Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 0:00

going and spacing my team of 50-ish people telling them something I didn't believe in was making me physically sick. And it was just time to go. I had started building my business on the side, a coaching business for four years and had never intended to make that my full-time job. I had always intended that it was going to be fun. It was something I loved doing coaching. Women, sometimes college students, occasionally a man that's like, Hey, I really need help with this thing. It was the thing that I did so that it wasn't all about politics and other people's way of doing things. And I thought, you know, I'm just gonna build it. And I realized one day well, I woke up, I was like, "I've built a business. Why am I putting up with this crap? Like, what am I doing? And I told my husband, I said, you know. I'm gonna give notice in March of 2020 after my stock options best and I get my bonus. I know you're laughing because we all know what happened in March of 2020. I was like, really?

Speaker 1:00

What happens when you've been doing the work above your title for years, and the thing that finally cracks you open is the realization that you've already built your way out? Tabatha Jones answers that question, and she does it in a way that might make you look at what you've been explaining away for a lot longer than you realized. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give the Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. This conversation is about what it actually looks like to build before you leave, and what your body has been trying to tell you that you've been explaining away as something else entirely. Tabatha Jones invested more than 20 years inside corporate America, rising to executive director at Comcast through four mergers and more reorgs than she can count. She learned self-advocacy the hard way, a decade into doing director-level work before she ever asked for the title to match. When she finally did ask, she got a 19% raise and brought along every woman around her with her. She also built her exit in the margins of all of it, one hour a day for four years before she ever gave notice. Well, now today she is the Corporate Escape Sherpa, and I am really glad she's here. Let's listen in to our conversation.

Caroline 3:33

Tabatha Jones, welcome to Your Next Success. I'm super excited for our conversation.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 3:40

Oh, me too. Caroline. Thank you for having me here.

Caroline 3:42

We're gonna get to all of the amazing work that you do today. You're known as the Corporate Escape Sherpa. You work with so many people, middle-aged women and sometimes college students to kind of help them sort out what it is that they'd love to do or whether they're gonna build a business. You have lots of tools and things for that. So we will get to all of that, and I'd love to kind of dial it way back to the beginning of your story. Can you help us understand where were you born? What was life like for the very youngest Tabatha?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 4:15

Well, I was born in Port Hueneme, California in the naval base hospital. My dad was in the Navy and, is kind of where I started. I don't remember a ton about early childhood. I would say my one memory when I think back, it's probably when I was about two and a half, three years old and making mud pies in the backyard with my great-grandmother.

Caroline 4:36

nice.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 4:37

they were immigrants from Denmark on that side of the family her thing was just this big beautiful swing set that she had sewn these gorgeous pillow covers for me, and put on there. So they were super fluffy. So we would build mud pies and then sprinkle off in the sprinklers and then hop in the swing. And she would just talk to me while we swing back and forth I would say those times were a little easier. Then kind of fast forwarding a little bit, my parents divorced and my dad kind of moved on into his own life. And I didn't see him for the next 30 years of my life, which was kind of interesting. Um, But in the meantime, my mom remarried, her second husband legally adopted me, and we moved out to, the East Bay area out here in California, outside of San Francisco. And I was about seven at that time. And we moved to a town called Livermore and everyone thought it was the edge of the world, like nobody lived there. It's a farming community, there's nothing there. But it was also the beginning of a huge construction boom and growth. So I grew up mostly in Livermore from seven to 18.

Caroline 5:43

Oh, wow.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 5:43

of my memories are there.

Caroline 5:45

Did you end up having siblings as well?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 5:48

I did. So my mom and her second husband had a brother and sister for me. Actually sister and brother if we go in the right order. So I have my middle siblings. they actually divorced when I was about 12. She remarried and had my baby sister who is my favorite human on earth. So, Yeah, such a good, interesting family story I guess.

Caroline 6:14

In that, you learned you could, make some significant changes and still end up having a happy chapter. And maybe, maybe it wasn't the forever chapter, but it still, I think it speaks a lot to resilience, to change, to kind of starting over, building new, and being open to new relationships, and, and love however it comes.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 6:34

Yeah.

Caroline 6:34

could be a both and world, right? So,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 6:36

Absolutely.

Caroline 6:38

now do you recall, were there any particular activities inside or outside of school that you enjoyed more than others?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 6:48

Oof. I was probably a little bit of a nerd. I didn't have a real solid friend group. I hung out with all different people all through school I tend to get along with almost anybody. I love people. I love learning from people. Anyone who is a different religion or different ethnicity, I just want to know more. I'm like a sponge when it comes to those types of things. And I would say, class-wise, I always loved anything that had to do with reading or history. English, math and science were never my jam. There's parts of science that I love. I love money, but math and numbers are not really my things. So those weren't my, high points. And then I would say outside of school, I wasn't really the sports kid. I tended to do more reading, for an extrovert. I was pretty introverted when I was younger, you know, I liked hanging out and socializing, but I also really cherished my downtime and reading anything I could get my hands on. I might have been called mouthy by my mom. So I spent a lot of time being on restriction or grounded, I think the kids call it now.

Caroline 7:48

Oh my gosh. Uh, yes. middle school and high school kind of came along, I started strategically planning what would be really cool to have in a dorm room. So it's like one year I asked for a tiny TV, and another year I asked for a stereo, and of course, I asked for a nice alarm clock. And then as I got mouthier or mouthier, those things would like slowly get pulled out Like the regular restriction wasn't enough. It was then, "Now we're taking this, and now we're taking that." And one day I said, "Well, you might as well just take the light bulb too." And they did.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 8:22

that is

Caroline 8:22

So yeah. Right there with you, girl.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 8:26

Oh.

