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What changes when you choose a career with real world exposure and honest insight before you invest years of your life into a guess? Career readiness is broken in a way that leaves smart, capable people drifting. People graduate start jobs and realize they never had a clear picture of what the work actually feels like day to day. Keep listening and you'll hear why exposure creates clarity faster, how conversations and shadowing reduce expensive trial and error, and how networking becomes simple when you understand what it truly is. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out. And the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves, so you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success. Today's guest is Mike Wysocki, author of the Award-Winning and Amazon bestselling book, Careers by the People built from candid insight from 101 experienced professionals. After more than 30 years in tech sales, Mike turned his expertise into a career readiness mission. He has spoken to thousands of high school and college students from Massachusetts to Maui and has created more than 120 career readiness videos on YouTube. His second book is expected in 2026. His work, helps people choose with clarity and move forward with confidence. Career decisions shape more than a paycheck. They shape your energy, your health, your relationships, and your sense of purpose. Mike's story is honest and practical. He built stability. He also discovered that meaning requires a different approach. So he built a solution. He gathered real input from real professionals, turned it into a resource students can use, and stepped into schools to give people a clearer starting point. In this conversation, you'll hear how environment influences what you believe is possible, why exposure through shadowing and conversations accelerates clarity, why networking becomes easier when you see it as real relationship building with purpose, how to choose a direction without forcing lifelong decisions too early. Let's get into it.

Caroline 2:57

Welcome, Mike to Your Next Success. I'm so excited to be talking to you today. We talked a few weeks ago, we hit it off, and I just really loved your energy, the awesomeness that you do I love your authenticity and just how you, you are just an amazing person doing great work for the world. We're gonna get into all of those amazing things of, of how you help young people try to figure out, not just a job that they could do, but something that they're actually passionate about. We'll get to those things, but I'd love to dial it back to the beginnings of your story. So?

Mike Wysocki 3:31

Go crazy. Ask,

Caroline 3:33

Help me understand.

Mike Wysocki 3:33

Yeah.

Caroline 3:36

Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? What was life like for the really young Mike?

Mike Wysocki 3:45

I was, I was born in the city of Presidents, Quincy, Massachusetts. Okay, so you got John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and me. Uh, so Quincy is a little south of Boston and that's where I was born, but I, you know, that's where I was just born. So I ended up, uh, growing up in the next town down, which is called, Weymouth. And it was a section of Weymouth called North Weymouth, Massachusetts. And what Weymouth is famous for is again, uh, John Adams' wife Abigail Adams and Abigail's from Waymouth and as well as the movie Blow. Um, George Young is from Waymouth too, and he was the biggest cocaine dealer in America. So those are the two most famous people from where I grew up. One on both sections of the spectrum, you know, so you've got super, you know, helpful to society in American history, and another guy who probably destroyed a lot of history, so, uh, so that's,

Caroline 4:39

And so when you were really little, like, what did you enjoy doing? What was, did you have any brothers and sisters?

Mike Wysocki 4:46

Yeah. But I mean, my, my siblings were nice and all like that, but I was more or less hanging around the local neighborhood kids. Um, we were playing a lot of sports, acting like idiots. Um, just, you know, having fun because, you know, and it's funny, my, my third book's gonna be about one of the summers, but the fact is it was just like. era I grew up was with blue collar, low income area, and all like that. And so all the parents came from, you know, the great generation, whatever, world War II, uh, Korean War. So a lot of our parents were involved in those wars. So in my thought process was that they're like, you know what, let the kids run amuck. Who cares? Because there's no, you know, the time, I mean, Vietnam was ending and all like that. And so that was still, I mean, everybody was just so, you know what? We're done with the war stuff. Let's just let the kids do whatever they want. And, um, so yeah, so it was just basically playing sports goofing around, causing trouble being a jackass. Uh, and that's what my childhood was. And it was, you know, we, we got, got in a lot of trouble, but we've got out of a lot of trouble too. So, but you know, I mean, it was, it was pretty harmless. Nothing really super bad and nothing really super good. So, yeah. That's all good fun stuff.

Caroline 5:55

Any particular sports that you liked more than others?

Mike Wysocki 5:58

We played'em all. Um, but I, I liked baseball probably the most. But, you know, it was inter, the whole sports thing was interesting because we'd play the sports, but yet constantly have conflicts with the coaches and they would like, uh, authorities, management figures. So it's like we're playing the sports and then they try to, you know, help you out. And you're like, yeah, don't worry about it. I, I already know everything. I'm 10, 12 years old, you know what I mean? So, so yeah. So it was more or less like, uh, organized sports wasn't as fun as unorganized. So unorganized was more fun because we could break up the rules, change the rules, and debate the whole time about that. So baseball, wiffle ball, you know, and then some, uh, hockey's big over there, so a lot of hockey playing, playing on the ponds and the ice and stuff like that. So that's what the world was, you know? Um, that's been pretty simple. America really.

