Kevin 0:00

here I was in my dream job, quote-unquote, dream title really, With all the right intentions, but yet I was forced to give away something I didn't f- understand at the time. And It's kind of like, the universe was trying to get my attention and say, "Look, we applaud your, your... Yeah, but we gotta get your attention. We gotta make you miserable to get you to change."

0:27

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. We explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life, and you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves so you can become your own version of authentic success. have you ever dreamed of a job title, worked years for it, got it, and then felt almost immediately that it was wrong for you? Today's guest had that happen for him. Dr. Kevin Snyder is a top-performing professional speaker who has spoken to audiences totaling more than one million people worldwide. And he's an author and coach driven to put in the hard work to excel in every area of his life and career. He makes quick, genuine connections and is particularly drawn to those who feel lost or not enough, and generously invests his time, effort, energy, and encouragement. He's persistent because he sees the true potential of others and wants them to win, too. When you meet him, you notice his success and his engaging presence. When you listen and get to know him, you learn the set of challenges he's overcome and how those drive his sincere mission to serve and positively impact humanity. Listen in, and you'll soon learn why I wanted you to meet my friend,

Caroline 2:00

Kevin Snyder, welcome to Your Next Success. I'm so grateful to have met you, and super grateful to dig in more to your story. So thank you for being here. And in Next Success style, I wanna take it, like, all the way, way back. Can you help us understand where were you born, and what was life like for the very littlest Kevin?

Kevin 2:29

You wanna go there? All right.

Caroline 2:30

I wanna go there.

Kevin 2:31

I wrote a book called Pure Vulnerability, so buckle up audience, So Rochester, New York. My dad was, in the, Navy, so We were up north of, yeah, New York, and then we moved. He also then wor- started working for the United Way, so then we were in Richmond, Virginia, and we ended up in Durham, North Carolina, which is pretty much where I say I grew up.

Caroline 2:53

how old were you when you came, and did your mom also work outside the home?

Kevin 2:58

She's a teacher.

Caroline 2:59

Wow,

Kevin 3:00

a retired Math teacher, taught math for 30 years. So teaching has always kind of been in my blood. My, my dad also, with United Way, you know, he was a service provider in a, in a sense, if you know anything about the United Way, to the listeners here. But, also then I remember halfway through my college career, he calls me up one day and it was no surprise, but he's like, "I'm going into ministry. I'm quitting my job and I'm going in." He was the executive director for United Way, so it was a, it was a high-profile position. But it was no surprise. I mean, we went to church. I can't tell you how many stomach aches I self-created on Sunday mornings growing up. Like, "Oh, my stomach hurts, I can't go." not, not... I mean, I'm a, I'm a spiritual and religious person and I embrace people. I love people wherever they're at. But yeah, I-- growing up I was like, I don't... Sunday morning I wanna sleep in. Come on, leave me alone

Caroline 3:48

I hear you. Did you have any brothers or sisters?

Kevin 3:51

I'm the middle kid. older brother, younger sister. So middle kid and PK, preacher's kid. Double whammy, right? Double Whammy. No issues. No issues at all.

Caroline 4:05

It's, and, and made you who you are. And,

Kevin 4:08

I embrace it

Caroline 4:08

h- how old were you when you moved to Durham?

Kevin 4:11

Seven. I was in, going into fourth grade.

Caroline 4:15

Okay,

Kevin 4:15

And I remember that because My mom immediately put me in piano lessons, which I to this day hate her for because I was like, my buddies wanted to... 3:00 PM on a Friday is not where you want to be in piano. You want to be outside playing basketball with your buddies. "Oh, I gotta go to piano." And my, now and my buddies asked m- they made fun of me then, now they ask me like, "Oh, that was pretty cool because like you learn how to play piano."

Caroline 4:37

Interesting. Okay, so now you come to Durham. Poor kid has to do piano lessons, on Fridays. what other things were you involved in, and what did you, like, enjoy? Like really, really love? Not that you had to do, but you wanted to do.

Kevin 4:51

yeah, growing up kickball, playing with, my buddies in the neighborhood. I'm, I'm hitting 50 this year. so yeah, Nintendo came out, and that's all we could do. it was the best thing in the world. Like, and my mom and dad let me play. They're like, "Hey, come 6:00. Hey, can you sing Kevin home?" And all we were doing was playing Nintendo.

Caroline 5:11

Yeah.

Kevin 5:11

Or kickball. Or kickball.

Caroline 5:13

having fun and enjoying time with, with others, having a little break before you gotta go back to your own, real world. Okay, so now school-wise, so like were there any subjects that you liked more than others?

Kevin 5:25

girls? Uh, I love how you're taking me to my childhood. We're about to get deep, aren't we?

Caroline 5:31

We're d- we're going deep. We're... There's a,

Kevin 5:33

we'll get deep. We'll

Caroline 5:34

where I, yeah. There, I think something happens here.

Kevin 5:37

Yeah, that song does.

Caroline 5:38

then take me into more of middle school. What started happening then?

Kevin 5:42

so sixth grade I, I kind of felt like I was Mr. Popular in a way. Like, and this will end quickly here. I remember going with girls and, like, I remember these two girls, they were cousins, and I dated both of them in the same week. And, like, all these, like, I was like, everybody seemed to like want I don't know. Maybe it's because of piano. I don't know.

Caroline 6:02

Maybe. Maybe it was your inner vulnerability just waiting to be let out. I don't know

Kevin 6:07

Yeah. And then I just remember going from feeling like, wow, you know, Mr. Popular, girls calling me, buddies, you know, thinking I was cool, playing soccer, basketball, Nintendo. And then I remember, a girl I was dating at the time, and b- by dating I mean going with, like, "Will you go with me?" Like, You know, in

Caroline 6:30

Sit by me at

Kevin 6:30

precursor to dating. Yeah. Well, I walk...

