0:03

What if you experienced what some have called the most devastating loss imaginable, and over the next six years, endured continued heartbreak, betrayal, and profound grief, and in the midst of it all, discovered a path from tragedy to healing? This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give the Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. Today's guest is Annah Elizabeth, an author, speaker, and coach devoted to helping individuals heal, evolve, and live lives they love. She's the creator of the Five Facets Philosophy on Healing, an intrinsic blueprint that reflects how each person is naturally wired to think, feel. Act, relate, and make meaning Through her work. Annah guides people through life's most profound challenges with compassion, clarity, and hope. In this conversation, Annah shares how tragedy became the catalyst for transformation. She opens her heart to discuss grief, resilience, identity, and the question that changed everything. Why do some people find meaning and fulfillment after profound loss, while others remain trapped in despair? Through her story, Annah reveals the wisdom behind her five facets philosophy and offers a message of hope for anyone navigating loss, standing at a crossroads or seeking healing and purpose. This episode is a reminder that even in life's darkest moments, healing. Is possible and your next success may begin where your greatest challenge once stood.

Caroline 2:52

Welcome Annah Elizabeth to Your Next Success. I'm super excited to be talking with you today.

Annah 2:58

Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay.

Caroline 3:01

You're welcome. All right. We are gonna get into all of the beautiful ways that you help people. You do a lot with healing people, healing their journeys, um, helping them process emotions, figure out where they wanna go, how they could get there, and giving them that encouragement and positive ability to just move through life regardless the circumstances. And we'll get to that. But let's start back at the beginning of your story. Help us understand where were you born? What was life like for the very littlest Annah?

Annah 3:34

Oh, so I was actually born in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Um, my dad was a Marine, so I was born on base there, but we moved my family located moved to North Carolina to Raleigh when I was around two. So pretty much Raleigh has always been home to me. Um, born and raised here. And then after my few years in college, I moved to upstate Central New York where I spent 35 years. Um, and then due to life circumstances as we all face, I made the decision to move back to Raleigh,

Caroline 4:22

Two.

Annah 4:23

2021. Um,

Caroline 4:26

Wow.

Annah 4:27

kind of, that's the trajectory

Caroline 4:29

That's the thing.

Annah 4:31

that's a quick thing of where I was,

Caroline 4:35

Yeah.

Annah 4:36

who I was. If you wanna know, like. More about that. I was always curious. Um, I was always out my bike and down massive hills and,

Caroline 4:49

Yes.

Annah 4:51

We had little ramps in our cul-de-sac, you know, I was always out there just, uh, just doing my thing, having fun, always on an adventure. I guess I never would've thought about that until

Caroline 5:04

Yeah.

Annah 5:05

But yeah, life has always just been kind of an adventure for me. Um, and I was always a helper. You know, I, looking back, like much to my parents' chagrin, there was a cat that would kept coming around. Turns out she was pregnant, but I would take little bowls of milk out, it on

Caroline 5:27

Aw,

Annah 5:27

and my parents were like, stop feeding the cat. And of course, I, I didn't, you know, um,

Caroline 5:35

You were helping and

Annah 5:37

Uh, yeah, I was, I was helping it. Um, and then when we moved, ironically, I was about 11, um, 10 11 when we moved and the cat disappeared. I was heartbroken. Of And then, uh, we moved to an area where they had a swim team and a diving team. So I was very athletic. I was a competitive swimmer diver. I rode horses,

Caroline 6:02

Oh.

Annah 6:03

teenage years, and I continued to be a helper. So I had just started learning to swim, but I found myself very quickly helping the head coach with the six and under swimmers them. And so I've, I've always been involved with children and helping and teaching,

Caroline 6:26

Yeah.

Annah 6:26

supporting in some way or another.

Caroline 6:30

Now what about your mom?

Annah 6:32

Yeah, my mom worked. Um, she would have much preferred to have stayed home. Um,

Caroline 6:40

Gotcha. Wow.

Annah 6:41

and extremely talented person. She was doing coding, um, before coding was a thing. Um, she plays music. She plays the piano and writes music, um, by ear. I

Caroline 7:01

Wow.

Annah 7:02

tried to teach me how to play the piano. N never, never had the patience for it. Um, but yeah, so she did, she did work. Um, and then supported. I'm the oldest of three. And so we were

Caroline 7:19

Okay.

Annah 7:20

active and she was always there alongside my dad. They both were like supporting our events and activities and helping out at the meets and volunteering and um, volunteering in the community. So I was fortunate to have those role models.