Caroline 6:50

And then so, uh, blue collar area, you guys are out having the time of your life, enjoying, enjoying with kids, maybe. Yeah, getting in trouble, um, doing sports. What about school time? Was there anything that interested you during school time or was it just a necessary thing you had to do?

Mike Wysocki 7:10

The necessarily thing you had to do. It was, uh, it was, it was just social time, basically. You know, you go to school, you talk to the kids, you go to school with, you know, you talk about what's happening. Um, and my joke about the high school was by the time I get there, was just like, you get there on Monday and Tuesday, you talk about what you did on the weekend. Wednesday, you watch the clock Thursday and Friday, you talk what we gonna do in the weekend? And repeat because nobody there was, there was no care. The thing was, it's just like, you know, I mean, there was students over there that were doing well, and then there's the dopes. I mean, no matter how bad you were as a student, there's always somebody dumber than you in class. So they gotta go fail. And so you just sit there and skate by, it's just like, you just don't care. It's just, you know, it's like, yeah, it's just a part of life you gotta deal with. And you're like, okay, I'm here. What's recess? Let's go play kickball. And uh, that was it. Seriously. I mean, there was no, there was no, no pressure. I bring my report card home, my practice and say, oh, you're only gonna do is wreck your, wreck, your own future. And so I'm like, oh, whatever. Who cares? I don't care. My siblings were trying, I, my older sibling and my younger sibling, they actually, you know, did well in school, did all that focus. I was just like, you know, know, the student, my parents expected to go nowhere, so there was no pressure on me because they already expected failure. So there's only one way up, you know?

Caroline 8:24

Interesting. Interesting. Okay. And so then as you kind of got through high school, then, how did you decide what, what you wanted to do after high school?

Mike Wysocki 8:33

High school was so easy. Social promotions. Um, and so again, go back to that is uh,'cause I remember it's just like, again, get a C or D and you pass and they let you go. And I mean, I remember one, my, my, my, my, one of my favorite teachers, Mr. Arvidson in the math calculus class where algebra, I don't even know what it was, but it was coming to the final exam. On Fridays we'd take the day off and just skip it and skip school and go golfing, right? And so he'd always ask about golfing Monday, how'd you do, how'd you, how'd you score this? Then he came to the final, Hey, Mr. Arvidson, what's the deal? Do I have to study for this? And he goes, yeah, you should. And I go, okay. I took the test, didn't study, obviously, and I go, Mr. Arvidson, say, look at this I got a D, I didn't study see? He's like, Ugh. You know? But anyway, so yeah. So after, so I get outta high school. And during that time, it's like, what do you do at the end of school? And I'm like, okay. I was like, you know, you can go in the military, go to work. I don't wanna do the work. The military sounded interesting. So I took some tests for that. Did okay. And they kept on trying to recruit me, but my mother's like, no, no, no. She goes, I'm sick of sending, you know, so many young people that she knew died in Vietnam and the people that went to Korea. So the military thing was just like, I, you know, I gotta do something good for my mother. I can't keep being a jackass. And so I'm like, okay, let's, let's go to, let's go to college. So I talked to the career counselor, and the career counselor recommends me to go to a college that doesn't even exist. How many people, you know, went Boston State? It was a school that, you know, it was like got bought up years ago by UMass. But, so I ended up starting UMass Boston and I started there going to college. Seeing the world from high school to college, that, that transition was really interesting. So I started up UMass Boston and just, you know, see what would happen there. And you know, like, what do I do? Everybody's like, oh, engineering pays the bills. And I'm like, I'll go into engineering. So I take all these math classes, I flunk'em all. And so I'm like, damn, what's gonna happen now? Um,

Caroline 10:25

Yeah. And so then, and then how did you decide? So it's like, so you're, I guess on one hand you're trying to listen to and, and get out of that blue collar area or get money or like, that becomes the target. Is, is, is that the, so it's like on one hand you're trying to do something that your mom would appreciate and secondly, get some money to maybe get the hell out, or at least have a better, better life than where you, where you had been.

Mike Wysocki 10:52

But,

Caroline 10:52

Is that fair?

