things- And then he turned around and was like, "Nope, we gotta fire him." I was like, "You can't just fire him. You can't," you know, and, and he said, "You have to understand, We're a small business. This is what it is to be an entrepreneur. You don't have all that money. If we decide we can't afford it anymore, we can't afford it anymore." You know, and I think that was a big mindset shift for me, around HR, but around just, like, the HR is gonna be different between a big corporation that can afford to pay a severance package and can afford to... has a lot of money behind it that it can make up easily versus a small business that is literally running, month to month, and that the owner is funding it, you know? And, that was very eye-opening to me. And I really appreciate having that opportunity to learn, 'cause I don't think a lot of people do, especially in HR. I don't think a lot of HR people get that opportunity to really understand that.

Caroline Sangal 33:53

So you have this experience of getting to learn and, and understand even more about what the owner of a small business goes through and making HR decisions. You learn a lot from them and, and then, then what?

Sara Skowronski 34:05

I keep getting more

Caroline Sangal 34:07

and then what, and then more things. And then, then what do you decide to do? Where do you decide to go from there?

Sara Skowronski 34:13

Oh, I don't... Sometimes I wonder if I made decisions or if the universe made decisions. I, you know, honestly, I think I make decisions, but I don't... I get stuck in my own fear. And so the universe goes, "Mm-mm," and pushes me out. So, So the owners retired, and the business was bought by, another group that was, and it was a very kind of weird situation. And at the beginning, they kind of left us alone. They were just sort of like, "You guys, you guys just do what you, what you had." They had one person that was sort of in charge of us from their organization. But we were just gonna, you know, kind of do our own thing. And at some point, there was the sales manager who was in charge of all the recruiters, and then there was me, and I was in charge of everything else. At that point, I had already been in charge of IT, because I had that background, and HR, 'cause that's what I was hired for. But then I suddenly was in charge of finance and marketing and facilities and, all of the stuff that I was just figuring it out as I was going along, right? And I was very unhappy. I was, you know, I was getting more and more unhappy. In fact, I remember, the sales manager and I were friends and we would go out to dinner. We're, we're both single women and we both wanted to be dating, and we would go out to dinner after work, after being stressed out all day at work, and we would just... Excuse me, but we would just bitch and moan about our job and how horrible it was and how frustrated we were and all of this. And I remember, like, going home at night going, "No wonder no men want to walk up to us." We're just spewing all of this unhappiness. And, and so I was sort of looking for jobs, but I was also... I'm also very dedicated. So at all of, you know, all of the jobs, I would be there until 8:00, 9:00 at night and, you know, working. I was dedicated. I was doing the work. And then something came to a head where the owner that had bought out the company, he wanted to bring in his group of people, basically so that they could make money off of something that we were already doing. And I said, "You know, that's fine, but I would warn you that, you know, this is... and he came back with your, you know, "How dare you. You have no right to tell me this. You have..." You know. And, and I was just shocked and, and, And I think that was on a Friday, and on Monday they came in and fired me. And while I was scared out of my wits, I was also like, "I'm free." Like, I, I, I'm... It was this huge weight taken off of me that I felt like I'd been living with for the past year of just trying to hold it all together, and, and working really hard and not, not feeling like I was, I was doing what I was happy doing, you know? And so, so, you know, was unemployed for a little while, and then found a job where I was working for a mortgage bank. And now this is 2011, so it's after the 2008 crash. And mortgage banks had all been, you know, their, all the rules had come in place and all this stuff. I came in after that. And, and it was really interesting 'cause I didn't know anything about the mortgage. I didn't know... that's the nice thing about HR, is that you don't really have to know about the industry. You can really kind of... I mean, yes, there are nuances to every industry, but mo- the employment laws are the employment laws.

Caroline Sangal 37:59

Yeah

Sara Skowronski 38:00

I went into this mortgage bank, not understanding the industry at all and not understanding kind of how cutthroat it can be and how, you know, their sales are... These are, like, true salespeople that are out there trying to make these, $500,000, million-dollar sales, basically. Within the first week I was like, "This is, this is gonna be bad. This is bad." But I ended up staying there for four years. The company grew while I was there. We just added a lot more, more banks. And then we had this massive issue while I was on vacation. I had gone on vacation to New York. I remember I was sitting in Serendipity having one of those frozen hot chocolates, and I got a call from my boss, who was one of the owners, and he said, "None of the loan officers got paid today." And, and there's a long story leading up to that. But it was, it was a, an issue with the, the software system that we were using and, and people leaving and, like, all, like, perfect storm kind of things, things going wrong. And, and so that was in October. And, and I remember taking, getting the flight home on Sunday and, you know, every time that I wasn't with my friend who I was out, you know, exploring New York, I was on the phone trying to figure out what was going on. I got off the plane and I went to work. And I feel like I spent the next four months just trying to catch up and clean up and figure out what happened. And, I remember having a screaming match with the software company. I was so mad and so frustrated. And I think in like January when my boss called, and he said, how are you doing?" I said, "I don't know how much longer I can do this." And, at the end of February, they let me go. And they let me go with a nice package. And again, it was one of those, like, this is hard, but I- I'm thankful.

