0:03

At what point do you stop trying to be heard and start paying attention to where you are meant to contribute? This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give the Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. My guest today is Camilla Calberg. Through her own experiences navigating corporate environments, Camilla began to recognize something many people feel but struggle with. You can be doing the work, showing up, contributing, and still sense that something is off. What she came to understand is that this tension is information. Information about alignment, about environment, and about whether your voice is actually being heard. In this episode, we explore the moments that shaped that realization for Camilla, how those experiences changed the way she leads, And how she now helps others move from being overlooked to becoming trusted advisors.

Caroline Sangal 1:57

Camilla Calberg, welcome to Your Next Success. I am thrilled to be talking with you today.

Camilla Calberg 2:04

Thank you, Caroline. I'm super excited to be here and see what's going to unfold.

Caroline Sangal 2:09

Awesome. And you're joining, I believe, from Copenhagen, Denmark. So this is amazing thus far. Um, we were talking just before we started recording that I think thus far you're the person who I'm recording with. That's the furthest away of where I am. So this is three cheers for the internet and, super excited again to, to talk with you. So we will get to all the amazing, awesome things that you do today to help people, with who they are, who they're becoming. But let's take it back to the beginning of your story. Where were you born? tell us about what life was like for the very youngest, Camilla.

Camilla Calberg 2:47

Mm. Yeah, I would love to. So I'm born, I'm born in, uh, in Copenhagen, but very shortly after, um, my, the arrival or the birth of my, um, my little system, a sibling, we moved to the countryside.

Caroline Sangal 3:03

Wow.

Camilla Calberg 3:04

Um, anything really was like, where can, where can we get a big house? A house big enough, uh, for this young family, but it what? How that in influenced me is that now I'm such a nature person. I love being in nature and I'd rather live in the nature, in the countryside

Caroline Sangal 3:22

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 3:23

in the, in the, in the city and also love sea. Um, and I did really just, I did horse riding. I did a lot of swimming. Uh, and I really just enjoyed that part, that early start of my, um, my childhood. I don't know where we are going on this one, I'm gonna drop it. It's something I never shared before, but it has, I think, um, paved what I'm doing right now. And at the age of seven, I, um, let see our boys in school ride. If you, if I, if you don't, if I can't ride with you on your bike, then I'm gonna hit you. And, um, it ended up in a dramatic bike crash where you could pull out my, all my teeth. Um, I think it was, I was age six or eight seven, and, um, at that point in time, I'm born in 71, that nobody really knew about what you do young child, what you, she, like, she really,

Caroline Sangal 4:37

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 4:38

could, you could literally pull out all my teeth. A long story short is that that led to like, don't know, uh, 40 plus years of dental operations and subconsciously into that I want to help other women and I don't never want to be a dentist.

Caroline Sangal 4:58

Interesting.

Camilla Calberg 4:58

but

Caroline Sangal 4:59

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 4:59

I something, I've never said this before, I just felt that it could be not interesting. But valuable to share because I know the conversations you facilitate is going to be really interesting. So I just want to share this as

Caroline Sangal 5:17

Hmm. Thank you. For, so, so you were in this horrendous bi bike crash and your teeth were like knocked in or like all like what? Like,

Camilla Calberg 5:28

Literally I was spiking, I don't know what we call it in English, but there was this boy sitting, uh, behind me and we were going downhill and I like, so he jumped off and the moment he

Caroline Sangal 5:44

Oh,

Camilla Calberg 5:44

off. I catapulted it in the air and landed, bang my head on the road.

Caroline Sangal 5:52

oh,

Camilla Calberg 5:52

do that, you go like this because literally it was like bleeding.

Caroline Sangal 5:57

oh my gosh.

Camilla Calberg 5:58

meant that they had to kind of cement my teeth, button up my jaws, because otherwise you could just literally pull them out because I got

Caroline Sangal 6:08

Oh,

Camilla Calberg 6:09

a knock, in the road because I was, yeah, I don't know. I was, yeah.

Caroline Sangal 6:15

oh my gosh. How terrifying. And like any cut, any little tiny cut in the mouth like bleeds so much. So I can't. But imagine that must have been just like terrifying. And so as you're there not quite understanding, like what just happened and now there's all this blood, how did you stay calm? How did you keep composure?

Camilla Calberg 6:39

I was, um, I was really knocked out. So the next moment I stood up and I could just feel like I had to walk to school like this,

Caroline Sangal 6:47

Wow.

Camilla Calberg 6:47

and I went up to the headmaster and I said, I need some help. I just knew

Caroline Sangal 6:52

Oh.

Camilla Calberg 6:52

that if I did this like well, and I was so, I wasn't unconscious in that moment.

Caroline Sangal 6:58

Yeah,

Camilla Calberg 6:59

I, I, when you are in such a crash, you are not awake and

Caroline Sangal 7:04

absolutely. Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 7:06

You just, I just forgot like I, this, I

Caroline Sangal 7:08

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 7:09

I need some help. Um.

Caroline Sangal 7:10

Wow.

