Chanoa Inez 0:03

We went there the next summer, and we had a magical day. It was the first time I got to meet his parents in person, because we didn't get to see them on our last trip. We'd had video calls from Miami. And we just had, a magical day in the capital, and then we went to the sea coast to friend's, uh, condo he gave us for the week, and it was, like, just a really perfect night. And I remember, um, up until that point in my life, it was uh, I, first time I'd felt like everything was perfect. There were no problems. Like, life was just really wonderful, and everything felt aligned.

Speaker 0:37

Have you ever kept moving through grief, trusting that momentum was the same as healing, only to realize years later that your body had been keeping score the whole time? Chanoa Inez built her life's work from exactly that reckoning,

Speaker 2 0:57

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal, I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves, so you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success.

Speaker 1:40

Chanoa Inez is an author, advanced meditator, and a personal brand strategist who built a copywriting career helping others communicate who they are before a profound loss called her to do that work for herself. She is the author of Dream On: How to Create the New Life of Your Dreams After Upheaval or Loss, and is the creator of the Magnetize Your Personal Brand Program, which helps business owners develop their presence from the inside out. Chanoa Inez has always been someone who moves toward beauty and the life she can picture. She followed that instinct through cities and careers all the way to a moment that changed everything. What she found on the other side of grief and the inner work that made the return possible is what this conversation is about. Let's listen in.

Caroline 2:43

Inez, welcome to Your Next Success. I am so thrilled to be having this conversation with you.

Chanoa Inez 2:49

it's so great to be here, Caroline. Thank you.

Caroline 2:52

So we are gonna get to all of the amazing things that you do. You are an author, you help so many people with their transformations and transitions. We're going to get to all of that, all of that beauty that you put out into the world. But I'd love to dial it way back. Can you help us understand where were you born and what was life like for the very youngest Chanoa?

Chanoa Inez 3:16

I was born in upstate New York. Well, technically not upstate, but an hour out of the city, so i'm not from New York city. And um, mm, life is really interesting, my grandmother mostly she would kinda like, know co-raise me as a child, because my mother was in college and getting different degrees And, and um, you kinda me and my friends, I had a core group of friends their parents were stay-at-home parents. We had all these little adventures and spent a lot of time outside. There was always somebody who could like supervise one of our next whims. And, there was a lot of imagination involved. You know? We'd put on little plays and make costumes, and there was always something very interesting going on.

Caroline 4:04

Oh, that's awesome. Now, did you have a certain role that you usually, went to in those things? Like were you the one designing the play or designing the costume or coming up with the plot? Like...

Chanoa Inez 4:14

No. Well, I did help with the plot, but it really depends on what the next project was. Yeah, so that is interesting, though, storytelling for

Caroline 4:21

So your core group, like even at that very, very young age, you kind of took turns.

Chanoa Inez 4:25

Yeah,

Caroline 4:26

That's cool. What was your mom studying?

Chanoa Inez 4:30

She's a registered nurse, so

Caroline 4:32

Nice. My mom's a nurse also,

Chanoa Inez 4:34

Oh

Caroline 4:34

She took me to some of her college classes. I just thought, "Well, that's kind of neat," when I kind of recalled it. She's like, "Yeah, I was taking you to some of my finals because I didn't have anywhere else to take you, and the professors were so kind that they let me come, and people loved holding you and all this and I'm like, "What? Is this why I love learning?" You know? It's...

Chanoa Inez 4:54

Well, I love reading, and my mother took me to the library with her often so that's really really.

Caroline 4:59

That's... Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, so, when you started getting into school, were there any particular subjects that you enjoyed more than others?

Chanoa Inez 5:09

Mm. I, I mean, again, I was a big reader, big reader. I knew all the librarians, and, loved going to bookstores, but I don't think any specific topic in those early years, I just really love school and then when I, we moved to Florida it was very different, um, our, our schools were much more challenging in New York, then in Florida, I mean I always had like straight A's as a young child, but in Florida I really should've skipped three grades academically but I cannot do that emotionally, you know, so they didn't have me do that, so I would just ask, ask for extra homework for fun, honestly, because it was really It took a few years for me to, like um, and then I started taking more advanced classes so it'd be more uh, challenging, but also I had, you know, So not only were the schools more challenging in New York, but my grandmother would teach me outside of school, so would my mother. So, like, everything, like, you know, how to multiply and things like that, I always learned the summer before at home. So I was always ahead yeah, in those early years.

Caroline 6:12

What kind of, interests or passions did your grandmother have to be teaching you all of these things? Was she just a wise woman, or, like, what?

Chanoa Inez 6:21

Yeah, I guess that's just it. She is very wise, she's still with us, she's 101, she has affected many people's lives in, in great ways. she taught me to read when I was three, so I have to give her,

Caroline 6:33

That's amazing.

Chanoa Inez 6:35

A lifelong passion there.

Caroline 6:37

Outside of school, were there any particular, as you were, you know, y- and you're realizing, yeah, you, you pretty much take on well to everything, maybe 'cause reading was such a s- a strong foundation, you were able to pick up any subject.

Chanoa Inez 6:49

Mm-hmm.

Caroline 6:49

Outside of that, were there any oth- activities or things that you enjoyed more so than others?

Chanoa Inez 6:55

Elementary school, or?

Caroline 6:57

I don't know when you moved to Florida. I don't know what age that was, right? Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 7:01

So was a Girl Scout, um, I was a Daisy in the little blue uniforms, and then a Brownie and, uh I wanted to continue when I moved to Florida, but they didn't have uniforms, so I was, you know, very disappointed.

