0:02

What if everything you've been through, even the unexpected and unwanted challenges, were preparing you for your next success? If this sounds intriguing, you'll enjoy meeting John DeDakis in this episode. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give the Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. Joining us now journalist, novelist and writing coach John DeDakis. John is a former editor on CNN's the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer. During John's 45 year career in journalism, he was a White House correspondent during Ronald Reagan's presidency. John is the author of six award-winning mystery suspense thriller novels. Plus, he's a manuscript editor and motivational speaker. John's specialty is helping wannabe writers become published authors. He also inspires people struggling with grief to use writing as a way to find healing. His career was sharing stories of others, and in this episode you'll learn more of his story, including his childhood, and the Vietnam era decision that changed everything. You'll hear tests of his integrity, how grief became his greatest creative fuel, and you'll also hear how he walked away from corporate success and said, I was free, man. I was finally free. This is the story behind the storyteller. Listen for clues into what is possible for your own story.

Caroline 2:36

John DeDakis, welcome to Your Next Success. I am just thrilled for the conversation we're about to have.

John DeDakis 2:44

Thank you, Caroline. It's good to be here

Caroline 2:46

You have had such an amazing career and pivots and transitions into who you're becoming, each step building on the last, and, uh, I know you now help a lot of people, um, even in trying to tell their stories and, and coaching them and, and utilizing so much of the wisdom and lessons you've learned throughout your career. We'll get to that and let's start at the beginning. Uh, where were you born? What was life like for the very youngest little John?

John DeDakis 3:21

my goodness, I was born in La Crosse, Wisconsin, which is right along the Mississippi River at that bend. And uh, it was a great place to grow up. It was a city of about 40 or 50,000 people, so it was big enough so that it wasn't monotonous, but it was small enough that you weren't lost in the shuffle. And, uh, my dad was a lawyer, my mom was an elementary school teacher, and I was loved and I knew it, I was also privileged. And I don't think I did know that. And I think it took me decades to realize I was born on second base when a lot of people didn't have the right to suit up, much less play the game. So, um. Yeah. But, but growing up was good. That doesn't mean that I had an idyllic childhood because I was a scaredy cat. You know, I was skinny. I, you know, my nickname in the, in the neighborhood was skinny bones. Right. You know, the bully. Yeah. The bullies would pick on me. And I mean, not always. I mean, because I learned quickly that humor is a great way to diffuse any kind of potential problem. And so, you know, I found that it was best to make friends as opposed to, uh, you know, get into fights.

Caroline 4:36

Interesting. And did you have any siblings?

John DeDakis 4:39

Uh, older sister, my sister Georgia was eight years older,

Caroline 4:42

Oh, wow. Oh, so did she become a little bit of like a, a, a, a second mom figure almost as, as

John DeDakis 4:50

No,

Caroline 4:51

she gets

John DeDakis 4:51

the, I was the bratty little brother, you know, I mean, she was brilliant. She could have been a concert pianist, you know, a surgeon. She was, you know, she had a lot going for her. And so in, in some ways, I had her on a pedestal.

Caroline 5:07

Oh, okay. So your mom was a elementary school teacher. What did she teach exactly? Like a certain grade or,

John DeDakis 5:14

Third grade?

Caroline 5:15

wow. And, and you then went to school where she was teaching.

John DeDakis 5:19

No, she, uh, she, we,

Caroline 5:23

How'd that work out? Tell us. Yeah. Where did you go to school then? Yeah,

John DeDakis 5:27

I mean, you know, she was at a different,

Caroline 5:28

of

John DeDakis 5:29

different school district and, uh, and so, but she knew all my teachers

Caroline 5:34

course.

John DeDakis 5:35

and she would say, you know, if I ever hear anything from your teachers, I'm gonna believe them.

Caroline 5:42

Oh, interesting, interesting. My, uh, my dad was a teacher, then a principal, then a superintendent, and so he was always like, there's two sides to a story, and then we'll figure out what, you know, where the truth is. Um,

John DeDakis 5:57

Yeah.

Caroline 5:58

yeah, my,

John DeDakis 5:59

A good journalist.

Caroline 6:01

He's amazing. he's just great. He's, yeah, he's, he's an amazing man. He can, a mediator, a coach, a mentor, an inspirer, a dad, and still human, all in the same.

John DeDakis 6:14

I would imagine that's one of the reasons you went into doing what you do.

Caroline 6:20

Ooh. I mean, I did go, I, I in multiple chapters. Yes. Uh, as far as, you know, he was like, girl. 'cause I thought I wanted to be a teacher. Um, I, and I loved the school environment and was very structured and they had a, you know, here's what you need to do to get an A. And so I knew what I needed to do to get an A. Um, and, but I also loved that, um, classroom kind of environment, the teaching and all of those things. And so, yes, what I do is partially from my dad's encouragement to not be a teacher to, said, girl,

John DeDakis 6:56

isn't there a teaching component to what you

Caroline 6:58

ab Absolutely, yes. And he said, you do not need to be a trained educator to educate. And I believe that the lifestyle you wanna be accustomed to might not be suited for just a straight teaching path. You're good at math, you're good at science. Women in STEM is a thing. I highly encourage you to follow those, to chase those things. And in the future you could always come back and you could always end up doing, and I was like, oh, okay. Okay. Yes. So

John DeDakis 7:27

That sounds like you really had some great, you know, guidance from him.

Caroline 7:33

still,

John DeDakis 7:34

Yes,

Caroline 7:34

still,

John DeDakis 7:35

yeah. Nice.

Caroline 7:37

Yes. but many people, um, their lives and their careers have been shaped positively from his impact. And if I could only do a small fraction of what he, he's done, the, the world will be better. So. We'll, yeah. Well thanks for that. Okay. So we're back to you and your mom being a teacher and keeping track, uh, and trying to understand. You know what you're doing, not doing and making sure that the story, uh, is an accurate one. You're in school, in elementary school growing up in a beautiful place. Were there particular school subjects that you liked more than others?

John DeDakis 8:21

Well, I hated math. I'm terrible in math

Caroline 8:24

Interesting.

John DeDakis 8:25

not good in foreign languages. Um, so those are, you know, science not so much either. I really was good at, you know, English, Social Studies, that kind of stuff

Caroline 8:37

Interesting, interesting. And then outside of school, what kind of things did you enjoy doing?

John DeDakis 8:43

playing tennis. I was, I played tennis a lot and I was also in community theater.

Caroline 8:50

Oh, how did you get introduced to community theater?

John DeDakis 8:53

Um, when I was a, uh, well, I was in, I was probably in school plays when I, even in junior high, but it, the bug bit when I was a, uh, a sophomore in high school and, um, I can't remember exactly how it happened, but I tried out for, um, a play, uh, a one act play called The Sandbox by, uh, Edward Albee. It's Theater of the Absurd. And I got the part of granny and, uh, this is before the beard. And,

Caroline 9:24

tell, that work out? You know.

John DeDakis 9:26

it worked out really well. And you know, Had an old Granny voice, you know, and, and, and we did, uh, state, uh, um, forensic competitions. And so we traveled to high schools all around the state and got an, a first place in the state competition. so, and the, and the, the speech teacher, George McClendon. Was, you know, the director for the play, but he was also active in the community theater. And so I, I also tried out for productions there and, you know, did pretty well, at least during my high school years. know, theater is a time suck and

Caroline 10:07

Absolutely. Yes.

John DeDakis 10:09

know, the old, the, you know, the more, uh, I went along, I didn't have time for it anymore, but I was preparing to go into law and politics and so theater was, you know, part of the skillset for that because part of politics is theater, it's performance.

