Graham 0:00

I just don't feel compelled to, like, gosh, I wish, I wish I was doing a concert this weekend, or I wish I was going to a rehearsal, or I w- I don't know. Like I said, I, I've scratched that itch, and it's just kinda Graham 2.0 now.

Caroline 0:13

things can be great for a chapter. They don't have to be your whole

Graham 0:15

Yep. I mean, people are so amazed by that. They're like, "You don't sing anymore? Like, that was your whole life." I'm like, "It was." I don't know. I'm just focused on having a greater impact doing what I'm doing. It's much better for my family.

0:28

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Carolyn Sangal. We explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life, and you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves so you can become your own version of authentic success.

Caroline intro 0:47

What if some of the random things that you've done in your life and career were actually the whole point? Graham Kuhn is the founder of Focus Films and a nationally sought-after strategic video storytelling expert. He was a wrestler. He also sang. He played piano. He helped people work out because he loved it. He said yes to things that felt right, even when they looked unrelated, and he's built a wildly successful business. Today, we're talking about the skills you pick up when you're just living and enjoying, and the way variety becomes your edge, and what happens when you stop waiting for permission and allow yourself to be who you are and do what you love to do

Caroline 1:38

Graham Kuhn, welcome to Your Next Success. I have been looking forward to this

Graham 1:44

we did the pre-interview a couple of months ago, and I just really vibed with you, and I'm really, really excited to, to just chat with you today.

Caroline 1:52

All right. So let's take it way back to the beginning. Can you help us understand where were you born? What was life like for the, very youngest Graham?

Graham 2:01

Yeah. Actually, this is a huge part of my story that I use in a lot of my marketing, because I think it's really important for people to realize that doesn't matter where you come from, doesn't matter your upbringing, we've all got opportunities to achieve our dreams and our goals. And while that may be, like, all frou-frouy and platitudey, but I really believe it's true. Like, I grew up in a, in a small farming town just outside of Green Bay, Wisconsin. When I was there, it was population 1,040. I remember seeing that on the, on the green sign. Luxemburg. Luxemburg, Wisconsin. Yeah, it was

Caroline 2:34

Wisconsin.

Graham 2:35

Luxemburg, population 1,040. So I grew up there and really that's where I learned the value of hard work, honestly. Like, now when I'm working with construction people and different, you know, blue collar things, I mean, that takes me back to my roots. Like, I grew up working on farms, baling hay, milking cows, driving tractors it's just the way that it was. And also, my, my dad was the high school wrestling coach, and we had a youth wrestling program, and so I started wrestling at four years old, and that's really what everybody did in my town. Like, our wrestling program there is legendary because there's nothing else to do from November to March. So you're either, you're either gonna play basketball or you're gonna wrestle. So started wrestling at four years old, which is a really, really tough sport, um, and then working on farms, and then from the, you know, doing construction and all that blue collar stuff, and just developed this really, a really strong work ethic that now later in life I realize I do have a really strong work ethic. Growing up when I was younger, I'm just like, "Well, that's, that's just how people are," you know? You just, you get up at sunrise and you go out and you work hard all day, and then you come home, and that's just the way it is. From there, it was like fifth grade, I was like, "Hey, I think I..." They were doing, like, you can try out for the band, like you can play an instrument. I'm like, "Oh, that'd be cool to, like, play saxophone like that guy in the, in the Bruce Springsteen Band." And so, like, fifth grade, I was like, "I wanna... I'll start playing saxophone." And I got really into music, and I was still doing baseball and wrestling and all that stuff, but I really liked music. And I played saxophone fifth and sixth grade, and then we added the tuba in seventh grade, 'cause they needed a tuba player in the, in the band. So then I did, um, saxophone and tuba, and I, I loved music. And then I decided to join this drum and bugle corps in the summer, which is like a, marching band, basically, for all intents and purposes. toured around the country at 14 years old playing, playing tuba, and this, it was super cool. And that made me a really, it made me really a great tuba player when I went back to school in eighth grade.

Caroline 4:40

I didn't know that, that they took kids as young as

Graham 4:42

Yeah, I think that was the f- I think it was 13 to 21 was the ages.

Caroline 4:48

Wow

Graham 4:49

so then the director of that German bugle corps was actually the high school music teacher, and choir director, and musical director. So I'm in eighth grade, and he wanted me and my friends to audition for the high school musical because they needed some younger kids to play kids in the musical because the high school kids were gonna be the adults in the show. And so he was like, "You, and, and Jay, and JJ, and Tom, you all need to audition for the thing." I'm, okay, we will, just for fun. I don't, I don't know if I can sing." But then the day of auditions I had a bunch of math homework to do, so I was like, "I'm just gonna stay in homeroom and do my math homework." The auditions were during homeroom, and I was like, "Ah, heck with it." And he sent one of my friends to come and get me. They were like, "He said you need to come and audition." I'm like, "But I got all this homework." And they're like, "He said you gotta come." So I go, I audition, find out, oh, I can match pitch, I can sing. I was 14, my voice hadn't changed yet, so I could sing pretty high, so then I got, like, this solo part in this high school musical singing thing that, dude, what? And, uh, I fell in love with musical theater from there. Like, the first the first performance we had, like, was just like, "Oh my gosh, I love this." And so through high school I was, like, the lead in the musicals. I loved singing and dancing. I loved musical theater, but I also loved football, I loved wrestling, I loved baseball. Like, I was, like, the jock who loved to do musical theater. Thankfully, my parents were super supportive. Even my father, the rough, tough wrestling coach, when he came to that first musical performance, he w- he told the, the choir director, like, "Oh my gosh, thank you. That was amazing." And then he, he never missed a performance after that. He wasn't super thrilled when I came home after the audition, said, "Hey, Dad, I got a part in the high school musical." He's like, "Uh, what?" But he came around, so yeah, just this, this weird dichotomy of, like, this blue collar, hardworking farm boy jock, and then, like, singing and dancing on stage, and Tony in West Side Story. And, like, I loved that, and so I went to college and I majored in opera, and I actually wrestled in college too. So I kept going with that, like, oh, the jock college wrestler, but he's singing the national anthem before the wrestling matches. Like, so such a strange combination.