Mike Wysocki 10:53

With my buddies and just drinking beer was something fun too. So it's just like. I kind of wanted to get a good gig, but also, I didn't know really where I was. But here's what happened though, is interesting. But money, I mean, you know, I worked part-time and the school was paid for because we, you know, my parents had no money. So the fact that I, you, you file a, um, my father was good at paperwork, and so we did the applications for, uh, financial aid. So boom, so that wasn't, that wasn't a problem. Then I bumped into, um, high school was my buddy Dino, and Dino came from another section of Weymouth, which was extremely poor. I mean, Dino grew up in serious poverty, and, um, I go, Hey, Dino. I go, what are you doing after high school? He goes, I'm going to UMass Amherst. I go, Dino, go Amherst. I go, you gotta pay for room and board and all that stuff. It's gonna, I go, where do you get the money? you're poorer than I am. He goes, financial aid. he goes, we poor the state. The taxpayers pay for us to do whatever we want. And I'm like, I could mean, I can transfer he goes, yeah. So when I'm at UMass Boston, I'm like, okay. First year I do terrible in math. And I'm like, okay, then I'll take some other simpler classes and so I can do good enough to transfer to UMass Amherst that was the game changing part of my life because I went from a commuter college where you're dealing with not people just outta high school, people that are working, people that are like older and I can't relate to them'cause it's like they tell you stuff and talk to you and more like they real grownups. And I'm like, I'm still really mentally still a young person. was a little teenager in my head, which I was. And then I'm like, you know what, go to UMass Amherst, drink beers, have fun, act like a jackass and get a college degree. Good goal. Right? So that's what I did transferred out there. And the people that I met, my God, they were like, oh, I'm gonna do this. I'm going to graduate school. I'm going to start a business, do all these different things going into sales. And I'm like, whoa. They were actually really, the young people were really with thoughts after tomorrow, and I'm like, this is, I've never,

Caroline 12:53

Yeah.

Mike Wysocki 12:54

With anybody like this. So that, that was a, was in changing me from just figuring out how to get, get a job from a college degree to actually thinking about where I should be and what I should do. So that's why it's, I think it's always imperative, one, to get outta your environment too and meet other people and, uh, networking and start expanding your horizons versus, the handful of dopes you hang around that with, that you drink beer and talk about sports with, you know, some, yeah.

Caroline 13:25

Uh, those are good points. And, and so the first college, were you commuting to that college and then UMass Amherst, then did you live there, like on campus or near campus? Is that, so it was both, I guess, the people who were around you at UMass Amherst plus the fact that, I think you moved there. I, I don't know how, I don't know my geography of Massachusetts.

Mike Wysocki 13:48

Might, might not. Well,

Caroline 13:49

Yeah.

Mike Wysocki 13:50

About it, people have to explain geography because, you know, if you came from Idaho or Kansas, I don't know the difference between, you know, St. Louis and Lenexa or, or something like that. Right? So, so.

Caroline 14:00

Right, right,

Mike Wysocki 14:01

I

Caroline 14:01

Right.

Mike Wysocki 14:01

Of Boston, so I commuted for my first two years of college to UMass Boston because again, there was no focus, no understanding of what I wanted to do. So I took just basically enough courses to consider myself a full-time student. And I also worked part-time just to try to figure out where to do and what to go at. And so I was working in a grocery store. Part-time, and they kept on trying to recruit me to go into management. And it just seems so, I mean, unexciting soul less, so it's like, you know, putting cans on a shelf for the next 30 or 40 years, it's like, no, that was just horrible. And so UMass Amherst is two hours away from Boston. So you lived there and I lived on,

Caroline 14:41

Ah.

Mike Wysocki 14:42

Majority of the time that I was at the school for two and a half years, and that's it. So you're out of your element. Again, fish outta water, you're out of your usual element of where you grew up. Everybody, you know what's happening, what's going on, in a, in depressed mentally area, but there was something missing. It's, it was like a, it seemed soulless environment. There was no, um, like how can I get myself going? one of my friend's, older sisters used to tell me, she goes, it's not the town. It's who you socialize with. She goes, that's the issue.'Cause she's very successful, did well. And she only grew up a mile away from me. But the fact about it is, it's, who you socialize and who you deal with. So you, if you deal with a lot of negativity and you're hanging out with people that are, not being helpful to your future and you're talking to elders who haven't been successful, then they're gonna give you a lot of bad advice. So I was just listening to a lot of bad advice and negativity really. I mean, it really screwed me up. And,'cause I was almost like, the victim mentality, blah, blah, blah, blaming the world, we're stuck in this situation. Who cares? I'll pump gas up the street, you know, drink beers, whatever. I don't care. And it just, you know, that attitude isn't good for anybody. And so I had to get out of that attitude. And that's when I learned that there is hope. I mean, you can go out there and do things the world. And, uh, that's what happened when I went to UMass. I started meeting students and, and what their thoughts and their angles and ideas were were pretty intense. And it was great. And so I'm like, wow, this is amazing.