Caroline 10:28

Absolutely. Uh, yes. and you can have a story, but then for other people to listen to your story, it needs to be a bit entertaining. So there's, that as well. So, so where did you start, you know, putting this target of you wanted to go into law or politics or something, you know, 'cause you're, you're, now you're talking about in high school, you don't just do high school theater. You're now doing community theater that's next level up. And at what age and stage did this target of what you thought you wanted to do, start shaping?

John DeDakis 11:05

Started to come together actually when probably I was about, I don't know, 13 or 14. Kennedy was assassinated when I was 13, there was obviously wall to wall coverage and I became much more aware of journalism. Um, not that I wanted to be a journalist, but I was aware of politics. And so I would say from probably the age of about, I don't know, 14, 15 until maybe 19 or 20, I was really serious about using the law as a stepping stone to get into politics and the career trajectory, if it had turned out the way I had intended, I would've been the guy sworn in on the capital steps in 2008 instead of that guy from Kenya or wherever Trump says he was from. So, uh, but for the good of the country, I decided to go in a different direction.

Caroline 11:59

There's a lot there. Hold on, for the good of the country, you decided to go.

John DeDakis 12:04

Well, I'm rethink, I'm rethinking that. Now,

Caroline 12:08

Okay. So how did, well, I guess from your earliest lens growing up as a child, in Wisconsin, what did you think it was to be a successful adult or a successful member of society? Was there some vision in your mind of this is what it means to be successful and so therefore this is what I'm going for, or this is what I'm not gonna be like, what?

John DeDakis 12:33

That's a really intriguing question, and I don't know if I've ever been asked that before because I'm, I am pretty sure I'm making this up as I go because I don't think anybody's asked me the question that way before. I never really thought about the word success. Um, but my parents were good role models and you know, for me, being successful, even though I didn't use that word internally, um, would be to, you know, be in a committed relationship, uh, pay the bills,

Caroline 13:08

Mm-hmm.

John DeDakis 13:08

do what you're good at,

Caroline 13:11

That's fair. Yeah. Because we all end up having these, like little seeds being planted or little imprints that are guiding us from, you know, one way to another. And it seems like you're growing up, loved in a wonderful household with parents who care, respect or try. They're interested in you and your life. They're trying to give you opportunities and, and make it possible for you to explore things traditionally and off the traditional path for your own good and betterment. As your things are ev evolving, as you're evolving.

John DeDakis 13:48

very well. I mean, they, there was never pressure to be successful. You know, there was never pressure to make a lot of money. Um, it really, I think you, you, I think put it into words really well, you know, to live up to your potential, whatever that happens to

Caroline 14:06

And to be you, the be be the you that you could be, that you wanted to be, that you saw. And then along the way, this very impactful event in society happens with Kennedy and you're growing up and you, you think, you have some sort of view of this is how the world works and this is what it means to be respected and this isn't what, what it means to be good. And now all of a sudden, this event literally rocks you and causes a slight pivot or a focus in an area.

John DeDakis 14:37

definitely.

Caroline 14:38

Mm-hmm.

John DeDakis 14:40

the word.

Caroline 14:41

Okay. Now as you decided, or were trying to decide then what to do after high school, what all went into that and how did you choose where to go?

John DeDakis 14:56

there. I instinctively knew what the skillset was to go into politics. You know, you need to be persuasive, you need to be entertaining.

Caroline 15:07

Hmm.

John DeDakis 15:07

a certain degree of showmanship. so there were, you know, and, and so there were, there were all those things that were in play. where I went to school, I mean, it was the University of Wisconsin and Madison. I mean, that was the, my sister had, you know, had gone there. It was, it was, it, it, I didn't, I don't even think I remember being in the throes of indecision about where am I gonna go to school? That was where I

Caroline 15:33

Okay, that was just, it was, and you don't remember if you applied to other places, it's just, this is where you're gonna go. This is where, where I can go, this is where I should go. This is my place.

John DeDakis 15:44

Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline 15:45

Okay. All right. So then as you get there, that now I'm not as familiar with Wisconsin Geography. Did you go live there and how? Yeah.

John DeDakis 15:55

it, Madison was about 150 miles from home. So,

Caroline 15:58

Okay.

John DeDakis 15:59

I mean, I lived in the dorms and uh, and all of that. And that was the beginning of a change because, you know, Madison and the University of Wisconsin, much bigger than La Crosse. And even though there were 60 guys on my floor, 2,500 in the dorm complex, I would be in, in, in lectures with 500 people. Um, I'd been student council president in high school, so I was a big fish in a small pond. Now I was a minnow in this, you know, and that was. Also at the time of the Vietnam War, a lot of the campus protests. And so that led to a lot of inner turmoil. You know, who am I? Why am I here? What's this all about? And and that was the, that, that was a difficult time in the, in the life of the country as well. I mean, after Kent State, it was like all college campuses literally blew up and the country was tearing itself apart. Uh, Martin Luther King Jr. Had been assassinated. Bobby Kennedy was assassinated, uh, within months of each other. And, uh, and

Caroline 17:11

And this is all while you're in college

John DeDakis 17:14

yeah.

Caroline 17:15

and we're like, was there a thought or a risk of you could be drafted at any moment? Like h help me understand how, how did that work? I mean, I just saw this short over the weekend of this, uh, young gentleman going, if you are this, this, this, you're gonna get drafted for World War iii. You're still gonna be able to be drafted for World War ii, blah, blah, blah. And I, and so now this, but this whole point,

John DeDakis 17:43

right, because you know, we've, for, for the last, oh man, you know, 50 years or so, we've had an all volunteer military

Caroline 17:51

right?

John DeDakis 17:52

uh, but back in 1969 they instituted, um, a draft um, and if you had a draft number below 150, you were going to Vietnam. number was 14 and it didn't look good. I had a student deferment, so I was, uh, safe for a while. But, um,

Caroline 18:15

So tell more about what that is. So, so your numbers basically on the list of, you're going sometime now. The deferment means you get to wait until you're done with school.

John DeDakis 18:28

Right. You know, I, I was in school, so that meant I was deferred from the draft.

Caroline 18:33

Interesting.

John DeDakis 18:35

that when I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, Playboy Magazine made, Playboy made, uh, UW Madison, the num voted at the number one party school in the country. And so it was my mission to be the number. I didn't succeed in being the number one part of year, but I got so good at it that my grade point average was 1.95.

Caroline 18:59

Ooh.

John DeDakis 19:00

close to getting kicked outta school. And

Caroline 19:02

Which would've meant signed up to go. Now

John DeDakis 19:06

But, uh, so I had joined a campus radio station covered a riot after Kent State, my parents heard me getting tear gassed on the radio, and so they encouraged me to switch schools, which was fine. I'd had it with all the campus chaos, but I lost 20 credits in the transfer. And my student deferment. And so now am slim. I'm easy pickins for the draft, my dad was on the draft board. I

Caroline 19:37

There's a draft board. Yeah.

John DeDakis 19:39

yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, you know, he was world, he was a World War II vet veteran, you know, a member of veterans for Foreign War VFW, veterans of Foreign Wars. And so I went to my dad and I said, dad, and he knew what was going on. and before I could even finish asking the question, he said, and this is a quote, and the way he said it, he said, "Hell no, I'm not gonna get you out of this. Talk to a recruiter and find out what your options are", because not everybody who's in the military, you know, has to be on the front lines. And so I talked to a recruiter, discovered that they had something called military journalism, who knew? And so I enlisted to avoid the draft because I'd have more control over what

Caroline 20:25

Over what you got to do. you voluntarily sign up knowing that this, you're, you're going to go one way or the other. At this point, you might as well I.