Camilla Calberg 7:12

But I think, so my, my mom grandmom, one of them said, you born under a wrong star. But because it, it was such a sort, heavy surgeries I had to undergo to, I mean, some of my teeth were not even my real teeth. Right. And then I had a bike crash and a car crash in Dublin. And so I had some of these. Um, but it has probably built my resilience because um, yeah.

Caroline Sangal 7:47

Absolutely. Yeah. But all these like, character building things, right? It's like, in hindsight it's like, okay, actually that did help me become who I am. Okay. That it tried to get me down and, and nice try. Ha ha. But in the moment, or thinking about it now, it's like, are you kidding? Why? Like what, what purpose, um, could that serve? But

Camilla Calberg 8:09

I never thought about that, but my heart to help other people

Caroline Sangal 8:15

absolutely.

Camilla Calberg 8:16

at a very, uh, emerged at a very early stage because all these dental operations or surgeries had to undergo and people called me different names that I want to help other people.

Caroline Sangal 8:28

Yes, yes,

Camilla Calberg 8:29

because, uh, I for sure know what it means to go.

Caroline Sangal 8:33

Yeah. Yeah. And that's just not, not a want. That, that became an inherent need of yours to be able to help people with whatever they're going through. As you had been seeing, you know, from some children, maybe names and, making fun or bullying, but from adults or those who actually had greater authority, greater power. They showed you compassion and kindness and healing. And so that, wow. Okay. So that's, that's, thank you for sharing that. And, and then as you're, you know, 8, 9, 10, how is this evolving as far as like what you're enjoying doing versus what you have to do in school? Like, how are those two worlds aligning?

Camilla Calberg 9:17

So what happened at the grade five? We moved to Copenhagen to get, uh, find a better school. So, uh, we then went to the boarding school, one of the top three boarding schools in Copenhagen area. Um, and. It made, it shifted who I was because I came from a, the rural, the countryside where everybody knew everyone moving to a very rich area where nobody talked to each other, police on the streets. And, um, I couldn't really find myself in that environment. and it shaped me also in that way that I just knew. I don't know how, is that what happened inside me, but I just knew that I needed to do something else than everyone else.

Caroline Sangal 10:16

Mm.

Camilla Calberg 10:16

I was in, into high school, when everyone else went to high school, then go to university or business school, I just knew I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna compete with everyone else because then I'm gonna compete with them when at the first job. So I'm going to do, find something else. So how I was thinking was very different from how the rest of my, peers were thinking. And, um, yeah. Very

Caroline Sangal 10:47

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 10:47

this conversation is going, but I, I think it's important because that's who I am. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 10:54

Absolutely. Absolutely. So while everybody else is kind of following the status quo and kind of like, this is what you could, should do, and so that therefore that's what they will do. You're having these other things of, no, actually I don't want the standard path. I want to do something more free, more flexible, and so, uh, or, or just different, but like, and so how did that lead you? Like then what did you do? Like, let's say when it's time for finishing high school to decide what to do next, then, then what did you choose?

Camilla Calberg 11:27

Oh yeah. So I think it was more about I want to do more me, and I

Caroline Sangal 11:31

Uh.

Camilla Calberg 11:32

don't want to compete with all the bunch I I people who were graduating and competing for the same job. So what I did was in Denmark at, I don't before high school, go to US. For one year in high school. Right. But there wasn't the funds maybe. And my mom was not so happy to send me to one year in US. So I just knew I, I, I get to do something. then I very deliberately chose a university, a business school where I could go abroad.

Caroline Sangal 12:05

Ah,

Camilla Calberg 12:05

abroad two years in Denmark, and then, one year in UK, working my, do my thesis for a pharmaceutical company. Um, and then that com, that business school. Um, said you get to do an MBA. what is an MBA? When I was like in Denmark, at that point in time, it was only the CEOs who were funded MBAs, right?

Caroline Sangal 12:33

ah.

Camilla Calberg 12:33

home and I said, well, I wanna do my MBA. All right, that's a lot of money. So I found the money and, um, did some work in Denmark. I found out to do a, uh, um, work for the foreign minister in Germany. I passed the GMAT exam, uh, got the funding, and I went off against the UK to do my MBA,

Caroline Sangal 12:58

wow. Where did you go? There, where did you choose to do your MBA.

Camilla Calberg 13:02

and south, uh, Brighton South from London, and then combined also in Germany near Stuttgart.

Caroline Sangal 13:09

Wow. Wow. Okay. And, um, how did you choose that pharmaceutical company to do some thesis work? Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 13:17

A good question. My mom is a, she still is, but she does a bit of work, um, voluntarily, but I said my mom is a psychiatrist, so following her, not path, but it was what, who can I write a features for dissertation? Then she had a lot of contacts and so I knocked on the doors and I ended up obviously serving one of these companies. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 13:43

Wow. Wow. Okay. And then, so then you go and you get your MBA, which, you know, from your experience thus far, it was like, man, only CEOs do that. Did you have any inkling that you wanted to be a CEO or were you just kinda like, ah, I'm just gonna take this opportunity because it's here?

Camilla Calberg 14:00

Just an I had. I, that was the first all I had to really, um, crack open when I came back because in UK everyone went to, uh, had an MBA. Like that was just, that's what we do in Denmark. It was not what we did. So when

Caroline Sangal 14:17

Uh.