Caroline 16:12

so getting out of your original environment into a brand new place with new, groups of friends. People seem like they had ideas and things of what they wanted to do, and that starts catching on. But then how did you pick what you were gonna study for the remainder of your time in college? How did you choose, like, I guess I'll get this major.

Mike Wysocki 16:32

I changed over to sociology when I was at UMass Boston because, again, my friend's sister and we, because she went to the same school and she was talking, she goes, well, if you're not doing well in the sciences, what do you know about sociology? I go, I go, nothing. I go is the next question. Of course. Is it difficult? She goes, no, not really. And I go, okay, that's my major. So I, um, I started in sociology and then when I went transferred out to UMass Amherst, I'm like, you know, so I wanna be a sociology major. But the irony is, it, it did actually interest me. Uh, and, you know, all the different angles and thoughts about it and what they talk about it in different subject. Some class, I mean, some of the class were horrible. I remember taking one class that one of the teachers, I, I still to this day, I probably couldn't figure out what the hell he was talking about, but other ones were really, clear and concise and helped out as well as it helps get, improving your writing and you can learn a great deal at UMass Boston though. this is another changing point that if forgot to add, was, um, when I took the class, when I took the test just to go into what English class or what math class you're supposed to start off in college, Math, I started off with all the other students, whatever you call algebra 101, whatever the math is, you start off with. In English, I start off in English 010, which is below English 101. So this is where the students that barely get into school can't write or can't speak and have major issues go. So when I went to that, when I went to, when I went to that class and all the teachers said, okay, write a, write a paper about anything you want. And I did it. Then when the teacher passed it out, she goes, can we talk up the class? She goes, that's, I got an idea for you that I think will help. And I go, sure. She goes, are you okay with getting a tutor? And I'm like, tutor? I go, is that, am I that bad? She goes, no, no, no, no. She goes, you're fine. But she goes, we just need to give you some basics so you have understanding about writing. I'm like, okay. So I met with the tutor myself and this other student from South Boston and the tutor's like, okay, which, which amazing high schools did you guys go to? And we told him, and he is like, whoa. And I go, what's up? He goes, he goes, do you wanna learn how to write? And I go, of course. Sure. He goes, both of myself and the student, Joe, he agreed. And so he taught us the basics. He goes, okay, throw everything out. I'll teach you how to write a sentence, a paragraph to form an argument, debate, and all of that. And from there I learned how to write. And that was another changing point too, because if I didn't take the classroom, Eleanor Walks the professor and she didn't pair me with that tutor. I, I can guarantee right now I wouldn't be talking to you. I'd be, you know, doing something.

Caroline 19:10

Now, and now you come to write, like you've, you're, you're writing your third book, right? And so like, this is ama Yeah. Okay. So this tutor, so that class, even though it's like, are you kidding me? Like you're putting me below this. But they, they met you where you were that tutor, saw who you were and helped you, took a personal interest in your development, and you were already and willing to learn when there was somebody who cared about the subject and who showed a bit of interest in you. You met them where they were and then rose up. That's awesome.

Mike Wysocki 19:42

It was a pivotal point in life. Uh, the other thing too is you have to understand this. I'm in a class with students that they're often the Boston area course,'cause they have to go commute to the school. But some of, I mean this is like the second and third language. You're from foreign country, some of the guys, people in the class. And so a lot of us were from the, low income areas and struggling. But I'm thinking to myself's, like. Not only was I struggling, it's like I, I, grew up right in the area and I still had to get a tutor with some of the other students, you know, could've grew up in Zimbabwe and it was like they passed the class. It's like, really? Because I, again, do I blame the system? No, because I skated through school. They're like, I mean, it was easy. Where I went to high school was, is like if you study, you get the A, if you act like a jackass, you get the F and you fail. And if you sit there and shut up, give you the D and you can float by. And I'm like, ugh. That's a deal. I'll take the D and you know, he said to show up and do okay in school and you could float by. And then UMass Boston at that time was at newest school, so they were at like acceptance rates, like 99%. So then after that it just, you know, it's, it, one of my friends always says it's a little wins in life that build up. Everybody wants to, you know,

Caroline 20:57

Yeah.