Caroline 7:16

Wait. You didn't...

Chanoa Inez 7:17

A T-shirt that reads Girl Scouts USA and khaki shorts, so actually I left. I asked for permission to stop doing Girl Scouts so when we moved there. So, um, and then I didn't play soccer either, the activities were very different. I think just how everything was set up, the convenience to my school, what my friends were also doing. You know, they were all signed up, so the parents could take turns, you know, taking us there. So my activities changed a lot when I went to, um, Florida. But I, I was lucky because my next door neighbor, she wo-, she knocked on our door early in the morning the day after we moved there and apparently she'd seen me move in and was just like a little adult. She knocked on our door by herself and she told my mother, she's like, "Uh, where's your daughter? She looks like my age, I wanna meet her." And she ended up being my best friend, And so that was nice. We had all of our, you know, adventures, and we loved, um... I was a big horror fan, oddly enough, as a child. So we would w- read all the scary books and watch, you know, all the scary movies. And some of it was just too much, my mother's like, "You can't watch that." So we'd like hide our scary books, and we'd have to take turns hiding.

Caroline 8:23

Oh, wow.

Chanoa Inez 8:24

Real Scary Stories. They just made a remake,

Caroline 8:26

Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Chanoa Inez 8:28

All that stuff. So it, it was great. But you know, riding our bikes and spending a lot of time outside still. So, a lot of activities, I would say, I, you know, outside I loved playing outside with friends. But I think I did a lot... I still did that in Florida, but I, I got to do it a lot more, um, in, in New York. I think just logistically or how everything was set up, how close my friends lived nearby.

Caroline 8:50

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 8:51

Mm-hmm.

Caroline 8:51

So what age was that transition, the moving?

Chanoa Inez 8:54

Nine.

Caroline 8:55

But so lucky for you, you meet this beautiful, amazing soul who becomes your friend, who was, uh, very brave to even come over, and that kind of set you up for success, um, with that. Now how about moving into middle school, high school? Did anything-- Did you add on or shift any other interests or, activities?

Chanoa Inez 9:13

Middle school was very complicated for me, Uh, it was just a very complicated time of my life. High school I did do like a, a morning, kinda like the, the school news. I did get to go on that for a bit, that was interesting, that was, like, super random. I think that might have only been, like, one year. I don't know if that was, like 11th grade or 12th grade. Um, but I... You know, what I wanted to do career-wise was very different, you know, in, in those times. So,

Caroline 9:40

what did you think it was gonna be?

Chanoa Inez 9:43

I don't know if it's because I watched so much X Files or whatever, you know, the Silence of the Lambs, but I wanted to be an FBI agent when I was in middle school, and then later I didn't wanna be that, but then I decided I wanted to be a doctor. There are a lot of medical professionals in my family, and so then I wanted to actually be a forensic pathologist, and that's what I wanted to be until really I started college and then I decided, oh my God, I realized I, I would be trapped... I would have to stay in South Florida for 12 years, which I did not wanna stay there for 12 years, and then also have to rely on my parents because 12 years of of college, you know, and so I came out 'cause I was, I was already living on my own, so I was in school for like six months and I was like, "I'm not doing this. I'm gonna be stuck here." But that's what I wanted to do. I, I had whole science projects and everything in, in, high school about that, and I, I still find it to be very fascinating just because it kind of combines, it... there's like detective work, you know, detective, you're finding clues on a body, there's surgery uh, the psychology that's involved with, you know, you know, if you think about like the psychology of a criminal, if it's a criminal, you know, case, which yeah, forensic pathology. So I always found that to be really fascinating, um, but that wasn't my path.

Caroline 11:00

I'm impressed that you listen to yourself, right? 'cause I, now I know there's ages and stages that there could be life or career transitions normally and naturally, right? So one of those is that 15 to 18, then around 22 to 26, then every seven to 10 years afterwards. But a lot of times people don't, especially in the younger ages, they kind of override some of their gut feelings or their intuition about something because they feel like, "Ugh, well, I have to do this because I just decided," or, "everybody's counting on me," or something of the sort. And you were starting to tune in to yourself even more so and projecting what that life could look like and taking advantage of that, "Wait, whoop, whoop. I don't think that this is something that I actually want to do. I don't think this is my path." Yet you still had these, inklings, so this adventure, this, this desire for adventure, this desire for traveling, this desire for doing other things was already starting to be present and trying to be in one place for a long period of time that you didn't necessarily choose to go to that place. You just came to that place. You're like, "Yeah, no. Not, not for me." So that's very awesome. Now then, what did you transition into after you're like, "Yeah, no, not that." And then what did you choose for that next phase?

Chanoa Inez 12:19

Uh, I took, I believe uh, one year off of school. It might have been one... A year and a half. I... then I almost didn't go back for a while, which could have been a mistake. A close friend of mine passed away in the Iraq War, in a very strange way, because it was an area where there were never attacks before. And he did contracts, you know, he was a Marine. And so he did contracts, and he was opening a photography studio. And, I was just like, don't go back there. He's like, "I just need to go one more time, get this money." And it was a crazy thing, like, guarding a diplomat and car bombing in a place where that never happened before, it was literally the first one. Um, And so I was so distraught and, um, I really was gonna take more time off, but thankfully, my um, guidance counselor at the school, I went there for a meeting, she called me and, like, begged me to come in, and, um, and just said, "Please," don't take more time off," you know? Like, "Take a little bit more time off while you're grieving, but come back." And lost a lot of friends in the Vietnam War, so she was able to relate to me. So I still thank her to this day that, she encouraged me to enroll in that next semester.