Caroline 6:33

Yeah,

Kevin 6:34

And, and this was kind of the beginning of like a absolute, transformation, which led me to what I'm doing today, is 'cause I remember walking into the school lunchroom and she... I'm not gonna mention her name. I, I delivered... a... I opened up my, my most recent TEDx talk about this 'cause I was like, I struggled with depression when I was 12, and it wasn't just one thing. I'm not blaming anyone or anything, but a series of kinda life events happened, which at 12 years old, you know, I was in seventh grade, and think of the things that are important to a, to a 12-year-old. You know, friends, sports. Do I feel like I fit in somewhere? You know, like some things like that. I walk into the school lunchroom and my best friend, is sitting next to my girlfriend and they're holding hands. And the moment that I'm like. she wants to break up And it was like, What, what, what?" You know, like, and then my soccer buddies are to my right, and they start making fun of me, like laughing. You know? So I stop attending. Number one, I, I run out of the, of the lunchroom, and I remember going to the bathroom and just crying in a stall, being like, I feel confused, embarrassed, like hurt, all these things.

Caroline 7:56

Yeah.

Kevin 7:57

So all the things that are important to me are, like, completely ripped. you know, my best friend, my girlfriend, and, and my sport, soccer. and then I stop going to soccer practice 'cause I'm just embarrassed and confused and hurt and all these things. And coach kicks me off the team So, you know, in a short period of time I lose, I lose pretty much everything. that was kind of the beginning of, will become a depression, to be honest with you.

Caroline 8:28

and how do you even know that that's happening, right? Like, Bad days can happen, but at, at what point did you start realizing that this was not just a couple isolated things, this was a trend, and this was really something that had taken ahold of your joy and your experience?

Kevin 8:46

I don't think I under- looking back, I've actually had... 'Cause it's the essence of my business now when I talk about mental health and especially now with youth. I think my passion, my purpose now is to speak to those 12-year-olds, boys and girls, Like, I didn't understand it back then I'm so thankful that I had two things in my life. Number one was the unconditional love of my mom. Like, only reason I'm even alive today is 'cause of my mom because after those incidences where I lost, like, the belonging, I lost the outlets, I lost... I-- Then I isolated myself. I-- There was n- I, I didn't know who I c- could be around. and I w- that's when my depression first started, and then I stopped eating cause I would looking b- and if, and if anybody here knows anything like, you know, just about eating disorders, it's, it's not about the food, it's about control. And I stopped eating 'cause I was like, that's about the only thing, like, you know. Even the coach made fun of me before he kicked me off the team. He's like, "You got fat. You need to go run." You know, and I'm just like, who says that?

Caroline 9:57

Yeah

Kevin 9:57

Yeah. So at, at that kinda young age, I believed whatever I heard, and long story short, I'll never forget my, when my mom pulled me out of school one day, she had called the principal in advance and said, "Hey, I'm taking to, I'm taking Kevin to the doctor today. he doesn't know I'm coming." I don't think it's gonna go well Is there any chance you can have another teacher or two, assistant principal, just making sure he doesn't run away?

Caroline 10:31

Oh, wow.

Kevin 10:33

So, Fortunately for my mom, she-- I don't remember much, but she shared a, a story where she basically said, "Hey, you didn't run. You actually... Like, I, I walked into that room and I was crying and she was too, and then she took me to the doctor where they diagnosed me with, with a eating disorder.

Caroline 10:54

you even know what a eating disorder was?

Kevin 10:56

No, it, it didn't sound good, right? And I, I rem- and I remember the do- I mean, the doctors... And this was in the '80s, just for perspective. and the doctors talked to my mom as if I was not in the room, but I was, and they said, "We've never treated an adolescent boy with depression." And we only thought eating disorders could happen in girls. So we're in uncharted territory here with Kevin. they gave my mom an option of sending me to a juvenile detention center in Butner, North Carolina, which is a correction facility,

Caroline 11:30

Yeah

Kevin 11:31

emphasize, that is where Bernie Madoff was, who's now died, the Unabomber, who's died, and R. Kelly and my mom looks at them and says, "My son is going through a mental illness. He has not broken the law." But they said, "This is the only place where we have services for him." So my mom refused to let me be admitted to that correctional facility and instead say, "I'll do whatever it takes to get him to the counseling that he needs." And so that was in my darkest moments in seventh grade and going into eighth, where my mom transported me three days a week. I had three sessions a week, and it was an hour-and-a-half drive one way, plus the session. which is why I mentioned, like, I'm so grateful. Like, I'm, I'm-- I'll probably get emotional just thinking of my mom 'cause I just saw my mom yesterday and, like, just I, I know I'm alive because of my mom. Like, that unconditional love, you know, to help me get better

Caroline 12:30

And you were willing to go? Because like in the teenage mind and control and I know everything and, I'm right and nobody has experience, what was it that allowed you to kind of like give in and allow yourself to go and not just sit in those sessions without saying anything?

Kevin 12:50

No, Great question. And, and, you're hitting levels that I normally don't talk about because I didn't talk for like the first six months. I remember staring at the floor, refusing to speak to the counselor. I thought being there was the problem, right? And I'm just like, "I don't wanna be here. I don't wa- I don't wanna talk." Like, but but because of, confidentiality and things like that, like the counselor couldn't really talk to my parents much about specifics, but they, you know, they would have meetings with my mom and my dad and come to find out, yeah, they were... The counselor was telling my mom, he like, "He's just, he's not talking." Like, my mom was like, "Well, what are y'all doing?" we're just sitting in silence." She's like, "I check in with him every few minutes and ask him what he's feeling, what he's thinking, like, and he just stares at the floor." So imagine 55 minutes of that, right? And then finally, when... I'm, and I s- I s- I actually remember the moment. I don't remember, I really don't remember much. It might sound like I do. I don't remember much. 'cause the other two days of the week I was in, you know, getting weighed in at the doctor's office. The doctors actually told me, "If you lose one more ounce, we are gonna have to admit you into a hospital 'cause it's a life or death situation. We're gonna like basically Baker Act you." Like, which means when you're now a harm to yourself, we have to help you 'cause you're not, you're not equipped to do it. so I, I was fearful that, well, if I go into a hospital and I'm not able to go to school, then everybody's gonna know So the fact I was outpatient during my treatments, and, and I don't know how, it was with no medication. There were so many doctors that wanted to like prescribe me, test things out. I mean, back to the, what the doctor said, never treated adolescent boy, never thought boy could have a eating disorder. Like, I'm like a monkey to them in a way, respectfully, and I get why, but it was Just like I... My mom was able, like my mom was like, "You're not, you're not testing out stuff on my kid." Right? so how I got, looking even back now, how I got through it with no antidepressants or no kind of anxiety meds or any- like I was having to deal with it head-on, right? And so I remember like six months in, roughly, just staring like three times a week, no conversation, absolute silent sessions. I just... She's like, "Oh, our time's about up today." And I just went off on her, and I was like, "I don't wanna fucking be here. Like, this su- this is do..." and she's like, That's why we're here." And that was a breakthrough. It w- it w- that moment would become a breakthrough. I'm leaving details out, but like then I started talking a little bit and then that's I think where really I had to reframe food was not the enemy, it was the part of how to get better. It was the solution.