Caroline 7:17

did you have any siblings?

Graham 7:19

Yeah, I have a sister who's two years younger than me who was not into sports at all. She tried clarinet for one year, didn't like that either. She was much more into, to the partying, hanging out, didn't love school. That was way more her vibe. But yeah, we were just, we were just very different. She was just way more into, like, the social aspect of things, and I actually, I liked school. I had good grades. I was a class president. I loved sports. I loved music. So yeah, we had a great relationship. We were just very, very, very different.

Caroline 7:51

I'm wondering your dad was a high school wrestling coach. Now the farms that you worked on, were they, did you have a farm or you were farmed out to other people's

Graham 8:01

So my grandparents on my mom's side, my mom's parents had a farm. So especially in the summer, we were there every week. Me and my sister waking up and going out, working in the field, working on the farm, in the, in the barn and things like that. And as I got older um, yeah, then I got farmed out to other farms where there was a farm across the street, and we'd go and bale hay with, with them or, like, go pick stones out of the field.

Caroline 8:27

And was it just the nice thing to do, or did those farms, like, that weren't your farm, family related farms, did they pay you or was

Graham 8:35

those paid. So that's kind of, that was kind of always your first job as a young kid up there, was like baling hay or picking stones, where picking stones is awful. Basically, you have a tractor and a flatbed behind it, and They just go through the field before they plant the hay, and everybody walks behind the flatbed. you know, there's eight, 10 people, and you just pick up the stones from the field and you put them in the flatbed, and you're trying to get all the stones out of the field before you have the hay. I mean, believe it or not, in Wisconsin in July, it's, you know, 90 degrees, humid, and you're just working hard. You're just walking behind this flatbed finding a stone, pick it up. Oh my gosh, it's the worst thing ever. But that's most people's first job up there when they're 10, 11, 12, and then they, you know, they make a couple bucks doing, doing that. And then my... So both of my parents grew up on farms, and they both decided, "Once I'm done with this, I am getting off a f- I am not gonna own a farm. This was a horrible, horrible life experience." So they, they both went to rival high schools and they met in high school. My dad went off to college. When he came back from college, they got married. They moved to little Luxembourg, got off the farm and all that, but they vowed to like never be farmers again. So yeah, I did not grow up on a farm, but I worked on a lot of farms, and I was at my grandparents' like every week in the summer.

Caroline 9:55

What about your mom? Did she, was she like the homemaker? Did she also help on the farm? Did she. What what was her,

Graham 10:02

she, she was a stay-at-home mom I think until I was maybe s- seven or eight. then she went back to work, but she stayed home for that first seven years to raise us, and then she went back to work, uh, three miles away from home. She was a, like, an admin assistant at, a, an accounting firm, and then it was, uh, the local cable company. She worked there for, for a long time. And then when I went to college, because I decided to go a, to a expensive, private liberal arts college to study opera, she went and took a second job at the local country club, like washing dishes and she loved it. She ended up doing that for like the next 30 years. She just stopped doing it a couple years ago, I've been out of colle- yeah, I've been out of college for 30 years. So yeah, she, she's just a hard worker. My sister too, she's got like three jobs. That's just, I don't know, just how, how we were raised. My dad used to... He was a gym teacher. He was a wrestling coach. He took care of all the, all the lawns in the school district in the summertime. He was a referee for football. He was a referee for for wrestling. Now still he gets paid to go do a snowblower in like parking lots for businesses. Like, every hour you could fill with, with a job you did. Like you just worked really hard.

Caroline 11:16

what did you think or do you recall having a conscious thought of this is what it's like to be a successful adult?

Graham 11:23

I don't know because I just had different, I just had a different vision for myself. Like I dreamed of going to Broadway, which is like nobody from my town does that. But I don't, I just I was bitten by that theater bug, and from being in the high school musicals and just getting really into like Phantom of the Opera and Les Mis and like going to shows in Chicago and things, I'm like, "Oh my God, I love this." So my dream was to go to Broadway, whereas everybody else I knew from school was like, "Oh, I'm gonna go to college and be an engineer. I'm gonna go to, to to college and be a doctor or an attorney." And so I don't know that I equated having three jobs with success. I equated working your ass off to success. I didn't think things would be handed to me. I mean, I definitely learned that from a work ethic perspective that money just doesn't fall on you or people don't just call you and be like, "Here's a bunch of money," or, "Here's..." It's just, it doesn't happen like that. So I think I understood that working hard and making an effort you would be rewarded, but I don't think that to me I equated that to you gotta have three different jobs to survive because I was dreaming of how do I make a living doing theater? How do I make a living being a singer? That's what I wanted to do. But thankfully I had that like no quit attitude and, you know, y- you know, you're gonna get a lot of nos and just keep pushing through and don't quit and don't give up, some parts of that I did take that as, as success, so you gotta work hard to have success. But I don't think I took it as you gotta have multiple jobs. don't get me wrong I Yeah, from gosh when I started working until only maybe 10 years ago I was, you know, I was having a day job and then I'd do like a side hustle or I'm DJing weddings or I'm making videos on the weekend or I was like, when I first moved to Atlanta I had like a, like a landscaping business. I was like cutting lawns and stuff on the weekends while working at Kimberly-Clark during the week. So, I don't know if that was like this is how you're successful. It was just like I gotta make money, dude. And so I'd rather be cutting lawns and making some money than, than sitting on my butt watching football.