John DeDakis 20:37

I don't know if I, I don't think I knew I was gonna go, because, you know, we had 250,000 troops in Europe. Um, you know, there were troops in, in, in South Korea. I mean, you know,

Caroline 20:49

Okay.

John DeDakis 20:49

presence, you know, was all over the world. Not to mention, you know, in the US as well. But I did get orders to Vietnam

Caroline 20:58

Mm.

John DeDakis 20:59

the, here's another plot twist. Two weeks before I was to ship out, my orders were changed to Germany and I spent two and a half years at the headquarters of the American Forces Radio and Television Network in Frankfurt, Germany, doing interviews for a special events radio unit. And the first interview I was assigned to do was with this guy named Alfred Hitchcock. Maybe you've heard of him. You know that was a,

Caroline 21:28

Wow.

John DeDakis 21:29

That was a moment.

Caroline 21:30

Wow. Okay. This is it. All right. All right. But I wanna go back to the partying thing too. So you leave this more controlled environment where you're the big fish in a little pond, you now go, you're a minnow in a huge ocean. You're seeing people on your floor, you're trying to fit in. You're no longer wanting to be one of the, the, the, the skinny kid being made fun of. You've now learned humor is a good way. You now know from theater how to play a role to get you in the part and you're wanting to be accepted. And so you start and engage like, what, what, what was the partying entailed like? So it's just,

John DeDakis 22:10

Oh man, look, this was a tough time because I think that, um, uh, a lot of self-doubt. Um, you know, the partying basically meant trying to get laid, know, picking up chicks in the bars, and I was no good at it because I was too intimidated. I

Caroline 22:30

aw.

John DeDakis 22:31

didn't have any game, you know, I was afraid, I was afraid to approach beautiful, uh, young women. Um, you know, I had, I had been able to do that in high school, but, you know, it was different. It was just different in, in that kind of an environment. And so, you know, I had a tremendous inferiority complex, to be honest with you. Um, I actually seriously considered suicide. Um, I was that, um, confused. I didn't, you know, come close to it. I think when I actually started thinking about how I was gonna do it, that's what I, when I backed away and go, nah, no, not so much.

Caroline 23:15

Interesting.

John DeDakis 23:15

difficult time,

Caroline 23:18

So you're, you're seeking to be in good relationships with people or to have, and to have this attention. And as you're considering all your options, suicide becomes one that was contemplated.

John DeDakis 23:33

Suicide becomes an option because I was, you know, I was not, I still had the humor, but I, I didn't have the confidence. I didn't have the inner confidence,

Caroline 23:44

You didn't have the confidence and you didn't have the, like the purpose or the deeper why of what all this is about.

John DeDakis 23:50

I had a lot of confusion, um, just a lot of confusion because, you know, I was ex, you know, Lacrosse Wisconsin was, you know, uh, Nixon, Republican country. You know, it was, you know, conservative and, you know, not ultraconservative, but Madison, what you're exposed to, just a maelstrom of different opinions, different political viewpoints, different spiritual, um, approaches. And so I hadn't thought about any of that other stuff. And so it was just confusing

Caroline 24:23

So you just start questioning everything and at a very important developmental time. And then what? What got you past those thoughts? I guess maybe in some ways needing to transfer schools or other things like Yeah.

John DeDakis 24:39

yeah. You're asking excellent questions because this is, was a pivotal moment. I mean, I, I um, this was a time of tremendous confusion and turmoil in the country. And I was in my dorm and a guy knocked on my door, uh, who'd been to law school, and that's one of the reasons I was interested in talking to him. And he was with a group called Campus Crusade for Christ. It was a non-denominational camp campus Christian organization. Now, I was raised in the Episcopal Church, but by this time I was, as you say, questioning everything.

Caroline 25:20

Yeah.

John DeDakis 25:21

you know, his approach was. A lot different, you know, spirituality and religion were put in terms that were more accessible and understandable to me now. Um, and so I prayed the prayer, I don't think I understood what I had really done because there was about a two year interval from that moment to where there was any kind of spiritual coherence to my life. And that didn't happen until I was in the army. And I would say that for the longest time there was a, I would call it a spiritual stability that took place. I read the Bible, it made sense. I was around people who were, you know, attempting to live their lives in, um, a way of integrity, but at the same time had some sort of spiritual understanding. Um, I look back on it now and I think that you could argue that it was maybe spiritual. Narrow-mindedness or legalism, um, dogmatism. I'm not an evangelical anymore, and we, we can go into that if you want, but, um, you know, but for the longest time there was stability that was brought about by some degree of spiritual understanding.

Caroline 26:40

Like a, a little bit of an identity. Now, what is the prayed, the prayer is this, is this the knock, knock? Do you accept God as your Lord and Savior? Like, yeah, I, I grew up Catholic. We've just had prayers all. Long, right? Like, and, and it, and, um, it was more of, as a child, my parents decide as an infant, actually my parents made the decision, yeah, let's baptize her. And then later as a teen, I confirmed, oh yeah, I really do believe this. After learning from the inside out. But yet this evangelical thing is a little interesting 'cause it seemed

John DeDakis 27:12

It's very similar. And I mean, the, the Episcopal church is very similar to what you described. It was, you know, baptized at, uh, as an infant confirmed as a, you know, young person of 13 where you make

Caroline 27:25

right.

John DeDakis 27:25

decision. But, you know,

Caroline 27:27

And then, and then you grow more and you still get a question. And faith is a journey, right? It's, it's a constant journey. Just like life, you know?

John DeDakis 27:34

so this, you know, so the prayer was basically acknowledging that I am, I've fallen short of God's perfection. Jesus was perfect, uh, and paid the penalty that I deserved, you know, that, uh, that was meant for me. But his crucifixion in resurrection basically reconciles me with God. And so by

Caroline 27:57

Oh,

John DeDakis 27:58

I am

Caroline 28:00

inviting God into your life. Oh, but also it's kind of like a Okay. Yeah, I'm, we're not perfect. We're never gonna be perfect. Perfect is the lowest standard because it's impossible to attain. So therefore, and, and I was made on purpose, for purpose only I can do and, and the way that I was and all my imperfection, and I'm not gonna fear monger that anymore,

John DeDakis 28:23

totally. And, and I,

Caroline 28:24

you know?

John DeDakis 28:25

no one ever, you know, said, if you don't accept Jesus, you're going to hell. I mean, that would've been a non-starter.

Caroline 28:31

Yeah.

John DeDakis 28:32

what made it, what really caused me to say yes to this was that Jesus promised that you would have life and have it abundantly. And I was not having an abundant life. 'cause the guy who was talking to me said, this isn't about pie in the sky when you die. This is about having a full and abundant life here and now. You know? And that made it relevant to me.

Caroline 28:55

I gotcha. Okay. So in its midst of, in the midst of questioning, in the midst of uncertainty, someone shows up and is like, buddy, you can, you can have it all now. and here's how you get started. And you are thinking, well, I'm looking for a way to go in a direction, so why not try this out? Huh? Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So now you, you, you then, you still end up partying and, and making some decisions that then lead you to needing to go to another school that then lead you to choosing on your own, where you're going to try to have a little more discernment in that direction of what you're gonna do, and then you find yourself in Germany. But how did you, like, is it because you had done the, the radio show thing? Like how did you even get on this journalistic option for the military?