Caroline 15:50

How did you come to that?

Kevin 15:52

I, had ideas of how to take my life. I would lay... I had insomnia. I couldn't go to bed at night. I didn't wanna go to bed at night. I didn't wanna wake up, really probably.

Caroline 16:00

Yeah.

Kevin 16:02

all I could think about was not food, but what food not to eat, How to cleverly still keep my weight but not eat. You know, waking up at 4:00 AM, if I even did go to sleep, still had to do 500 pushups and sit-ups before my mom and dad ever woke up. You know, cause all that was just putting fat on my body if I had to eat. So if I knew I had to eat in front of them, I'm still gonna like do the... So I think a lot of it was just, I, I was so miserable, unhappy, like just everything. But I, I, I f- I think I finally realized that, like, this is not a way... Like, I literally on one session home, I, on a highway, on I-85 Going back from Butner to back home to, to Durham, I opened up the car door and I was preparing to jump out, and my mom slammed on the brakes and she just started crying and she's like, "What can I do?" Like, and I think my mom, I think my mom just seeing the hurt and the confusion in her eyes, I was like something's gotta change. You know, you get to a point like a, even like a relationship, you know, something's gotta change. But everything was like, I didn't understand it. Mental health I still don't understand. All I know about mental health now is you gotta work on it. It's a muscle, and you gotta feed positivity, you gotta weed negativity, you gotta surround yourself in different environments, you gotta find your circadian rhythms, what works well for you. And there's so many things I do now on a daily basis. Like, one of the things I love when my... And, You know, I'm a mo- If a 12-year-old boy diagnosed with depression can grow up to become a professional motivational speaker, anything is possible. So what I love to share with my audiences now is everything I share with you next, in the next 45 minutes, we're not gonna solve all the world's problems. Everything I share with you I still struggle with from time. to time. But I'm gonna share with you the tools that are in my mental toolbox, how, how I, and through the framework of my research, 'cause I, I, I literally, I have a dissertation and a doctorate degree in, in self-efficacy, which is your belief system. Like, everything I've gone through inspired me to do what I'm doing now. And it's not that it's easy. It's like, I can't I can't expect to have fitness or go to the, you know, if I'm not going to the gym. we have to work on it daily, no matter who we are, what we've gone through, so.

Caroline 18:23

Absolutely. And, and I think it's so awesome that you kept, allowing yourself to show up when your mom was trying to help you. even if you didn't wanna be there, n- somehow you still got in the car, and you still allowed yourself to be in a place where somebody could try to help you. See, that's the thing too, is that a lot of times we're trying to control everything and everyone, and we don't ask for help, or we don't admit that there's something that we don't know or that we're struggling with, or to allow another, viewpoint. I think that's one of the beautiful things about your story and becoming who you are and how awesome you are, is that allowing yourself to be in a place where it's like, "You know what? Maybe, maybe I would like some help." And similarly, you give help to so, so many people as well through your keynotes or your books or your coaching or your stuff. It's just, a- allowing yourself to, to get help and give help, and realize we're all on this crazy journey. None of us has it figured out.

Kevin 19:29

Right. Yeah. what would've transformed my life earlier, and it would've supplemented my mom's unconditional love for me, so to the moms and the dads Unconditional love on your child no matter what I, i- it doesn't have to be about food or depression or eating disorders. It could be about their, their gender identity, say that they're just making some bad choices that you don't understand or agree with. Love on them unconditionally. Suicide is the second leading cause of death for people, for youth 15 to 25. So, statistics are living proof of the importance of not just mental health, but unconditional love is the solution. 'Cause where else are kids getting it? it? doesn't mean you have to understand it. Like, I don't understand things, I did. and if parents are gonna be willing to be present for their child, get off your damn phone, be present for your child, ask questions, have structure, have routine, have things that, like, everything that I've gone through and how my mom, my parents and, and just, like, what I've learned and d- discovered, like, and back to how I'm raising my five and a seven-year-old right now, and, like, presence and unconditional love, at least for me, are, like, foundational for them. to supplement my... Nothing could be taken away about, my mom's unconditional love for me, and, and I love you too, Dad, in case you're watching this. My dad was more of a meat and potatoes guy. He didn't really understand why I couldn't eat. He's like, "Why can't you..." You know, like, I get that. I get that. He- that's how he was conditioned, right? Who doesn't love food? Well, food for me was like a shark tank getting-- I was getting pushed in at dinnertime. It was like, "Fuck no." Like, it was crazy. But it wasn't about food. Food was how I framed, those things. But, but but here's my point. At school, and this is what frames my purpose for wanting to speak today to, to youth, is if I had heard at a school assembly A speaker and a stranger coming into the gym or the auditorium or wherever, and whether it was a 20-minute conversation, you know, like a school assembly, another speaker, male or female, to say an adult who had command of a, of a stage and I was forced to be there as a captive audience, right? Didn't wanna be there. Who cared? All right. Well, I don't care. I'm not in math class, so I'll be here in the gym. And share their story, like how I share it with kids now, that would've changed my life. But guess what? I never heard it. If I had heard of somebody else having a story that what I was going through, I would not have felt so alone And that is my purpose now. That is my mission. I'm hitting 50. I, I don't know how much longer I got. To, to do my work, and although I've done mostly corporate motivational speaking and gotten paid fairly well, and I started with collegiate 'cause I worked in colleges, so I, I actually hired speakers. So then I learned the business of speaking by hiring speakers, and I watched some that were great and some not so great, and I was like, "Well, shit, I could do that." and then little, like planting a garden, things began to grow, and I got a coach and the... But I believed in my message. But here's the thing now, I've gone full circle. I started with college, then I branched into corporate when I left my, my college career. I was a dean of students at High Point University. That's a whole nother story. And I go, I... Then I went into corporate 'cause my coach was like, "You n- you need to expand your audiences." And I was like, "I'm not a corporate speaker. Like, I don't have any gray hair." I do now. But like all these things, and then I learned, wow, professionals need this as much as youth.