Mike Wysocki 20:58

House in, Beverly Hills or the upper East side of Manhattan, but it doesn't work that way. You gotta start off, smaller and people don't get that.

Caroline 21:07

And that persistence of keep trying, keep trying. Get up, keep going. Try it again. And I think also your curiosity. You, you see, you, you had this ability to like ask some questions from people that you respected. You heard a lot of advice from people that just gave it to you anyway. You asked some questions about people you respected and you, and you kind of followed that and went and tried it out. You're like, ah, what do I got to lose? I'll just go see.

Mike Wysocki 21:30

Where I grew up is the resiliency factor. and street smarts is probably some people would call it. But the fact is that you can take a beating and keep moving on and, you know, you don't sit there and cry in the corner as they did in what's that movie. Uh, you know, don't put baby in the corner, uh, Dirty Dancing or whatever. But the fact is, which is always a funny quote, but, you cry with spillt milk, whatever, whatever the terminology, you prefer the best. But the fact is, if you're resilient and you can deal with failure, um, and that's one of the thing about it is I, I can deal with way more than most people. Um, which is great. And because of that, that, that's helpful in a sales career. But it's helpful in life as well you're gonna fail and how you deal with it and how you react to it, is the, is the imperative part of your life. And if you show some resiliency and you just don't give up and keep fighting, no matter what people say or do. And as I read about it in my next book, I mean book two actually, by the way, is with the editor, I'm like, you know what? I go, I could take a verbal abuse any day of the week. It's better than an ass beating. You know what I mean? So I'd rather have somebody call me something or say I'm a failure or loser than punch me in the face or hit me with a hammer, right? So you wanna, you gotta be able to deal with things and so many people are soft or they're not strong. And, and if they can learn to deal with that, I mean, you don't have to be the smartest person in the room. I've seen so much failure from people that it, that are so intelligent. It's the person that can handle it. And uh, it's funny, the person that talks about resilience in my next book is one of the guys I grew up with, he's very successful in business and he was reading the book and being one of the editors, he's like, you missed resiliency. And I'm like. I go, what do you think? And he gave me an awesome quote. I go, I'm gonna use it and use your name too. And he's like, approved it, of course. So, but yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of interesting things. That's why it's like, why I'm glad that you speak to people out there in, careers and occupations because they can give you their side suggestions versus, you know, the stereotypical CEOs like, oh yeah, I got an MBA from Wharton. I worked in Wall Street and I kicked some keester and I retired at 32 and now I, you know, Lear jet over to Maui on the weekends. My cocktail.

Caroline 23:39

Yeah. And the rest of us are like that. That's not been our experience. Um, okay, so you are at UMass Amherst. You now know how to write because you had had done that at, at UMass Boston. You're doing sociology, you graduate, and then what?

Mike Wysocki 23:54

Okay. So when I'm in college, I'm like, the whole goal is just get the degree. Get out because by now I'm getting tired of college. I'm like, okay. At the end, it was a writing class. So you remind me, I did write a, for one of my, um, film courses, I remember, atu and that was one of my best papers ever written. The teacher's like, he goes, you know what, I'm just gonna give you the a because I laughed the whole time. He goes, this is perfect. No, he goes, it's funny as hell. So all I wanna do is get get the BA, get outta college, get outta college, and go get a job in business, business job, what do you do? I'm gonna go into business, which is vague, which means nothing to anybody in the, anybody's in the workforce is like,

Caroline 24:32

Exactly.

Mike Wysocki 24:33

So in my head business, yeah,

Caroline 24:36

None of your business.