Caroline 8:26

across the, several states away.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 8:29

Yeah,

Caroline 8:29

Yeah. So you probably never lost your light bulb, but it was all my doing because I'd be like, "Oh yeah? Well, that... How about da, da, da, da, da, da? Well, while you're at it."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 8:38

that is funny. Well, I have the gift of sarcasm, so whatever I said was generally very sarcastic. And so what I would do, because I love to read, is I'd be like, all right, send me to my room And I'd sit down, I read an entire set of encyclopedias. Not once, but twice. That's how much time I spent in my room. I read the dictionary. Even to this day, my friends were like, how do you know that? I'm like, girl, have you ever read the encyclopedia? It's right in there. You don't even need the Google. And so one time my mom got super smart and she grounded me with no books. And I was like,

Caroline 9:10

Oh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 9:10

shoot." Now what do

Caroline 9:12

So then what'd you do, right?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 9:14

I did a lot of house cleaning yard work and weed pulling and dog grooming.

Caroline 9:21

Oh, Gosh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 9:22

Yes.

Caroline 9:23

funny.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 9:23

super funny because it takes me back even just thinking about in class. I always had a book because I was the one that finished my work quickly, unless it was math or science. I was always the one that was too talkative. So I had a teacher, oh my gosh, Mr. Kapoor, I loved him. but it was history in maybe 11th grade. He would literally move everybody away from me. He would slide desks away from me, so I was all by myself, and then he'd just send me on an assignment and he's like, go to the office. Go handle this. Okay.

Caroline 9:51

I had that, you know, like the poster board for like science fair, like the three kind of pronged cardboard thing.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 9:57

Yes.

Caroline 9:58

I had some teachers that would just like put one on my desk, and I'm like, "What?" Like, now, I didn't know at that time, it took me several decades and a couple children later to realize when one time somebody said, uh, "Have you ever... Did anybody ever tell you you're neurodivergent?" And I'm like, "No, but that sure would make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 10:22

Yeah.

Caroline 10:22

I'm pretty sure." And I was like, "Oh, interesting. Oh."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 10:27

my gosh. Now that all these things are coming out, I've thought myself, I'm like, "Maybe I need to go get checked because I do feel like in some ways, I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of aligned with a lot of what I've been reading." Wasn't in the encyclopedias back then or I would have self-diagnosed.

Caroline 10:40

of course they weren't. and if it was, it was only boys, and they would get some like Ritalin or something, and then that was it.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 10:45

Yeah.

Caroline 10:46

But yeah, that's interesting. Okay, funny. Okay, I knew we were aligned in some ways. I didn't know that we also shared, uh, restriction and being, slightly isolated in a classroom to not be bothering other people or something.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 11:00

the way back. All the way back. I did not, um, enjoy a lot of physical activity. I was not into PE though. I did take badminton my senior year because I needed one more class.

Caroline 11:11

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 11:11

but I had a teacher in PE and I hated to run. So anytime we had to run, I'd be like, oh, I can't, I got cramps, I just got cramps. They're so bad. The flow and as soon as you say the flow, men just kind of shut down back then. So I spent most of the time being a TA in PE and then years later I find out. He was friends with my stepfather, and so my mom's like, oh yeah, we had this great conversation with Mr. Minkler. And I'm like, how do you know Mr. Minkler? And he's like, well, apparently you had a really bad period problem in high school. I'm like, really? Did I know Oh, yeah.

Caroline 11:46

problem solving. Some of that may have been partially true. Other times may have just been I didn't feel like whatever thing he was trying to do.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 11:56

are we running? There's no need to run. Nobody's chasing me.

Caroline 12:00

I have said that, the exact phrase as well. fun. Okay. So now as it kind of comes towards the end of high school, like, how did you decide what you wanted to do next?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 12:14

So end of high school. So I was out at 18, disagreement at home, and, uh, so I was out on my own, and I had to have a job, of course, which I had gotten a job at AT&T long distance, my first job out of high school, first job that was not babysitting, and it was actually kind of fun working in the call center, having a big girl job, supporting myself. So, uh, I did not go to college right away. I took a class here and a class there, and just started building my career. So I started moving up a little bit at AT&T, and then Oh, my gosh, I got married at 20, I went through a layoff at 20, 20 was kind of a pivotal year. And then I landed at a small company called Faraday, which did credit card embossing and encoding. And to make extra money, I worked two jobs there. So I had a job as an account manager, and then at night, I would go work in the embossing and encoding area embossing and encoding credit cards.

Caroline 13:07

Oh, interesting. Now...

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 13:09

I know the owner of the company's like, I don't think we can legally do this. I was like, you can't. I won't tell anybody.

Caroline 13:15

I wanna ask a little bit about the, layoff at 20. Did you even know layoffs were a thing? I don't know that I knew layoffs were at and then how was that communicated? What did you do? Did they give any sort of severance, like, at 20? How'd that go down? Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 13:30

It wasn't much severance, so there's that. I knew that companies were reorging. I just didn't realize it could happen to anybody.