Caroline 23:10

Yeah.

Kevin 23:11

message of positivity and, and how to inspire others and, and ourselves, but really ourselves. we can't motivate others if we're not motivated. but now here's where I'm at, is in whatever season. I kinda feel like I'm in the final season here. I don't know. but like I wanna go to, to 12-year-olds

Caroline 23:32

Ja

Kevin 23:34

and just be like, talk to the ones that, that, you never know who's in your audience, right? And I know for me it would've changed my life much earlier if I just heard of somebody else sharing their story. And let me say one more thing. As a man, I feel like there's a duty that I have. There's a duty, 'Cause I think as, as men too, we to, when we speak to the other men and, who might be, who are watching this, listening to this, you have a duty to be vulnerable that's, our story is, is I think what can, can change lives, can change generations. I'm lucky to be alive

Caroline 24:16

and that vulnerability is a strength, an endearing and, anyone that's, allowing themselves to be authentic, a little bit vulnerable, and yet wanting to continuously improve or try to be better, or sometimes you just, just even being is enough. That's enough for some days, just being. But allowing somebody else in, that, that of course, you know, has kinda earned a little bit of that respect, and allowing somebody else to see you in that moment, or to receive you in, in a vulnerable moment, like it just helps the world. Like I don't like pretending. I pretended for way too long, that I had it all together, or that s- a lot of external things mattered. And okay, they helped me to get a bit to where I am today, and there's a lot of repair in relationships that I'm doing now because I thought I was working so hard for my family and for my kids. And in that quest of external success, I missed out on sometimes that if I could do it now, I would do it differently. and I can't go back and change any of that. But from this point forward, how can I be authentically me, embrace the little bit of the mess that I am, try to help bring other people's stories to help people see, like, this is Kevin Snyder, this successful, amazing, awesome individual, and it's not been all, you know, roses and rainbows. There's been some, some darker days and things that you've lived through that have helped you connect with and serve others, and I love that, and even questioning your career. So let's get into, okay, so you have this thing in kinda middle school, I got this story, right? Yeah big foundational thing happening for you that at the time is like, what? How is this help, hap- helping? And you work through it. You're still working through, different challenges. But how did you move from that to like into high school to even think like, "Yeah, you know what I wanna do is I wanna go to college"? also a quick rewind before we get to the how did you even decide what to try to study in college, and but before that, like from your youngest self years, what did you think it meant to be a successful adult? Let's tackle that one first. What did you think it was for someone who was a successful adult?

Kevin 26:47

Don't think I was even mentally there yet to, think about, Yeah, success. I mean, my dad is retired Navy. I remember thinking about flying airplanes and being in the military, and But h- honestly, I also remember growing up just loving the beach and, and the coast and the water.

Caroline 27:04

Yeah.

Kevin 27:05

But I was a marine, I was a marine biology major, because I love the water. I love... And I think part of it too for me was you go to a b- I mean, people take vacations on the beach, and what do you do on the beach? Nothing, Right. You Just sit there, you watch the water. Or if you listen to a fountain.

Caroline 27:22

Or I g- I go in the water and then a fish touches me, and then I'm out. I wanna get in a pool. Like, I wanna be near the... I wanna see the waves. I wanna hear the waves. I wanna feel the ocean breeze. I wanna maybe take a walk, on the beach. I wanna be in the water, and I wanna see what's at my feet

Kevin 27:40

Yes, you're more of a mountain person. All right.

Caroline 27:43

I love water. I love wa- I'm, I'm more of a lake, a lake, lake, versus ocean.

Kevin 27:48

a little life, le- less life-threatening. But, but growing up, we, we'd go to the beach, Cape Hatteras growing up in North Carolina, so Nags Head, Cape Hatteras, the whole outer Banks, beautiful. But I think for me, like, yeah, just I wanted to study marine biology. I wanted to study the environment and how to protect the oceans

Caroline 28:10

Did you wanna be a dolphin trainer at SeaWorld?

Kevin 28:13

I did. I, I prepared, and guess what happened? Guess what happened? Guess what Shamu did a couple years ago. He drowned his own trainer, and then they stopped the Shamu program, and guess what I was, guess what I was applying for that same summer? I was ready to go. I was like, "I wanna be the next Shamu trainer." which at Wilmington, UNC Wilmington, you know, universities are more about academics and teaching. They're like, You know, I don't care. That's why I'm here. but that was my vision growing up was, yeah, I wanted to study marine biology, and actually I applied... And there's kind of a mixed message here, too, but like I applied, I only applied to go to UNC Wilmington. That's the only college I applied for. And my mom was like, "Don't you wanna consider other schools?" You know, and, and, I guess that que- if I'm a parent now, I'm, I'm like, "Why are you putting your all eggs in one basket?" But you're asking it nicely, which is what my mom did. Uh, that was the only college I think I could get, could get into. I didn't have confidence built yet. I, I had survived, But I still carried a massive amount of doubt, imposter Syndrome, and lack of belief in myself going into college. I... All I wanted going into college was for people not to know my past.