Caroline 13:28

Yeah, she met you with compassion and showed a genuine care and concern for you, and also was able to relate.

Chanoa Inez 13:35

Yeah.

Caroline 13:35

What did you end up getting your degree in then?

Chanoa Inez 13:39

Yeah. So actually, this was one of the hobbies I skipped, actually, I, I always loved fashion. And, I ended up going back to school for fashion merchandising. So I went to an arts university. And it's really funny because, you know, in high school everyone knew you c- couldn't touch my fashion magazines. If I bought a fashion magazine, no one can touch it until I've read the whole thing, and I would never even surprise myself by skipping ahead. I had to go page by page, it was like a whole ritual and then I would anotate in the margins, and add notes and things like that, things I would change or...

Caroline 14:12

Oh, nice.

Chanoa Inez 14:13

So it's really really funny because, yeah, one of my high school best friends, she wanted to study fashion merchandising, which is essentially everything in the fashion industry except for design. So you're copywriting, which I ended up going into, store planning, styling, like literally everything, merchandising, buying, s- store planning, and I didn't know what it was, and she told me in high school and I said, "What's that?" And I was like, "Okay, just interesting." And it's so interesting 'cause she ended up, doing something else, and then I ended up doing that years later. So it's a very strange, like, full circle moment, but I loved it. I really loved my school. Um- I love the creative environment. I could sit down in the computer lab and I liked it because I, I remember I didn't have a Mac at the time and I really wanted a Mac, and, uh, we had all Macs with the giant screens in our computer labs, and I would go there, and you could be sitting next to a graphic design student, next to visual arts students. So there was just the conversations that were going on there, it was so... I found it to be so, fulfilling, you know? Like, I was... There was always a creative conversation going on, there was always something inspiring happening. So I loved spending time on campus, too.

Caroline 15:21

I'm curious, the notes that you used to annotate about the things that you saw in the fashion magazine, were they about the fashion or were they about how the person was showing up? Um, like how you thought they could be presenting? Like, I'm just kind of curious because one of the things that you went into in one of the chapters is about helping people in personal branding, and of course, that's gonna be like how they're looking and showing up. So I'm just like, was that seed there then too? It must have been an earlier version of that.

Chanoa Inez 15:48

It could also just be, like, you know, it wasn't always just the fashion. So it could be an article and then I'm seeing, I don't know, a villa in Lake Como. And I'm thinking about, you know, what are the things that I like about this? What elements of this could be brought into my everyday life, the way that I'm living? So I was always just thinking about, I guess beauty always inspired me, but it was deeper than that, like art. Art culture very interesting. I would take notes about places I wanna travel to one day, and I hadn't been to any of those places. So it's really interesting because I ended up living on my own as a young adult at 19 in South Beach, and my friends were from all around the world. At that time, South Beach was a, you know, a culture. We called it a village, the people who lived there, 'cause only 23 blocks. So you know, you go to the grocery store on a rainy day and you see, like, 15 people you know, but people are from all over. You had friends who were, like, snowbirds. So I, I had friends from, you know, Canada. I had friends from across Europe, South America, you know, the Caribbean. So it was really interesting because I would have conversations with friends, and they assumed I was well traveled. And someone would ask me if I went somewhere, I was like, "I've never been there," but I just knew about it because I had read so many things. Uh, so it was very interesting. I always kind of felt like a citizen of the world even before I'd only been to, like, a few countries, so.

Caroline 17:08

So, to that point, had you been out of the US? Like, and where had you traveled?

Chanoa Inez 17:14

I went back and forth to Jamaica a lot, and I did one year in boarding school there. Um, I, my family's from there, so that's why I went back and forth so many times. Only the Bahamas up until that time as well, the UK early. Well, I was still in college, yeah.

Caroline 17:30

Interesting.

Chanoa Inez 17:30

Yeah. So not much travel then but I felt like it was so strange, I felt like I'd been everywhere. But I guess also having friends from different places, you just learn nuances about, different cultures. Yeah, it's strange because people always ask me, like where are you from? My accent wasn't like I was from Florida. I didn't had, have an accent that people would say sounds like a New Yorker. But I had friends from so many different places, you know, Germany, France, and I think this, it just became like, kind of hodgepodge, kind of like a hybrid kind of like accent to where I was like, I don't know. I would just explain, "I don't know. I know people from everywhere. I don't know what this accent is.

Caroline 18:09

That's cool.

Chanoa Inez 18:10

But

Caroline 18:11

Mine.

Chanoa Inez 18:12

Yeah,

Caroline 18:12

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 18:12

Changed later, of course, when I went to Montenegro.

Caroline 18:15

And so after you graduated, then what? Or did you do any sort of, um, internships, or did you have any initial paid jobs doing what, like, as you were growing up? Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 18:30

I love your questions. This is a fun memory lane. Um, I got to... I had to volunteer a lot to graduate, so that was fun.

Caroline 18:40

That's

Chanoa Inez 18:40

I volunteered with, one of my professors. He was a top fashion stylist. So that was fun. I got to go on the shoots. And then I volunteered a lot as a dresser which a lot of people don't know what that is. So fashion models need help getting dressed backstage, when there's a fashion show because you're on this timing schedule. And there's also prep before the fashion show because, you know, you either want to sell, the goods that they're wearing or they're gonna have to travel a lot and be used for photo shoots and other fashion shows, so they need to be in good condition. So like would get there early, and we're like putting tape on the bottom of the shoes so that they don't get ruined and things like that. You know,

Caroline 19:19

So how did Montenegro even get on your radar, and what was the draw for Montenegro?