Camilla Calberg 14:18

applying for jobs, they were more interested in me. How, how tough was MBA? How much does it cost? Did you fund it? Fund it yourself? I said yes.

Caroline Sangal 14:29

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 14:29

I actually were considering moving back to the UK to find a job because I couldn't find a job in Denmark. And by applying then then. Um, BP at that point in time has said, I'll send out all the, um, SVPs to countries, and that was one SVP in Denmark and for a job and I was overqualified. And then she knows the UK system and that's how I, that was a role created for me in BP UK headquarters. And so I moved back to UK.

Caroline Sangal 15:09

Wow. So this, but, so there was a woman that saw you, saw your value, saw your potential, and made a job for you to be able to do and you. Saw the opportunity again and were like, why not? Now had you been interested in, you know, BP kind of products before, like, I mean, growing up in the countryside, I just like that there's power and things, you know, to do, but had, did you have any sort of passion for the world or the environment or fuel or any of those sorts or just,

Camilla Calberg 15:49

No, not at all.

Caroline Sangal 15:51

yeah.

Camilla Calberg 15:51

the international sphere. And in Denmark, at that point in time, you had BP gas stations all over, so of could relate to the brand.

Caroline Sangal 16:00

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 16:01

but I was, I was looking for a place where I could unleash my potential

Caroline Sangal 16:09

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 16:09

she saw my, value and me hungry to grow, hungry to learn. And, um, it turned out to be the best ever step in my career to, to do that.

Caroline Sangal 16:24

Yeah, tell a little bit more about that. Like what made that experience to be so foundational for you?

Camilla Calberg 16:30

Yeah. Because it was so first step was, which really was interesting. I was hired as an assistant and before I even started, I got promoted. I love that. Right.

Caroline Sangal 16:47

pretty good. Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 16:48

And yeah. And in BP, at least with, um, the department, the amazing leader. I got to serve. It was all responsibility at a very young age and go out and do market research in Europe. So I had from day one, a lot of responsibility from whole brand cash BP in Europe. And I was, I, I don't know where I, I ended up being a high flyer, moving from project to project, bigger projects being calling, we are going to do this reorg at 10 o'clock at night. Do you want to join as you cannot say to anyone what's going on. And there was just people on my team who believed so much in me to help me grow. And, um, it just became foundational for me daring to do more and say yes to more. Um, and that really became a very foundational seven years in my career. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 18:00

And so then with that being such an excellent experience, like why in the world would you ever choose to leave that?

Camilla Calberg 18:06

Yeah. That's good. after, um, the biggest reorg. So I was working out of UK serving Europe, but living in Denmark. And the next step was to relocate to London at a and go from an expat to be a, a UK employee.

Caroline Sangal 18:31

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 18:31

Money-wise, that was no longer interesting, looking at how much a flat cost in London compared to how much here. Uh, so that was the one consideration. The other consideration was, uh, my grandmom, I love my grandmom. I so that separation being suddenly on a local, local terms and conditions, I couldn't fly home

Caroline Sangal 18:56

Ah.

Camilla Calberg 18:57

as I, I did. And, uh, that was also an opportunity to go and serve Asia, but I found, nah, maybe it's time for me to leave and find something else.

Caroline Sangal 19:11

Hmm

Camilla Calberg 19:12

an easy choice. I, I had about a year to think through and a lot of conversations what to do next, but it was time.

Caroline Sangal 19:21

hmm. And so then what did you choose to do after that?

Camilla Calberg 19:25

Yeah. So traveling seven years, right? I've got a bit. Even though you have, I had a chauffeur, I have a business class, da, da da. You get a bit. Okay. I'm a bit tired now, so I chose to serve Shell and I say, okay, I want to travel less, Caroline, I started to travel more

Caroline Sangal 19:47

Oh

Camilla Calberg 19:50

and the next job was for me to serve Australia, US and Canada, me being based in Denmark. So after three months, I knew that once this assignment that I was on was completed, going to find another job because. At the, least for me, when you travel so much,

Caroline Sangal 20:13

yeah.

Camilla Calberg 20:13

to lose out of life. Not that I, you just want to find something that you're not gonna take the plane to go to work

Caroline Sangal 20:22

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 20:24

many hours just by getting to the airport, being in the airport, getting off. Like I was just, I'd done it I

Caroline Sangal 20:32

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 20:33

I was, I was filled. Uh, no longer look looking forward to that. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 20:38

So it starts taking a toll on your, so I, I'm a big proponent of there's per your performance, your relationships, and your wellbeing. So while your performance was great, I imagine that your, you know, personal relationships while having to be in the airport all the time and your own wellbeing from all this all over the world, jet lag and all of that. Like, it's really starting to, uh, it lost its appeal, I guess.

Camilla Calberg 21:02

Yeah, it was no longer fancy to have a whatever you had because it was just a means to go to work

Caroline Sangal 21:09

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 21:10

were just playing out. Um, and it was, it, Shell wasn't, it was a good, Shell is an amazing company, but for me, working, going from BP to Shell, different environment, different cultures, you get to build up different cheerleaders. just a very different experience. So I chose very quickly to say, no something

Caroline Sangal 21:33

not me. Now I forgot to ask you from your like childlike view, what did you think it meant for someone to be successful?