Caroline Sangal 40:10

Yeah

Sara Skowronski 40:11

I, I had moved in September, and then I went on this vacation in October with my house still filled with boxes, and I had been working until 10:00 every night and working on the weekends. And, when they fired me, my house was still full of boxes because I had never been home to had the time to actually unpack anything. And so, I went through the whole process of looking for a new job and, I was weighing. I think the next week, I bought my URL, I, bought my business cards, and I was like, "I'm gonna start consulting." Didn't exactly know what that was gonna look like, but I was gonna start consulting. And I, was also looking for a job at the same time. And I remember I went and got, interviewed by somebody. Basically, it was a great job, great company. Really, you know, I felt good about it. But, the person whose job I was taking was still there. And we were getting to the point in the interview process where I had met with the CEO, and I was about to meet with the board or whoever the next level was. And I remember before leaving talking to her, and I was like, "Well, so why are you leaving? This seems like a great company. Why are you leaving?" And she told me whatever she wanted to do, and she said, "And I realized if I don't do it now, I'm never gonna do it." And I left that meeting, and I realized as I walked back to the BART station, "If I don't do this now, I'm never gonna do it." And I got home, and I emailed her, and I said, "Thank you very much, but I've decided to take my name out of the, out of the running." And I went all in on starting my business.

Caroline Sangal 41:52

This is amazing though because when you show up somewhere, Even from walking in the business suit in the hotel in Yosemite, people see you, you show up a little bit different, and then you start working there. And because of the contributions and the things that you do, every single place had this pattern of then you get to do more and more and more. And then your own personality comes out and your internal values and like, "Whatever I need to do, I'm just gonna buckle down and do it," even when there was friction from some of the people that were your bosses or the people that could have seen you as l- as the guy back in college did. That boss saw you, helped you, through something, and allowed you to become better in the process. But then in some of these other companies, yeah, they would see you and they'd just keep dumping more stuff and e- But even with the friction, your MO was, "I'm gonna work and work and work and work, and whatever it takes, I'm gonna get it done." And yes, you'd have some times where you could go, you know, talk with a, a friend at dinner about how freaking horrible it was, but you would just wake up the next day and do it again,

Sara Skowronski 42:59

And do it again, and do it again until they kicked me out.

Caroline Sangal 43:03

And you still hadn't given up. See, you still hadn't given up on them, but then when they chose... And then even with that, and it's like that feels like horrible. I'm doing all this stuff for you. I'm pointing out a problem. I'm pointing out a potential problem, and instead of seeing... See, that's the thing. It gets twisted to like you're the problem for pointing out the problem

Sara Skowronski 43:22

Yes.

Caroline Sangal 43:24

instead of being like, "Oh, well, let's work through that. Let's get it done." And you're not bringing up the problem to be difficult. You're bringing up like, "Hey, I think you should know," and enough already. And you listen to that one person getting ready to leave that job and thought, "Okay, well, I could take this job, and I could get into a situation

Sara Skowronski 43:42

again and go through it again, or I can make my own path. And so I decided I needed to make my own path. And it was so scary. I don't know what it would have looked like if I hadn't gotten a nice exit package from the last company. So I'm very grateful for that. And it gave me the runway, because it... One of the first people that I talked to, when I started, 'cause I, you know, I started talking to my friends. I was like, "Okay, now how do I do this? How do I actually... Like how do you get business? What do I do?" And one of them told me about networking groups. And so I signed up to go to, the networking group, went to it and started meeting people, and one of the first, business coaches that I met with one-on-one—we had a, a one-on-one coffee date—and he said, "You know, you're doing everything right. Just keep doing it. Keep meeting with, with people one-on-one, at least five a week for the next six months, and you'll start to see results." And six months later, I got a call from somebody I had met six months or three months or something earlier saying, "Hey, are you still doing that HR thing?" And she had a client for me. And I met with the client, and they were a client for, several years. And so it, you know, kind of going back to the whole sales thing of, all I had to do was tell them what I was seeing and how I could help them versus try and sell them on something. Everybody I would talk to about what I wanted to do, which was focusing on those small businesses like that staffing company that I worked for, those small businesses that they have employees, so they need some sort of HR oversight. They don't know how much trouble they can get into. And, but they don't, they don't know what they don't know. And so they're, you know, they're like, "Okay, well, you know, I don't need that. That's just overhead." So it's like, "Well, here, let me do this for you without you having to pay me full time for this." And everybody I would talk to was like, "This is great. This is what people need. This is what small bu- business owners need." So I was able to build my business doing that.