Chanoa Inez 19:27

So, I, you know, I, since I had friends from everywhere, I had friends from that region, and I always knew, I always thought it was really, appealing. Like, I would like to visit. but then I met my boyfriend. He was from Montenegro. and, I learned so much more about everything there, the culture. And I even liked the language, and I started learning it slowly. So when I finally went on vacation, it was really amazing. It was like I didn't wanna come back. I just had su- such a, good time. So people saw the pictures and videos I shared, and they were asking me about vacation when I came back, and I literally couldn't talk about it. I was just like I don't wanna talk about it. Because it was just really difficult for me to come back. 'Cause again, the theme is I always wanted to leave. I always planned to leave Miami. I love it for vacation, but I didn't wanna live there.

Caroline 20:15

Gotcha.

Chanoa Inez 20:16

So once I went there, it was just like, "Oh, my gosh, how do I go back home?" So, my boyfriend and I agreed to the next summer, to move out, put our things in storage, see how it works with both of our businesses, stay like the whole summer as, like, a summer vacation. then after the summer, see how it goes with our businesses, see if we even wanna stay, and then go from there.

Caroline 20:37

And you had your copywriting. So you were... And you could do that from anywhere really. So that was your plan? Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 20:44

there are a lot of well-off people for sure in Montenegro. But the general, like, salary is much lower than in the US, you know? Like, for an everyday person, or say an average salary. So foreigners move there,

Caroline 20:58

Yeah

Chanoa Inez 20:58

So yeah, it w- made things much easier, like, to have the independence, to have your own money coming in and not having to, you know, get, like, a work visa and all that kind of stuff.

Caroline 21:08

That's a good point.

Chanoa Inez 21:09

Mm-hmm.

Caroline 21:10

So then what happened?

Chanoa Inez 21:12

We went there the next summer, and we had a magical day. It was the first time I got to meet his parents in person, because we didn't get to see them on our last trip. We'd had video calls from Miami. And we just had, a magical day in the capital, and then we went to the sea coast to friend's, uh, condo he gave us for the week, and it was, like, just a really perfect night. And I remember, um, up until that point in my life, it was uh, I, first time I'd felt like everything was perfect. There were no problems. Like, life was just really wonderful, and everything felt aligned. Um, and the place was huge. So uh, he asked if he could invite his parents, and I was like, "Oh, yeah, please." Um, so we called his parents and were trying to convince them to leave because the capital of Montenegro in the summer, it's like Rome. It's very, very hot and hard to breathe in the summer so they were thinking about it. And then, um, yeah, it was just beautiful. Dinner, we went to dinner. There was live music, and, um, was dancing, but of course, how Boro was, he just took my hand and we started dancing. And it was... just everything was perfect. And but unfortunately, I, I woke up in the morning, and he did not wake up, so uh, he passed away in his sleep from a clot. And, uh, you know, my life as I knew it up until that point was certainly over. It was the start of a new life.

Caroline 22:39

Yeah. Um, I can't even imagine. So You're feeling that everything is falling into place. You're in this beautiful Montenegro that you had... After you had seen it, you're like, "Ah, this is where I want to be." You have the relationship, you have the family experience, the start of your beautiful next chapter of your life, and then not. Everything...

Chanoa Inez 23:03

It was,

Caroline 23:03

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 23:04

The worse nightmare. Uh, I remember just nothing felt... You know, waking up and feeling like I was in a really, really sick nightmare. It was just so confusing and shocking and traumatizing. In contrast to, you know, people told me, "Well, look, he got to pass away in his sleep next to you." And I think that's great, and I'm grateful for that, you know? But it, it's really interesting to see that contrast because I woke up and saw him there like that. Uh, it's like the, essentially the second day of the, of our new life, you know? and I, I d- I couldn't process it well because I didn't have any tools up until that point in my life. I didn't meditate. I didn't do anything. So anything difficult I'd gone through, I just kinda like, you know, drag that with me or just like, you just keep moving forward, right?

Caroline 23:53

Oh, did you try to stuff it down or pretend like it didn't happen? I used to try to stuff, like, like what did you... Yeah, what did you do before? Like...

Chanoa Inez 24:00

no, I threw myself into the grief. It was too much. Um, everyone's trying to tell me you, you have to like, you have to, you have to like measure your emotions. You know, I didn't realize what it could do to you physically, you know, to your health. But I was just... to me, it was like my world was over. For a long time, um, you know, I can't imagine that anything like that would be easy, no matter where somebody is in their life.

Caroline 24:27

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 24:30

I-- it was really a dark period for me, very dark. Um, and I remember there was like a long time that was kind of scary 'cause there were like six months at least where everything that used to scare me, it didn't scare me anymore. And I was like,

Caroline 24:45

Mm.

Chanoa Inez 24:46

'cause I just real- I just felt numb. I was just like, I really didn't care. And I mean, when... Yeah, the, like the funeral was so hard. I remember thinking like they're taking the casket down, and I was thinking I wanted to just go in there with him. I was just done. It w- it was really hard. He was my best friend. Um, we did everything together, um, I was just too young. You know, in your 20s you have no-- nobody's telling you your partner might pass away, you know? Somebody much older might think that could happen

Caroline 25:18

Right.