Camilla Calberg 21:44

That's a good

Caroline Sangal 21:44

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 21:46

Um, to work hard, so always seeing my mom work hard. Right. Um, see, well if you want to go have that vacation, do you want me to work hard or want me to be home and have a hot chocolate ready when you are, uh, come home from school? My dad was home because he did, he was a professional musician, so he in the afternoon or late mornings and concerts in the evening. But that of, um, seeing my mom being so dedicated is also her calling, but I definitely copied that of working hard was the only way to be successful.

Caroline Sangal 22:30

And did you pick up on any musical influences from your father?

Camilla Calberg 22:34

Mm-hmm. I played. Um, so we was, we had no choice, my sister and I, uh,

Caroline Sangal 22:41

Ha.

Camilla Calberg 22:42

to learn to play the piano. Uh, I played the little, the sax, uh, the drums, and I think that's it. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 22:52

Wow, that's still pretty, uh, pretty varied, you know, like you got all the, all the instrument families, but yeah. That's interesting. So you got this work ethic, uh, view of success from your mother's perseverance and your dad also influential in you learning some musical outlets, maybe some, and wa was it relaxing for you if you played the instruments?

Camilla Calberg 23:18

Yeah. When you go and play the piano, you could just sit for hours. It was like meditating. Just really create your own music and it is just like really creating your own bubble. Uh, and, um, yeah, with such a relaxing. Um, not experience, but it's really relaxing to play the piano. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 23:40

And did you keep a piano with you all these times and travels? Like had you carried that along or did you put those on a shelf while pursuing, uh, work?

Camilla Calberg 23:52

Uh, I put it on the shelf, uh, but whenever there is a piano, I love to play.

Caroline Sangal 23:58

Uh, yes. Yes, yes. Yeah, my kids play that. Yeah. I.

Camilla Calberg 24:02

And then, do you call Moon Shine? I can't remember some of these in English. Um, but I, and I would like to, right now we don't have space for a big piano, but I'd love to take it up because it's, I know now how important it's for the soul to be fulfilled

Caroline Sangal 24:20

Yes.

Camilla Calberg 24:20

Just sitting there and the music is emerging. It is like, it's really meditative.

Caroline 24:29

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow@nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Caroline Sangal 25:06

Yeah. And especially if you, it sounds like you, you may have had some inherent abilities maybe passed down from your father's side, and when you do have these things where you're starting to lose track of time and you're just immersed in that world from utilizing part of who you are, you're absolutely right. In order to be holistically fulfilled, that needs time, uh, needs time to be able to be expressed. So, okay. All right. So now you're back at Shell and you're realizing, Ooh, I don't think I like this. Uh, I mean, I, I don't think this is my story anymore. I think I'd like to do something different. And so then how did that evolve? And then, then what happened?

Camilla Calberg 25:46

Yeah. I never, the first time I talk about this open up, but this is good. I was very quick at this is not my place. This is not where I'm gonna, uh, feel fulfilled. we were rolling at out um, IT, SAP. And IBM was, leading that, um, rollout. So I knocked on IBM's door they saw me and nine months before it was like pregnant time, right? Um, before rollout or, or go live. I made the agreement to move over to IBM. That

Caroline Sangal 26:28

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 26:29

in done deal.

Caroline Sangal 26:30

Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. But so far it's like you are working at some phenomenally impressive global companies and now this is now your third global com with, and so you are getting to see from the inside out what it's really like to be within some of these companies and to feel how awesome it is to have leadership around you that supports you, sees you, wants the best for you, and to start to realize in another like, Ooh, okay, there, this is interesting, but not my fit. And then you, you get to IBM. So then how was it like inside IBM? What did you experience there? How was that for you?

Camilla Calberg 27:14

I, I loved IBM, um, I joined when there was a financial crisis in 2008, so that was a lot of, um, turbulence. Um, I stayed there for I think seven years or so, and the opportunity that got, I think most of us get when we worked for serve IBM is that to be on work on so many different accounts. So I was suddenly, I think, based on everything I've done in BP and Shell, uh. There was, um, again, I was traveling and I was like,

Caroline Sangal 27:48

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 27:49

Uh,

Caroline Sangal 27:49

Oh.

Camilla Calberg 27:50

but I was on big accounts, uh, bridging, um, and kind of me, not meditating, but mediating between the client side and the, and IBM side. just really, um, I really enjoyed it and I learned a lot what it means to be a consultant.

Caroline Sangal 28:08

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 28:09

and to, and that was a time where I started to grow my interests in, in leadership dynamics. Without I, I just picked it up because I was oftentimes in projects or on task where something was not working.

Caroline Sangal 28:30

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 28:31

Um, and yes, so it is natural of course, then I go in and jump in and assess what is not working. But the more I got into that, the more curious it became about leadership dynamics. Yeah. Which

Caroline Sangal 28:46

And what, yeah. And what were some of the dynamics you, you know, things are not working and what, where were, what were you starting to formulate as maybe some of the reasons for

Camilla Calberg 28:56

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Sangal 28:56

not working? What particular dynamics or traits or characteristics of the leaders were you starting to see?