Caroline 7:37

Very fascinating. Okay, so you're having a lovely childhood with lots of adventures and some sports in like riding your bike, hanging out with neighborhood kids, swim team or horse riding, all of these things. What about during school? Were there any particular subjects or activities that you enjoyed more than others?

Annah 8:02

Um, I enjoyed writing, so I enjoyed

Caroline 8:06

Okay.

Annah 8:07

classes and I really enjoyed math. Um, history, not so much. I actually hated history. In school history, they want you to memorize names and dates and be able to just regurgitate it back out onto a test. what I really wanted to know is what were people doing? How were they living? How were they navigating life?

Caroline 8:37

So you kind of have these helping theme coming along. You've got interest in writing, um, not so much in history as you kind of go through high school. What about that, like what happened during high school? Any new themes or just continuations that come up or.

Annah 8:55

oh, yeah. Well, that was when I, I guess, you know, I started having a really hard time around my senior year, and I went from being. Um, somebody who was very straight laced, you know, good student active involved to kind of doing the party scene. And really that was when I, I started going through a hard time really trying to find out who Annah was and fit how to fit in and where to fit in, because I was, everybody was my friend, right? I wasn't part of any one group. And, um, you know, so I wanted to fit in, but I didn't wanna fit in because I was also somebody who always beat to beat to my own drum, you know? And that's, some of those things don't change. So, yeah, I

Caroline 9:56

Yeah.

Annah 9:57

I spent quite a few years, um, and then my parents divorced when I was in college, which I never expected. So, um, kind of put me into a tailspin. So yeah, I spent quite a few years finding myself and experiencing life the not so joyful way.

Caroline 10:21

was college always part of your thoughts of what you were gonna do after, or how did you decide that you were even gonna go to college and then where to go and what to study?

Annah 10:30

Uh, so with both of my parents, it was kind of always just expected that that's what you would do.

Caroline 10:40

Yeah.

Annah 10:41

I had 12 years old, I remember lying on my sidewalk sunbathing, fantasizing about being the world's youngest author.

Caroline 10:51

Uh.

Annah 10:51

um, and I, I never realized until, um. I was in my early thirties and I finally thought, okay, maybe I could use some outside help figuring this life thing out. I remember the counselor asked me like, do you want to do? Like, like, what? Um, and he said, did you ever have anything you enjoyed as a child? And I was like, well, yeah, I always wanted to be a writer. And he's like, then why aren't you? And I was like, that kind of flipped because it was never,

Caroline 11:29

Yeah.

Annah 11:30

as artistic as my mom was, she was also like a singer and a beautiful voice and wasn't an option. So I went into school. People always thought I was either gonna become a vet or a teacher. I remember knowing early on, like that would never happen'cause I would probably get into trouble for not keeping my mouth shut. For, um, people who were not being responsible with their animals and their children. Um, I went into computer science and, uh, I actually started out as, as a mathematician then realized, mathematicians are into a plane all unto themselves and I'm not a part of that plane. But what I, it came to me as you were asking the question earlier, so there's many reasons that I was fascinated with numbers, but part of it is I've always been a solutions finder and I never associated that with math. Um, but that's what you're doing, solving problems, finding

Caroline 12:39

Yeah.

Annah 12:40

mathematical equations. So I started out in computer science working with a lot in numbers and that sort of analytical thinking. And then I had a heavy dose of literature on the side. So the writing, as they say, was kind of always on the wall.

Caroline 12:57

Then, then what did you do after college? Or how did, did you have any first jobs or, you know, kind of a both and world, what did you start doing to get money and, and how did you know and how did that work out? After

Annah 13:10

was 11. Um, so that was my first job, you know, was babysitting. And I was so responsible for my age that the community would often, if they had a big adult event, they would, two or three families would get together at one person's house and I would watch all the kids. and then my first job, in the corporate world was working in a grocery store, um, here in Raleigh. And. when I left college, when my parents divorced, um,'cause I started out in Clemson and they, when they got divorced, they, and, you know, right. Looking back, they were like, we need you to come to a North Carolina school, or you need to contribute X number of dollars a, a semester towards your education. And, you know, being the teenager that I was, I was like, well that's messed up. So, so I came back to Raleigh and I got a job working in a cash register company. Um, and again, I ended up, when I moved to New York, I found a job there where I ended up becoming a computer and cash register programmer, a systems programmer. And I would go into a store or a restaurant, Because I had restaurant background and I had some knowledge of that. The company never had anybody do that. And so the salesman outta my office, he was like, I'm gonna start selling to restaurants.'cause we have somebody who has that inside knowledge and that awareness. So I would

Caroline 14:58

Oh, that's awesome.