John DeDakis 29:51

I would say that, um, God, you're very, you're, I love the curiosity and the, and the, line of questioning when, again, going back to the early sixties, uh, when I was 12, 13, around that time, I met the, one of my buddies and I, we were riding our bikes in La Crosse and we happened to pass by the transmitter of WLCX AM 1490, the rock and roll, you know, leader in lacrosse. And Jim said. Hey, let's knock on the door and see if they'll let it show us around. Well, it was a shack and the only guy there was Pete Lakin, the guy who was the, you know, the, the disc jockey, you know, who played, you know, the, the hits. And so he showed us

Caroline 30:36

I.

John DeDakis 30:36

and it was like, you know, I crossed the threshold into this magical place. And, you know, I would go and visit Pete on weekends and just shadow him, watch him do what he did. So I was already receptive

Caroline 30:50

old is this? How, yeah, how old?

John DeDakis 30:52

14, 15 in those years.

Caroline 30:56

Interesting. So right around this Kennedy timeframe and kind of during the theater timeframe, yet before the community or maybe right along in the interesting. And, and this guy in the midst of his regular job of what he was supposed to be doing, decides it's fun and fine to entertain a couple teenagers.

John DeDakis 31:16

Yeah, yeah. You know, he showed us around and then, you know, I mean, Jim went into, he went into, he became an ophthalmologist and, uh, you know, but I was just riv I was fascinated by broadcasting. And so when I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, I volunteered at the campus radio station, so I was a disc jockey there, but also a, a, a, an assistant news director. And so I was covering the riots, but I was also spinning records. And, uh, and so journalism in the army was basically the same thing. Only, you know, at a major network in Frankfurt, Germany, broadcasting to central Europe

Caroline 31:58

So you're writing the story and telling the story both and, or you wrote the stories and other people told the stories.

John DeDakis 32:07

Um, well, as a, as a reporter, you're going out and getting the information

Caroline 32:12

Yeah.

John DeDakis 32:14

Doing that

Caroline 32:14

Yeah. So interesting, interesting. And, and how do you decide, this is just a general question. How do you decide what's enough for a story? Every story is always continuing even after the story could be finished. The effect of others of the story is, is, but like where is that discernment of like, this is enough of a lens for a story. Is it a time crunch that makes you choose

John DeDakis 32:40

Part of it, part of it is time. You

Caroline 32:42

Yeah.

John DeDakis 32:42

got a, you've got a deadline and you've only got so much real estate to tell the story. In broadcasting, you only have so much time. And so, you know, the basic questions are who, where, what, when, why, and how.

Caroline 32:55

Yeah.

John DeDakis 32:55

if you've got those answers, then you know that's your story. But, um, look, truth, there's, there's capital T, truth, you know, everything in reality. And then there's the small t tiles of the mosaic. And so that's what an an individual news story is. It's just one little tile in the bigger

Caroline 33:17

In the mosaic. Interesting. Okay. So now how do you go from. Germany to, and then what, and if you start off with your first interview there being Alfred Hitchcock, like where does it go from there? Like

John DeDakis 33:31

you know, there were a lot of rock and roll bands. I interviewed the Doobie Brothers and Anne Murray and uh, you know, so I was doing a lot of rock and roll band interviews. but, you know, ended up getting out of the army, going back to the University of Wisconsin. 'cause I hadn't really finished my degree, got my degree in broadcast journalism. And so then I started working at a radio station. And then my first TV job was in Madison at the NBC affiliate. And so that then kinda locked in that journalism was going to be the career, which it was for the next 45 years.

Caroline 34:10

how did you decide along the way which aspect of journalism you wanted to do? Because the people we see on the air as regular consumers, they're not the only people. And, and like intuitively we know, okay, well they're talking about cameramen or this or that, but like in a small network, how many people are involved in that show and production and telling the story. And then how did you decide where to go? Like

John DeDakis 34:38

Sure. Okay. Good question. Um, it's, especially in, in television, there is a lot going on behind the scenes. It always amazed me that anything at all got on the air because there were so many hoops you had to jump through. Um, but because of my journal, my, uh, uh, theater background and you know that to a certain extent, there's that dramatist in me, you know, being a reporter, being on the air was a good fit. and, and I, and I, and I seem to do pretty well at it. Um, so that's, I think. How I figured that out. But you know, as you go, you know, different organizations are, are, are configured differently and uh, and, and part of what you do is determined by what you're assigned to do. uh, and so, you know, over the course of many years I did different things in journalism.

Caroline 35:38

Yeah, let's talk, let's get into a little bit more about and then what happened, and then in, in any company, there's internal dynamics of who and what and how gets to have whatever position, how how'd that unfold?

John DeDakis 35:51

Okay, well, when I was at Channel 15 in Madison, the NBC affiliate, usually in, in local news, you stay two years in a place and then you go to the next bigger market in, at Channel 15. It was a good place to be. It was a, it was a really solid news organization. I stayed there eight years and I was probably one of the, you know, there were people who stayed there much longer than, than I did. Um, but there, and I was doing more documentary type stuff, in depth reporting, but. There was not really the appetite there for that. And so I needed more

Caroline 36:29

Oh,

John DeDakis 36:30

in my reporting. And someone when that I was working with suggested, well, you ought to go to the Christian Broadcasting Network. And I had no idea what that, I, I take that back. One of the guys I was in the army with had been an announcer at CBN. And so, um, I, Pat Robertson was the, uh, the head of the network. He founded it. Um, it was the 700 club

Caroline 36:53

yep.

John DeDakis 36:54

they had a, but they had a news organization that was just getting organized, just getting s getting, getting in place. So I applied there, I was impressed with the place. And, um, and, and of course I didn't wanna get hired, you know, because of my spirituality. So I took all the God words outta my resume and of course got rejected, bam. Immediately

Caroline 37:17

Oh,

John DeDakis 37:18

I didn't measure up to what

Caroline 37:20

you weren't aligning to what they wanted it, what they, yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

John DeDakis 37:24

got my rejection, I called my friend Mike Little at, you know, he, you know, he was now back at the network, not in the Army anymore. And it turns out Mike wasn't just an announcer, he was the executive vice president in charge of the news division. So as soon as he knew that I got rejected, he says, well, it sounds like personnel's not using very good judgment. 'cause he knew my work.

Caroline 37:47

Right.

John DeDakis 37:48

long story short, I got hired and, um, within two years they made me White House correspondent. but this was right at the time that my boss, Pat Robertson was running for president. So that's a potential conflict of interest. You know, you're run, you're trying to cover the guy who pays the, your, your, your check, you know, your paycheck.

Caroline 38:10

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. And where was the location of this? The CBN.

John DeDakis 38:52

uh, CBN is headquartered in Virginia Beach, Virginia. And, uh, and so I was a general assignment reporter there for two years, and then they reassigned me to cover the White House in DC

Caroline 39:05

So you were Wisconsin. Germany, Wisconsin, Virginia.

John DeDakis 39:09

Yeah.

Caroline 39:11

Where, and, and, and this is now career path wise, what was happening on the personal life wise and the quest for a female person who would give you attention. What's, Yeah, what's happening there? Let's catch us up on the other side too.

John DeDakis 39:28

Yeah. Oh, that, uh, well, I was much more, I was by, when I became, you know, an evangelical Christian, I became much more responsible uh, and moral, I guess you could say. I was much, I had made a lot of mistakes as a hedonistic, you know, pleasure seeking kid, and I, I caused a lot of pain. It to people in my, you know, to the women in my life. And so I was learning a new way of relating to people. And so I met my wife, I joined the church choir just to get involved. This is back in

Caroline 40:06

Oh, wow. Yep.