Caroline 13:36

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 13:36

and I actually had kind of a cushy job at the time. I had moved into a department that dealt with. T1 Line Emergency. So basically if somebody was digging something with a backhoe and they cut through one of the big giant cable lines and it took everybody down, I was the emergency response person that was dealing with the calls and letting them

Caroline 13:54

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 13:55

and checking all that stuff. unless someone was digging up a line with a backhoe, there really wasn't anything to do. So my friend Dawn and I would sit there and we would do crafts at our desk, like we had our hot glue guns

Caroline 14:06

awesome.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 14:07

I think back, I'm like, well, in hindsight they probably didn't need us for a really long time. But what happened with that layoff is we were given an option of you can take a relocation package so you can relocate to St. Louis, Missouri, or I think Atlanta, Georgia was the other option. And I'm in California, I've always been in California, or you can take a package and the severance package was maybe three or four weeks pay. It wasn't much. And I was like, well. I guess I'll go try St. Louis and see. So the deal was you can go for two weeks, get the feel of it, see what you think, and then come back and make your decision. I went and God loved the people in St. Louis. They're very nice people. I am not made for cold weather and it was cold and snowy and the security guard's like, you don't have a car, you're gonna walk from here. I said, well, they didn't give me a car. I guess I can't rent a car. I gotta walk. He said, well, I'm gonna watch you walk to the corner, then I'm gonna radio the next security guard to watch for you out that door, and then I need you to get there and run to your hotel. I'm like, where am I? is happening? So needless to say that did not work out. There were a lot of other things that just culturally weren't aligned for me there. And so I

Caroline 15:15

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 15:16

When I came back I was told, oh, well you didn't accept it. So you don't have a job and there's no severance. And I was like, wait, what? So the person who was in charge of the reorg in our department did not lay out the fine print piece. I had never signed anything. There was no clear discussion. But because I did not accept a job that was offered, I basically was self-terminating.

Caroline 15:39

Oh, wow.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 15:41

It was wild. You know, it's funny, I haven't thought about it in years, but

Caroline 15:43

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 15:44

back to it, I was like, I probably could have bought that had I known or had the experience to do it. But anyway, so that just led to the next thing, where I worked for that smaller company and, got to know the ins and outs of working for a small company. It was interesting. So on top of credit cards, we also did ATM cards, and then we would mail the pins three days later. Like it was a

Caroline 16:02

Oh, yes. Back at the... does that still happen? I don't even know how it happens. Like,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 16:06

And

Caroline 16:07

right?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 16:07

So wild. And so this happened while somebody was getting the pin number and the card and stealing them and using them before they ever got to the customer. So the customer's getting their, their like, where's my stuff and why is my bank account already being hit by a card I don't have? And that was my first experience with a lie detector test because the entire company had to do a line detector to find

Caroline 16:30

Wow. Who was the person? Wow, interesting.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 16:34

It ended up being the mail carrier. It was the big mail truck driver that came. They figured out our, our system that we would mail the cards and three days later the pins would go. So they would pull the, for the right bank or whatever it was, and they were the ones

Caroline 16:49

Yeah. Wow, wow. Okay. And also around, you said around age 20 you had this life change where you got married as well. How, how, like,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 16:59

who

Caroline 16:59

a,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:00

wasn't? who wouldn't?

Caroline 17:01

Just I guess why not? Did the marriage happen before or after the layoff and the new problem and the lie detector test?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:10

It happened before the layoff and before the lie detector. I

Caroline 17:13

Oh, wow.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:13

him up to a lie detector actually, in hindsight. But, yes. So he was

Caroline 17:19

Things we learn.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:20

when I moved out. It's just a natural thing, right. I'm mature, I'm ready, let's get married and what a terrible idea. But I did get a fabulous son out of it when I was, 24. So we divorced while I was pregnant.

Caroline 17:33

Oh. wow.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:34

Yeah.

Caroline 17:34

hey, you didn't have to worry about competing parenting styles, in those early days.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:39

Didn't

Caroline 17:39

All right. So now at 24, you also now become a mom. How did that, influence your career, what you wanted to do, what you needed to do in that moment? How was that?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 17:53

Oh my gosh, so a lot of things happened in between those years, but I had taken a job at Viacom Cable, which was before Comcast was the big cable company out here. Viacom was the cable company in California, and was working in the call center and then I moved to credit and collections, and then I had a baby. And I was like, I'm not going back to work. I'm going to get licensed to do daycare, and I'm going to do daycare and I'm going to stay home with my baby." Not all of us are cut out for that. Not all of us are saints on earth that can handle OPC, other people's children. no.

Caroline 18:27

Right, It sounds like such a great idea.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 18:30

Oh, so glorious hanging out with your baby all day I was like, "God bless the people that do it." I lasted two weeks, thank God I hadn't given notice, so I was still on maternity leave, had done the whole process, fingerprinting, licensed, had my first kid, and, that little cute two-year-old wiped his runny nose on something, and I was like, "Ew, kids have germs." And then the next day I bent down to tie his shoe and he reached up and, like, ripped the top of my hair. I was like, "That's it. I called my mom who did daycare at the time. I was like, do you have an opening? And she said, yes. I said, great. I'm giving these people notice today and letting them know that you have an opening and giving them your number. And then I called my old boss and I said, here's the deal. I want to come back, but I don't want to come back in that job. What can you do for me? And he said, well, we've got a spot right here for you in the credit and collections department. You can work directly for me and let's see where that goes. And I was like, all right,

Caroline 19:19

That's nice.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 19:20

Like, I had been in the call center, so one calls the cable company to say, Hey, you're doing a great job. Oh my God, I love my television channels. They call because the cable is out and they're unhappy and their bill is high. And I just remember one day, they used to monitor our calls a lady was screaming at me so the power was out, which meant her cable was out. and she's screaming at me and I'm like. "But the power is out. I don't know how you want me to do anything different for you. The cable only works with the power. Your TV only works with the power. And she said, well, what the F am I supposed to do? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, I don't know. Maybe read a book. Not the right answer. the right answer.

Caroline 20:01

But a very helpful... it worked during restriction. you know what I mean?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 20:05

it worked for me.