Mike Wysocki 24:38

My in, in my head, it's like, you gotta get a job at one of these, you know, Boston companies and you go work and you do something and you make money and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's great. So. Boom, I get the degree. Okay. And I did meet with a career counselor or whatever when I was in school. And, you know, I don't even recall what happened. I remember I had to walk, it was a cold day. I saw a book and the book was like, what is a demographer like, uh, um, a magazine? I'm like, always, it just drives me crazy. I should've, I should've either read the article or ripped off the magazine because the fact is that is an interesting type of career. So what do I do? I go, I get outta college, I go back to Boston every two hours away. I live with my parents until I get myself going. I work part-time, um, at the liquor store so I can actually interview, like I work there Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. So I get interviews on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And so this is, this is how I prepared what I was gonna do myself. I asked my sister, I go, hey, she's a couple years old in the business world. I go, what's a good company to work for in Boston? But Fidelity. My whole goal, my whole focus, get a job at Fidelity.'cause if Fidelity is good, I can figure it out from there. I did. I busted tail, got all these interviews different ways, and I end up in Fidelity because the hiring manager went to UMass. He's two years older than me. Nice guy. And he just, he was like, you know, Western Massachusetts, like they call soda tonic, you know, like that. And so that's, we talked about was the difference between Eastern Massachusetts and Western Massachusetts. And that's the interview. And he goes, yeah, okay. You're hired. Yeah, because I'm hired at the lowest level, entry level gig. So I'm there and I'm sitting down, I get to meet all my cohorts. I'm working with all very nice people all throughout the United States. It was, it was kind of, I'm like to myself going, wow, fidelity would hire like, you know, a little bit higher echelon types, but I'm like, I didn't even, you know, finish college. What? I can't believe that. You know, so, so a lot of things that was kind of interesting. And then I do my first job and, and then the job is realized, it's called a quality control analyst, which I just analyze, which is, without a question, AI would take a job like that away in seven seconds. But the point is it's an entry level job and it was really monotonous. I did the same thing consistently. I was making extremely low money, but I had to gain experience. And from there, you know, you start meeting and talking to people and I started talking to people inside of Fidelity, HR, whatever I could to figure out ways to kind of grow in the company. And I kept on hitting walls. And then I foolishly listened to this young gal I've worked with and she goes, my friend's killing it. He sells life insurance. And I'm like, what do you mean killing it? She goes, he makes a lot of money. And I go, that's all I need to hear. So she, I go, can you introduce me to this guy? She goes, yeah, sure. So she introduced me to this guy. And, um, he was really a cool guy. And, uh, he's like, yeah, I, I can get you. He goes, this is the question to ask the vice president of sales. He'll talk, he'll like you, and then you're hired. That's how it works. And I'm like, okay. So I do that and I get into that industry I lasted maybe six months. It's, it's, it was a hell. I mean, everybody was nice. Everybody tried to help me. But when you're 22 years old talking about life insurance to like 70 year olds, there's, I mean, it's, it's, it's awful. I wanted energetic and my manager was such a good guy though. At the end he is like, you know what? He's like, I got some good clients. He goes, I'll call'em up, see if I can get you gigs. But they're all on. I lived in the south of Boston. They're all in the north of Boston, so the CUO would be impossible. And um, from there though, it just, I then I ended up in the next thing was tech sales. And I can tell you a little bit more about that, how that, that occurred too. If you, if you wanna hear about that.