Caroline 13:30

Now also, it's, it's just kinda interesting. what did you do for fun when you weren't, and not to say that picking stones wasn't fun and, you know, when you found theater and those things, but on your off time when you didn't have to do something, what did you choose

Graham 13:44

Yeah, me and my buddies in the little town. I mean, my town is one mile long, so to like jump on your bikes and drive downtown was like a couple blocks. And, you know, we, we'd get on our bikes and go downtown to like the local restaurant, had a couple like video games. We'd go hang out there and shoot quarters in the video games all day. Or we'd always be playing football in the backyard or playing baseball down at the local school at the baseball diamond. Played Little League. I mean, I'm in my mind picturing 10 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old, like this is '85, '86, '87, so there weren't video games. I mean, hell, there weren't even VCRs yet. we were outside playing, riding our bikes, playing sports maybe hanging out at my buddy Scott's house watching WWF professional wrestling. But it's funny, those guys, we ended up being best of friends all through high school. Like once we could drive and stuff, we'd hang out at one or the other guy's house every, every single week. We all played football together. M- Like those are really awesome relationships that I formed very young. My best friend still to this day, who I maybe talk to once a year, but we pick right back up. I'm 51. he's 50. He grew up right next to me from the day he was born until I was in eighth grade and we moved to the other side of town. But like those are just relationships that I formed very early, I was so blessed to have those all the way through my life. And they were just, they're funny guys, man. Like I love to laugh, I love comedy, and like w- all we would do is just laugh and have a good time as we got older. Like just hanging out at one of their houses, watching Chris Farley movies and just cracking up. Like that small town, like, "Hey, let's go over to Scott's house and just hang out," and you know, hang out in his basement and it was really... I was really lucky the, the way that I was raised.

Caroline 15:33

Was faith a part of your upbringing?

Graham 15:36

Yes and no. I mean, we went to church every weekend, but that's just what you did. My mother's mother was super religious um, and I think that just trickled down. But, you know, once I went off to, once I went off to college, I didn't really go to church anymore. would, I wouldn't say it was like a real heavy focus in my house, but we did go to, we went to church every, every weekend, and then we went through catechism and confirmation and all that. And then it was like, once I was down here in Atlanta, 2005 or something, I had sung the national anthem at the Atlanta Braves game, and I was working in a gym at the time, and a guy walks in, he goes, "Did I hear that you sang the national anthem at the Braves game this weekend?" And, I, and I was like, "Yeah, I'm a singer and it's what I do." And he goes, "I'm the choir director at the local Baptist church." And I'm like, "You know, me and church aren't really a thing." But he's like, "Just come and try it out, man." And I just, I loved it. And from there, sang in that choir, and then I got a job at a Catholic church doing music and ended up working there for 13 years. And so just it, it's been cyclical.

Caroline 16:43

how did you even decide that you had to go to college or you wanted to go to college, and how did you even realize that, vocal performance or music was a degree that, you could get?

Graham 16:56

I mean, at that time, you know, that was, that, that was the path. Graduate high school, go to college, get a job, and retire. Like, that's... You wanna get a good job, you go to school. It was my junior year of high school when I was Tony in West Side Story, 'cause I was... I knew I wanted to do music, I just couldn't decide, do I wanna do instrumental music? 'Cause I loved, like, jazz music, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm playing saxophone." I started taking clarinet lessons and flute lessons because if you wanna be a, a jazz woodwind player, you gotta play all the things. You can't just be the sax player. I started doing that, but then it was my junior year of high school, Tony in West Side Story, I was just, like, so moved by it. I was like, "The... this is what I wanna do. This is what I wanna do." And I had been looking at, like, Indiana University and other music schools, and I knew that there was a guy from our, from our high school who was like 10 years older than me who had gone to college for musical theater, and he ended up on Broadway and all that. He came back and talked to us about his journey and things like that, and so I knew I needed to go to, to college and, and get training if that's what I wanted to do. The caveat in that is that I am a super late bloomer and super immature for my age, and so at 17, 18 years old, when I decided on this specific school that I wanted to go and do music, 'cause they had a great conservatory and I wanted to wrestle there, I didn't realize they, they, they do classical training. They do opera. They don't do musical theater. There's no dance training. There's no... it's opera. And I discovered that once I got there, and I was like, "Well, I guess I'll just stay. I guess I'll get tr- I guess I'll get trained in this," which turned out to be a fantastic foundation for singing in general. But yeah, I chose the wrong school. That wasn't what I wanted to do, but it j- I mean, it turned out great. But yeah, it was just that's just what you did back then. I'll tell you, uh, the conversations we have with my 13-year-old son and my 10-year-old daughter and my eight-year-old daughter are very different these days, where we're telling them, like, "Hey, you don't have to go to college. Would love to see you do that if it's something, if you wanna pursue something that requires a degree but it's not the '90s anymore. So you don't have to." Like, I mean, my goal is for my kids to just be happy and find something they love and they're passionate about. I don't want them to, to grind for 30 years in a cubicle, and dread their life and things like that. So yeah, the conversation we have with our kids now is much different than the conversations we had in the '90s. Like, I just, I don't think they, they have to go to school to be successful anymore. I think there's way more opportunities for them to, to pursue things they love. Like, that's my thing, is I want, I want you to do something you love. I want you to be happy about whatever it is you're doing. I want you to feel fulfilled and I'm, I'm lucky that I feel like I've always been fulfilled in whatev- whatever I've done. Even when I was working the day job, I was still doing the singing on the side or at night or on the weekends, and like I was still doing... And then I started working in, in gyms, and that was fun, like fitness and working out. I felt really fulfilled. And then working in the church and doing music. I want my kids to find that sooner in life than I did. I don't want them to feel like they gotta go do something they hate because that's what everybody does, or I don't want them coming home from work complaining about their job or their boss every day because that's what everybody does. I want them to find their, their true path or their, their purpose way, way earlier in life. So that's what my wife and I preach to them. "Well, "Hey, if you wanna go the college route, we support that, but we also support if you don't want to

Caroline 20:37

Now when did you meet your wife?

Graham 20:38

2009 at church, I was playing piano, and all of a sudden I looked up and I saw this girl in the fifth row, and I was like, "Whoa, she is really pretty." and then the guitar player, who was a great friend of mine, and he was the music director, I did never forget this. He's, like, strumming his guitar, and the piano's right, and he leans down to me and he goes, "Do you see that girl in the fifth row?" And he knew I was, like, 36, 37, and I wanted to get married. You know, I wanted to have a family and all this. So everybody at the church is always trying to connect me with somebody. Like, let's find, let's find Graham's wife here. You know, there's 17,000 members. There's gotta be somebody. But he's like, he's strumming the guitar and he leans in and he goes, "You see the girl in the fifth row?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He... And literally this is what he said. I'd never met her. It's the first time we ever saw her. He goes, "You guys would have beautiful babies." What? And then after, after that s-

Caroline 21:31

And how, how do you approach someone

Graham 21:33

so, so

Caroline 21:34

after that?