Caroline 29:34

wow

Kevin 29:35

Because in high school, I was the kid with the eating problem. I was the kid that had all these mental health issues. even though I got better, I carried that

Caroline 29:44

Yeah

Kevin 29:45

right? So when I went to college, I I may have masked it around, "I wanna go study marine biology." I just wanna get away. And my first year, I'm rooming with a guy who was the smartest smart could be but didn't show up for class, and he partied, and he got, you know, into, fraternity and girls and all this other stuff, which I'm not gonna dig 'cause I got into that a little bit later, too. It was fun. But he didn't have balance, and he ended up getting kicked out of school the first semester. Whereas me, I'm showing up. I remember what I made on the SAT. I remember how hard I had to work to make even decent grades. I sat in the front row, showed up for every class, and my first semester I made a 4.0, not because of my Intellect, not because of my intellect, but because of my work ethic. And I remember my first semester it, it hit me. I was like, Oh, wow, like if you work hard towards something, you could actually accomplish it and maybe I'm not so dumb." And that became a transformation. I still was not very happy in college. I tried to drop out a couple times. I took the withdrawal form to the dean of students office, not even telling my parents. I'm like, "I'm done with this shit. I'm not happy. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter where I'm at, I, I follow wherever I go," And then I remember the dean of students, his name was Dean Terry Curran I I hope his ears are buzzing because I talk about him all the time. He refused to sign my withdrawal form. I already had it filled out. I already had my signature on it. He just refused to sign it. And He's like, "Kevin, you're the type of student that's gonna regret this. Trust me. What can we do? How can we help? me what's going on." And then he would just help me. He would support me. He would listen. He would listen, really is what mostly he did. He would listen with empathy. I got more involved with college. I got involved with... He's, he's like, and this, I know we're kind of getting deep in weeds and stuff, but he basically said, "Hey, normally I don't recommend this to students. Normally Hey, go to class.'"

Caroline 31:48

Yeah. Yeah. yeah

Kevin 31:50

You, he's like, "I'm telling you, 'Hey, go have more fun. Like Do the opposite, because you're going to class. Just have, have more fun. You're in college. Still go to class, but have fun." And I got involved with some campus organizations. I found a fit with a fraternity, and I end up having a transformational experience. I became like Mr. UNCW. My junior year I was named Homecoming King. I was Greek Man of the Year. I was a four, still a 4.0 student nearly, but I was like, I love campus. M- admission, catch this, admissions came to me and said, "Hey, you're the kind of student we want to give campus tours. Would you give campus tour? Can we pay you to give campus tours?" And I'm like, Sure." even though I graduated with a marine biology degree, I knew my senior year I wanted to work at a college campus. I wanted to be a teacher like my mom and my sister and others, and my dad even like, but I wanted to do it at the college level, and that's what inspired me to like wanna work at colleges was because of the experience that I had. And catch this, all I wanted was to be in a position like Dean Terry Curran, so I could help other struggling kids like I was, Who maybe didn't even know they were struggling So that, that's what inspired my student affairs background, and I had empathy. I never once wanted to still share my story or, like, be open and vulnerable about, hey, I, was going through all this stuff. I just... I, I had empathy, and I wanted to help. but I didn't realize until about 20 years later that my number one credibility to help other students would be my vulnerability If that makes

Caroline 33:30

It does. It absolutely does. I mean, there's some people that say, your mess becomes your message, right? But you have to be able to accept that, and own it, and be like, "Yeah, okay, a- and that's part of who I am." That doesn't mean I'm, I am completely that now, but that's part of what made me. That's part of what I went through. That's part of what... And now that going through that yourself, seeing through the other side, allows you to then help. So you think from this lens, "Aha, it's like this guy that didn't sign my withdrawal form, this guy that listened, that's who I wanna help." And now you're kind of in this like, yeah, yeah, I wanna go back to the 12-year-olds too. But like, okay, so in this moment you're thinking, "I am cool. Thanks for that degree. That's awesome, but I really like student affairs. I wanna be kind of involved in higher education." And now you realize you can't be a Shamu trainer, so it's like, then you decide, sign me up for grad school? Or like what happens? Like what happens after you... Well, actually, wait a minute. Where does this, traveling across country, was that after your UNCW degree?

Kevin 34:31

So, so catch this. So the fraternity that I joined, and I'll give a shout-out to Delta Tau Delta Fraternity. However, if I joined a different fraternity, it would've been a different experience. So as I, in my student affairs years, I would always tell parents and students this: "It's not what choice you make, although that is important. It's what you make of your choice."

Caroline 34:51

Hmm

Kevin 34:52

Right? So I joined fr- Delta Tau Delta at UNCW, and if I'd gone to any other university, it would've been at a dif- it would've been a different chapter.

Caroline 35:02

Yeah. Yep

Kevin 35:02

like e- every chapter has its own personality. Every club has its own personality. Every Toastmasters group has its own personality. Insert your community, it has its own personality. And I remember, I got lucky. I joined a good fraternity. They did not haze. They did not, you know, encourage binge drinking. They were the gentlemen on campus. I researched them with sororities. I met these guys in the gym, and they were all wearing letters one day, and I was like, "What the hell is this?" Like, y'all y'all are one of them?" 'Cause I remember my freshman roommate, got the shit hazed out of him. I woke up to him being duct-taped to the bed one

Caroline 35:37

Aw.

Kevin 35:38

And I'm like, "Why would you let people do this to you?" Whatever. I'm not gonna go into that. but I, I, I got lucky. and here's the thing too, like, in our youth, and even as adults, we wanna fit in. Like, it's, it's natural. Why? Yeah, of course we do. So, but am I gonna sacrifice my ethics and my morals to fit in? I'm gonna keep you at arm's distance.

Caroline 35:58

Yep.

Kevin 36:00

With all due respect, but not really." Like, I... Yeah. so it's definitely like going back to, like, your teens and 20s, add in a group setting where there's peer pressure and social belonging desires and all these things, it, it's psychology to say, "I'm gonna do shit that I normally wouldn't do 'cause I wanna fit in." So luckily, I joined a fraternity where I didn't have to do stupid stuff.

Caroline 36:24

Yeah.