Chanoa Inez 25:20

someday, might have heard of that happening to a friend. And he was older than me, but still young, and healthy, and vibrant, and had a lot more energy than me, and it was just... I just, you know, it was blindsiding and, and so I think I was really in shock for a long time.

Caroline 25:36

Were there any words that people tried to tell you that were actually helpful, or any word- I always wonder, right? 'Cause like,

Chanoa Inez 25:43

There were a

Caroline 25:43

like,

Chanoa Inez 25:44

not

Caroline 25:44

well,

Chanoa Inez 25:45

for

Caroline 25:45

Whenever somebody passes on, it always seems very unexpected, right? It's just like, "Wait, wait, I didn't realize it was gonna be today," or not. and yet also, as a friend or a family member or somebody who loves somebody who's ex- who then experiences such a grief lo- a, a grief or a great loss, it's like, I don't know what to do to help. I don't know that I can help. I don't know what to say. I don't know what not to say. I don't, I don't know. Everything is wrong. Nothing makes sense. How can I even be there or show compassion? But like, how could somebody have even been there or shown compassion for you in a way that was actually help... Are there any words that could even be helpful from any... Like, I don't understand what to do.

Chanoa Inez 26:36

Oof. Um, I don't, I don't remember words, but I do really remember, like, the support of his family. I spent a lot of time with his parents that summer. I decided to stay in Europe. Um, sister, who was already a close friend of mine, and, um, still is, she's like family to me, she came there, of course. She flew there from Florida and, um, her daughter. And I don't remember any words, but I just remember that support and also that we all were grieving him differently. We all have a different experience of having him in our lives, right?

Caroline 27:21

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 27:21

It meant something different to all of us. But we all felt that loss and, uh, and being-- and having each other. I, I would just say it's more like an energy thing and spending

Caroline 27:31

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 27:32

Yeah.

Caroline 27:33

Why did you choose to stay? Was it even not a choice? Like, you just needed to still be there

Chanoa Inez 27:40

and, uh, you know, I just really was not happy living in, in Miami. I thought to go back now, and then there's gonna be so many people who don't even know that he's passed away. I'm gonna be bumping into people all the time asking me about him. gonna be running errands and thinking about him. It was different thinking about him in Montenegro, you know? We hadn't, like, established our daily routines there. It was a very different energy. It was more like, this is his home country. It was just very different, you know? The other one would be like, I'm grieving. Everything reminds me of him, you know, I'm gonna keep bumping into people with questions. And because I was so ready to leave there, so I thought the, to gri- grieving is hard enough, but then to be somewhere you don't wanna live, and that's just like a whole other animal. Um, and, you know, I've gotten closer with my family now, but I didn't need that... You know, I wasn't... Our relationship wasn't such that I needed their support to go back there. That was not gonna be the thing for me. So I, I needed to be somewhere where I was happiest, and I think it really helped, you know, being in Montenegro, s- being exposed to nature so much, spending so much time in nature every single day. That was, very helpful. It was still a very super challenging time for me, but I know that really helped a lot.

Caroline 28:59

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 28:59

at the beach, going, you know, walks in the forest, you know, and things like that. Um, and then I got to do all of the traditions 'cause he was Orthodox Christian. I ended up, um, converting later, but, to the same religion. We used to go to church a lot and do a lot of things at his church in Miami, so the traditions are like there's a funeral, and then there's like three days after that there's another gathering, and then there's 40 days later there's a gathering. So all those things that I would have missed had I gone back to... I mean, I would have done the three-day, but I would have missed like

Caroline 29:32

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 29:35

I'd been in the US. So I was really happy that I stayed, and I just felt right 'cause, you know, my life ended. You know, say the Mayan calendar was right. My life did end in 2012. That was a new life that started after he passed away. So it was like, I think it was also an easier decision 'cause like, well, when everything is completely gone, I was just now, you know, and now I'm just starting up, It was easier to make that my base.

Caroline 29:59

Tell me more about this Mayan calendar 2012. What was that?

Chanoa Inez 30:03

Did you... you didn't hear about that?

Caroline 30:04

I think I did, but then I forgot. But, like, remind me now, 'cause I'm like, "Wait a minute, why is this ringing a bell?"

Chanoa Inez 30:09

Yeah. So well, there's like... I know you remember the Y2K thing everyone talked about.

Caroline 30:13

Totally. Yes.

Chanoa Inez 30:14

Happened, and we're like, "Oh, nothing happened. Everything's fine." Well, the Mayan calendar, people kept talking about in 2012 about how the world-- Mayan calendar ends in 2012, so that's the end of the world. And it's really crazy 'cause I'm like, actually, it did happen for me, and I actually have a lot of friends who also had life-changing, paradigm-shifting events happen in their life that year. So that's very interesting. I don't normally like ascribe to those kinds of

Caroline 30:43

Yeah. But then it's like...

Chanoa Inez 30:44

but see that parallel there, really.

Caroline 30:47

So then how did you start, um, gaining some of these tools that you now know are so transformative and helpful? And then how did you, how did you move forward or how did you start gaining some of these things that you now know are helpful?

Chanoa Inez 31:04

Ah,

Caroline 31:04

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 31:05

Yes.

Caroline 31:05

Okay.