Caroline 20:08

Okay, but the vice president didn't think so.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 20:11

And she called me right in. So that was all before I went on maternity leave. So when I came back, credit and collection seemed like a, a dream. I mastered all the pieces of that role so quickly, and I wasn't doing a lot of calls. I was doing more processing of reports and cleaning up processes and writing processes, and I was bored. I got really bored. So then I thought, well, I'll apply to be a lead in the call center. That's got to be more glamorous. I'll, I'll help the people who are on the phones. A lead is the person that takes all the really bad calls that

Caroline 20:44

Oh,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 20:45

people answering the calls can't handle. When someone says, I want to talk to a supervisor, you suddenly get to be the supervisor without the paycheck.

Caroline 20:52

Oh, gosh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 20:54

that did not last long either. I think I made that about 11 months, and then a position opened up in the information services department and I said, I don't even know what that is, but I'm going to apply."

Caroline 21:06

I, I'm great with, encyclopedias.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 21:08

Right, obviously I have information. And the people that worked in that department looked so happy. I didn't even think to have an informational interview. I just applied, oh, full transparency. Before I applied for that, I applied to be a technician I went in all cute with my hair done and my little suit and my nails and the, the hiring manager said, I don't know how to say this the right way. And I just said, what is it? What is it, Bob? And he said, you know, you have to go under houses. I said,

Caroline 21:35

Ooh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 21:35

He said, you're not gonna be wearing that. I'm like, okay. And he said, your hair's gonna have to be up and you're not gonna be able to have nails. And I said, you know, I can't really work Saturdays anyway, so that's okay.

Caroline 21:47

But good for

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 21:48

Yeah.

Caroline 21:49

that a little bit more. Like, so far I'm hearing, like, you advocating for yourself, returning to work, like what you, you

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 21:55

Yeah.

Caroline 21:55

be able to do that, and listening, discerning, and being like, "Oh, okay. Thank you for that new information."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 22:04

It.

Caroline 22:04

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 22:05

for an HR job. I did not get that. In hindsight, I know why I am not the mouth for HR. It's not a if again, if it shouldn't be said, I'm probably gonna say it. information services made sense and I loved it. I learned how to do soldering and I don't know, there's something very soothing about soldering wires together, and it was back in the old days with cat fives and punchlines

Caroline 22:26

Oh, that's cool.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 22:27

green bar reports. And so there was something different every minute of every day, and where I kind of found my niche. I started going to school again at night and on the weekends working on my degree yeah, information services. I was just, oh my gosh, I love it. So I worked my way up. I stayed in information services through, four mergers and acquisitions and really ended my career, in corporate as an executive director of Comcast Corporation and information services was my thing. I love technology, but I love the people and technology. I'd say my

Caroline 23:03

That's awesome.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 23:04

translating geek to C-suite and C-suite to geek, so that we could get things done so much faster and more efficiently. So a weird set of skills, but somehow they got in me.

Caroline 23:15

Oh, but, but like I'm also hearing that you were open to opportunities and pivots. You tried things out. You, you know, kept seeking and then you found something that you enjoyed that you didn't even know had existed, and then made a space for that and made a valuable contribution that was absolutely needed to translate that information from those two teams.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 23:37

Yeah.

Caroline 23:37

This was glorious. You got some, promotions and new things, and you worked your way up, and so it was kinda awesome until it wasn't. So tell a little bit about that, and then what happened? It's like, wow, look at you progressing up and then you're, going back and you're kind of getting a degree as well, and like wow, all these things going for you. But then what else started to be happening along the same lines?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 24:04

Great question. I'm gonna back up just a teeny bit in the story

Caroline 24:07

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 24:07

Glossed over a really big piece of it. So I was promoted from an analyst information service analyst to project coordinator to project manager. When I got to project manager, I had a leader who I loved, who understood that I am a square peg that does not fit into any round hole. And she's like, as soon as I stop pushing you, you just go and do the thing that needs to be done. For some reason, you, you figure things out really quickly." And I said, "Yeah." Well, she loved me, I loved her. I ended up sitting in that project management role for 10 years, and that 10 years is a big part of my story because I kept thinking, "Well, if I just take on more work, take on more responsibility, finish my degree, do all these things that eventually someone's going to recognize this and just promote me magically to this great director role that I'm aspiring for. That's not how it works.

Caroline 24:58

Right.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 24:59

And so what

Caroline 25:00

The myth of meritocracy. The myth of meritocracy,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 25:04

nobody's paying attention and if you're making your boss shine like a beacon, she's not in a hurry to move you along to anything because you're in a great spot for her also. And it's not she had ill intentions, it just was working and I never thought to ask. What does it take to get promoted? I just assumed.

Caroline 25:22

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 25:22

we went through a reorg because that's what we do in the tech and telco world. We go through reorgs and this particular reorg, I was told I needed to reapply for my position.

Caroline 25:32

Hmm.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 25:32

as I was getting ready to do that, I thought, well, let me see what other positions there are, and I realized that all of the positions needed to be reapplied for. So I looked at the jobs and realized I was already doing more than the manager role, which is a level ahead of me. I was already leading three teams of people. I was leading massive projects responsible for multiple millions of dollars. I had done all of this stuff and I said, screw it. I'm not applying for my job. I'm applying for that job. So I did, and I went in through the interview process and I was offered the job. I was like, oh, this is awesome with a 4% increase. So 10 years, and that was the day I was like, "Mm-mm, that's not happening. So I said, no thank you. And he said, well, what are you gonna do? I said, I'm gonna leave. guess this is it. Like I'm either moving up over or out, this isn't working, and within 15 minutes I was pulled into the CFO's office where she proceeded to tell me why they wanted me in the position, and she proceeded to tell me my value to the company. And I thought, "Oh, that was just a total face palm of I should be telling them this. I should have been negotiating and pushing, not just saying, no, screw this. That conversation ended with her saying, what's it going to take to make this offer palatable to you? We want you to accept it. And I said, well, 15% and a senior manager title. And she said, I assume you mean on top of the 4% we've already offered. And I'm like, obviously no."