Kevin 36:25

my senior year, we had a consultant that came in town from the national fraternity to kinda help us, like every... They spent three days with us, and then meet with all the officers and, like, help us to be more Delta Fraternity and sororities all have that position They're called national traveling consultants. The fraternity consultant came to me during that visit and said, "Hey, I've heard about you. We have this position." It's the position I have. You should think about being a consultant for us 'cause, like, you're, you're pretty stellar. I've heard the fraternity's been good for you, and now you can be good for it." when they approached me to be a consultant, I was in, I was, like, I couldn't believe it. It was like I didn't expect... Like, here I was like anti-fraternity, and now I'm, like, joining one, and now I'm, like, working for. one. And the fraternity would become my, my first rung on the ladder to having a student affairs career. Because as I was going to every single, campus, I would always meet with the Greek Advisor, who oversaw the, the, the fraternity and sorority community. And after, like, the third or fourth visit, they were like, "Oh, where'd you come from? Oh, y- so you met with so-and-so. Oh, where are you going next? Oh, you're gonna meet with so-and-so. Tell him I said hi." And I'm like,

Caroline 37:35

Yeah

Kevin 37:36

Y'all know everybody." "Y'all are like your own part in a little club." And then I realized, like, student affairs was a whole field, like a whole industry in a sense. And I was like, "I wanna do what y'all do." So then I realized, well, if I wanna do what they do, then I need to go get my master's degree in higher ed administration, and then that would end up being what I did a year and a half later. Got my master's at USC, s- University of South Carolina, and my assistantship was in fraternity and sorority life, as well as housing, and I was the advisor for the fraternity quad, which was the worst job I ever had in my life. and but it gave me all the, the cred and all the experience I needed to realize, like, wow, this is actually what I wanna do for a living. Like I, like if I'm gonna be... If I'm-- My vision, everything, my North Star was wanting to be like Dean Terry Curran. So whatever I had to do was focused on that. got my master's, then I worked at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. I was the director of student activities. Then I had a side lateral position, director of orientation. Then I worked for University of Central Florida, got my doctorate. I was academic advisor. And then I'm speaking for High Point University, and I notice on there in my prep, I'm noticing, they, they have a position open for dean of students, and I'm like, "I'm way too young for this position." But the position sounds pretty cool. It's everything I have supervised, and because I got to know them a little bit, they saw me speak. I remember the vice president of student affairs was like, "I would love to work here one day. It's no, no longer High Point College like w- how it was when I grew up. It's like now High Point University. It's amazing what it's transformed to." which is how p- how people know High Point now. It's like High Point was not like that when I was growing up.

Caroline 39:24

Yeah

Kevin 39:25

And she's like, "You should apply." And I'm like, "Don't tease me. Don't tease me." I'm like, "I'm 33 years old. I'm not yet qualified with season and experience to be a dean of students." Well, imposter syndrome. I applied. Two days later I get a phone call interview, and about two weeks later then they're flying me up just to meet with the president, and I got the job. But when I showed up for work one... So I'm gonna fast-forward a little bit. I speak nothing of high praises about High Point. It served its purpose for a season of life. It was like the, it was like the universe and God said, "Kevin, your whole life you've wanted to be a dean of students, All the right, for all the right reasons. But we need to get your attention. We're gonna use you for something greater." When I took that job, I had to give up my speaking, and speaking had become a little side hustle, a little side passion project. I didn't even care if I got paid, but I loved presenting for small groups of students. I never opened up about my own struggles, but I talked about the positive leadership. I didn't talk about the, uh... And it was a student who saw me speak at a conference November 16th in Chicago who shared with me that my story about being on The Price Is Right, which is its own weird story, helped give her a dream of how to get better from, what she was struggling with, depression and some other things. She's like, "Not only that, but like, I had ideas of how I was gonna take my life before I heard your story." And I'm like, You don't even know my story." But I was like, "You and I have way so much more in common than you even know." And that's when I realized speaking was more than speaking. It was actually something... there was so much waiting to be untold. Not that it was about me, but it was about the message, and how, how much of a gift that Kelly was for me. And now K- Kelly, she and I have kept in touch, she was the spark to a new journey for me with speaking, and now she's a high school guidance counselor. But when I... s- But I didn't know, I didn't understand at the time, but fast-forward two or three years, I took that job at High Point and they asked me/demanded that I give up my speaking to take that job. And so when I gave up speaking to take the position- I realized it was more than a side hustle. It was more than a passion project. It was actually my calling. And so in 2012, I left Highpoint to pursue speaking full-time, and that's why I'm a speaker today, was because so many others who I've got to meet who simply said, "Hearing your story got me to change my life. Thank you." And it's like, like I, I put my pants on the same way. I poop. I I burp. Like, I like, behind the scenes, I struggle with imposter syndrome, but I know every day, every time I speak, it's about the message, you know? And, and that's what I'm committed to, so

Caroline 42:23

Now, when you were in that moment where it's like in some respects it's like, "This is what I've worked for. I've worked to be Dean of Students at High Point, and I have it. Okay, that was just a condition. Give up speaking. Okay, no big deal because this is what I wanted. This is what I worked for." And I imagine it had, you know, some nice perks and good money that came, with it. And now take me back to that time of you're starting to question like, "But I don't think this is it. Wait, I don't think this is... How can I have all this success and still not feel fulfilled?" What was that like?

Kevin 42:59

that question shows how good you are doing what you're doing with guests right here, because you caught onto something that I think is the genesis to all this is like, why do we do what we do, and to be aware of it. I didn't understand it. Like, a common theme of my life is I didn't understand it at the time. It's kinda like Steve Jobs, it's an old school commencement address of him presenting at Stanford, but it is so true. It's really hard to connect the dots in the moment.