Chanoa Inez 31:06

The community was just in the summer, and then, Against my I had this thing I wanted to stay in Montenegro, but I, I took the advice of friends, which ended up being incorrect in hindsight, to move to Belgrade. I ended up spending the first two years half in Belgrade and then half in Montenegro. So mostly spring and, uh, uh, winter in Belgrade because Montenegro is very seasonal, and so they thought, like, "Oh, you're gonna be so bored the off season. It's this and that. But it was actually, in hindsight, I should have lived there the whole year. Um, I don't mind the quiet and, but Belgrade was just kind of... It was a lot for, for-- to be there and grieving and, you know,

Caroline 31:48

Mm-hmm.

Chanoa Inez 31:48

Just the basic fact of having less sunlight during the winter. And when I moved there, my biggest client was headquartered between somewhere in Michigan and somewhere in China, so I would be on Zoom until almost 2:00 in the morning, go to sleep.

Caroline 32:02

Oh, wow.

Chanoa Inez 32:03

Realize I'd missed all the sun, just, like, order food.

Caroline 32:06

Oh.

Chanoa Inez 32:06

and so I think that also sped up the health issues I started having. I just started, um... My body just started getting sick all the time, and I could see I lost vitality. And then, uh, about two years in, thankfully, in hindsight, I started getting all of these food allergies and... One after the other. after the other. Like, I'm saying like weeks apart. I could eat anything and not read it, you know, before." In hindsight, it's great because my body... I had all this unprocessed grief. I thought after the first two years, like any stress I had had to do with what was happening in my life then. But I didn't realize I was carrying all of that weight 'cause I never really did process it out Right. I felt it so intensely, and then I just kinda just kept going forward. So, um, because of those health issues, I started... It was nothing a doctor could help me with. A doctor... You know, yes, somebody can go to an allergist and maybe if they're lucky, you know, they're taking those treatments, maybe after a few years maybe they'll, uh, their allergy might go away or decrease. So,

Caroline 33:11

Oh, wow.

Chanoa Inez 33:11

I was learning things. I knew able to manage stress better, but I also knew there was no reason why I shouldn't be able to completely be healthy again. It took me a long time to get there. I tried everything. I mean, I flew to the Amazon for a plant medicine retreat, the shaman told me, "You'd have to come back here, like, 20 times to be healed." And it was not, Like, it was a place that didn't advertise. It was only word of mouth, so it's not even like they were just trying to, like, collect money, you know? Um- And I really think if that's the path I took, it really, now I see in hindsight it would've taken me that long. So what really happened as a turning point was I started missing the US after almost seven years of living in the Balkans. And LA kept popping up synchronis- synchronistically for me. So, a friend who's from Montenegro who lived here for a long time, she lived in both places. So she asked me if I wanted to come visit 'cause, um, I got married, got a divorce, and she was like, "Well, you don't have to be here." She's like, "Why... And you work from, you know, you work for yourself. Just come visit me." So I went to visit her, and it was just to kind of scout to see if I wanted to move here. But, as soon as I got off the plane, I was mostly like, "Okay, yeah. You know? It just felt very like, yeah, it was not at all complicated. So I moved here pretty quickly, and, uh, that's when a lot of things changed for me. Suddenly, I still had the food allergies at that time, the food sensitivities, almost all of them went away. I could suddenly... Yeah, and I was on a, like, a vegan diet, like, forever. I was doing everything 'cause, like, my body just was feeling like it was... It needed as little pressure as possible 'cause everything was something. So I could finally start eating meat again, and I was like, "Oh, my God." I had so much more energy, you know? That helped. And in hindsight, I s- like, you know, later on I would realize just because I came out of my environment. Every day I was seeing the same people. I was going the same places. So I was wearing that identity, and I would always think about... You know, when you're having health problems, it's really hard. One of the hardest ways to he- challenges, like, blocks to healing is that it becomes your identity. And so I saw myself, like, as, like, I was saying, you know, I was a person who would feel like that and that and that, and if, you know, I'd sit at a restaurant and I'd have to give them, like, a litany of

Caroline 35:45

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 35:46

It was always top of mind. so yeah, yeah, it's just things started changing. A lot of things changed in my life. And, I've, I continue that journey, meditation and, and everything, and about... It was now a decade since I'd been meditating, and I started doing a much more advanced form of meditation. Oh, um, I'm skipping something, sorry. Right before that. So shortly before I started doing that, I ended, ended a romantic relationship in LA that was, It was just a very, it was a very difficult re- relationship." ending. And, a very good friend of mine... So the two people I spent the most time with was that person I was in a relationship with, and then a friend of mine. And the friend she kept saying how terrible it was, you know, how it ended and everything, and, you know, kinda like just pointing a finger at this person. And I... It was funny 'cause I went to sleep, and I woke up the next day and I thought, "Oh my gosh, that friendship has the same exact dynamics as that romantic relationship." So I told that, friend and that she had to change or we're not gonna be friends anymore. Um, and she said she couldn't change 'cause she had too many things happening in her life.

Caroline 36:51

Oh, so now you have, like, another loss.

Chanoa Inez 36:53

Another loss right after. But it was so freeing because I started seeing everything so clearly, and I finally understood the concept of self-love. Because I thought I understood it, but it was very cerebral

Caroline 37:03

Oh,

Chanoa Inez 37:03

I didn't get it because I thought, you know, it... Self-love, it, it comes through in our actions, and I thought "How could my best friend and my boyfriend be people with like..." These dynamics were just terrible. And then I realized I picked them I had a victim mindset, so I needed to be around people who would treat me like I as a victim. You know?