Caroline 28:59

Yes, I'd love to hear, I'm absolutely fascinated by each twist and turn and

Mike Wysocki 29:04

So I started my technology career because, during the time I, I worked at Fidelity, uh, I was trying to just get a, an apartment, you know, with a friend or something like that to split, but couldn't find any, places or whatever. And then, um, everybody's buying real estate back then. So one of the guys I grew up with lived up the street from me. I mean, I knew him from like, sports or whatever, but it wasn't like, you know, we were like really close. And I go, Hey, I go, if you're interested, why I go buy a condo, we'll split it and, you know, make a couple bucks and see how it goes from there. He's like, I'm down. And so, because we had no money, I had to buy a condo on it, you know, dumpy area. Uh, and, and did that. And the person, the real, the biggest connection was the real estate. The real estate sales guy. Again, another slick sales guy. But he meant well, and he was like, Hey man, if you ever wanna talk about, you know where you wanna be or something like that, he goes, I got some good connections. So like, okay. So when I, when I left the life insurance company, and if I quit or they fired me, I, I can't recall, but it doesn't really matter. I called him up, I go, Hey man, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna come on bind. And he goes, just come to my office and we'll talk. And his angle was to try to get me into his firm, but he goes, gonna ask you if you have three months saved. And I, and I didn't. And then when it came to interest, he goes, I told you to say this. And I go, but I, I really don't have the cash. He goes, okay, let's pivot. What is your interest in computers? And it was little to none. And I go, I don't know, it's, I go, it sounds like the future or something like that. He goes, okay, my buddy is a sales manager at a computer company, a retail store, and you can start and learn how to sell that. I'm like, okay. So I met him at a lunch and this guy was like eating boozing the whole time. I'm like, okay, this is interesting. and that was it. He goes, yeah. He goes, Chip recommended you, so yeah, I'll hire you. I'm like, okay. Right. Started. He goes, he goes, how's this the payment? I'm like, oh sure. whatever he said. I was like, yeah, I gotta make money, so I'll take it. And then I started and I was, I'm working retail in Boston, and I just sit down, they go, here's your desk. And I'm like, okay. And the phone rang and I go, great. And he goes, yeah, pick it up and see what they want. And I go, what? And life insurance, sales. The phone never rings. It's cold call, cold, cold, cold call. And the phone rang and I picked it up going, know, Mike Wysocki computer factory. What can I, how can, the hell? I was amazed. And then like this, the guy who came, the general manager of that store to me. He goes, the, the general manager of the territory was in at the same time. He goes, wow. He goes, you're so excited about that I go, Jeff, I go, I just got, I got outta insurance sales. Nobody calls you. I go, these people wanna buy stuff, whatever I can do. Yeah. And so from there, I, we went out to a, a territory meeting in, um, a little west of Boston, um, called Metro West. And we, I met these sales dudes, like ex-football player guys, and they're like, okay, this is how you make the big bucks, blah, blah, blah. And they're talking money that I'm like, incomrehensible. And I'm like, whoa. And then their teams ready to expand. And for some reason when I met them, they liked me or they went to Jeff and they go, Hey Jeff, we're looking to expand. You get, get young guns over there, you think you can hire? And he goes, yeah, I got this one guy who's ecstatic, they go get him over here. And I'm like, okay. So I, you know, met and talked to him and they're like, yeah, sure. All you gotta do, we, they go, we got this huge contract. Like, what does that mean? Go, well, you gotta be selling to Western Unions. I go, how's the process work? He goes, it doesn't work. He goes, it's not difficult. Western Union's covering the cost. There's no cost to them. And I'm like, wait a second, they can buy without money. Yep. Go, I'm in. So we're just constantly calling Western Unions up, explaining the pitch. And I mean, these guys were nicking and diming, but I can get, you know, docs from my friend and they call'em dose. They didn't know how to save it back then. And I'm like, it's included in the package. And so from there, I just started selling'em all computer stuff. The money started growing and it was really cool. But again, I then I'm like, okay, how can I expand from here? Then I ended up going into software sales because everybody's like, the future's not hardware, it's software. And I'm like, okay. So I went to a software company closer to my house. So my commute was in 45 minutes. It was five. Um, and that was a disaster. The sales management was awful. and there was no progression. So then after that, um, it just went south. I mean, I just started taking these gigs to make a couple bucks here and there. And then, um, it was 20, 25, 26 is when the brain matures. And then from there I'm like, you know, what the hell am I doing? I'm a disaster surviving, paying the bills, living this weird lifestyle. It's like I'm watching like late night tv, you know, who watches late night tv, like people who just don't do anything. And so I'm like waking up late, going to the gym, eating dinner with my parents, you know, trying to look for jobs. Um, and I forget what happened, but I connected with somebody who's like, you know what, there's, there's jobs, temporary jobs through these temp agencies to go there. And I'm like, you know what? That's probably a good idea. So I can think about what the hell I want to do with myself. I like everybody out there. I enjoyed entertainment and I'm like, you know, I wanna write for TV'cause I watch the sitcoms and not funny. I can do better, I'm sure. And, uh, so I'm working on that on the side. And then I just take a temp job in Boston it was just basically at a low level. And the people were really goofy, which was good because it helped the comedy to think out, what am I supposed to do myself? And so then I'm like, you know what, I'll just save enough. I, I moved back home, rented the condo out. He got kept getting married, so the condo's like rented barely. That was a nightmare too. And so I'm like, I started planning and plotting what I was supposed to do and my theory was, I'll give Los Angeles a shot. Because I'm already failing drastically in the Boston area. And my argument was I didn't go to Harvard, I didn't go to MIT, I had no connection. So why even hire me? I'm useless. I have no skills. you know, just because I grew up in the area that that's not a reason. So I'm like, you know what? Going to LA and see what the hell happens. And I'll go right for the movies of tv. so I get to, I, I, so I jump in the car at 28 and I do that. And then you find out everybody in, everybody in the world.

Caroline 35:36

Ha.

Mike Wysocki 35:36

Things.

Caroline 35:37

Have you been there, you just like, you just picked it. Had you ever been out west or you just like decided you're gonna do that'cause that's where people that did TV stuff were,

Mike Wysocki 35:49

Grade, I spent the summer in Vegas, uh, Oakland, uh, Huntington Beach with like relatives. So I got a, I got a taste of it.

Caroline 35:58

Oh.

Mike Wysocki 35:59

Liked Southern California. uh, because I, you know, to me it was like, warm and it was. Know the future. At the time, California was the place to go to, to build yourself up a lot of East coast transplants, which is a good and a bad thing. Um, but the fact is, I, I knew that to try to make it, some people went to New York, but I wanted to go to LA because one, I hated the weather, and my argument was simple, if I fail, I won't freeze. That was, I mean, but for, but here's,

Caroline 36:31

I love it.