Caroline 43:27

Yeah

Kevin 43:28

But when we're reflective enough and we're open enough to maybe look back on our past and realize how it's moved us forward then we can see some stars aligning. And I feel like, for me, looking back, I knew in the first week Highpoint was not the best fit for me. I knew because I had to give up my speaking and I felt something was missing. Like why did I have to give up something And, but I did it. And I, I still remember, when they flew me up on a first class ticket just to meet with the president, Nido Qubein, when my final interview, and I remember, you know, praying on my knees and speaking to every universe religion that existed. I was like, "Don't, don't tease me. Don't tease me." Like, this is truly, like... And I didn't even understand how much being a dean would mean to me, right? I knew I wanted to be one, In the interview with Dr. Qubein, he says, "Oh, so I s- see you're a speaker. Like, tell me about your speaking." And I'm like, "That's not why I'm here." I'm like, "Shit." Like, I, I didn't want him to know. about my speaking. Like, I didn't want him to question my intention or, like, anything like that. And he's like, "So where, where, you know, where's your focus?" And I, I specifically remember answering, it, and I was prepared for this question, was, "Dr. Qubein, I'm honored that you'd even take a second to look at my website."

Caroline 44:54

Yeah.

Kevin 44:56

Like, I was like, I've read your books," and, and, and and of course I wasn't trying to be too humble like I was sucking up, but I was like, "Student affairs is my career. Speaking is, is, is my hobby. I f- I found a way to connect and, and I, you know, because I've hired so many speakers, I should have hired you, but you can't af- we can't afford you." you know, so you got, you kind of get my point, And said, "But student affairs is, is my career." And what I learned by taking that position was student affairs was not my career. It would lead me into speaking. and I think I'm, I'm thankful for High Point requiring me to give up my speaking for me to realize that. So what w- what I felt would be, was a loss Would become the ultimate gain. And here's what's interesting too, and this is no disrespect to Highpoint or Nido Qubein. Look, I love Highpoint. I love Dr. Qubein. Thank you, Gail Tuttle. She was my, my vice president, who I reported to. I wouldn't be where I am if it weren't for, for what I experienced in those two years, roughly. I would not be a speaker talking to youth if it weren't for those experiences where I was forced to give up something that would help me realize what I truly missed. And it wasn't just that, but it was also my mom calling me one day on the way to work, early, early morning, which my mom didn't do, and she was crying, and she was telling me that my, sister was diagnosed with, with breast cancer And I realized life's too short And what am I doing, right? so, you know, prior positions I had in student affairs, my supervisors supported my speaking. They encouraged it. here I was in my dream job, quote-unquote, dream title really, With all the right intentions, but yet I was forced to give away something I didn't f- understand at the time. And It's kind of like, the universe was trying to get my attention and say, "Look, we applaud your, your... Yeah, but we gotta get your attention. We gotta make you miserable to get you to change." And that's kind of a talking point in some of my messaging now. It's like, where are you unhappy? Where is change required? Where is growth required? How do you wake up in the morning? How do you go to bed at night? Like like change is not easy. It's difficult. Discomfort exists for a reason. It's called a stretch assignment. We can absolutely change without growth, but we cannot grow without change. So I look back on my experiences at High Point, ironically in, in the position where even, even people that didn't understand my story, when they heard that I left High Point, they're like, are are you okay?" launching into a speaking business, I'll say this, and I'll show up too, is like I, all I knew about speaking back then was speaking. I d- I, I had no business acumen. I did not know what it meant to be a business owner. and thank God I did not, because I would've not ever gone into it. It is so much strategy and time to have a speaking business, all of the audiences see that I'm talking to now is the moment I've got in front of them. They don't see all of the things that went into that opportunity to speak for them, and the years of experience, right? And the mistakes, and I bombed. I have-- And it is no worse feeling to have people stare at you when you're bombing. And then also to then the next presentation have a standing ovation, or to have people waiting in line to chat with you for literally hours to, to help sign a book to their son or their daughter or their spouse or partner. For me, those are the moments, you know. I've learned there's a stagecraft to it, but there's also an intention and purpose behind it. I can't think of doing anything different in my life right now

Caroline 48:59

I love it. And now you've been doing this for, for a while now. And, and you're, as you had said, the, your kind of iterations have been from colleges to corporate. Now you're seeking more of this youth, more of speaking to youth and maybe not chasing the dollar as much as maybe chasing impact even more, it sounds like,

Kevin 49:19

Yeah, for sure. so I'm in a season right now, you know? I got wife permission, thank you, honey. 'cause I'm thinking of, like, my, my son, my daughter. Isla just turned seven, so in my mind she's still six. she just turned seven. Ashton's five, and I'm thinking of the kind of world I want them to live up in. Unconditional love. I truly feel now everything I've gone through has led me to where I am, which is true for all of us, right? That's just a simple truth. But it's what we do with it. And, I think every generation they're gonna be like, "Well, what's happening in the world? Oh." You know, like, there's news clippings we could find of every generation where they're talking about the generations that are coming after them. It's like, "What the world's going to..." All right, all we gotta do now is throw in the word AI or throw in the word whatever, and it's gonna be... Oh, that's actually what, Gen X has said about millennials, or that's what Boomers said about Gen Xers. It's the same shit. so we need to almost embrace how we become better people, right, as better humans. But I feel like, I think for me as a dad, as me as a guy, I do have a duty to, like, share my story and my message. And there's a big part of my life I've not even shared in this conversation with you, too. I do wanna mention it. It might disrupt the kind of flow we've got, but, I mean, when I was 22 years old, I was actually drugged and, and sexually assaulted at a conference. I know that's a lot. I didn't recently open up about it until I had a TEDx opportunity and I finally realized, This part of my story and my journey doesn't really fit into a professional talk, but it fits into a TEDx type message. And when I opened up about it, TEDx actually said, "We're not gonna post this 'cause it's, it's actually too sensitive." And I was like, "That's exactly the reason you should."

Caroline 51:21

Ja,

Kevin 51:22

Like, like there's, there's no other like speech out there like it. I mean, it's a lot in 18 minutes, it's a lot, but it's all about how I've reframed what I've gone through to help other people realize you can't move on from your past, you can only move forward with it.

Caroline 51:41

That's true.