Camilla Calberg 29:03

Yeah. So there was a few things I started to see. Um. I started to see that we do not always, and I think we can uni make that universal, that we do not always understand what is really going on. So we assume something, but we don't take time to understand the friction.

Caroline Sangal 29:30

Mm.

Camilla Calberg 29:31

And I went in to understand the friction

Caroline Sangal 29:34

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 29:35

and then translated that to leadership language. And I, so I ended up, and I'm a strong advocate on LinkedIn and my videos to be a trusted advisor because I ended up being a trusted advisor because it was just so natural In BP, I worked out from the headquarters in London, so it was easy for me to be in that corridor. I, that was,

Caroline Sangal 30:01

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 30:01

have respect for people, but it's not the same as feeling less than,

Caroline Sangal 30:05

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Camilla Calberg 30:08

So up the space as a trusted advisor became so natural for me when, and then say, I think you should say this next time you see him. So guiding leaders, because they have focused on delivering, they have focused on serving client problems, but helping them understand what they should also focus on, so that as a tremendous value.

Caroline Sangal 30:35

Yeah, and definitely, yeah, so helping them refine and understand beyond the scope that they saw some of the underlying communication dynamics, the underlying, inherent ways of how they were operating from who they were, and then how they could adjust to have that great relationship with whoever they were were talking to. Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of been very big lately on, you know, the leader within so many times people are approaching leadership challenges and problems from some sort of external surface view and really. It's, it's more of like, but wait, how are you wired and how is that expressing? And how can we consider and bring yourself awareness to some other things of how to adjust? So you're intuitively doing this based on some of the things. Okay. And so then with this kind of, you're, you're becoming this trusted advisor, you're having all these things. Then why in the world would you ever leave IBM? Like, what happened then?

Camilla Calberg 31:32

That's a good question. I can't remember exactly, but there was something happening in the economic world around, uh, two, 2013, and I just felt that it's time to leave if I ha if I wa there was job, enough assignments, stuff, but I had to travel and I just thought, I've been traveling for eight years. I, I felt I, I have, I've done my part there. I don't need to, I didn't need to travel. Um, so I said maybe it's time. And it was not easy because I've been like, for most of my career, companies, global reach and, and then I say it may be time to go local. It's

Caroline Sangal 32:19

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 32:20

like my entire language. My, in my corporate, my career is English is so much easier for me to talk, speak English than do it in English. English because everything I done. For

Caroline Sangal 32:32

Yes,

Camilla Calberg 32:32

been English.

Caroline Sangal 32:34

yes.

Camilla Calberg 32:35

Um, but I decided that, okay, now it's time. And throughout my career, many people have said, I think you should go, um, and create something on your own. Um, and so, but before I did that, I went to, um, another company and um, a few years later I reorg. I got, I got fired and then I think that was a bridge to, okay, now I go solo.

Caroline Sangal 33:03

You got fired or you got, uh, like laid off? Like reduced, enforced,

Camilla Calberg 33:07

yeah. So what is for me, the same but fired, but reduced in force. But that

Caroline Sangal 33:13

yeah.

Camilla Calberg 33:14

interesting here is that when we say reduced in force what do you mean?

Caroline Sangal 33:22

So like, uh, this means, so there's, so here it can be if you're fired, that's like for cause, like you did something big, bad, wrong, bad, horrible, you could never be employed again. There is no severance package. You are just straight fired. That's it. And then a reduction in force or a layoff is more like, Hey, our business business needs have changed. Thanks. Good job. You, uh, here's a little bit of a, uh, we're so sorry. We're gonna have to part ways and we're gonna make it a little bit easier for you. So depending on your years of service or the terms of the agreement, uh, we're going to give you a little tiny cushion, but you're on your way out. Thanks so much. Don't sue us. Here's your package, sign this package, you'll get paid a little bit more. And we agree, it's just friends parting like so. So there's like a little bit of a different now it either way, when it is not your choice and your job is ending, it feels so bad. And for like, this is from like the, the global recruiter hat of mine. Like it was always part of my trying to discern and understand, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean by that? Tell me more. Because for the next employer, it absolutely matters whether it was a, ooh, so sorry, tiny business change our bad, you're free to go. Versus a, you broke some important rules so bad that you're walked out the door immediately. So like that distinction and, and it matters also for the person describing their experience to that next HR talent acquisition person. Accurately so that they don't get eliminated based on an assumption. If that meant, yeah. Does that help?