Caroline Sangal 45:53

You now serve as a fractional HR type of a person. 'Cause at first I'm like, "What's fractional HR?" And, one of my friends was like, "That's when you go in and you help with HR on a project-based need for a company that..." And I'm like, "Oh, okay, okay." So you've helped in all sorts of capacities, I

Sara Skowronski 46:11

Yeah, it's funny 'cause when I started, fractional wasn't really the th- the buzzword yet. I, I would portray it as outsourced HR, where... Because, I'm still that generalist. I'm still the one who does everything from the time of hire through termination, and everything in between. I'm the one, I actually will work with the employees, where I know a lot of, consultants will only work with the business owners. we, you know, we do the onboarding for the employees. We do the benefit administration for the employees. At one point I decided to get my, broker license because I was seeing brokers for small businesses not giving the same level of service that I got from brokers in a large business. for health insurance? And I was like, "Well, why not?" You know, it was just sort of like, there's a lot of laws around benefits, and around insurance. And, and they would just be like, "Oh, here, here. Y- here's what you need to do." And there's no, no guidance, no, no anything, and they're collecting a commission every month. And I'm like, well, I'm already doing their work for them. I might as well get the commission too.

Caroline Sangal 47:21

Right,

Sara Skowronski 47:21

so I don't, I mean, it's not something that I sell a lot. But, like, when we're having problems with, you know, one of my clients, I'll be like, "I can, I can just take this over for you, and then we don't have to worry about it." But then I, I can feel like I'm giving them the service that I remember getting in a larger company, where it was really that white glove service that a lot of small brokers don't, don't give. And probably because they don't have time, you know? It's, it's, it's always a time thing, so.

Caroline Sangal 47:47

And so now, with this whole, you know, kind of time thing crunch, and there's only so many hours in a day, and only so many people that you can have working in your small business or helping some of the others that you serve, you've gotten this other passion project that you now do to help people with. Tell a little bit about that.

Sara Skowronski 48:07

Yes. So, so yeah, so like I said, we do everything for and it, again, was overwhelming. I was working till 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at night. I was spending hours doing stuff. And one of the things I got interested in early on was no-code automation, and that helped. That eased some of it. But then last year I went to some trainings on AI, and first my first thought was AI's gonna take over no-code automation, so I need to shift my thought process around that And then I started digging deeper and realized there is such a bridge between HR and AI because the more that businesses are using, the more employees are using AI, the more risk there is. The more gaps there are. what's, what's happening.

Caroline Sangal 49:00

Explain what you mean by that.

Sara Skowronski 49:02

so The first one is, is an employee who's using their own AI to do work, and now they're putting your, your company information, your client information into their AI, their LLM, their Claude, their, their ChatGPT. You don't know if they're paying for that service, so you don't know if that service is learning from your data, your, your processes. So that, that's one area. Then if they're building things like agents or automations or anything like that, and they're doing it on their, their program, their, their account, if they leave the company, who owns that? Who owns that process now? And then also there's the fear, and it's a valid fear in areas like, you know, some of the big companies that are, you know, where, where people are being laid off for AI. And I don't agree with people being laid off for AI. I think that's a shortsighted thing to do. And I don't think it's as big of a fear, it's as big of a risk for small businesses because there has to be human oversight, and small businesses are already working and running so lean and, and trying to do so much that they, You have to have somebody there that's overseeing the robot and making sure that the robot... 'Cause, because if you ask a general question to AI, it's gonna give you a general answer, and that's not going to be the answer that you actually need. And, so there has to be someone there that understands this and understands what the process is. Now, the positive side of that is that it can do all of that so much faster than we as humans can do it. Had my own business, but I was still working until 9:00 or 10:00 at night. I would work on a report because I wanted it to, you know, look really good for my client, and I would work on it until 10:00 at night three nights in a row, and there would still be errors in it because I was, you know, going cross-eyed when I was working on it. I'm able to do that same report in an hour in Claude, and it checks it. And I, send it through and I'm like, "Okay, now go and rip this apart and tell me what's wrong with it." And it does all of the... It does the check for me. It tells me where it doesn't make sense. It tells me where there's a typo and where there's something that doesn't add up right. And I can stop work at 6:00 at night, and I can, I can spend time with my family. And I can... unfortunately, my, my dog passed away two d- two weeks ago, and I was able to stop every- like cut everything off my calendar because I was caught up and wasn't, like, so far behind that I had to deal with that grief and, work on a day. I could just walk away because it was a, it allowed me to catch up. So, so it's, you know, it, it... I think it's something that can be really powerful. I think that anybody who thinks that this is going away is wrong. I think it's, it's here. I think it's right to be, you know, cautious, but I also think it can... it's a wonderful tool that can really help companies. And so now I'm trying to work with companies to help them understand what the risks are and what the possibilities are. How can this save your company time? How can those mundane things or those things that take, you know, three hours to do be done in 15 minutes? And you can go on and build. You know, so somebody was saying, it's not saving us time, it, but it's replacing, you know, it's, the, it's replacing. But it's allowing us to replace it with higher value items, things that the humans should be doing rather than looking for all the typos in a, in a document, so...