Annah 14:58

say to management, you know, what, what do you need? What do you have? And then, you know, he would tell'em the system and I would set it up and I would do all of the training. that's, that was kind of where I started. And then I worked for, I managed some small businesses until I started managing my former husbands and my businesses and businesses and then doing what I do now. So.

Caroline 15:26

What, what led you to New York? Like of all the places after being North Carolina girl and kind of then having that Clemson stage, but then like, what was the New York draw? Like what, what happened there?

Annah 15:38

well it was, uh, you know, if you believe in such things, it was sort of a divine appointment. I was introduced to somebody who, yeah, you did tell me we were going, we were gonna go a lot deeper than any place else. I was actually introduced to a guy, and not too many months into the relationship, he was moving back up there to get a job. he had just gotten out of prison and, you know, my philosophy, and it still is now, I'm just a little more discerning. But, you know, everybody makes mistakes and we all deserve the opportunity to. Be our best, the best version of ourself. and so I moved north with him. That relationship only lasted a couple of months after we got there. And, um, it was one of my life's many lessons and my parents were like, we're gonna come and get you. And I was like, no. Like

Caroline 16:49

Yeah.

Annah 16:49

a really good job. I love the work that I'm doing, and, I'm gonna stay here. And part of me was like, oh, maybe I can make this work out. And, you know, the other part of it, what I say, I, I wrote some of that story in my memoir, digging for the light. So it kind of the, the memoir basically chronicles the seven year period of those significant life loss events that led The body of work that I developed and I do now, but it also talks about, some of, of the backstory yeah. So if I wanna, in one of the chapters I write, if you, I never believed in fate or destiny and then I moved halfway across the country. so yeah, I think there was a little bit of the unknown at play as well.

Caroline 17:49

Yeah. So you move up there for this relationship, which fizzles you find this job, you're kind of finding a cool, sweet spot to utilize some of the prior experiences you've, you have, plus you're fascinated by it and you're enjoying the work. Now you're in New York. You had mentioned you stay there for a few decades, and then what happened? There's gonna be a lost story that we're gonna have to like, kind of get to, but like what's the, before the, after the shift and then the finding of the job and then, and then what happened? How did you meet your, your person for that chapter? Like how, how did all, how did all this go down? Yeah,

Annah 18:28

after the first breakup, I ended up moving into a different apartment and, uh, the lock on the front door broke and he came to fix it, and

Caroline 18:42

Interesting.

Annah 18:43

the rest is history. He kept showing up for random, you know, random things. And we, we seemed to hit it off well. We spent many hours just talking. And, eventually three and a half years later, we got married. We had a chil, you know, we had four children together. And, um, uh, you know, unfortunately

Caroline 19:13

yeah.

Annah 19:13

his version of marriage and mine were turned out to be a little bit different.

Caroline 19:22

And so that's your like romantic partner thing. How about, how did you find friends in New York after being in North Carolina forever? How did you find your people that were your greater friend circle? Also

Annah 19:37

So actually

Caroline 19:38

love.

Annah 19:39

them ended up being through the relationship with him. And, um, so unfortunately, you know, I say when I, when I left my marriage. Every aspect, literally every aspect of my life was appended. Um, one of those, including friendships. So, um, yeah.

Caroline 20:06

Yeah. Okay. So I know that there's been some pretty major losses. You, you hinted on it a little bit. We're starting to talk about some, would you mind digging into those a little bit for people to whatever level your comfort is.

Annah 20:25

Yeah. So, um, ultimately the catalyst for me showing up and, and really discovering how I truly wanted to serve people and how people in the world it, there was a six year and 10 month string of significant life loss event. It started with the death of my firstborn son, Gavin, following unexpected delivery complications. It was a textbook picture, perfect pregnancy. Um, what was not textbook was he had, um, he encountered something that's very common. I didn't find this out until a few years later. He aspirated on his meconium, which is very common in childbirth. What is uncommon is that it's fatal. So that happened on May 11th, 1990, and over the next six years and 10 months, I went on to experience two second trimester miscarriages, too complicated, but successful pregnancies, a six week psychiatric stay for severe depression. And one final pregnancy. Six weeks before that child was born, I discovered that my husband and my best friend were having an affair. So all of that, you know, those compounding varied loss types, um, in a very short period of time and after, literally hours after I heard the words. I'm sorry, he didn't make it about my son. I had just this thought, and that was, I did not want to spend a lifetime mourning him. And what I say now is, at the time, I didn't know what that meant, what it look like on the other side, or how the I was gonna get

Caroline 22:22

Yeah.