Kevin 51:43

I mean, there's people I've dealt with... I mean, there's a spectrum of, like trauma, and whatever people have gone through is, is there, is relevant for them. You know? It's like I'm not, I'm not trying to say, "Oh, what I went through is more severe or serious than what other people..." No, it doesn't matter. Trauma's trauma. You know? Like, so I, I kinda feel like everything I'm doing now forward is about how to kinda help condition, so that we can actually change the conversation around mental health. Stigmas exist because of silence, which is the number one barrier to why people seek treatment, and just because you are or not diagnosed doesn't mean you still struggle, right? So, like, there's so many... No one, no one is immune. No one's alone. It's like when are we gonna wake up, like, to, to some of the realities that we're facing, And, like, and, and things aren't really getting... I'm not trying to sound doom and gloom, but it's like that's why we need people to speak up. because suicide is the second leading cause of death with our youth. What are we doing, y'all? So as a parent, unconditional love. You don't agree with your child? Behavior is a language. One of my, one of the podcasters I listen to now is John Delony. Love this guy. Can't wait to meet him at some day. John Delony, look him up. He's got e- amazing. He's on YouTube. His, his... That's what he says, "Behavior..." Um, so I'm only sharing his name because I'm, that, I'm stealing that from him. Behavior is a language. So is it a- adults as well. Your behavior, mom and dad, is a language to your children. Your children are absorbing everything from your behavior. So wake up parents, put your fucking phones down. Be present in the morning and at dinner. I know how hard it is. I know

Caroline 53:41

Yeah. And some of that also is confronting our own baggage, In order to be able to be present, you have to understand what thoughts, what things are gonna creep up when you're dealing with a child with a different behavior as they're learning and growing. that might kind of unlock some memories of your own time during that age. And being able to just, stop isolating and be like, "What is the lesson? Or what is the thing to learn, and how can I get help with whatever came up?" Because whatever came up, whatever trauma, whatever thing, it all sucks. Yes, it sucks, and we're not alone. By you bringing up and sharing parts of your story, and, and thank you for, for feeling in a, in a safe place to do that, but your story helps other people realize they're not alone, they're not isolated. It's a different person that was the, you know, the, the instigator, but the overarching story has similar elements, and once people realize this is not something to hide, but part of how we came to be where we are, and now what? And now what? And that's why my podcast is Next Success. I, I believe everybody's already successful because they got to today, period. That's it. And then, and now what? And what would you love to do next? And how would you like to take that and use that to help you design your next chapter or use that to help others and bring them along because of the mess that you went through and the message that you can carry forward? But wait, wait, wait. Wait. I know this is hard. I know this is horrible. I know this is the worst day you could have possibly ever imagined, and you're living it. And come on, let's just hope. Let's dream. Let's look for a brighter tomorrow. Let's look for how we can learn from and learn with each other and allow ourselves to be present and to be helped or helpful and move on to the next Just, just part of it. Okay. What would you say is your definition of authentic success for you in this moment?

Kevin 55:46

Ooh, good question. I would I feel what comes to my mind first is being who we are regardless of where we're at. you know, for me too, like, whether I'm writing a blog or on a podcast like this or presenting in an audience or talking with people in a, you know, book signing or having a beer with a bunch of buddies watching World Cup I'm Kevin. This is who I am, right? as authentic as I've been here, I'm, this is how I am. I don't feel like I need to put on any mask. In fact, if anything, I need to unmask. So I would say authenticity, is very similar to vulnerability, but it's different, and I think there's a purpose and a place for vulnerability, but I think there's always a place for authenticity, especially as men. and especially as humans, right? That's the one thing that AI doesn't have over any of us is that human component.

Caroline 56:52

I love it. How do people find you? How do they work with you? How do they get your books? Like just one. This is just one. Okay,

Kevin 57:01

Product Placement, and, and look, anybody that's ever written a book, you know, I wrote Paid to Speak, only that's the book that you just... I just share that because years ago I was having countless people, it seemed like, asking me for coffee chats, and chicken lunch dinners, and lunches, whatever. And I was like, "Let me write a book to like save me time." "Here's my process. Here's... And then if you read it, then we'll chat, chat. But, Like here's..." So my editor was gracious enough to like help me produce that. so Paid to Speak's a great example. I wrote a book called Think Differently. I've, I've revised it three times. It was the book I wrote for my counselor. One, one of my final counseling sessions, when I was going to college, I remember telling Dr. Carol, she and I were both crying, and I said, "Thank you. I know I'm alive today because of you." And I said, "At some point, I don't know how, I don't know when, but I wanna write a book. I wanna share my story to help other people." 'Cause I know that I'm the only... Like she was the only, in or with the doctors that said, they, they, you know, every- nobody understood kind of what I was going through, which now is a lot more common. And it was because of her help that inspired me to want to help others, right? not that I need a certificate here or whatever, but it was like that, that seed was planted in me. And then going into my first year, English 101, Dr. Lavonne Adams, I wrote a paper on The Price is Right 'cause I was passionate and obsessive about the show, and she's like, "This is the best paper I've ever read." She's like, "You should write more often." I'm like, "Well, give me something fun to write about and I will." And because Dr. Carol told me I was really good at writing, well guess what happened? I believed I was good at writing, 'cause nobody ever told me I was good at writing. Dr., Adams, Dr. Carol, my own story and message, like, that's why I wrote my first book, and it was only for college students. But then I did a rebrand on it in mid 20- 2015, 2016, made it more kind of universal, and then I did a rebrand on it again in 202- It's still my number one selling book, but it's, like the... simple truths are timeless, y'all. Foundations are foundational. So I have other books I've written, but I only talk about Think Differently and Paid to Speak. It's like, hey, this is kind of who I am, and so it's packed with stories, and examples, and, and mistakes, and pitfalls made along the way as well.

Caroline 59:20

Love it. Love it. Thank you for that. And, I know that you have a, presence on LinkedIn as well. Of course, your website will have all of those, links for people. Please do follow up with Kevin Snyder. He's an amazing, awesome person. Thank you, Kevin, so much for joining us on Your Next Success. I'm so grateful for you, for your friendship, and for your story.

Kevin 59:41

Honored. Thank you

59:42

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success. And remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want