Caroline 27:00

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 27:03

dumb question.

Caroline 27:05

but I wonder if maybe in that moment she was trying to help advocate f- for you because you didn't know, right? And I wouldn't know and like, yeah. could she, should she have done it earlier? Yes. Could she s- s- should, should someone have said, "Hey, during this reorg, you know, kinda reviewing this, you actually... I, I wanna make sure that you apply for the one that's actually suited, best suited for what you've been doing. Thank you so much for your contributions. So sorry for the oversight. Let's try to make it right right now." I mean, that could've been a different thing, right? If everybody wasn't so busy with their own selves to actually think about impact of others.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 27:45

been lovely. But we ended up with the senior manager title, the 19% pay increase, and 11 months later, another reorg.

Caroline 27:54

Ugh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 27:54

this Time we're going from a California structure to a division structure, which means my new boss is going to be in Colorado. And the way it was working is there were seven directors who had to reapply which was for four positions, sorry. Once those four directors were filled, they would go to the senior manager, manager level and then work into the analyst level. And I was like, well, I'm putting my name in the hat for a director role. I just, I've, if I've learned nothing at all, I have learned I need to advocate better for myself. So I did, I applied for a director role and as I was hearing other directors say they were interviewing and things were going on, I hadn't received a phone call. I said, well, I guess I'll be calling the hiring manager.

Caroline 28:36

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 28:37

And I just said, Lisa, I'm curious about the status of these positions. I haven't been scheduled for an interview. So I was really looking to get the timing from you. And she said, well, you know, I'm going to be really transparent with you. I have been told that I need to fill these roles with people who already have a director title. So if I don't fill them with one of the seven people that are already in these roles, be looking outside for other director level people to fill the roles. I thanked her. I said, you know, I really appreciate your transparency, but let me tell you some things you probably don't know about me. because HR wouldn't have this on their records, And I started sharing with her my accomplishments and what I had done to drive the business forward, I was located, and all of the things I had really been doing as a project manager. Because in HR it looked like I had gone from project coordinator to project manager to senior

Caroline 29:33

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 29:34

She can't possibly be ready for a director role. Like I was doing the senior manager role without the title for years.

Caroline 29:40

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 30:17

So a few days later I was flown to Denver interviewing in front of a panel of seven vice presidents and senior directors, where I explained to them what the job was that I was applying for because they were so confused with all of the reorg work, that I landed that offer. And so that is just a process that I took going forward from that learning, which then led to the next reorg. Lisa had promoted me to senior director based on accomplishments and things I had done. next reorg was in 2019 and their thought was we would all just come over as is, and I called the head of the department and I said, I'm looking at this organization chart. My peer, he has a vice president title. I don't. So it feels weird that you want to bring me over as a senior director title, and he said, what do you want? I said, I want a job offer with a promotion in title and pay, and then I need to make a decision as to whether I want to accept that. I got that and then opened it up for the other women who were in the same position as me with director or senior director titles coming into a role where they were going to be completely uneven with their peers. So just saying something, just asking the question and advocating a little for myself, opened the door for mostly women in the department to get a better title and a pay increase through that reorg, but it wasn't for me, and that's how we got to where we are.

Caroline 31:40

Okay. So you advocated, you asked, you learned to just go ahead and advocate and say the thing out loud point out inconsistencies, point out things that hadn't been clearly documented or communicated about the contributions that you had made. and then you received that, but then what else started happening that made you realized Otherwise, "And thank you, but no thank you"?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 32:07

I was not aligned and it was very, I had gone from working under a, the division president, who was very transparent and open and clear about what leadership is and how to lead correctly and, you know, if we're doing something stupid. Tell us, don't let us do it.

Caroline 32:25

Right.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 32:25

Into a department. That was very much a 1995 style management. Capacity and so

Caroline 32:35

we're talking not emotionally intelligent,

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 32:38

zero

Caroline 32:40

authoritarian, do what I say. This is how we're doing it. Don't break the waves. What else? How else can we describe for some of our listeners who might not understand a 1995 meter? For sure. Yes. Yes.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 32:55

It's very, it is very much as I say, it is not a put your people first. I am a believer in servant leadership and I know a lot of people say that, but that is how I live. I believe in helping my leaders be better leaders. I believe in helping our team members do what helps them shine and grow at the same time. And it wasn't like that. I was sitting in a meeting and I'm going, why am I in this meeting? This is an analyst level meeting. We don't know how this piece works. We need the experts. Why is this a room of executive directors and vice presidents making this decision who are gonna go back and tell the people who have to implement it, just do it, figure it out? And they're I know they're gonna come and say, these are the complications. We need the experts in the room."

Caroline 33:41

Hmm.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 33:41

I started pushing back and I started bringing those individuals into meetings so that we had the brains in the room, not just the power, for lack of a better word. And then we had a couple of meetings where I would fly to Philadelphia, which is where our headquarters is. Again, I'm in California, so it's a whole day to get there and a whole day

Caroline 33:58

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 34:00

I would show up in these meetings. We would sit there and have conversations and make decisions. By the time I was back in California with the plane wheels on the ground, I would have a message from my boss at the time saying, well, after you left, we continued the conversation and we shifted the direction. It

Caroline 34:18

Ugh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 34:18

once. That happened at least three times. It resulted in me losing a position under me without any say in it.