Annah 22:22

that seed had been planted. And then during that seven year string of losses, there was one question that drove me forward. And that was, how is it that some people go on to live happy, fulfilled lives following tragedy, Ms. Happer mayhem. others succumb to drugs, despair, a life avoid or suicide, and that question spawned thousands more questions and I just relentlessly pursued the answers at core. I truly believed that we all within us the ability to fully transcend whatever life situations come our way. I, what I ultimately was seeking is what is at the core of that, human potential to do that.

Caroline 23:23

I can't even imagine. Yeah. Any one of those losses could have been, like you said, debilitating for somebody, um, to have them not be able to, to move forward. And you didn't have just one, you had multiple. And so, but yet you had this, somehow this seed of like, okay, well I don't want this, you know, I don't wanna have a, a lifetime of mourning. And I kind of still had this like hope for a better tomorrow or to try to figure it out to not only help yourself, uh, and then ultimately now you also help others. But what was that process like of discovering and uncovering and figuring out and, and what have you found since then?

Annah 24:08

well it was a ride. Let you know. Let me just say, I mean, obviously six weeks in a, psychiatric ward, right? there were a lot of dark days. Um, there were months, if not bordering on year or more where I had suicidal thoughts daily, if not multiple times a day. I spent a great deal of time thinking about how I could exit this world and make it look like an accident. Um, and I share this, one of the stories in the book. Um, you know, I went to bed one night at least, and I prayed, which I've, never a praying person per se, right? Prayer was not in any way, shape, or form, a normal part of life. And I went to bed one night and I said, dear God, you, they say you don't give us more than we can handle. And you know, I can't handle anymore. Please take me tonight. It. And, um, you know, so in the midst of that I did a lot of journaling and I honestly think that that was one of my, for lack of a better word, and a cliched expression, but one of my saving graces because I, I journaled sometimes an hour or more a day. and what I realized is I would look back through them'cause I would read back like, oh, what was the last thing I wrote about? So I wasn't being redundant, that's the efficient part of the brain. I would see, I would write not just the painful stuff, but I would write things like something my child did that made me smile or something, a joke that I heard standing in the grocery line that made me laugh. and I would share those things. so what it showed me is that in the midst of this darkness, this deep, deep darkness, there is also something that is so bright and so alive, um, and vibrant. And so I do believe that that was a big part of it because I wasn't, I didn't have to remember. One of the things that I talk about in the work that I do now is when we're going through a difficult time, there are the grief and bereavement industry, which I hate to use that term, but there truly is an industry, they will have you believe that your grief lasts forever. They'll have most of them talk and speak. And we have as a culture, which I believe has been conditioned over centuries, that, um, death is the ultimate loss. And so when we hear, oh, somebody's grieving, it's like, oh, who died? there are an endless amount of types that stimulate grief. And I actually just wrote an article, so you are getting the first birds eye view of this. It just went up on my, on my blog yesterday. But there is no universal hierarchy loss. We determine what that hierarchy. And one of the things that made me realize that is, so child loss is considered the worst loss. And there's a book that was written that, and so it was coined and many people believe that child loss is the worst loss. What happened is though, when we tell people that we, them up for failure, the reason I can say that is because. Now, flash forward to seven years into the marriage, when I out about the affair between two of the most important people in my life, ultimately I started questioning why I was struggling. And again, at the time I didn't really have the language explain it, but there was a part of me that was like, I've already experienced the worst possible thing a human can experience and endure. So why am I crying over s spillt milk? This is just an affair. Well, it's not just an affair, right? And depending on your, your hierarchy structure of the five universal gifts that were born with, which was the body of work that was birthed out of all this loss, that affair is going to mean different things and the social facet. at the top of my hierarchy, which means my connection to the world around me. And for me, that's primarily people, but it could for alliteration. I say people, pets, plants, um, place or passion. So my guess is most of us have heard somebody say, I'd much rather hang out with a dog than a human. Right? Have you

Caroline 29:33

Mm-hmm.