John DeDakis 40:07

The church choir, not because I'm any kind of great shakes musically, but because that I thought was a good way to get involved. And a year after I joined the choir, this, uh, this young woman named, uh, Cindy Brown, who had been a choir director at a Lutheran church in near Madison, uh, became our new choir director. And, uh, you know, she was about my age, uh, also single, not bad looking. We clicked blah, blah, blah. And so by the time I'm, uh, uh, so we got, we got married within nine months after we met. I proposed after six months, still together 48 years later.

Caroline 40:50

Oh, this is amazing. Okay, so and then is this did, so did you meet her when you went back after being in Germany? Or did you meet her before you went to Germany?

John DeDakis 40:58

I, I met her in 77, so I was already a reporter at Channel 15. I was, you know, my life was stabilizing by this time, and,

Caroline 41:08

How old are you at Roughly?

John DeDakis 41:09

I was 27 then.

Caroline 41:11

Okay.

John DeDakis 41:11

She was four, four months younger than me or I, and, um, you know, and so I, and I was really, I, at this point, I was actually looking for a wife. I was, it was no fun playing the field anymore. I needed something long term.

Caroline 41:29

And so then she moves with you

John DeDakis 41:32

Yeah, I

Caroline 41:32

as as you get this opportunity. And then what did she do along the way as you kept getting other opportunities? still stay as choir director?

John DeDakis 41:41

she, she, uh, she, I met her when she was working on her doctorate in choral conducting choir

Caroline 41:47

Interesting. Yeah.

John DeDakis 41:49

Um, but she, and she wanted to teach at the college level, and so she got her master's, but then she discovered she had to get her doctorate as well. And she wasn't as enamored with that idea. So when we got married, um, she decided to, uh, teach public school. She had taught public school music, and so she went back.

Caroline 42:08

Interesting.

John DeDakis 42:09

to teaching public school, uh, probably two years after we got married. Uh, the first kid came along and so, um, I, she decided to stay at home even though she made more money than I did, as she made more money as a teacher, as than I did as a reporter, which is

Caroline 42:29

What's wrong with the world? Right? is that, is that still the case now? Like is that still the case now? Journalists paid. I mean, because teachers, teachers are not paid related to the impact and the lives that they're doing and, and I a little bit shocked to hear that journalists were paid less. And yet that's the way, even in that time, like that's the way anyone was getting their info. There wasn't this swipe left. Right. Search, search, search. You had to rely and how would the people Yeah, tell me.

John DeDakis 43:03

on where you're working. I mean, journalists make a lot of money depending on what they do. If you're an anchor, you know, you're making, you know, you're top dog,

Caroline 43:12

Yeah.

John DeDakis 43:12

the most money. You know, I wasn't an anchor. I was a reporter. And, uh, um, so, you know, the, the, there's a vast pay range within journalism. Um, but, you know, we made the decision and she, and, and it wasn't like, you know, Cindy, you're gonna stay home with the kids. I'm not that kind of guy. Uh, but she felt that these are irretrievable years. And so she felt that it was important for her to be home with Emily as opposed to,

Caroline 43:41

Yep.

John DeDakis 43:42

the mom to 25 other kids,

Caroline 43:46

And then how many children did you guys end up having?

John DeDakis 43:48

three altogether.

Caroline 43:50

Three. Wow. Okay. So Emily's born, you're a reporter, you're in Virginia. That, then there's the whole, like you could be a White House correspondent, but now you can't because your boss has gotta run for president. Now that's a conf.

John DeDakis 44:04

I was definitely a White House correspondent.

Caroline 44:06

so tell me, yes. How did this go? How did this pivot then, with all these things.

John DeDakis 44:12

it, uh, it was definitely, um, um, difficult because this is the year, this is before Fox News, but CBN their news division felt that, you know, the, the news media was hopelessly liberal. And so it was our job to counter that by being conservative.

Caroline 44:33

Hmm.

John DeDakis 44:33

was not the way I was trained as a

Caroline 44:35

Yeah, and I'm like, Hmm, hmm. That kind of seems a little bit like,

John DeDakis 44:39

my, my argument was two wrongs, don't make a right, dude. So, um, I was trying to play it straight, uh, but I was in an organization where the pressure to be conservative was, uh, intense. Uh, you know, but not, it was not relentless, but it was an uphill battle. And, um, you know, and I mean, I did an interview with Pat before he actually decided to run for president. And to be fair, I mean, it was a tough interview, but he didn't, you know, try to shut it down. He didn't try to, you know, uh, um, take control over that. He actually called us his runaway news division. Um, but it was, it was difficult. It was difficult to, because the perception was, you know, that we were carrying political water for our boss and, you

Caroline 45:31

interesting. What. And, and, and aside from just being technically difficult, how did that like, feel or manifest or how, how did you experience that? Knowing it's difficult? Like did it, like, was there an internal, there was a time where it's like how I was aligned and how the company, the larger organization that was aligned, I hadn't discerned enough of who I was, what I actually believe, what I actually value. And yet in the same moment my body was experiencing all sorts of stress and things that now looking back, it's like, aha, it was that and it felt like this and it was like that. But, and then I was angry, you know, but like, what was it for you? Yeah.

John DeDakis 46:13

I mean, I was angry a lot because I felt that, you know, we needed to play it straight. And so on the one hand I was concerned about, you know, the perception that I wasn't, um, um, a fair minded journalist. Uh, and on the other I was, uh, angry that I was being pushed in a direction that would cause me to try to make my copy persuasive as opposed to informative. And

Caroline 46:39

Ah,

John DeDakis 46:40

you know, long story short, um, I ended up leaving on my own and, and went to CNN amazingly, CNN didn't consider me to be damaged goods. They hired me in, in Atlanta to be a writer. And, uh, I was at CNN for 25 years. And that was, you know, that's the whole, that at the time was the Holy of Holies of journalism, you know, 24 hour news while I was there. Basically, CNN got on the map

Caroline 47:10

yeah.

John DeDakis 47:11

place for, you know, responsible journalism.

Caroline 47:15

And I, and I appreciated CNNI think when I was in college and had cable. Um, I, I really appreciated that CNN was there and I really appreciated Headline News because I thought, well, here we go every half hour, what time I'm getting up or whatever, I'm gonna flip this on and I'm gonna know in 30 minutes if the world is still the world, and then I'm gonna go about my, my,

John DeDakis 47:40

you. Yeah,

Caroline 47:41

day and see. And plus if I, if I am not incorrect, Robin Meade I remember hearing her on the radio in Ohio while growing up, and then it was just like, wait, what? I've heard this woman speak before now. She's like, how interesting is that? So yeah, it was a, that was a, a nice, a nice day, but, but you weren't on

John DeDakis 48:05

rock. She's rock solid.

Caroline 48:07

Yeah. And, so what parts of CNN did you impact in your career there? Like, I, I know it was, I know there was a big, uh, a, a, a big entity there, but there's many components of that. So, as you first started, where are your stories being told? Are they only told on the main things or are they told on headline news? Like what, how?

John DeDakis 48:29

no head. The headlines was, was a different, basically a different company within a

Caroline 48:34

Yeah.

John DeDakis 48:34

So I was with, you know, CNN head, head, uh, CNN, uh, headquarters

Caroline 48:39

Yep.

John DeDakis 48:40

And

Caroline 48:40

I.