Graham 21:34

I was sitting, mass was over, and all of a sudden she came walking past the piano, and I just kinda looked at her and I kinda smiled. And she walked up to me and she goes, "You have an amazing voice." And I just went, "You are really pretty." And then we talked for a couple minutes and then she left. And there's a female singer that sang with us, and she's like, "Oh my gosh, that girl likes you." I'm like, "Shut up, that girl is way too pretty for me." And she's like, 'cause girls are smart and boys are stupid that is my mantra that I teach my kids. that the, the female singer said, "Bro, she could've gone from her seat out the door to the parking lot, but instead she walked over here to you. Then she went down the hallway and then I saw her in the parking lot backtracking all the way back. So she made it a point to come and talk to you. She goes, 'She likes you.'" Well, long story short, I talked to her for three Sundays after that, or two Sundays after that, and the third one the female singer goes, "Oh my God, if you don't ask her out, I'm gonna ask her out for you." 'Cause she's like, "She comes and talks to you every week." And I come to find out later that that was March of '09. My wife had come back to the church in January, three months before that, but she sat way on the other side of the church. And then she noticed me at the piano, and my wife is a, not a super aggressive, uh, she's very introverted. She slowly worked her way from the left side of the church over to the right side every week to get closer to me, and that week that I saw her was the first time she sat there. But she said, "Oh yeah, I had noticed you and I was getting up the courage over the last couple months to come and talk to you." So yeah.

Caroline 23:22

How old was she at that

Graham 23:23

She wa- she's six years younger than me, so 30

Caroline 23:30

Oh

Graham 23:31

like that. I think she was 29 and I was 35 or 30 s- I don't know, somewhere in there. But she's six years younger than me. But yeah, and she had... That's the church she grew up in, and she decided in the January, she's like, "You know what? I'm gonna go check out St. Ann's again, see what's going on there, and start going back to church." And she came back on, on Epiphany Sunday, the w- the week after the new year, and um, it's like the Three Kings, that's, that's the, the mass. And at our church, that's our one, like, Spanish mass every year, 'cause we don't have a huge Spanish population in that area. So we would let the, the Spanish ministry handle that mass, and the priest would be preaching in Spanish. They would do one reading in Spanish, one reading in English. We'd put the words up on the screen with the translation and all that. That was the first mass that she came back to, and she was like, "What happened to St. Ann's?" She's like, "This is so... It's all Spanish and all that." And so she almost didn't come back after that, 'cause she thought the whole church had changed to, like, a Spanish mass and all this. So that, that was a wild little note where she's like, "I almost didn't come back." But, so that's where we met. We met at that church, and then we went on our first date. Oh, so I guess we met in February, because our first date was March 9th, and then nine months later we got engaged, and nine months later we got married. Like, we're just like, we're like, "This is it

Caroline 24:54

That's, so that's the thing, like when you kinda see something, you just go for it and y- you, I, I mean, after encouragement, right? Um,

Graham 25:01

I was, uh, it was so funny. I was scared.

Caroline 25:05

How did you get this job at Kimberly-Clark as an admin after going to school for music? Why, why and how did that... Like, did you try to get some music things? Did Broadway say, "No, thank..." Like, what, what? How did that... Do you... How'd that

Graham 25:22

So a really interesting part of my story is that I actually flunked out of college after three years. I I was such a goody two-shoes in high school, man. I was class president, honor roll. Coach Kuhn's kid, and like, it just... I had it going on, man. Everything was so easy for me. Then I go to college, and I was... I never... Like, I drank one time in high school, and I got caught, and I was suspended for two football games. Like, it just wasn't... I wasn't a partier. I go to college, and I discover weed and beer, and I'm like, "This is awesome," and just completely rebelled, and didn't go to class. Slept through every morning class, was hungover every day, partied every night. All I wanted to do was wrestle and, like, go to singing lessons. I didn't wanna... It was a liberal arts school, so I had to go to, like, math class and all these different, you know, core classes. So after three years when my GPA was, like, under one, they were like, "You need to go, bro." so I was off for a year,

Caroline 26:22

And your mom's still washing dishes, so you can do

Graham 26:24

my gosh. My, my father and I didn't speak for a year after that. He was not happy. Yeah, I, mean, and rightfully so. I mean, he called me a loser. Warranted fair. and so after a year I petitioned to get back in. I went for another year, and then I had to finish I had to do student teaching 'cause I had added music education just in case I wanted to be a teacher. 'Cause I had done s- a little bit of teaching. Um, Like I had taken conducting classes and stuff. I'm like, "I kinda like this too. I really like doing music with first graders. I really love this." So I'm like, "Let me do education too." So that added a little extra to what I needed to do, and I needed to finish student teaching, which would have been the following fall semester. And it was, like, April of the summer before my final semester, and that February or March, my longtime girlfriend and I had broken up. And I started thinking like, "What do I really wanna do with my life? What do I wanna do?" And I found the internet was, it was '96, '98, so the internet was starting to be a real thing, and you know, there's these chat groups online, and I really loved a cappella music. And I found this, site that would like look for singers. It's like, "We're looking for a second tenor." And so there was this group in Atlanta called Vocal Tonic, and they had put out a couple CDs. They were pretty serious. And they were like, "We're looking for a second tenor. Send us a tape." And so I made a videotape on a camcorder in my elementary school music room of me singing, and they were like, "Yeah, you- we want you to come down to Atlanta and audition for us." And I was 20, I don't know, 23 or 24, and that was my second time on an airplane ever. Flew down to Atlanta, auditioned for them, and they were like, "Yeah, we want you to join the group." So I had to tell my parents again, like, "I'm not finishing school. I, uh, I'm gonna pursue this dream." Uh, and so I moved to Atlanta, and I had, a Goodwill, couch in my U-Haul truck and some clothes, and that was it. And I moved to Atlanta and started living with one of the guys. But of course, there's not a ton of money until you start touring and all this. We had to cut a CD. We had to get promo- So like, one of the people who was friends with the group was like, "Oh, I work at Kimberly-Clark, and they usually go through a temp agency." And so she connected me with the temp agency, and then after a few months, they were like, "Yeah, we like you. We wanna hire you full time." And so I ended up being there for four years until I got certified as a personal trainer, and then I'm like, "I'm gonna go be a personal trainer. I'm outta here." But yeah, that's... I got in through a temp agency because I needed a real job while we were cutting CDs and making promo stuff, and so went through a temp agency and ended up working there. And I'm from Green Bay, Wisconsin. Like Kimberly-Clark is based in Neenah, Wisconsin, like,