Camilla Calberg 35:08

yeah, it does. Yeah. So it was a, um, a layoff, but it was, was really interesting because that was a reorg. So, most of my career I've done reorgs so I

Caroline Sangal 35:18

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 35:19

to do the scripts for HR blah, blah. And I was leading this reorg, when it came, and, um, then I got one, yeah, there was reorgs in different departments. I've been running that one out. And then I just know the script because I scripted, uh,

Caroline Sangal 35:38

Right. And then it, and then next thing you know, you're part of it and they didn't tell you you're part. Thank you. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 35:45

I got this email. I was like, well, I kind of wrote it. I, I found it so funny. It was not the place for me to, to stay. So it was absolutely the best thing. And there was also the point in time, this was really. Um, I think the moment where everything cracked open in my personal life,

Caroline Sangal 36:05

Hmm,

Camilla Calberg 36:06

very unhappy, but also serving hr, working out from HR, they did not know how to hold the space for me and see me. Anyway. Um, I got, I got my

Caroline Sangal 36:16

but what, but what's underneath? Right? What? But what's underneath that? So like, there's a little, and I don't, I'm not, I don't wanna pry, but, so it's like you're doing well in your work, but now something is unraveling in your personal life and then they're not able to help, like the company who you're spending more time than people in your personal life. They're not giving space for you to support. But like, could you share a little bit more? Do you feel comfortable sharing a little more?

Camilla Calberg 36:43

that's also the very first new, uh, article on LinkedIn. I wrote this. It's really, really interesting, uh, from Dynamics perspective and also what's going on in HR. I think from what I experienced is that. At that point in time, eh, my daughter was, I, I, I joined a few months later, I got pregnant, um, to one in Denmark. You get time off. So I got one year off, eh, come back. And that was Rio. I, I got kind of downgraded, but at that time was su surviving at home and every time, it's like, so many years ago, but I still feel, um, my, my body response response. I would leave at home and I would go straight to my parents who, um, live close to the office and I would sit in the kitchen crying. I was so afraid to leave the, the, the person I have spent 10 years with. What about my daughter? And in all this call, um, I've apparently, uh. I could not have operated of at my highest. And um, I still I still try to do my best. And I think for many years I was excellent and very at wearing masks, but nobody asked me, are you doing? So I

Caroline Sangal 38:12

Oh,

Camilla Calberg 38:12

once, uh, to say, okay, this is really weird. There was this really strange situation. Um, also there I was a trusted advisor to CFO and other people, but there was one, um, project manager I couldn't connect with bond with. And uh, this really strange, there was this meeting and said, now Camilla, you are going to facilitate this meeting with, there was so much tension in this room. And what he would be doing, Caroline, is that he would sit not around the table, but he would sit in the corner just watching me facilitate this conversation.

Caroline Sangal 38:52

Oh wow.

Camilla Calberg 38:53

I found that really strange as a leader

Caroline Sangal 38:56

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 38:56

pull out. So I reported that and I was working out of HR. I said, I don't know, but this is not just the way I think it should be. And I cracked open, obviously I was so vulnerable because my private life was

Caroline Sangal 39:13

Yeah,

Camilla Calberg 39:15

and I was told Camilla, this is just how it is to work with big bosses. So we give you 10 sessions to a psychologist so you can go and make yourself stronger. And I sat there Caroline.

Caroline Sangal 39:34

So it's like you are the problem. You need to fix yourself. It's not this toxic guy in the corner that's making things extremely, we're gonna protect him. But now that you reported a problem, you're now becoming the problem. And to solve your problem, we're gonna give you 10 sessions with a doctor to go straighten your head out. Like, come on. Oh.

Camilla Calberg 39:54

sat there, and this cannot be true. Nobody has in been interested in me, and I've reported in a problem, and I just have to accept the problem because I became the problem.

Caroline Sangal 40:07

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 40:08

So I was so glad. And then in this session, all these 10 sessions to say, is this confidential? Not confidential? It's confidential. Then everything cracked open and say, I get to move from this person. I'm spending my life. Well, and it was a catapult as that. I wanted to, this is the very first time I share this open, but I think it's, it's about having people on your team, but also that this, maybe sometimes HR are blindfolded and are not as good as really reading the energy

Caroline Sangal 40:41

Right.

Camilla Calberg 40:42

I think it's, could be a different conversation, but I, I, serve a lot of women who report and try to build psychological, safe environments, but when they really, I know safe environments who show up and report problems. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 41:02

I think I, and I've noticed that too. And it's so sad because, you know, you think HR human resources should be there to care about each human and their individual needs. And even in, you know, in some of my own experiences, yeah. Reporting a problem backfires that you are the problem. And then the human resources though, takes this overarching view of protect the company, right. Not necessarily serve the humans to the best of its ability. I think that's a huge, yeah. It's like we talk about emotional intelligence, we talk about empathy, we talk about psychological safety and in some things they're just words on a page, but they're not actually actions from within a company. And then that, that then leaves space and reasons for why we now both exist outside of that environment to serve those unmet needs that, and maybe individual HR leaders may want to, but then they feel this constraint of they're there to represent and keep the company safe. And so they have to play that protect the guy in the corner, not the person who's vulnerable and ex clearly experiencing and pointing out something that needs to be addressed. Oh, such a. Such an important dynamic. I know, right? How did we get here? But it's, but it's so needed.

Camilla Calberg 42:34

It is exactly, I was shocked. I dared to cry and mom said, never cry. I also write that only never cry in front of other people because they think you are weak. Right?

Caroline Sangal 42:49

Oh,

Camilla Calberg 42:49

later I got, I got laid off, whatever. I could have been laid off anyway, but I had started to report some problems, I believe, without everything. I think now we know that why I held women

Caroline Sangal 43:05

yeah.