Annah 29:34

ever say that? it's because their connection is closely more closely linked to animals than humans. It's not right or wrong. And, and so anyway, for me, with that social facet and connecting with people on a very intimate and deep level, um, those relationships are sacred to me. And so it felt as significant, if not more significant than the death of my son. Okay. And one of the things that I'm just being guided to share this now, and I don't know why, um, but one of the things that I say, going back to that thought I had hours after Gavin died, right? I didn't wanna spend a lifetime mourning him. And it kind of ties into your question. I eventually did discover what I did want, and that was to be able to celebrate his life. I speak to audiences all over the, the globe. Now, I actually had the privilege of speaking to a small retreat group in Scotland last fall. Um, and you know, my message is can 100% fully heal no matter what life throws at you. And I celebrate my son's life. Now. I have healed the conflict and grief. So the grief exists in all five of our facets. I've healed that across my entire being. so there's nothing left to mourn. And for me, the celebration is what is left. And that's, one of the messages that I really want people to understand, that no matter what your conflict is or your struggle is, there's an answer that is right for you.

Caroline 31:29

So, profound. There's several things I wanna kind of follow up on. One, the whole reason that we are releasing this podcast episode when we are going to release it is to celebrate Gavin first and foremost, Because, May 11th is his birthday. This is gonna come out right about then, Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow@nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. Secondly, we talked about a variety of losses. Let's articulate those a little bit more. So you can have a, a, a child loss. There can be a death, there can be a job loss, there can be a relationship loss there, whether that's a, a spouse or a best friend. So I could completely see in your case like that's a betrayal, like that's a, on a, on two really deep people that you've had. Several years of trust and foundational buildup. So I can't compare. What does that compare? Like, I, I can't, I haven't had all of those different experiences. And also in the same thing, if you deeply trust someone so much and, and now you're two main people, of course it seems like that's gonna cut super, super hard. But what other kind of losses might people have that could trigger a, a grief response?

Annah 33:22

So one that is coming to mind is the empty nest, right?

Caroline 33:28

Ah.

Annah 33:29

we often, we don't think about that, but when you think about your children leaving home, and again, each of us is wired differently. one of the things in the grief space is, you know, your, your grief is equally related to your love, you know, and grief is love with, with no place to go and different things that sound pretty. But when you really start digging in, they're not the truth or the gospel for everyone. so one of the things that I learned early on in my exploration is our grief doesn't have anything to do with the love or appreciation or value of the thing or the human. That's gone missing from our life. And it can be abstract or tangible. So the loss of hopes and dreams. and so empty nest, it's, it's how we attach to or identify with whatever is missing. So, empty nest, there was someone I knew who, um, she, her, one of two of her children were actually in school with one of my children all the way through. And she started lamenting, like when they were in ninth grade what was gonna happen when they went away to college and then that last year. Right. And she was devastated that she was happy for them, but she was also internally devastated. And she would count down the hours to when they were coming home and when they came home, she would count down the hours when they left. It's like, oh, I have, I only have three days with them. Right? So some people would look at that as unhealthy. For me, I'm able to look at that and say, well, and it's not for me to say, or any of us to say whether it's healthy or unhealthy. I mean, I'm not a doctor psychiatrist, right. But for her, she was very much wrapped in her role, her identity as a mother, as a caretaker, as a nurturer, as as a worker bee, and that family structure. So when those children left, and we hear, we

Caroline 35:54

Yeah.

Annah 35:55

See that with the empty nest, we see it with people who've been together for decades. And then in, in the years, one of them ends up being a caretaker in the later years. and so, and then their mourning, the loss of their role, what to do with their like. Now, who am I? And so that's what I help people understand is what does this mean to you? it,

Caroline 36:25

Yeah.

Annah 36:25

For me, when my children went away, literally I was like, go be free, have fun. and it is time for you to share the rest of your gifts and talents with the rest of the world. I also had, when my children were growing up, and I still actually have it, it was a small plaque that said Parents give their children two things. is roots, the other as wings. And I always knew that my children were not. They were

Caroline 37:00

Yeah.

Annah 37:01

the world. And so those things, that sort of awareness and sense then was a part of me being able to. Allow them to go and live their life. And to me, to be able to celebrate for that, for them and honestly for myself, not that there

Caroline 37:22

Yeah.

Annah 37:23

that I missed. I remember standing in front of the milk cooler one day and we would go through, I kid you not 12 gallons of milk, 10 to 12 gallons of milk a week, and we had one who only drank skim milk. One only drank whole milk and one only drank 2%. So you would come to my refrigerator and take your The only thing I didn't have was 1%, and I remember going to the store one day and I went to the milk cooler and I was standing there and I was like, oh, I don't have to buy this. When my second child went away to college, I'm like. I don't have to buy a whole milk anymore and I don't have to buy skin milk anymore. Like my refrigerator's bare, you know, weird

Caroline 38:15

Yeah.