John DeDakis 48:41

at least in the initial years, writing for the main newscasts. And, you know, at least before the Gulf War, it was an assembly line. I mean, I worked on a lot of different shows, uh, but then after the Gulf War. They went to a show based model where, you know, each show two hour time block had its own editors, writers, producers, anchors, all that kind of stuff. And so, um, I worked on the early morning newscasts. Um, uh, Carol Costello was the anchor that I, you know, was, I was her editor. And, uh, you know, we worked together for a long time. And then when I, and then I went to DC and the last seven years, I was one of Wolf Blitzer's editors on The Situation Room. So, you know, that and the impact, I mean, I was, I was sort of a mentor, I suppose. I was older than, you know, a lot of the, you know, the people in the newsroom in DC I taught people how to write broadcast copy. Um, and so, you know, there was a teaching component that was there as well. Um, but you know, it's a big, it's a big place. So I'm a cog in this big machine.

Caroline 49:53

And also you kind of in this. It, it ended up being, you're reporting the story, you're, you're writing the story and reporting the story to now you're writing that story that somebody else is reporting. Did you consciously choose that? Because now you're going from being this on the stage, playing the part on the camera, telling the story to then now more behind the scenes, still very important, but not having the limelight, like how was That it conscious? Yeah. Was it conscious or that's just where you fit? I.

John DeDakis 50:28

I mean, you know, they hired me as a writer because that was the job that was opened. I had applied to be a correspondent, and, uh, Ed Turner, not any relation to Ted Turner, uh, basically said, well, you know, we don't have any openings for correspondence, but writing is a noble, you know, calling, so consider that. And so I got hired as a writer, but CNN did a lot of hiring from within. And so I applied to a lot of, you know, um, correspondent positions. They actually made me an anchor for, you know, sort of weekend cut-ins, overnight cut-ins, um, just to kinda see if I would be able to handle it. Uh, but I was doing overnight, so I was dead tired most of the time. So, you know, I didn't really have the energy to be, you know, an

Caroline 51:16

Yeah.

John DeDakis 51:16

anchor per se. And it just seemed as though every. rep on air opportunity that came along, somebody else got it. And that

Caroline 51:26

Uhhuh,

John DeDakis 51:27

And so I actually, you know, I made a decision and Cindy and I talked about this, where, you know, the, on the air opportunities weren't there, I was already, you know, the family. We had a mortgage, we had

Caroline 51:40

right?

John DeDakis 51:41

so, um, I, and I was getting older, so it was not as easy to just jump ship and go someplace else and

Caroline 51:49

I see.

John DeDakis 51:50

pay cut. And so I made a con, Cindy and I together made a conscious decision I'd bloom where I was planted and do the best I could as an editor. Um, because I was no longer a writer, they made me an editor. And so that was much more, that was more responsibility. It was a middle management kind of position.

Caroline 52:10

Did it have? Did it have set hours? Were they predictable? Are editors working predictable hours, which actually feed into developing the family?

John DeDakis 52:21

there was, there was, and that's a really important consideration. Yes. Um, you know, it was a regular straight shift. It was overnights, which sucked. But on the other hand, I was working, you know, when I left work, that was when five extra layers of management came in. so when we were on the overnight shift, it was, you know, it was a bare bones operation, but we thrived because we all knew what we were doing. We didn't need Mr. Big and Mrs. Big and all those others to tell us what to do. We did it. Uh, and so, uh, it, it, it, there was stability because, you know, we had vacation time. We, you know, we, you know, I had a life outside of the, outside of the job. It's when I first started writing fiction. And so, um, yeah, there was, it was possible. To, to live in that environment and not get shot out of a cannon. Whenever big news broke and they'd send me to hither and yon, it was, it was stable

Caroline 53:22

What were the hours then? Was it overnight? All the time.

John DeDakis 53:25

pretty much. I mean, uh, uh, within a year after I got there, they made me an editor. I mean, the guy I worked with said, you know, I was working nights and weekends, and he, and he said, have you ever thought about being an editor? And he said, no. He said, you'd be a great editor. What he meant was, I want off nights and weekends and you'd be a great warm body to replace me. And so he got the nine to five shift, and I did overnights for I'd say probably 17 years.

Caroline 53:52

Wow. So what is that like seven to seven? 10 to seven? Like what? What is that like?

John DeDakis 53:57

it means sleep deprivation. Um, I would, I would go into work depending on, on, you know, the, the, the, the hours were, were flexible depending on,

Caroline 54:10

Okay.

John DeDakis 54:11

But, um, often it was, I'd go in at like midnight or one in

Caroline 54:16

Wow.

John DeDakis 54:16

and get off at like eight in the morning, and I'd go home and I'd sleep for as long as I could. Cindy was at work, the kids were in school and I discovered that I could only sleep for eight hours and then I was up. But normal people go to bed and then get up and go to work. So I'd go to bed at nine at night and I'd get about an hour and a half sleep. I'd set the alarm and then put it across the room. So I had to get up to turn it off, and then, and then

Caroline 54:45

I still do that.

John DeDakis 54:46

Yeah, and I, and I, one of my friends is a neurologist and specializing in sleep deprivation. And I remember asking him, I said, don't you have to have, you know, a full eight hours of sleep? And he said, no, you have to have REM sleep, dream sleep. And I said, well, I get that. And I said, what do you, what ha, what does it mean if I can sleep for 25 minutes and wake up refreshed? And he said, it means you're a good napper. And so I never worried about sleep after that. You know, my body pretty much told me when it was time to sleep, and it's still the case. I mean, I've been retired since 2013, but I still get up at like, you know, two, three in the morning. I got up

Caroline 55:25

Oh, wow.

John DeDakis 55:27

and I've only had two cups of coffee. That'll probably be it. And um, and you know, I'll take cat naps and uh, but I get a lot done. Sleep is overrated.

Caroline 55:37

Interesting, interesting. Okay. And so in this schedule, yeah. 'cause it's, it's like there's always this, these things that like, I'm thinking like, wait, what editors are working overnight? All that makes kind of makes sense because when you, like when you refresh in the morning, it's like, okay, all right. It that makes, okay. Alright. And now how does this play into your ability to, you have, you end up having three children. What are their difference in ages? Does that all, like Emily was up in Virginia then did the others come in Atlanta and, and how like Yeah.

John DeDakis 56:10

Emily, Emily actually was born in Wisconsin. And then

Caroline 56:13

Oh, born and was then went to, yep. Okay.

John DeDakis 56:15

we moved to, to uh, Virginia Beach. Uh, then James came along and he's two and a half years younger than Emily. And then we moved to Atlanta and, uh, probably a year after I started in Atlanta. Steven was born and he's five years younger than James and, uh, eight years younger than Emily.

Caroline 56:35

Okay. And so while they're in school, you are sleeping, they come back from school and then are you like the fun dad until you go to bed or like what happens?

John DeDakis 56:48

don't know if I was fun, but, uh, um, I was the dad and, uh, yeah, I mean, I, and I, I, I felt that it was important when I, when I went into journalism and, and met Cindy, you know, I, I had wanted to cover the White House for CBS and when I got married, I just knew that that was not a realistic goal because, you know, the divorce rate in journalism is huge. And, uh,

Caroline 57:18

didn't know that. I didn't know. Well, aside from, you know, somebody that was a journalist and now is a, a secretary of

John DeDakis 57:25

yeah.

Caroline 57:26

Um, but anyway, than that, I didn't really know.

John DeDakis 57:29

I, I decided, I made a conscious decision that I was gonna do my best not to take the job home.

Caroline 57:36

Oh.

John DeDakis 57:36

was very fortunate that I was there for the kids. I was, I was, you know, Cindy's coach for each birth and, uh, you know, and so I was not an absentee dad, and she and I were a good team.