Caroline 29:19

right I'm like how, uh, you had to go all the way towards Atlanta area. You had to go all the way to Georgia to be part of Kimberly-Clark. Uh, But on the other hand, it's like, well, I guess you're familiar with the company You probably had, you

Graham 29:30

Well, when she said that, when she said, "I work at Kimberly-Clark," I'm like, "The paper company?" She's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "I went to college, like, five minutes from Neenah." I'm like, "I know all..." She's like, "Yeah, there's an office in Roswell, and they hire through a temp agency." And so I'm like, "I'll be a secretary, dude. I don't, I don't care." Oh, I loved it, man. I loved it. I mean, I was the only male admin in the, in that whole office, and I, no ego, dude, I, I loved it. It was so fun

Caroline 29:58

Interesting okay, so then how did this interest in, "Oh, I wanna be a personal trainer," how did that come about?

Graham 30:06

you know, going through college and wrestling in college, like fitness and working out was always really important. But then after the flunking out, I put on a lot of weight. And then I got, a lot of it off again, but then when I moved to Atlanta, it slowly was creeping back on. And then I just remember there was a video of a concert that we did, and I just remember the camera's pan- there was five of us. So I was like number three or four, so I'm kind of in the middle, and the camera's panning, and it's like Paul, and Dave, and other Paul, and then all of a sudden Graham. And like the, the guys and m- we go, "Whoa." It was just kinda Graham had kinda ballooned a little bit. And so then I was like, "Well, there's a Gold's Gym across the street. I'll start going there." And I started working out every morning at Gold's Gym, and I just, g- I really, really got into it, and I was getting strong, and my body was changing. I'd see the personal trainers working with people. I'm like, "That looks really fun." Again, I love teaching. I love coaching. And so I'm like, "That would be really fun to do that." And I was like, I was working out in the morning before work, and then I would go to the gym at lunchtime, and like I was working out two times a day, and I was super serious. And then I was like, I guess I could get certified and be a personal trainer." Like, I'm reading all the men's health magazines. I'm learning everything I can about fitness and, like, the best workouts and meal... pl- Like, I was just really, really passionate about it. Got really into, like, bodybuilding. Not that I was like 300 pounds of yoked muscle, but I really got into that kind of stuff. And then I was like, "Oh my gosh, that would be so fun to, like, go to the gym every day and work with people and impact them and change their life." And I was 28, 'cause I'll never forget the, the personal training manager at Crunch when he's interviewing me, he goes, "Wow." He goes, "Most people don't, don't start this, this late in life." And I'm like, "Yeah, man. I don't know. I just really got into it. I really wanna do this." And so once... So I would go to Kimberly-Clark during the day, and then I'd go work at night at Crunch Fitness and on the weekends. And I was like, "Once my training money equals my Kimberly-Clark salary, I'm gone." I don't remember how long it took, but it was definitely within a year. It might've been six months. I don't know. But I was like, "Oh my gosh. I'm, I'm quitting the Kimberly-Clark thing, and I'm gonna be a personal trainer." And

Caroline 32:28

And did you still sing? Were you still singing with

Graham 32:30

Yep, Yep, we were still doing that. We were still touring. We did, like, college tours and things. It just wasn't consistent enough to be considered a job, you know. It was like A, a few grand every couple of months as we did this, or we'd sell a bunch of CDs, but there was not a consistent thing. So I was still singing with them, working as a personal trainer, I was just really good at that. And then from that, I became a personal training manager, and then Bally's bought Crunch, and then I moved to Gold's Gym and became a general manager there. And I... So I was in the fitness industry for almost four or five years. And then from that I had done some, some studio sessions with one of the guys in the a cappella group, did a lot of Christian music, and he'd always hire me to come sing with him. And then he hired this female singer who blew me away. She was amazing, and she's like, "Oh my gosh, I love singing with you. Our group is looking for a singer at the church." And so I started singing with them at this Catholic church, and then they all got moved to this other Catholic church, which turned into me being the part-time choir director and just snowballed from there, and I left Gold's Gym and started working at that church. And for the next 13 years, that's what I did.

Caroline 33:44

Did you ever audition for anything Broadway

Graham 33:48

Did not. No, and it's funny, and when I've had... When people introduce me on podcasts and things, I think my bio somewhere says, like, "I've sung everything except opera." 'Cause they'll be like, "Oh, he's a professional opera singer." I'm like, "No, I have to clarify that. I was trained in opera, but I never sang opera after college." So I've sung everything Christian music. Every year we would do this concert where it was more more Broadway, classical, not churchy music. Like a dinner theater, just fun for the parish kind of stuff. So I sang a lot of stuff like that, but I never auditioned for shows and things like that. I did the a cappella tour thing for five years, and then doing lots of concerts and things through the church, and then a buddy of, of mine and me, we would do this duo thing where we'd tour and do CDs and things like that. But no, I actually never did any theater-type shows after college.

Caroline 34:42

Did that like dream desire kind of go away or it just morphed into these,

Graham 34:47

Yeah, it kinda went away. Once I started doing these other things, it was, first of all, it was way more freedom. Like, I mean, we're running our own group, we're setting our own tours, we're setting our own schedules. We're, do we wanna do some dance moves in this song or do we not? Like, it was just freedom, whereas it wasn't the same thing day after day with rehearsal, rehearsal, and like, "This is the part you're playing. You have to do it the..." So honestly, I don't even know if I would've liked it. Now, I had a friend who was three years younger than me from my hometown, who, he also went to school for musical theater. He did end up on Broadway, 'cause he followed the path of the guy that was 10 years older than me, and he had a lead in Mamma Mia, He would go to California for pilot season every year, and he actually got in an episode of NCIS. He was, he was the limo driver for Kid Rock. He did a scene with Kid Rock, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, Rick is killing it, dude." Two years later, he moved back to our little town. He was so done with it, with Broadway and all that kind of stuff. So, I might've dodged a bullet. It seems like it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and that, yeah, that dream just kind of fizzled, 'cause I'm like, "I'm doing singing, I'm doing mus- I love singing. I love music." I don't love, like when we did, like, one-act plays, I don't love the acting. That's not what I love, and I don't love the dancing. It was the music. It was the singing. So I don't even know if I would've been happy if that dr- dream was realized, because my passion was just, just singing, just being on stage and making people happy. I, I hated acting, to be honest, and I really didn't love dancing. So eh, maybe it just worked out right.