Annah 38:16

So empty nut, that's a big, long tangent. Empty nest is one that's real. Um, I, one that I often use is like high level athletes hopes and dreams. They spend their, their sometimes decades, um, years dedicated to something. And if they have, uh, the career ends because they age out or they have a career ending injury, so much that they, they lose their livelihood. Some of them,

Caroline 38:44

Yeah.

Annah 38:45

high level athletes are paid for what they do. They lose their livelihood, they lose their identity, they lose their activity, their, their social circles for some of them. Um, and so again, coming back to those five facets, understanding how. Each loss is impacting these different aspects of the self and understanding that. And when we can understand how it's impacting us internally, then we're

Caroline 39:18

Yeah.

Annah 39:18

to see, oh, this is how I'm navigating life and this is what this is showing up. And now we're in a position with that awareness. We're empowered to do something about it because loss and grief are unempowering. We seldom have a say how and when those situations are gonna play out. But we 100% have choice in how, when, where, and what we wanna do regarding what I call healing.

Caroline 39:51

Let's talk about the facets, these five facets, this way that you've kind of discovered, uncovered, utilized to help sort people through. Tell a little bit more about what are those and, and a little bit about how you help people with that framework.

Annah 40:08

Yeah. Thank you. So the, what I discovered, and it was quite by accident, um, it was a line that wrote itself in the book, in the memoir. So when I wrote about the morning, I discovered the affair. What I wrote was every piece of hope I'd ever held on to before had just been shredded my faith in God and dignity and trust. Every spiritual, emotional, social, physical and academic part of me laid in a heap to be tossed out with the garbage. It never made it to the garbage. I recycled it instead. And it was in one of the, the later edits of that book, I probably read that passage a hundred times. And those five things stood off the page at me. And what I heard was, that's it. And I was like, that's what it's like. That's the answer to the question that you've been looking for. So I did what I did and I started asking more questions. what are these five things? Academic, emotional, physical, and social. They're actually, are the universal gifts that we are all born with. We come into the world with these exact same gifts. What is different is each of us has our own personal hierarchy. And these facets, depending on where they are in our hierarchy, impact and influence how we see and experience of life. So at the top of your individual hierarchy is the facet that I say is literally driving the bus of you. It's simultaneously driving your suffering and your success. So the social facet I mentioned is at the top of my hierarchy. So when I'm thriving, feeling successful, feeling lit up from the inside out, I'm doing what I'm doing right now. helping people. I'm serving people, I'm connecting with people, I'm engaging with people. I'm to know people, all the things At the same time when I'm struggling, people are always in the mix. What are they thinking? Are they judging me? How is what I'm saying going to, how is it gonna impact them, yada, yada, yada, yada. And you may know this with your science background, but there's, um, studies that have shown that the average person has. 70,000 thoughts a day, and I don't even wanna know how many thoughts go through this brain in a day.'cause it doesn't shut off until I go to bed. And so, and then it's also proven, and there's different statistics. I've heard 60 to 80% that to 80% of those thoughts, number one, we don't recognize. And then 60 to 80% of them also are negative. And so the key is becoming aware of it. So we had a little bit of a, a glitch, Caroline and I did a little, um, test beforehand because of a sudden I come home today, get set up for this, and there's people outside my window, workers painting and moving ladders and there's a generator. And I was like, I, and so I'm thinking. going through my head is I'm being really gracious with you. It's like, oh my God, is she gonna think I'm not prepared? Oh, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, so you have to learn that facet at the top. You have to learn to manage it. Recognizing when it is influencing you in a way that's not helpful or healthy, recognize it. And then again, you're empowered to do something about it. as you move down your personal hierarchy, each facet has less daily impact and influence on your daily life. By the time you get to the bottom facet, it's basically out of sight, out of mind. so it's, I've actually had some people like really dig into this recently. I'm like, oh. So I liken it to the foundation of your house and living in, in New York for years, most homes have dug out foundations like a full basement.

Caroline 44:30

Yep.

Annah 44:31

people don't look at the foundations of their house until there's a problem.

Caroline 44:37

Yep.

Annah 44:38

It's out of sight outta mind. And so the bottom facet is kind of like that as well. It literally has the least impact and influence on your life. And so that one has to be intentionally supported because if any aspect of our life isn't being supported in some way, there's gonna be a collapse or a breakdown in the system. the facets themselves, everything is interconnected. so, um, the very first prototype of this when I started working with this model was a wheel. And the self is at the center, but everything. So you could have something in your social facet that is being impacted, say the relationship, for example, but any of those other facets or all of them then are also being impacted by that.