Caroline 34:25

Ugh.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 34:26

in just really poor decisions on what the culture of the department was going to look like, and it was a struggle at that point. I'm just like, you know what? It's maybe the universe telling me it's time to do something different.

Caroline 34:42

A...

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 34:42

building, Oh,

Caroline 34:44

sorry. It sounds like there's organizational structure changes and struggles.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 34:50

Yeah.

Caroline 34:50

I don't know about you, but for me, now I can say for sure it happened for me. At that time, it seemed like it happened to me. but even though it was like organizational kind of changes, I sure as hell took that personally, and had some effects and my own health, relationships, wellbeing. Did any of that come home and didn't, just stay at work as far as some of those struggles that you couldn't really control or affect? Just curious.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 35:23

So much I was struggling to get out of bed. I was really weighed down. I didn't know. So I started seeing a naturopath and didn't know I had Epstein-Barr and Lyme disease, and those came out. The main trigger for both of those is stress. And Epstein-Barr makes you really tired. It's like having mono, if you ever had that in your teens. it's like having that as an adult with, a lot more weight and a lot less energy.

Caroline 35:49

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 35:49

then add on perimenopause, add on, you know, all these things. I was having migraines, I wasn't sleeping. I'm a authentic, an authentic person. Pretty much. Again, if I don't say it, my face does, because I cannot lie. I'm not that person.

Caroline 36:04

Hey.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 36:04

What I, what I believe and what I mean, and going and spacing my team of 50-ish people telling them something I didn't believe in was making me physically sick. And it was just time to go. I had started building my business on the side, a coaching business for four years and had never intended to make that my full-time job. I had always intended that it was going to be fun. It was something I loved doing coaching. Women, sometimes college students, occasionally a man that's like, Hey, I really need help with this thing. It was the thing that I did so that it wasn't all about politics and other people's way of doing things. And I thought, you know, I'm just gonna build it. And I realized one day well, I woke up, I was like, "I've built a business. Why am I putting up with this crap? Like, what am I doing? And I told my husband, I said, you know. I'm gonna give notice in March of 2020 after my stock options best and I get my bonus. I know you're laughing because we all know what happened in March of 2020. I was like, really?

Caroline 37:05

Yeah. Yeah I, I ended up staying another couple years because of 2020. Yeah, I was trying to wind down and let my commission checks kind of roll all up on in, get the pacesetter money for not going. It was supposed to be Hawaii that year. I'm kinda glad we didn't go because the, the guy who did go to that pacesetter trip, it ended up being that week that it was supposed to be like, you know, stop the spread, and then he came back and had no toilet paper. So, I mean... And then I stayed another almost three years later. Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 37:36

It's

Caroline 37:36

had you even started in the first place? When you're having some of these frustrations and you're like, "You know what I'm gonna just do? I'm gonna make a side hustle, and I think it's gonna be coaching." Like, how did you... How did that even come into fruition? And then how did you at first start to manage building that back then?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 38:00

That was a fun thing. I was actually at a women's conference. I believe it was 2018. I was sitting at a women's conference down in Southern California and there's this whisper, why aren't you leading this? And, you know, I'm like, what? Get out of here. And

Caroline 38:15

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 38:15

I'm going, well, I can't leave this. I don't have a master's or a PhD. I don't have, I haven't been all over the world. I haven't done this and this, like naming off their, um, qualifications, right? Not thinking anything about my own qualifications. By the time I left that seminar, it was two and a half days. That whisper was like a scream. It's like, you have got figure this out. And I'm like, "Oof, okay. I'm gonna go figure this out. So I started looking around, and the next thing I know I hear from someone who's a business coach. Her name's Dawn, I thought, well, you know what? Let me reach out to Dawn and see what she's offering and what that looks like. I hired her. I still am in touch with her, absolutely love her. Helped me lay out the foundation of what this could look like. Who I could work with. She would send me people to practice coaching with to see, you know, what do I love? Where's my niche? Who is it that I want to work with? And to your point, having a very busy, high demanding job that could call me at any time of day or night with whatever they needed. That was the hard part. I'm like, where do I find time without impacting my family? Where do I find time without impacting my own mental health, but also know that this is filling my cup a bit? So I did, at nights. I would work at night, I would work on weekends and I say work, I use that term very lightly, but a couple of hours here, a couple of hours there. my whole philosophy is that you can build a business while working your day job in an hour a day, just an

Caroline 39:39

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 39:40

a day of focus, time, and action. And that's what I did. I was working a lot in the career advancement and job search space. Loved it. Loved weirdly helping people with their resumes, getting them really set and strong in their interviews, whether it was for an internship or a C-level role, and just kind of stayed the course for those couple of years so that when I got to that point, I was like, okay. I don't have to do this. I had paid down my debt. I had built up a running money account, you know, that make sure there's money set aside because business costs money.

Caroline 40:14

Yes.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 40:14

But it just was all of those foundational pieces that I was able to do while I still had corporate funding.

Caroline 40:22

I think that's so smart to do that, for those who are able to stay on a little bit longer and strategically build very intentionally. That could make a much smoother transition for sure. Because as you know, like, building a business is that, And as I'm learning, it's, for a while there it seems like a game of compound interest with pennies. And you just keep doing the right thing and doing the right thing. Oh, it's gonna take time. But of course, I thought I was gonna outsmart it, and, oh, it's not gonna take that much time for me. And I had reached a point to where I just had to leave. The pain of staying the same became greater than the pain of breaking free. It was our 20th wedding anniversary, and my husband, told me he was terrified we wouldn't have another anniversary.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 41:08

Oh,

Caroline 41:08

And I thought, "Oh, man, I finally said too much." Like, I didn't wash the socks

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 41:14

Oh.