Caroline 37:24

Interesting. Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 37:26

Gosh, it was like, how did I not see this all these years? And then I realized I'd had a lot- victim mindset since I was a child. And then when Bodo passed away, it was definitely a why me situation. I was so angry, like, "How could this happen to us? Why did this happen to us?" I was angry at life, you know? And, um, it was so freeing, though. It was jarring 'cause like how did I not see it all these years and working so hard to see it? Um, so I started doing, um... I found out about this more advanced form of meditation, and I basically made it my full-time job to do work on inner work, personal transformation, outside of my business. And I'm saying sometimes even four hours a day of meditation and I'm seeing

Caroline 38:06

Wow!

Chanoa Inez 38:08

all these patterns and insights. It really felt like I've been working on this so long, and if I don't figure it out now, I don't know what's gonna happen. It just felt like this strange urgency. And it was, wonderful. And then I got to a point in my life where I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, everything is just wonderful you know, my health, I reversed every food allergy except for one, and that one's weaker now. I can kind of eat something here and there and don't have to take anything, so I know that one's gonna go away. And, many other things. There were like chronic ovarian cysts. There were a five-year bout of tendonitis I stopped treating and then it went away. I was just,

Caroline 38:43

Wow.

Chanoa Inez 38:44

Yeah, it's just wild. And, so my life completely just turned around, and I got home one day and I realized, oh, I only just stepped out of that cloud of grief. All this time, that was the grief I was carrying. And then my next thought was I have to write a book because nobody should have to... It doesn't have to take that long. We certainly need time to grieve, but a lot of people, get stuck, and that's what happened to me. I didn't realize that in the transition between the early days of grief, moving forward, I, I didn't see the subtle signs, and so I started shrinking back. I, my dreams became smaller, and I internalized a lot of the pain, then manifested into those health issues, and it affected every area of my business, o- of my life, including my business, because, you know, trying to negotiate when your confidence is shot. You know, your self worth is shot, it's like, it's a whole thing. And, that's how I ended up writing my book. And then, writing my book, it was just like, except for the editing process, it was just like, it just flowed through me, because it's really this whole, everything I went through, everything I learned, it, it just came through. And I realized, there's this roadmap. We can't avoid pain, and it's not healthy to do so, but there's no reason for us to, um, you know, no matter what happens, we can always come back from it. And, uh, you know, it's really important to know that we can reinvent ourselves no matter what.

Caroline 40:21

Now, I'm curious through all of this, um, all of this turmoil, all of this 10 years, and you were writing, you know, for others, you know, as part of your business for helping their businesses. Were you writing about your own personal experience? Like, did you k- did you keep a journal, like, your whole life or, or, or did you, did you write little quips about yourself or you were... or did you separate and you were writing about some place or something else but not your own experience?

Chanoa Inez 40:49

I wrote for clients, so except for like, you know, maybe some LinkedIn content, I didn't really write about myself. I had a friend who was urging me to write a book after Bodo passed away, and I'm so happy I didn't because it would've been a very different book, a, a very dark book. You know, the world seemed so bleak to me at that time. Um,

Caroline 41:08

I wrote some poetry

Chanoa Inez 41:09

during that time, and, it's just like the darkest thing.

Caroline 41:13

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 41:15

I really was just so distraught and, and angry about life.

Caroline 41:20

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 41:25

So I'm happy that I didn't share that with the world, I shared that with people in my close circles. But that's not the message, and it's okay that I was so, you know,

Caroline 41:32

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 41:32

My optimism, like, was, you know, turned completely inside out certainly during that, that time. It's okay, but I'm glad I didn't write a book during that time because I would've been writing from a lim- very limited perspective. And, you know, I, I was still in it, and, it would've been so filled with pain, and I don't think that would've been a u- useful tool to have brought out into the world. Not even a tool. I think it could be dangerous to, you know, kind of encouraging people to throw themselves into grief or pessimism, let's say.

Caroline 42:03

And so the book that you did write, it's very optimistic. I've listened to it. It's amazing. And it's not, like, so huge that it seems impossible to get through. I feel like it's a nice, reasonable, helpful, like, wait, wait, this is approachable. I think I can do this. I think I could listen to this chapter while on a walk, or I can read a chapter in a day, and I could get through this in a couple days. But it's the type of book that there's some prompts that you give for people to kind of think about and to kind of go back to their... The book is Dream On, and to keep dreaming and imagining what they want to be able to do, and it takes time, right? So I feel like it's not just a one-time read. It's a read it, go back, do it, go back, do it some more, because I feel like each... each iteration is gonna be a deeper, maybe more meaningful, experience. Was that your intention?

Chanoa Inez 42:52

Yeah, it's not meant to be intimidating, and, I, I really wanted it to be able to resonate with as many people as possible because we all deal with loss. We all deal with setbacks, and it doesn't have to be the, the loss of a loved one. It can be, you know, a, business closing. It can be getting into your dream school, you know, you've been

Caroline 43:14

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 43:15

striving for for years. It can be layoffs, you know? And so it's really designed to be, you know, obviously, my story is in the beginning, and that is difficult, a difficult story, but it's a really uplifting read. It's designed to be kind of, a little fast-paced in that

Caroline 43:32

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 43:34

this journey about coming back from feeling, uh... spending time in those difficult feelings, whatever's happening. You're not trying to, like, blow past your feelings or, or sweep it under the rug. But then you are, to kind of sum up that whole path, it's like you're enriching your relationship with yourself getting that foundation solid, and then you're getting to the point where you're feeling strong enough, confident enough, and energized, where you can now start to dream big again, and you are now going to... you know, you're in a place where you can start feeling excited about what comes next. And, you know, that doesn't mean that you don't... You know, obviously I'm not, uh... You know, I, I don't feel like I'm in grief, but I'm still always going to grieve Bodo, right? So it's not about, like, you know, you're not... You you can still honor the past and move forward. And then what you also start to realize, like, In the case of a loss of a loved one, you start to realize like they, they would've been thinking how, what took you so long? What took you so long? Why were you living in limbo for so long? Like, you know, they want you to be happy

Caroline 44:43

but Yeah. the last chapter is the longest chapter and the funnest chapter Dreaming On where you're learning how to dream big Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 45:15

and the exercises are also designed to be very approachable.