Caroline 45:34

Yeah. Yeah.

Annah 45:36

So, so many models and I've seen models that include like, so the occupational, right? We don't come into this with a role or a job

Caroline 45:46

correct.

Annah 45:47

an occupation, a lot of models will look at financial, right? As how's your financial life or your time and money for when we, when we are born into this world, we're not born with those things, but we

Caroline 46:01

Correct. Correct.

Annah 46:02

these five facets. for simple definitions, ability to learn, ability to feel, uh, we're born into a physical body and a physical environment. So the physical

Caroline 46:16

Yep.

Annah 46:17

two-pronged. The social facet is the ability to connect to the world around you. And the spiritual facet is I call the, the divine self, the soul, the spirit, whatever term you want to use. It's the part of us that knows our hopes and our dreams, our passions. That's that spiritual facet. And so where, where I look at is underneath what a lot of models do, a lot of models look at, okay, what's happening to you and outside of you?

Caroline 46:53

Yep.

Annah 46:53

And when we are developing somebody, so we, we don't just assign somebody's hierarchy. Through, through the coaching work, it's actually revealed

Caroline 47:05

Mm.

Annah 47:06

they are and from all the work that I've done and the questions that I've asked so far, whereas a lot of models, your arc type, um, will change as you mature. facet structure itself, you, that does not change. You actually come in with what I call an intrinsic blueprint through asking a lot of questions similar to like you did, tell me about your childhood, tell me about this. Tell me how about that. Those facets reveal themselves. And so what we look at is that facet structure is actually influencing how you see and experience everything outside of you, which then is creating the patterns, the processes, the coping mechanisms, the way we navigate both struggle and success. And so we look at, look at like what is happening through you, not what is happening to you. that's

Caroline 48:12

I like it.

Annah 48:12

of people revert to. It's not, it's not what you do that determines your hierarchy structure. It's how you are actually intrinsically wired.

Caroline 48:23

That's so fascinating. Um, mentioning success. I forgot to ask you in those earlier years. Let's say growing up, even before college, what did you think success was? Or what did you think it looked like for someone to be successful? And of course the, the follow-up question is gonna be like, and then now what? Right. But like from that, like, what were you first thinking? Like, this is what success is and therefore that's what you and, and, and some people are like, I wasn't thinking of success, I was just trying to get what was my next meal, you know? Yeah.

Annah 49:02

yeah, and I've never thought about that, but the first thing that is coming to my mind is, if you had asked me back then, it probably would've been success meant, you know, a high paying corporate job, highly educated, um, success was around business and money and like income sort of status or social status. Like those were the benchmarks for success, I think is how I would've answered that then now, I mean, you said, you know, the follow up question is now what do I think about success? I think that every little milestone, every little, um, that we have is a form of our own success. And so what I talk about with the work that I'm doing is helping people achieve what I call their next level potential. for

Caroline 50:06

Ah.

Annah 50:07

who are in active raw grief following a significant life loss event, that next level potential might be getting up and taking a shower and putting clothes on.

Caroline 50:19

Yep.

Annah 50:19

And for somebody else, that, that next level potential might be that next raise or that next degree, or finishing a degree. Um, and literally everything in between. It might be personal success about, wow, this is something I've been navigating. We all have aspects of ourselves that, hmm, we wish we could do a little better in. Or it's like, wow, I don't, I don't like how I showed up there, so I wanna show up differently. And then

Caroline 50:53

Yes.

Annah 50:54

To make that happen, to fulfill ourselves. Right? And

Caroline 51:00

Yeah.

Annah 51:00

be somebody's level And when they reach that, to me, that is success. That is a win. And one of the things that trying to live by these days, um, and I learned this from somebody else, you know, they're like, all these mini wins, we think of, oh, the win I got that degree, I got that new car, I got the house, I got the pay raise, I got the girl, the guy, or you know, whatever. It's like those big things are wins and there are so many micro winds along the way that I think if we stop and really recognize them, um, overall, we feel and then are more successful in life because we're acknowledging those little things. So.

Caroline 51:53

Yeah, I, I am so aligned in this regard. Our approach is different. The, the, our approach is a little different. Our intentions are aligned and, and the, and who we work with, right? Some are only gonna be served from your voice. Some will be served from mine, but I'll say I help next chapter explorers become authentically successful and authentic. Success is how you define it and how I define it's gonna be different. And it's d it can be different at different chapters and different stages. And, and yeah, there, there were some days. Here, even though like, oh, look at all these external successes. All right, well there are some days I could barely get out of bed. And even just getting out of bed was a feat in itself. And okay, that's success and that's why my company is Next Success, because I believe everybody's already successful because you got to today,

Annah 52:38

Mm-hmm.