Caroline 41:14

And he said, "No, no, no. Your health is deteriorating, and my fear is I remember who you are, but my fear is the kids don't know who you are because the version of you that they're seeing is just always yelling."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 41:33

Oh, ouch. That's rough.

Caroline 41:37

Right. And he's like, "And so I, I don't care what you do, but this isn't it. Figure it out. You've been talking about leaving for years. Figure that out."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 41:46

Wow.

Caroline 41:46

And so I did. And I hadn't connected that the health struggles... because I thought, "Oh, you just get older. Everybody gets high blood pressure. Oh, okay, it's one medicine. Oh, okay, now... Oh, we need two? Oh. Oh, now it's three? Oh, interesting. Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, dang. I got an irregular heart rate? Huh."

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 42:08

gosh.

Caroline 42:08

Oh, that's interesting. I need a cardiac ablation. I'm just getting old. Oh, okay. And I didn't connect that it was related to that stress of the struggle of like wanting things to be different where I... and of course, as women, we wanna push through, right? It's like, there's a challenge, I can do it. I can do anything. I can do all that, and cut fruit, and wake people up, and pack lunches, and like you're not gonna tell me I can't do it. Of course, I can do it. but after leaving... i'd like to hear about you. After you finally left, what did it feel like? I didn't realize the weight had... It's almost like they say you can, I've heard a story where you can put a frog in water and start to boil it, and it doesn't jump out.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 42:51

yeah.

Caroline 42:51

If you put a frog in boiling water, it will maybe try to jump, I guess. But like it, you don't realize the pressure, you don't realize all of that going on around you until you do remove yourself from it. And then it felt like this I didn't know I was carrying that weight.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 43:07

Oh

Caroline 43:07

what was your experience?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 43:09

And a lot of it, I've had conversations with women who want to leave corporate. Clearly I talk to them every day, but it is. I reflect back on it and I feel like we wear it as kind of a badge of honor. It's almost like we're bragging about how stressed we are or how we just had a Snickers bar while we were running between meetings and trying to go to the bathroom and hold the snicker bar between your teeth to like multitask, which is disgusting. I've never done that.

Caroline 43:30

But I

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 43:31

feels,

Caroline 43:31

how it could happen, you know?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 43:33

It can happen. And I think about. You know, the badge of honor, but the conversations in the break room, "Oh yeah, I've just been meetings all day. I've been up since 4:00 AM, blah, blah, blah." And, you know, we're just going, "Oh, I missed my mammogram appointment because I had to be in this meeting," or, "Oh, I missed that thing I wanted to do with my kid." And We talk about it like we're bragging about it because we're tr- taught that that's performance. We're performing. we're doing what needs to be done. And at the end of the day, performing is exhausting. It is. It's exhausting. And when you stop doing it, it feels really weird for a minute, and then you're like, oh, I'm free," you know, doing your thing.

Caroline 44:12

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 44:12

I still remember the first day after I left, April 2nd, 2021, the next Monday, I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna go to Starbucks, and then I'm gonna go to Target, and I'm just gonna do all the things that people do during the day." And I get in the drive-thru at Starbucks, because who doesn't get in the drive-through at Starbucks? We're in a hurry.

Caroline 44:31

Right.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 44:32

I was in the drive-through and I'm going, why am I in the drive-thru?" So I get my coffee that I'd already ordered, and I pull around and I park and I sat in front and I physically forced myself. To drink my entire coffee before I then got up and leisurely strolled across the parking lot to walk through Target where I strolled up and down every single aisle, including the baby aisles. I don't have a baby. I was, like, gonna take my time and I'm going to check out every aisle. And it's so ingrained in us from that crazy busy corporate life to just be on the hamster wheel all the time. There's never an off.

Caroline 45:07

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 45:07

And then I remember one day, I was working in my home office and I had been talking to a client and then recording some content and I was like, oh my God, I've got to go to the bathroom. I've been waiting forever, and then I just started laughing. I'm like, I can go anytime I want. There's literally nothing stopping me from walking out of this office. going to the bathroom."

Caroline 45:25

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 45:25

it sounds funny, but we think back to the days of how many times we had to wait because this meeting needed to finish

Caroline 45:30

Correct.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 45:31

the middle of it.

Caroline 45:31

Yes.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 45:32

this deadline had to be hit and at 40PM you're like, "I am going to explode. I got to go. So retraining your brain and rewiring it. it takes time and we still, five years later, I still fall back into some old habits where I'm like, what am I doing? I don't need to sit at a desk for eight hours. I literally built this business, so I don't have to do that. But it's just that reward system of, oh, well she's stressed out. She must have enough work. Let's give her a good review. She's carrying all the things and teaching women how not to do that. So whether I'm coaching someone who's staying in a nine to five or corporate job, or someone who's trying to leave. Teaching them how to rewire that and start getting better habits and setting better boundaries. You mentioned kids. My son, when he started his business, he told me, he said, I've never wanted to go to work for a company. I saw how hard you worked. I saw how many hours a day you were gone, and I saw how stressed out you were all the time." Literally, the side of my hair has finally grown back in.

Caroline 46:31

It's so tr-

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 46:32

pulling

Caroline 46:32

so tricky.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 46:34

or if it was falling out.

Caroline 46:35

just the thing, right? Just make sure it's all good

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 46:38

yeah.

Caroline 46:52

be presentable.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 46:54

that's right.