Camilla Calberg 43:05

navigate toxic spaces, but I found it so weird that I had to accept toxic work environments. So you go and see a psychologist because you are weak. was like it,

Caroline Sangal 43:20

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 43:21

because my mom is a psychiatrist. It didn't, I didn't have the language then. But it, it, it felt so wrong. It's not that I felt misjudged, but I just think this is crazy.

Caroline Sangal 43:35

It's betrayal. It's betrayal because you put your loyalty into this company for where you're giving your time, effort, and energy and doing your best, regardless of what's happening in the world around you, your personal, uh, situations, being a new mom, all of these things, you're still showing up fully to the best of your abilities in those moments. And having come from all of those other companies where you are a trust, you were a trusted advisor. And when you would bring up something of, Hey, maybe here's how you could change the next time those people listened, and this is the first case then of this other company operating differently because of their leaders and, and then, and then now, ha ha ha jokes on them because not only did you take those 10 sessions, but you raised it up to like becoming even more of, no, I'm going to, you know, fight against this injustice and be a voice to help others be heard, be seen, and get that support that wasn't there, uh, for you.

Camilla Calberg 44:47

This is my body's responding. It's the first time I ever speak to this about this in open, but it's so important. Yeah.

Caroline Sangal 44:55

Extremely important. Thank you for, for sharing that. Because also sometimes when, when those things happen to us in the workplace and somebody tries to like course correct our valid feelings and experiences, sometimes we can feel so ashamed. That even happened to us, and we can try to like squish and become smaller to fit into the narrative that they're protecting. Um,

Camilla Calberg 45:24

But that was not me because I

Caroline Sangal 45:26

yeah. No,

Camilla Calberg 45:28

so I think I needed to have, the universe gave me that assignment because I didn't feel that I needed to squeeze. I felt I used it. I used it as my, uh, what's the English word, but

Caroline Sangal 45:43

like a, like a battle cry. Like it's cracking you open into this new thing. Yeah,

Camilla Calberg 45:50

Exactly. It pushed me forward because I think I cannot be the only one. This is so wrong, but you, I'm not gonna sit in with this.

Caroline Sangal 45:58

yeah,

Camilla Calberg 45:58

And I wrote an article about this experience because what if they just asked, how are you working

Caroline Sangal 46:06

yeah.

Camilla Calberg 46:07

from hr? Nobody asked me, how are you just see a psychologist because you're too weak? It's like, hello. I, um,

Caroline Sangal 46:18

Yeah,

Camilla Calberg 46:20

and maybe that's my cha. One of my, the reason that for me doing the work is that I just got, I didn't get may I just swear. I was like, I didn't get pissed. I didn't get, I just thought this is, it cannot be true that I'm working out and serve HR and I have to accept toxic people.

Caroline Sangal 46:43

yeah,

Camilla Calberg 46:43

wrong.

Caroline Sangal 46:45

yeah. And so then, and so now that propels you forward, and then what did you, how did you fashion this then into this empire now that you have Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 46:58

Yeah, so the, the course was okay, um, get a dec cobble, which then ended me, that personally into like becoming more resilient. But at the same time, um, that layoff, um, was a catapult, or catapulted me into where I'm now I've been, first I one business, but solely consultancy as a trusted advisor. And then later on, after COVID, um, coaching to coaching and mentoring, because it was me, for me, more important to, help other people become more resilient.

Caroline Sangal 47:43

Yes,

Camilla Calberg 47:44

Yeah, so I went from do the doing to teaching other people how to become more resilient because I had to learn it myself.

Caroline Sangal 47:55

Yes. Yes. Oh, okay. And now, how do, how do people that are feeling some sort of way and feel like they might need help, like how do they come to find you and how do you help them?

Camilla Calberg 48:08

Mm. So they find me primarily on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn also some people come from YouTube. I have a lot of videos on how to pitch yourself from the mindset perspective when you want to find a next job. I talk about trusted advisor going from a doer to a trusted advisor, and um, mainly reach out because my story resonate with them.

Caroline Sangal 48:37

Hmm.

Camilla Calberg 48:38

Like playing small, having accepted too much, tolerated too much, wanting to no longer play small. And that's what I helped them build know, even this morning I had a conversation with my daughter, like, have respect for yourself first, and then love yourself first. Not love and respect everyone else because then you don't respect yourself. And that's what I help. Um, those who are in my world set healthier boundaries because I didn't know what it was. I had to learn it the hard way. But the more we've respect ourselves, the more we love ourselves, the more and the trusted advisor, I've been a trusted advisor for 20 years, right?

Caroline Sangal 49:18

Yeah.

Camilla Calberg 49:18

they want to be a trusted advisor, but they end up being the doer

Caroline Sangal 49:23

Yes.

Camilla Calberg 49:24

we don't know how to ask bold questions. When this toxic or CEO waited, dominating, then we squeeze ourselves and okay, I'm gonna do this. And they don't get to say what they want to say, and then I just knew if I just had said it, then we would have done it differently as, I help them to calm in the power and lead with a heart of service and a heart of authenticity. Not loudness, but boldness.