Caroline 36:25

How did you get into like, videography, more production-y kind of things? Where did that come along?

Graham 36:33

Yeah, When I was in sixth grade, I would go to all the wrestling tournaments with my father and all the wrestling matches. You know, I'm 12 years old on the bus with the high school guys and go spend all day at the wrestling tournament, and I was like the little manager bringing them water and, and all that stuff. And then one day, my dad just said, "You know, we should really be videotaping these matches. Would you wanna do that? We'll take the camcorder and put it on a tripod, and you can just film the matches." I'm like, "Yeah, that, that sounds fun." And I just really liked it. I liked, like zooming in and, like following them on the mat and, like zooming out and, like all... I liked that. And then at the end of the year, I was like, "I wonder if I can make, like a highlight film, like a highlight reel and put music on it." And so I figured out how to do that, and we showed it at the end of the year banquet. I mean, oh my God, I cringe now thinking about it. And it was VHS, VCRs, like the little lines and all the... But it got done and people were like, "Oh my gosh, it's amazing. I love it." And I'm like, "I kinda like this. Which looking back now, I understand that was, like I loved telling the story of whatever happened and getting a response from people, getting an emotional response and, like just being, feeling really proud of what I did. So I did that all through middle school and then even when I was wrestling in high school on the team, I would make the highlight videos. And then in college, my college wrestling coach had heard of that. He goes, "Hey, you made highlight videos in high school?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He goes, "Well, if we tape the matches, could you make a highlight reel for our team?" And I'm like, "Sure." So I did that a couple times, and then that was '97, and I didn't do anything in video again until like 2010. And it was like working at the Catholic church, part-time choir director. Then they were like, "Oh, you can do Photoshop? We want you to be the bulletin editor, so now you're a full-time employee." And then from that they're like, "We want you to be a worship leader and like assistant music director and all that." And then it came to be like 2009 or '10 and they were like, "Hey, you've made videos before?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I mean, I've, I've dabbled." Well, let's try to make some videos." And then from there I was good at it. I was good at the storytelling and the editing, and from there, for the next 13 years, I was cranking out two, three, four videos every single week, and I just got really good at it. And what I've discovered was I loved to have the conversations with people like how we're doing now. Like, this is so fun for me to just have this conversation and like ask questions and answer questions. And so rather than having the ministry leader come in with this teleprompter and be like, "Come and join our ministry," because it's so fun and it's so impactful on my faith life, I'd have them sit there and I would just fire off questions about, "Why do you do this? What, what do you get out of it?" And they'd just speak from their heart and they're like, "Oh, I've been doing it for 15 years and it's enriched my family and my prayer life." And some of them start crying, you know. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is the goal, this real authentic storytelling stuff. thankfully the church that I was working at is in a pretty richy rich area of Atlanta, so we've got all these CEOs and executives out in the pews seeing my videos every weekend. So they start calling the office like, "Who, who makes the videos? They're really good. I, I kinda want one for my business." And then from that, that just snowballed and that's why I always say I backed into entrepreneurship. I never had a plan to be a business owner. It was just that side hustle video business got way too busy that it came to a point where my wife and I had, had to make a decision like are we gonna slow down the side hustle and all this money we're making or are we gonna quit the day job and that guaranteed salary and like go into video full time? And we took the leap and did video. So I, bro, I just backed into this stuff. There was no plan to like, oh, one day I wanna own my own video company and be a, be a business owner. Like I loved that church job. I was never gonna retire. I was doing videos and music like hello, greatest thing ever.

Caroline 40:32

Yeah. Now I'm curious did you ever finish college?

Graham 40:36

Never did

Caroline 40:38

Never needed to never never, never had to go

Graham 40:41

thought about it. I really thought about it, and, like, actually, the guy that interviewed me for the church job in 2007, he was like, "You really need to go back to school and get that degree. Go back to school, get that degree." And I never did. There was a couple years where I got fairly serious about it, where I'm like, "Okay, well, night school, what would it cost to transfer?" By the time I got back to it and was asking my college about transferring or finish, they were like, "It's been so long." They were like, "So many of your credits wouldn't even transfer. It's not gonna..." So no, I never did. But I will say, I hope this doesn't come across like an excuse, but I feel like that really propelled me and motivated me because I couldn't... Like, especially in the late '90s, early 2000s, me, I couldn't walk into any office and be like, "Here's my resume with my bachelor's, so now I can get hired." There were so many positions that were like you had to have a degree. I didn't have that, so the door was shut before I could even get there. So I feel like I had to work harder to be successful and make ends meet because I didn't have that degree where I could just walk into any job and be qualified. I was so unqualified for so many jobs. So I think it helped motivate me and kept me going, there's so many leadership gurus or coaches out there who are like, "If you have a plan B, or if you have the safety net, you're gonna use it. You're gonna fall back on it." Well, I didn't have one, and so I just had to keep pushing forward, pu- pushing forward. I would not recommend it to people. I'm not saying do what I did, but I do think it was a blessing for me in that I had to work a lot harder to, to make things happen, 'cause I couldn't just walk into a room and be like, "Hey, here's my bachelor's degree. Now I'm qualified to be hired." So many jobs I was not qualified for just because I didn't have a degree.