Caroline 52:38

what would you love to do next? Right? And just like, and, and that, and whether it's getting out of bed, whether it's getting a new job, whether it's trying to be aligned, whether it's coming home and not being so exhausted that you just rage scream at the people that you say you love the most and they get the least at. But like, but what is that? Where are you now? Who are you? Right? So then I'll have, um, scientific data driven understandings of around natural abilities and mental fitness and mental resilience and communication behavior, and having an integrated vision. What do you want your life to look like? How can your career fuel that life? And just all of those things and there's still more and there's still, you know, things outside of my approach that are so, so needed in the world. And that's partially what you bring in. So how do you work with people? How do you help people?

Annah 53:35

Oh, thank you. Um, and I just wanna piggyback on, you know, the successes that we were talking about or accomplishments, right? And, um, sometimes that next success is actually recognizing, well, I've been burning the candle at both ends and my body needs a break. And so today I am turning the phone off and I'm going for a walk. Or I'm sitting in front of the TV for, you know, until tomorrow or taking a day off, right? So sometimes that is

Caroline 54:04

Yep.

Annah 54:05

success, acknowledging that. Wow, I need to really take care of me. And that's what that's gonna look like right now. So how do I work with people? Um, I work with people predominantly one-on-one. Right now I am working on some group coaching, um, events. I do have a lot of virtual, not a lot, but I have virtual events that are group focused. but do, I do one hour sessions. So I have what's called an intuitively guided session where somebody comes in with a specific intention, this is what I want to accomplish, and then I help figure out what's underneath it and then also help brainstorm ideas for them to get there. It's, it's actually highly successful. And then I have my full program of the, the Five Facets, which is a 10 week program generally. And we move through all five modules. And the beautiful thing about that is once you have that insight about who you are and your wiring, you take that with you for life and you can apply it to any situation. So I often have people who will go through the program and get, gain the awareness and understand how they're wired, what their processes are have been to date, helping them to make changes that they want, that are gonna help them move towards whatever their next level potential is or their next success. Right? And then oftentimes they will come back to me for shorter sessions afterwards if they have something particular in their life. And now we build off of what information we already know and look at where their processes have adapted since gaining that knowledge. So that those are primarily how I work with people, and that's the coaching side of it for people who are also into the more um, elements. I do energy medicine and intuitive guidance to help people heal both the human and sort of the soul or spiritual sides of themselves, depending on where they're at. So yeah.

Caroline 56:34

Awesome.

Annah 56:34

you for asking that.

Caroline 56:36

You're also a speaker, um, have done keynotes. You've been on all sorts of different news channels. You have a TEDx talk, um, and an author with your memoir. So you are very multi-dimensional, multi-purpose, able to help people. And where can people find you? Where can they find out more about aside? I'll have links and things, but um,

Annah 56:59

The, the best place to find information and, and find all the things is the website, which is Annah elizabeth.com. And Annah has an H on the end. So,

Caroline 57:12

yeah.

Annah 57:13

or it for some people, the five facets all spelled out.com. Um, they can find me there. And then I'm on all the socials, Instagram, LinkedIn, um, Facebook, and my YouTube channel. So I am starting to post more short, um, burst of content on YouTube that just very succinct leading people in. And I have blogs and, uh, I have my blog and all kinds of resources on the website too. So, yeah, come join me. I call, I say we are all neighbors. I believe that. know, you and I were kind of local neighbors, but I believe that we have local neighbors, regional, national, and global neighbors. I mean, I really do believe that we are all neighbors and it's, um, so I call them my neighborhood. So come join the neighborhood wherever, wherever you are. If I'm there, join me. I'd love to have you.

Caroline 58:17

Oh, I love it. Well, thank Annah. Thank you so very much for telling more about your story, more about the work that you do. Um, keep shining your light, keep doing great things. I'm so excited that we, we do actually know each other, uh, in real life, and I can't wait to celebrate even more of your successes as they come.

Annah 58:35

same, same, same. Thank you so much for hosting me and for all the work that you are doing, because it's

Caroline 58:42

Thank you, Annah. Thank you so, so much.

58:46

Annah, thank you. Your journey is a testament to resilience and a reminder that healing is possible even after unimaginable loss. Your work is bringing hope and transformation, and we are grateful for the light that you shine in the world. Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.