Caroline Sangal 49:54

I love it. And it's interesting because even going back to that 7-year-old bike accident, something tried to silence your voice. That happened a couple different times. And what did you do? You held and supported your voice and you asked for help and allowed yourself to be helped by others. And now you propel and you do that for everyone else who comes into your world too. It's, it is powerful. Just straight and I, you know, I think your, yeah, your testament to your resilience of, no, no, no, this isn't gonna get me down. Wait a minute, this is, you're trying to silence me and I'm going to, I know there are good people here. Maybe that's partially your, your mom and seeing that in her work ethic also, she's helping so many people going through challenges. So that just became an ingrained thing in you that you express so, so much.

Camilla Calberg 51:00

Wow. See, I just knew I had to share this

Gallery View 51:04

Yeah, and that is so beautiful and so powerful. My body responded because. That notch download that I just have to share with you what happened when I was seven. I remember. I don't know why I feel I have to, and it's the first time ever I shared it on a show. Yeah. I just felt that something amazing is going to unfold and you just closed it so powerfully and beautifully because. s- It wanted me to stay silent. Right. But I still carried my voice to school. Yeah. It was just... it's interesting how we reflect on this, uh, and how important it is not to even, he was everyone who is toxic or struggling with a lower self, right? But even that, I did not let, I did not allow it. To make me less than or to suffer, even though I went through a lot of

Camilla Calberg 52:04

suffering.

Gallery View 52:06

Uh, but it, um, I still stand strong. Yes,

Caroline Sangal 52:10

and

Gallery View 52:11

not only stand strong, but.

Caroline Sangal 52:12

You

Gallery View 52:13

become the way and the voice for so many others. to who may not have had those experiences that you had where your voice was quiet and you're like, wait a minute. I don't think so.

Caroline Sangal 52:23

No,

Gallery View 52:24

no, no.

Caroline Sangal 52:24

And

Gallery View 52:25

there are gonna be people who help me through this, and I'm gonna help others. But

Caroline Sangal 52:28

for

Gallery View 52:29

this may be the first time that they're starting to feel, wait, you know, or, or question or,

Caroline Sangal 52:35

you know?

Gallery View 52:35

know. And then you provide that safe space for them to not only open up, but to reconnect with their power and to carry it. Forward as you have done so, so powerfully and beautifully. Yeah. Um, I have to ask

Caroline Sangal 52:52

like

Gallery View 52:52

now, from all of these things, you know, happening, now we know yes they did indeed happen for you, but like how do you define authentic success for you now from this vantage point?

Camilla Calberg 53:07

Ooh,

Gallery View 53:07

that's a good, how do I define success? Okay. To me, success. Is very different

Camilla Calberg 53:19

Just

Gallery View 53:19

have to work hard and have the show for, which that one was very successful, but to contribute to other people's lives and

Camilla Calberg 53:33

be authentic

Gallery View 53:35

with a heart of serving others so that they, I can help them grow. Was kind of where my voice kind of was silenced right when I got laid off I wa- um, but that's now what success means to me or is for me is to help others. Yeah. So beautiful.

Caroline Sangal 53:59

So,

Gallery View 54:00

so, so beautiful. Okay, remind us, where can people find you if they've heard something today and wanna be served by your voice, uh, and helping them to find yours? Where are the best places

Caroline Sangal 54:12

that

Gallery View 54:12

they can connect with you? Camilla? Mm. Thank you so much for that. So on LinkedIn. I think we mentioned it a few times but- Yeah. I'm so happy to summarize because it's so important. On LinkedIn, I have various videos and some of the videos that I, like really go viral right now is how to pitch yourself in interviews, really owning your voice and being of service. A trusted advisor I talked about. I think that's really a go-to resource if you're looking for even your promotion or your next dream job. Show up as a trusted advisor not as a doer.

Camilla Calberg 54:50

So, um,

Gallery View 54:51

So, uh, I helped so many people

Camilla Calberg 54:53

break through, uh,

Gallery View 54:55

uh, and land higher salaries. So we want that as well, right? And on LinkedIn, I post almost daily.

Camilla Calberg 55:02

Um,

Gallery View 55:03

so find me on LinkedIn. There's only one

Camilla Calberg 55:05

Camilla Calberg,

Gallery View 55:05

Kalberg, so it should be pretty easy. And then, uh, my we-

Camilla Calberg 55:10

website, camillacalberg.com.

Gallery View 55:12

Various, resources. I run some workshops, intensives, uh, you can also schedule a, a one-on-one call if you feel that's it. So be happy to serve you whatever way is best for you. Awesome. Thank you so, so much, Camilla, for sharing your voice, for your resilience, thank you so much for being part of Your Next Success, and I am so excited to see what your next success becomes and all the lives that you continue to impact. Mm. Thank you,

Camilla Calberg 55:43

Caroline,

Gallery View 55:44

for having me and for creating for, facilitating, for navigating such a powerful conversation. I did not even know where

Camilla Calberg 55:54

to

Gallery View 55:55

to go, go next, but you, you closed the loop so beautifully. So thank you for being you and for hosting this. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

56:06

Camilla, thank you so much for sharing your story, your perspective, and the work you're doing to help others lead with greater clarity and trust. Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.