Caroline 57:49

Mm mm Okay. And did they know, did they know what you did? Like, did you go to the, you know, school days and tell about what you did at work? Yep.

John DeDakis 58:00

interesting thing is they didn't know how I voted. You know, they, you know, I, CNN you were not allowed to contribute to political campaigns. You couldn't have bumper stickers or walls or yard signs or anything like that, because you didn't have, you didn't wanna convey the co you know, the perception, you know, that your copy is, you know, that you're in trying to influence an election. Uh, and so they didn't know how I voted.

Caroline 58:27

I think that's a, a good thing though, right? I, you're, you're developing and, and I think that was part of the draw of what, um, what I really enjoyed about CNN was the telling of the facts of the story. And you get to make your own decision about where to go from there, from there. in those,

John DeDakis 58:45

a lot. And CNN's changed too,

Caroline 58:47

it is all changing. The world is changing, everything's changing, and anybody is now a reporter, right? how credible or not credible, I.

John DeDakis 58:56

a phone and you hit send or post, you are a publisher, no editor on your shoulder going, where'd you get that? How do you know that's true? So, you know, social media, the internet is just a wash with bs.

Caroline 59:12

And it's very, I think, very difficult for the generation growing up now to try to understand who to trust or what is a source and what does that, and how does that matter. I mean, I'm seeing it in my own, um, family with the kinds of things that, that, you know, you can eat this, you can't eat that. We can do this.

John DeDakis 59:31

I'll make a, I'll make a suggestion because it is still possible to get factual, reliable news and, and, and I would suggest go to the Associated Press or Reuters. are wire services that have been around for a long time. In the case of AP at least 150 years, and it's fact based. And

Caroline 59:54

I like that. Yep.

John DeDakis 59:55

there's editorial oversight. The, the Reuters is based in the UK. So you've got a more international perspective there. And, um, you know, there are plenty of other responsible news organizations, but those are two

Caroline 1:00:10

Yep.

John DeDakis 1:00:11

they play it straight. You don't have to watch Fox or CNN or MS NOW, or, you know, any of these to get the facts.

Caroline 1:00:20

And sometimes.

John DeDakis 1:00:21

know, go to CSPAN and watch, you know, watch a hearing if you've got the time or if you can, you know, see the, the pit taped replay.

Caroline 1:00:28

I do like watching, um, hearings every now and then. I think those are, it's nice to see and, and uh, I think during COVID to watch some of the hearings and then, and then to see on the news the different, I'm like, wow, I watched that and that didn't happen and that did. Interesting. Well, that's it, but um, thank you for this, uh, reminder. Now

John DeDakis 1:00:49

Now

Caroline 1:00:50

AP Okay. In my ignorance, I thought it was, this is, and, and please correct me, this is a big news organization that goes out and tells stories and they put it out there and little news organizations can run that story too. True. Okay. So some get picked up 'cause you would see like in the newspaper AP and I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

John DeDakis 1:01:12

I mean, you know, that's, that AP uh, and to a lesser extent, UPI are staples of any local news organization, even inter even, you know, international news organizations because, you know, AP is everywhere. And, uh, and so news organizations, you know, subscribe to AP because that supplements their own reporting.

Caroline 1:01:37

Who funds the AP

John DeDakis 1:01:40

Um, usually news organizations subscribe to it,

Caroline 1:01:44

to have a part.

John DeDakis 1:01:45

yeah. So you don't, you

Caroline 1:01:46

Okay.

John DeDakis 1:01:47

can, you can subscribe without having to pay for it.

Caroline 1:01:51

Oh, that's interesting. No, no, I'm just saying like, because you know, larger news entities, CNN, Fox, whatever, right? They have, uh, bought into their network, their agenda. Deviating away sometimes from true journalism, and they're paying to have this thing so that AP has to be funded from somewhere. It's just funded from individual subscribers or new subscribers, and that's enough to keep it unbiased.

John DeDakis 1:02:18

Yeah, I think so. I mean,

Caroline 1:02:19

Okay.

John DeDakis 1:02:20

asking, you're asking a question that's beyond my scope of understanding. But

Caroline 1:02:24

Mine too.

John DeDakis 1:02:25

have subscribers and, and you know, you got a lot of news organizations that subscribe.

Caroline 1:02:31

yeah, yeah. Beyond my understanding too, but I, I, you know, it's just like, oh, somebody, somebody somewhere is paying to allow the story to come out and that person paying may or may not have an agenda. It's just an interesting thing I

John DeDakis 1:02:44

and I would, I, they probably have advertising on there as well.

Caroline 1:02:48

Oh, probably. Yeah, probably. Okay. All right. So this is cool. You are now, so you're in Atlanta. You're working overnights, you're contributing to journalism and true journalism of here's the facts, let other people make their decisions, being on pretty big shows. But then what happened in 2013 that you decide, nah. Did you decide, was it by, was it by choice or by force or by influence?

John DeDakis 1:03:15

Wow. Well, you're going deep here. Um, look, by the time you get to 2013, I'm getting old a lot has happened. probably the most fundamental earth shaking thing was my son's death. Steven died of a heroin overdose in 2011, and that rocked my world. And I went through grief counseling for two and a half years. CNN was very supportive. Um, but I went back to work and journalism wasn't fun anymore. And then Sandy Hook comes along. Sandy Hook is where a, a guy goes into, uh, the elementary school and slaughters 20 elementary school kids.

Caroline 1:04:04

Yep. My kid was a kindergartner. oldest was a kindergartner that. That well, and, but, and it was nowhere near me, and yet it just started. And then my child, then they started having the gun drills, and then my kid came home and told me we had a gun drill. Don't worry. I sat in the back. So if a bullet comes, it'll hit them before it gets to me. And just to think this is what this 5-year-old is thinking and deciding

John DeDakis 1:04:38

Well,

Caroline 1:04:38

what Oh,

John DeDakis 1:04:40

at CNN was, you know, uh, watching parents cry over their dead kids. And so that was when it, what was not fun anymore. And

Caroline 1:04:49

yeah.

John DeDakis 1:04:50

it wasn't long after that that um, you know, I decided it was time to move on and I'd already written, I think, four novels and, um.

Caroline 1:05:03

Written and published them.

John DeDakis 1:05:04

Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's, my

Caroline 1:05:06

Okay.

John DeDakis 1:05:06

came out 20 years ago,

Caroline 1:05:08

Okay.

John DeDakis 1:05:09

so it's a series, and my protagonist is a young woman in her twenties, and she begins finding the body of the aunt who raised her from infancy. So grief and loss are part of her, her character as the series unfolds. So I'm processing grief, you know, my, in fact, my,

Caroline 1:05:28

Of all the stories, how did you choose this as your novel? How did you choose this as the focus of your, like you of, you could have told you've, by this point you've been inherent and seen and witnessed and told many, many, many, many, many, many stories. How did grief become the focus?

John DeDakis 1:05:46

Because my sister took her life in 1980

Caroline 1:05:50

Oh.

John DeDakis 1:05:51

uh, Cindy and I had only been married a couple of years. I was still a reporter in Madison and it wasn't probably when I first started writing fiction, it wasn't for another 15 years, but that was already part of my,

Caroline 1:06:05

Story

John DeDakis 1:06:06

Yeah. My story. And so when I started to write, um, I discovered just because that's the way my creative mind worked is you mine the pain, go for that. And so I was processing my own grief through my protagonist.

Caroline 1:06:23

of writing the story. Okay, so your sister, who you put on a pedestal, who you very much looked up to this rocks your world and, and writing becomes an outlet different, not directly related, but an outlet for that grief and processing. And then I can't even imagine with your son and, and yeah, you're, you're, so now there's just certain points of life that you can't go back to who you were. It.