Caroline 42:21

And you got to rely on your creativity. And so I think there's a few themes that are, that were there. It's like you loved variety. Like all throughout your entire life, you were doing a variety of things, and maybe even things that others would think didn't go together, like wrestling and theater, right? And, and yet they went together just fine for you. And, you know, hanging out with friends and then picking up stones, just a variety of things to fill your time, to fulfill you, not just in one tiny lane and then rest, and then get up and do that tiny lane again. And then even the like, the creativity and following your passion and your interest, and being open when people brought things up to you, and then also realizing, "Oh, I do like working out. Wait, what are those guys doing? Somebody over there is getting paid to help that person work out? Wait, what?" And that like, the, the ability to have your own schedule that you set for the goals that you wanted to do, for the things that you said yes to, those kind of like weaved in and out of this whole thing of setting you up for, you know, each chapter, each journey that you're like... And then you're like, "And there's a lot of reasons why, even though I love this, even though I'm really good at it, I think there's more. I think there's more for me. What, what would it be like if I just tried it? What would it be like if the side hustle became the "thing?" And, you know, probably at that time, having a family and, and wanting to be able to be around and do different things. I'm sure all of this stuff just kind of... I don't know. I'm speaking for you, but I, think I see a through Line there of You just being your own authentic self

Graham 44:03

Well, that's funny, I built my entire business on authenticity. Like, that's what I preach to my clients, and that's why I say our videos work, 'cause we're like, we're, we're telling the authentic story of who you are. That's what sets you apart. There's 50 different plumbers in my area, but every one of you has a different story. Every one of you has a different heart behind why you do it. And so, yeah, it's funny, my mom used to call me a maverick. She gave me this a book called The Maverick Way when I started working at Kimberly-Clark, and it was written by somebody somehow related to Kimberly-Clark. But she would al- it would drive her nuts, 'cause my mom is very systematized. She's very logical. She's very, like, you know, spreadsheets and budget and all that, and I'm such a free spirit. It would just drive her bananas. And she slowly started to embrace it, and she's like, "You're just such a maverick. You cover out- you color outside the lines. You do things your own way." And she's like, "It's a blessing and a curse." that's just how I've always been, and I am not risk-averse, like, to a fault. I am not afraid to take a risk and fall on my face. I think a lot of that came from, honestly, from wrestling. get your butt kicked, and then you gotta come back again, and there's nobody to blame, dude. It's me. I didn't work hard enough. I didn't do a good enough job. But you can't just cry about it and quit. You gotta come back again and come back again. So I think there was a huge part of who I am came, came from that. But also, I did a huge LinkedIn post probably six months ago that talked about what you were talking about, where, you know, I did th- like, my father had one job his whole life. Like, his career was elementary school gym teacher, 35 years, the same gym. Like, he had one career. I've had, like, 20 careers, and then I would say, like, you know, "I started a landscaping business, and I did this, and da, da, da," not realizing that I was taking little parts of each of those and building what I am now. Like, learning different aspects of each one of those all came together into what I do now. Like, people are like, "How do you, how does your music background inform what you do with video?" And I'm like, "Emotion, stories." I'm like, I had to take Italian, French, German, Latin, in college and learn how to sing in all those languages and tell that story,

Caroline 46:12

Wow.

Graham 46:13

singing in German. So emoting, being emotional, not being afraid to be emotional. Like, that's why I'm so good with working with the blue collar people. I get them crying on camera. You get this big, rough, tough home builder, he thinks he's gonna come in and talk about nails and windows and plans, and I got him talking about working with his grandpa in the wood shop when he's 10 years old, and he's bawling on camera. And I'm like, "That's the stuff, man." But I'm, I'm not afraid to tap into emotion. That comes from my musical training of, like, being on stage and, like, having to emote and tell a story without speaking that language. And I think that's been a real gift for me. And so yeah, I still take parts of everything I've done in my life into what I do now, especially my music training, which seems so crazy. But when I think about it, I'm like, it plays such a huge part in, in what I do.

Caroline 47:02

some people say emotion is energy in motion, and, and that's been a lot of the things that gave you energy, was through that music, through the fascination of it, through the becoming it, through the doing it, through letting those emotions go through you, whether it was your story or somebody else's, and getting the response, and having people be like Ah thank you. Thank you for playing that." I mean, there's a lot of people that can play the piano. There's a lot of people that can sing. But when you, when you hear somebody that's like, it is through their entire being, you're like, "Yeah, that's what I want. I want that gift that's not worried about how it looks or sounds, but is just trying to do its best and do better and

Graham 47:46

That's what I l- I loved that about Being in the church was when people would come up after mass and, like, literally have tears in their eyes and be like, That song that you sang reminded me of my mother." And it was like, I was impacting lives. I was h- they were having an emotional response because of something I did, and that just, it, that is so... I don't know, I feel like that's my purpose, is to impact people in a positive way, whether it's videos for their business to help them become successful, or videos in their business that helps them help other people, or singing at church where somebody's like, "Oh, my gosh, you sang that hymn that I grew up with and it reminded me of my grandma." And like, or like singing at funerals. Like, I was so terrified the first time I sang at a funeral. Probably the first 100 funerals I did. And then you start to realize, like, I'm doing a service for the family. I'm helping them heal. I'm helping them grieve. it's such a cliche thing to say, but it, it was so rewarding to know that I was using my gifts to impact other people. I, I mean, it fills me up. I know everybody says that, but that's really why I do what I do. I love to impact other people. I love to have a positive impact on other people and see them win, see them happy, see them successful. Like, I think that's where my coaching background and teaching background comes in. I just, I love to see other people win and just being a part of that and using my talents is so, it's just, I don't know, so cool, man. It's so cool.

Caroline 49:09

So how do you keep that in, like what music related, aside from helping other people with videos and all of that, but like the performance through your own stuff or singing, where do you do that in your life now? 'Cause now you have this business and you're helping other people, and of course you're helping yourself too, but like is there a dedicated time or fun hobby, passion? Like where is that now? Is it,

Graham 49:34

Nope. I don't do it. I don't do it. When I left the day job to do this full time, I think I've sung maybe four times in the last six years. I've sung at a couple funerals. I think I sang at a wedding, and my mother is super pissed. She's like, "You have a gift you have to share with the world." And like I always tell her like, "Mom, I, I basically became a professional singer at or 16 when I started becoming like the go-to guy for weddings. And so I was basically a professional singer for 30 years." It's like I always tell her, "I scratched that itch, Mom. Like I'm super proud of what I did," but I don't have this yearning to like sing. I'll maybe here and there I'll get a wild hair to be like, "I'm gonna record." Like I'll pull this microphone out and pull up the software, and I'll like sing and record something. But I'm not feeling super pulled to, to perform and, and really sing anymore, and I don't know if that's

Caroline 50:28

In the shower? Like, do you go to church and sing at church just in the regular pews?