Caroline 45:20

I wholeheartedly agree, and I absolutely thoroughly enjoyed, going through that. So thank you for giving me the opportunity and for putting that out into the world. I think it's definitely gonna be one of the resources that I recommend as kind of complementary for some of the people that, that work with me because it approaches, in a different, it-- yeah, a complementary way to the l- a lot of the things. I'm trying to fi- help people sometimes understand, like, from an assessment-driven, like, an objective performance-based measurement, like, what are your abilities and this and that, and, and yeah, let's come up with a vision for your life. And, you know, there could be still some things that, that need a bit of healing or need a bit of exploration and dreaming beyond some of the foundational things that I have. And so I'm, I'm very happy that there's a- another resource that I could a- you know, add to and help share the work that you've done, the transformations that you've had personally, and that I know you've helped so, so many others who've read your book or worked with you. So how do people work with you if they want to at this point? Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 46:18

thank you for the kind words and the support. Um, yeah, so, uh, shortly after I finished my manuscript, I was thinking about how everyone keeps talking about the importance of having a personal brand, and that's definitely true, especially since we're, so much of the, the work that so many of us do is online. But, um, the focus is usually on the external considerations, and they play a role certainly. What does your website look like, your social feed, and things like that. But the most important aspect is actually who you are. And I realize that because, you know, the time when I was gonna make my full time is when I was in the early days of grief. So those fir-first few months off, but I was-- it was still very

Caroline 47:03

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 47:04

so I combined my, some principles from my book, Dream On, and then my lived experience and also my copywriting, um, and messaging strategy background to help business owners, develop themselves from the inside out. So that looks like, um, You know, my definition of a personal brand is the essence of who you are and how that essence is perceived. So it's working on all of that inner work, and then how you engage with yourself and others. And then we get into the more classic things like communication, uh, positioning, and messaging. And it's really important because whether that's like, you know, business owners who are afraid to be more visible and they know they need to be more visible for their businesses, or if they've reached a plateau and they realize, "It's not really anything I'm doing." "I know it's something about me." Um, it's really important because I think also it's very empowering, you know, expanding our networks, getting better opportunities. That all starts with who we are and how we're showing up in the world. of people are showing up as this kind of avatar of whoever that, most successful person is in their field. They're just kind of mimicking what they're doing. They're speaking like them. They're posting like them. They're putting on this m-mask that they don't wanna wear. They're terrified when they have calls with clients or when they, um, have presentations, you know, on Zoom because they are, um, they're putting on this role. So it's actually, it's like physically exhausting. And they don't realize that they would get much further and resonate with people on a much deeper level if they actually showed up themselves, and, that's really where a lot of this magic happens. Um, or even like, you know, I gave myself example, like negotiating better, you know, having better boundaries with clients and things like that, you know. The client issues I had when I first started my copywriting business, haven't had those challenges in so many years. Like, they're just unheard of. I love all of my clients. I love... You know, it just doesn't happen. But we attract what we are, in our, in our lives, and we, if we're not feeling solid, if we're not feeling sure about ourselves and our purpose, um, we accept opportunities that are a bad fit, um, and just 'cause we're like afraid. We're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't know what my revenue's gonna be next quarter. Let me take this opportunity, even though this client doesn't respect me, or even though this is not really what I wanna do." And so it's really freeing when we realize that, so much of, what it takes to be successful is in our hands, even in this world that has so many unknowns and so many things that are outside of our control.

Caroline 49:42

Awesome. So to find you is the best place, LinkedIn, your website,

Chanoa Inez 49:46

I'm mostly most active on LinkedIn and my website, you can find everything there, my book and my programs, ChanoaInez.com

Caroline 49:55

Awesome. And now from this vantage point, how do you define authentic success for yourself?

Chanoa Inez 50:02

Ooh.

Caroline 50:03

Mm-hmm.

Chanoa Inez 50:03

Authentic success is, success that aligns with my purpose and my values, but also my passion. I, I can't just check those boxes. as a... it... doesn't make me feel good, and is it really in line with the life that I wanna live? And I just wanna make a note on values, because a lot of us mention values, but then we don't actually know what all of our values are.

Caroline 50:28

Yeah.

Chanoa Inez 50:28

all of your listeners to go home and write those down and keep them handy,

Caroline 50:33

Yes.

Chanoa Inez 50:34

everything through that list.

Caroline 50:37

Thank you so very much for all of your time, for sharing more of your backstory, your transformational stories, and this beautiful book, and the ways that you just really bring your joy, your light, your transformation to the world, and make others also believe that it can be possible. So thank you so very much.

Chanoa Inez 50:54

Thank you so much, Caroline. I appreciate it.

Speaker 50:56

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.