Caroline 46:56

that's great. So your son decided to take the example you were sharing and try it differently. And, just out of curiosity, it's not your story to share, but I'm curious as a mom, how'd that work out for him?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 47:11

far so good. He's loving it. He started, he was heading toward acting

Caroline 47:15

cool.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 47:16

shifted all of that. And then he temporarily took a job as a window washer. He had been a caretaker before working with a disabled gentleman, and then he started the acting piece and then he came home for a little bit, at the end of 2020. He hadn't been able to see us because of risks of COVID with his client and he was in a pretty rough space. And I said, just come home. Just leave your job for a little bit and come home. he took a job window washing with a company. He's like, I kind of love it. They pay me like crap, and I think I can make this a business. I was like, oh, all right." well the next thing I know he's moving to Southern California with his buddies and I'm like, wait, wait. That wasn't part of the equation,

Caroline 47:58

Yeah, you were supposed to do it right here so I could get a hug, like anytime.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 48:04

window washing and then he added in pressure washing and solar panel cleaning. And he's doing great. He has hired two employees. His business is growing and he is happy.

Caroline 48:14

Oh, good. That's awesome.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 48:15

but I love the work and I'm building my future. That's amazing.

Caroline 48:20

Oh, that's amazing. That's-- and you can have a, somewhat flexible schedule. That's cool. Okay. So we've hinted a little bit on, the work that you do now. Tell a little bit more explicitly, like who do you work with? How do they find you?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 48:36

I work mostly with midlife women, so I say 45 plus. Most of my clients are 50 to 60. They're really in that window and they're looking for that next chapter, and in some cases, that's a new job, a promotion, or helping them improve their leadership so they can write out the rest of their career until retirement, because that's what they love and that's great. Most of my clients right now though, are trying to do what I did, which is build a business on the side so that it creates their corporate escape plan. That's what I call it.

Caroline 49:06

It.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 49:06

really that, you know, not taking the leap, starting to build and lay the foundation, which takes time. You and I both know, it takes time to figure out your niche and what you're offering and how you're offering it, and what your pricing looks like. I help them with those strategies and. Get them to focus for one hour a day, and sometimes it's not on a Monday, maybe it's on a Saturday. Whatever their one

Caroline 49:28

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 49:28

looks like, that one hour a day of building toward their next chapter so that they're coming at it just eyes wide open already making money before they give notice and saving themselves. I say a lot of the struggle, but also saving themselves a lot of money.

Caroline 49:44

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 49:44

at least $50,000 on coaches and trainings and digital. This is, and paper

Caroline 49:49

Yep.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 49:50

and all the shiny things, right? Because that's how, as a corporate woman you operate. You know what? I just throw money at it. That'll fix it.

Caroline 49:57

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 49:58

It's conversations. Clients tend to come from referrals. That's been my biggest, I would say this year, my biggest, for where clients have come from. I have some that find me on social media. I am out and about in the community, so having great conversations. And one of my newest clients actually has a business. She has never been a corporate person and she's ready to grow. So we're actually taking her to that next level of getting it out of your house and into the interworld

Caroline 50:26

I forgot to ask you, earlier, but could you reflect on back in the day, what did you think success meant and was? And then now, what do you find is authentic success for you? So I'm imagining that definition may have shifted, Or grew differently as you grew. But can you clarify that a little bit?

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 50:51

That definition really shifted when I was 50 and I thought, I've always wanted to do this thing. What's the regret going to look like if I don't do it? And for success? I, at that time was successful. I was what I deemed as successful. I had a high title at a Fortune 50 company. I was making a multiple six figure salary. I was leading big teams and major initiatives and helping make multiple millions of dollars for a multi-billion dollar company. It was, I was successful. People knew who I was. I had a strong brand. I was you know, in the know, I was at the big kids table,

Caroline 51:27

Yeah.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 51:27

So that was really a big piece of success. I had money, I could just go drop, you know, $1,000 at White House Black Market if I wanted to. because who doesn't want to do that on a happy day?

Caroline 51:37

Right.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 51:38

as I have matured in this life, I've come to realize that for me, success, financial stability is always going to be important. There's no way around that, but it looks a little different when I. Look at success. It's not so much about what's coming in, it's more about what's going out. It's how am I serving people? How am I serving my community? How am I lifting other women? I'm part of a networking group out here. The Polka dot powerhouse love them. But we have a. little love note at the end of each meeting that you can write and you don't have to, but you can write a love note to another member, a polka dot sister, you know, with something. And someone gave me one last week when I was at the meeting and it said that she appreciates how much I don't just support and talk about my own business, but I lift other women up and promote their businesses. And I was like, that is success. That to me is something I'm very proud of. Getting emotional. It feels very different. You know, I always cared about people, I always cared about my employees and my team, is different because it's a real impact on women who are truly growing businesses and, and building things that matter so much to them and their families.

Caroline 52:51

That is so beautiful. And I'm so... I'm-- I, that's the thing also, is that we assume a lot of times that people know, how much they mean to us or, or the difference that... or, or the how much we appreciate them.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 53:04

Yes.

Caroline 53:04

love that that women's group gives space and time to be intentional about saying thank you or helping people to know that. And one little note can carry us so far, right? You

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 53:18

Oh,

Caroline 53:18

That's awesome.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 53:39

was little shift in the success definition there.

Caroline 53:43

I wanna thank you so much, Tabatha, for sharing more of the behind the scenes of your story, and what kind of built you before you now help others build awesome businesses for their lives, for their families, for your community. Thank you so much for all of the awesome work that you're doing, and thank you for sharing your story on Your Next Success.

Tabatha Jones-The Corporate Escape Sherpa 54:03

Thank you. Caroline. This has been so fun.

Speaker 54:06

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.