Graham 50:34

no. Even in my car, I don't even sing with the radio, nothing. Like, I just kinda like left that guy behind. Not that I don't still love it. about three months ago, a, a guy I met locally on a local Facebook group, a business group, he knew I had, I had sung and he knew that I had sang in the Catholic Church, and he goes, he goes, "I don't know who else to call," but he's like, "My mother's funeral is tomorrow, and I need somebody to sing Ave Maria, and I don't know who can do it." And that was, like, kind of one of my

Caroline 51:02

Yeah

Graham 51:03

that I was known for. And I was like, "Dude, I'll do it. I'll do it for you." And, um, he's like, "What do I owe you?" I'm like, "I'm not gonna charge you for this. I'm gonna drive 20 minutes. I'm gonna sing a song I've sung a thousand times and drive home 20 minutes, and I know how important this is for you." That was super cool 'cause I k- I mean, he hugged me so m- He's like, "Thank you so much. It means so much to my family." And I'm like, it was so simple for me, but it had such a s- huge impact on him and his family. That was cool. But I don't, I just don't feel compelled to, like, gosh, I wish, I wish I was doing a concert this weekend, or I wish I was going to a rehearsal, or I w- I don't know. Like I said, I, I've scratched that itch, and it's just kinda Graham 2.0 now.

Caroline 51:46

things can be great for a chapter. They don't have to be your whole

Graham 51:49

Yep. I mean, people are so amazed by that. They're like, "You don't sing anymore? Like, that was your whole life." I'm like, "It was." I don't know. I'm focused on... I don't know. I'm just focused on having a greater impact doing what I'm doing. It's much better for my family. I mean, my first year in business, I tripled my church salary. Like, I mean, it just allows way more freedom and all. So I don't know. I'm just focused on being a business owner and helping other people, and I don't, I honestly don't think about singing that much anymore.

Caroline 52:18

Do you have any hobbies or what do you do when you're not working?

Graham 52:22

Honestly, I just like meeting people for coffee. I love human connection. Yeah, we talk business and stuff, but I really like being friends with other business owners so that I can talk about problems and challenges and things like that. So I really... Crazy, but I love to go to coffee with other people locally and just hang out and talk. My son plays soccer. He's gotten super serious about it the last few years, so we're doing soccer things all the time, and I never f- that's crazy to me. I can't believe we're a soccer family. I know nothing about it. But I freaking love it. We're watching the World Cup, like, every hour, every day right now. and really just, like, having... I just recently started going back to the gym again in the last few weeks. And just, like, I- doing something for me, like, being absolutely selfish for that, like, hour and a half and be like, "Doing this for me." 'Cause my wife is like, "Why don't you take him with you?" And I'm like, "Nope. This is the w- literally the one thing that I do for myself, and I'm gonna do that." And so just putting on my AirPods and throwing on some heavy metal music and, like, lifting weights, and just, like, being me for an hour, hour and a half, it's such a great release. just doing that. But, like, and there's, you know, family time. The girls are in dance. My son's in soccer. We love, we go to the pool, like, almost every day. Like, just being a dad, man, I just, I really, I really love it.

Caroline 53:38

How do you define authentic success for you now?

Graham 53:42

Hmm. I think authentic success for me obviously not compromising my, my morals, my, my, my mission, my purpose, not compromising any of that. Serving the people that I wanna serve, not taking every job that comes my way, because I did that when I first started out. I had a very scarcity mindset, and I'm like, "Oh, you wanna pay me? Sure. Oh, I need to discount it? Yeah, no problem. I want the work. I'm desperate for the work." But now being able to choose who I wanna work with so that I'm absolutely filled with joy with every client I work with that is incredibly successful in my eyes. With the fact that I make a decent living, we have financial freedom for the most part to kinda do what we want when we want to, but I'm working with people that I genuinely love, and I don't dread it. And just being able to be myself, like being able to cuss when I want to when I'm working with clients and not putting on this mask that, oh, my gosh, I'm walking into a CEO's office, now I need to act like a CEO. Like, no, I am me. I am Graham Kuhn from Luxembourg, Wisconsin, farm boy that says the F word. If you don't like that, we're not a good fit. I think being able to be myself and still have a business with people I love to work with, I think for me is the definition of success. It's not about the awards that I've won. It's not really about the revenue, although, you know, I do have like a, a goal that I wanna hit every year and things like that, so I feel successful when I hit that. But I don't judge it by that. I judge it by how I feel and how I live my life, and just being, being able to be myself and work with people that I love to work with on my terms, bro, that's like the dream for everybody. So that, when I'm mentoring younger people, I'm like, "Man, you find your purpose, and you work with people you love, Life is so great. It's so great."

Caroline 55:32

How do people find you? How do they work with you? Or how do they get on your radar so you can decide if you wanna

Graham 55:41

Yeah, if they're worthy. I, uh, LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn all the time. I'm really active on LinkedIn, so find me on LinkedIn, connect, message me, whatever. I love talking with people on there. And then the website is Focusfilms.com. Just check it out. Contact me on there. I love doing virtual coffees. I love talking to people. I love answering questions. I love giving away knowledge. You know, if you've got questions about videos or storage, any of that stuff, I just, I crave human connection, and I love to help people. And so if there's any way that I can do that, trust that it will not end with a sales pitch or a webinar, I promise.

Caroline 56:20

I love it. Thank you so much, Graham. I have enjoyed every single second of this conversation. I am so glad that we're in each other's universes, and I look forward to, you know, watch out, 'cause every now and then I'm just gonna be like, "Hey, Graham, can can I talk with you?" A little bit?" I I love it. love it so much. Thank you so much for being part of Your Next Success, and I am so excited for you and all your future successes.

Graham 56:49

Caroline

56:49

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success. And remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want