John DeDakis 1:06:52

Right? Right. It, it changes you. Grief changes you

Caroline 1:06:57

And in the midst of this, how do you choose to take one step forward anyway? I mean, as a teen, you already start questioning Who am I? What am I? Why am I here? What is the point? Two people you love the most, but like what kept you taking a step on this side?

John DeDakis 1:07:19

Again, good question that I don't think anybody's asked quite that way. I think that I'm enough of a realist because as a journalist, you cover, you see people on their worst day of their life. You know, my dad fought in World War II he helped liberate one of the concentration camps. So, you know, I have no illusions about what life can deal you. You know, there are no guarantees that you're gonna be immune from pain and loss and death and, uh, you know, the Kennedy assassination, uh, MLK, I mean, you know, that's, that's part of day-to-day journalism. And

Caroline 1:07:57

Jesus, like, everybody dies. Why are we doing this? Like, like,

John DeDakis 1:08:02

Life's not fair, you know?

Caroline 1:08:04

Yeah.

John DeDakis 1:08:05

I guess it, it's, it's, you just, it, that's the. I guess the answer to your question, I don't think it's particularly profound, is that we all have the same amount of time we can, we can only live it one moment at a time. And so one moment leads to the next and leads to the next. And you know, they, they go by one second at a time. So, um, you know, the pace sets itself. Uh, and so you learn just to manage it one step at a time, you can only control that moment. know, we spend all our time regretting the past or fearing the future, but we can only really control the moment.

Caroline 1:08:54

Right. Okay. And so you leave and then what?

John DeDakis 1:09:02

Leave what?

Caroline 1:09:03

Well, you left after 20, so you leave CNN, you leave CNN you. You've now have, and you had already started, uh, some would say a side hustle, you know, of, of writing. Um.

John DeDakis 1:09:18

Um, that, yeah, you're absolutely right because by this time, uh, when I, when I published my first novel, um, traditionally published, I'd go to a writer's conference and someones would say, 'cause now I've got credibility. And these are a lot of people who are trying to get published. And so there was one guy who comes up to me and says, here's my 150,000 word tome. Give it a quick read and tell me what you think. Well with me, there's no such thing as a quick read and it needs work, isn't gonna be that very helpful. So I monetized it. And so I started to accept, um, jobs, manuscript editing. I would give people, I, you know, they'd pay me to edit their stuff. Uh, I would lead writing con, lead writing workshops at writer centers, writing conferences. I started to coach people one-on-one. So by the time I left CNN I was a novelist. I was a writing coach, I was a manuscript editor.

Caroline 1:10:14

Yeah.

John DeDakis 1:10:15

teacher. So I had all of these

Caroline 1:10:17

Already. Mm. And so it's more choosing where to focus your time versus leaving something else.

John DeDakis 1:10:26

absolutely. It was, it was, I was free, man. I was finally free to do, you know, to not be at the mercy of the news cycle, but to really be able to do what I was good at and be able to be entrepreneurial about it to, to basically set my own hours, set my, the, do the things I am good at and love.

Caroline 1:10:49

And help with the stories that you choose, right? So whether you're writing your own or whether you're choosing to work and helping somebody else's bring that to fruition, you are completely in control of your own time schedule, et cetera.

John DeDakis 1:11:03

possible. You know? I mean, Cindy still wants me take out the trash dammit, you know,

Caroline 1:11:10

Okay. And so

John DeDakis 1:11:12

so.

Caroline 1:11:14

I guess, yeah. Yeah. So how is this? Evolved and beco like this is so, I always find it so fascinating, but yet anything that's, that's given to you as a challenge and opportunity and adverse experience, you are still picking up the p, the, the little tiles of the mosaic and making it into a beautiful story.

John DeDakis 1:11:36

trying to, yeah.

Caroline 1:11:38

This is beautiful. This is beautiful. Okay, so now how do you choose to spend your time? Not in spend, but how do you choose to invest your time? What, what captures your attention these days?

John DeDakis 1:11:51

Well, the, the great thing is that Cindy and I, um, are both basically retired, so we hang out. I get

Caroline 1:11:59

Oh, that's cool.

John DeDakis 1:11:59

I think, you know, I get up around three in the

Caroline 1:12:01

Yeah.

John DeDakis 1:12:02

sleeps, you know, later. And, um, and so I come down here and work. I journal, I journal every day for probably at least a half an hour. So that's my writing. And then, uh, you know, I'm fielding emails, I'm editing, I'm writing, uh, and then around eight she's ready for coffee. And then we go up and hang out and read and do the New York Times puzzles and talk and, you know, all that kinda stuff. And then I'm back down here in the afternoon and um, you know, around seven o'clock, you know, we have dinner together and then watch, you know, pride the pit or something on TV and um, yeah. And then cycle be re repeats itself.

Caroline 1:12:47

So now, and from this vantage point, like how do you define authentic success for you?

John DeDakis 1:12:53

Oh, I mean, not being famous, it's not making a lot of money. Those, those two things, I think can be a trap. So for me, success is doing what you're good at and what you love,

Caroline 1:13:06

Hmm.

John DeDakis 1:13:06

period.

Caroline 1:13:08

Mm mm And, and with who you love seems as well. That's the other

John DeDakis 1:13:13

In fact, the most recent novel, Enemies Domestic, we wrote it together. I mean, I was the writer, but we came up with the idea together. I did the writing, and then she was my alpha reader. Every,

Caroline 1:13:25

Oh, nice.

John DeDakis 1:13:26

I wrote, I would take it up, she'd give me notes, we'd talk about it, and then, you know, that gave us enough light for the next step and so on.

Caroline 1:13:35

Oh, what a beautiful, uh, just evolution of partnership and, and giving and growing together. That's, that's quite beautiful. Okay. So how I think yeah, you're both lucky, right? You know, you chose each other and love is a feeling and a choice. Um,

John DeDakis 1:13:55

of a choice than a feeling. Um, the, the there come, anybody who's been married for any length of time will tell you. There comes a point where the bloom is off the rose, and that's when you have to make love a choice.

Caroline 1:14:08

Yes,

John DeDakis 1:14:09

and yet what I've discovered over 48 years is the more you make that choice, the warm fuzzies can return.

Caroline 1:14:18

yes, yes, yes, yes. This is so good. Okay. How do people find you now? How do people work with you? Because you mentioned a variety of, of of things that capture your attention and how you help people. I.

John DeDakis 1:14:31

Best way to do that is through my website, Everything kind of gets funneled through there. It's my name.com, johndedakis.com, J-O-H-N-D E-D- A-K-I-S .com. johndedakis.com. You, you can get through to me, uh, by, uh, send a message. Um, it's got my books, my speaking, my teaching, you know, the different, you know, events that I'm gonna be involved in. A lot of them are on online. Um, do a lot of speaking now, uh, teaching. So it's a one stop shopping for however you wanna interface with me.

Caroline 1:15:12

Awesome. Thank you just so very much, John, for telling more of your story, for being on the podcast and, and sharing all these kind of twist turns, pivots and, and it's just a beautiful, uh, creation that you've brought into the world for sharing so many other people's stories as well as your novels and your transformation into challenging times to helping others. So I genuinely appreciate it.

John DeDakis 1:15:34

Well, you're welcome Caroline, and thank you for such, you know, probing, logical, important questions.

Caroline 1:15:43

Thank you.

1:15:43

John, thank you for your honesty, your humor, and for showing us what it looks like to keep choosing yourself as you navigate Your Next Success. Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.