Caroline Sangal 52:58

now, I forgot to ask you, from your young vantage point, what did you think it meant for someone to be a successful adult from the very earliest age? We're talking, like, I don't know, high school or earliest college like, what did you, what did you think a successful adult was from that, from that lens?

Sara Skowronski 53:20

I will tell you that my 25th birthday, I was so upset because I thought I should have been married. I should have had kids. I should have a jo- just a job. Like, I knew I was gonna work. I wasn't, never had any intention of being a stay-at-home mom. But I was supposed to have the family. I was supposed to have the, the nuclear family with, with a job that, you know, and doing all of that. That's what I thought success was supposed to be. And that got blown out of the water really fast. Never got married. Never, never had the kids. And, and yeah, now, now, now success is being able to finish work at six o'clock at night.

Caroline Sangal 54:08

So how do you define authentic success for you now?

Sara Skowronski 54:14

I think success for me now is, I, I don't know that it's like one moment. I think it's, it's the ability to, continue to learn and continue to grow and continue to serve people and feel like I'm, I am valued in what I'm doing. And, you know, as, as an introvert, as a shy person, as somebody who has worked hard to pull myself out of the shadows, just allowing myself to feel valued is, is also something that is, that I struggle with. Just being able to accept somebody giving me a compliment and not saying, "Oh, well, you know, it's nothing." It's like, no, they don't know this. Even the stuff with AI, it's like, I do things really easily, and I just think everybody else can do that, and I forget, oh, not everybody can do this.

Caroline Sangal 55:11

Yeah

Sara Skowronski 55:12

And, and so I brush off the things that I have accomplished because I don't think that they're that unique. And, and so I think success for me is, is acknowledging my unique abilities and accepting, accepting compliments and, and accolades graciously

Caroline Sangal 55:33

Sarah, I have loved every second of this conversation. I love the story. Yeah, 'cause I'm seeing, like, you know, in the midst of some of the struggles and the challenges that you had or some of the things you were recognizing about yourself, in the midst of all of that, you were, like, laying out this foundation of learning new systems and tools, training other people on it, working with teams, learning what it's like to be under a team with great leadership and under a team with leadership that's has some opportunities there.

Sara Skowronski 56:04

Yes.

Caroline Sangal 56:04

c- continuing to build yourself and persevere and just really, really buckle down and becoming an expert in your craft of whatever it is, yet on a generalist nature, knowing a lot of things about a lot of things, and helping move, companies and people and teams forward while also recognizing where you needed a break, where you needed to be able to have, time for, for your own self and your own happiness, and putting that as a priority of, like, "I'm, I'm not trying to wait 20 years before I enjoy what I..."

Sara Skowronski 56:34

Right?

Caroline Sangal 56:35

And, and now serving people, going all in, betting on yourself that you could do it, Putting yourself in situations to become known and valued and trusted, and helping so many other businesses with what they do, and making the complex tasks that do come naturally and easily to you become simplified to help others. I love it all.

Sara Skowronski 57:02

you.

Caroline Sangal 57:04

If you ever need a pick-me-up, let me know.

Sara Skowronski 57:06

Okay. come back and watch the, listen to the end of this.

Caroline Sangal 57:09

I mean, I put on my business card one time, is I put, people champion. I think it's still on there. Let's see if it's still there. Yeah. Caroline

Sara Skowronski 57:17

Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 57:18

founder and people champion. Um, but that's just part of, of what I do, is try to see who's in front of me, learn a little bit more about them, remind them how awesome that they are, and just really celebrate that. I'm so glad that you were able to figure those things out and do the work that you do. and I just look forward to, staying in touch and seeing however we can both help and serve each other, in the years to

Sara Skowronski 57:45

I have really enjoyed talking to you, and this has been fun. It's, it's actually, it's been fun 'cause I don't know that I've ever sat down and kind of told that story, my story end to end like that in, you know, little bits and bops here. But, that was interesting for me to reminisce through my life. So thank you.

58:02

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success. And remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want