Mike Wysocki 36:32

You know, parents that always, like, you know, you get, they got a house, I mean a small house and like that, and they, you know, again, money was always tight, but I failed, I could always just fly back and just crash out, you know, one of the, my old bedroom or whatever, and then start over again. The good, that's a good thing about safety nets. Uh, and so I always make sure that in case of emergency, I have safety nets here and there. Like right now, if everything went to hell, I could crash my buddy's house and drive crazy. But, but everything, you know, everything's fine right now. But the point is, I, I go to LA to try to figure this out. Taking part-time classes, writing and script writing, all that stuff. And, um, it wasn't a joy. I was getting nowhere fast. I, I, I didn't, couldn't get an agent, couldn't get any help, couldn't get any connections through a couple people I did here and there. But again, it's a full-time, you, you have to write full-time and consistently do it. So a lot of the people who are in that industry, either got connected at college and writing that way. So a lot from the Harvard world, Ivy's, their family had money. And so the person just does it full-time. So it's a really, it's a tough way to, to break out and do it. But those aren't excuses. It, I just didn't make it so, but so what, who cares? But in tech though, I got back in because I did a temp job again in Los Angeles, which was a mess. Which is no fun. So boring. And then I just like, uh, connect with a friend back east and I go, hey man, do you know anybody in California? And he goes, wow, it's the old sales manager over here. Just moved to a place called El Segundo. And he goes, is that near Los Angeles? I go, it's two, it's two towns away. That's awesome. So I called him up, he goes, what do you need? I go, blah, blah, blah. He goes, okay, inside sales you, you'll pay your bills good enough. So I get into inside sales, keep trying to write, keep failing, failing, failing on the writing side. Then I start meeting these people, making some serious cash. They're called outside sales reps for vendors. They sell different products. And so I start to pony up and buddy up with them because they want champions. They want people inside the organization that they cover the costs and push their products. And I'm like, I can do that. I can be a puppet. And so I did that. And from there then you eventually get to those companies. You work outside and they just throw money at you. I mean, the job's monotonous mentally. You don't use your brain. I mean, I just only know how to talk technology sales. Uh, and that's it. But you get to travel the country, you get to eat at the greatest steakhouse, you get to go to sporting events. So you're blue in the face, but again, you don't use your brain. It's monotonous. There's no fun, there's no choice, especially in an industry that you have no interest in. That's, that's basically what happened. You give it 30 years, and I was well known in Los Angeles, so to get a gig was no problem because everybody's like, well, I'll just go, wife sake, he'll do it. And so that's what I did.

Caroline 39:19

So you got good money.

Mike Wysocki 39:21

Yeah.

Caroline 39:21

You had a stable job, you were able to buy all the things. You're not necessarily feeling happy or content, but you keep doing it because it, it seemed to, to fulfill a lot of the things that people say, make someone successful, like to have a, you know, all these things and be able to buy them and go and do different, different stuff. And yet you're still kind of like wanting to do writing, but it's not working out. But you're like, ah, I guess I'll just keep doing this thing. And you keep falling into some level of success that's sustainable, but yet, what does it feel like?

Mike Wysocki 39:57

And that's a, that, that question's imperative and I hope young people are listening because this is, the question is, is deep. And the reason is, is because people from the low income, I was a first generation low income student, so my parents didn't go to college. I was, you know, first one to go to school and there was, the money was always tight. Okay? We're all, we're told, especially from an environment that doesn't have anybody in the professional classes, that money is the answer to every problem out there. Sure. Have. Make sure you have good health. If you can secure anything to make money, life is awesome. And so everybody buys into this. I still talk to these young students who buy into it because again, they're from families with low income, so they don't understand there's more to it than that. And that's when it all kicked in because money wasn't really the issue at the time. It was some type of interest in joy monotony. It's like, is this it? Is this what I'm gonna be doing? There is absolutely no joy. And one of my good friends in the industry, this guy I worked with, uh, worked with on and off, will competed against, you know, for years. People used to, you know, we used to kinda look, we looked the same, so people always got confused, which is weird. Um, and so I talked to him one time, I'm not gonna use his name, but I said, Hey, I go, I think I'd say about 95% of, of it's mostly men too. Guys in tech sales are miserable. And he goes, you're way off. It's 97% and it just shows you everybody, there's no joy because a lot of them there, you know, you meet a few of'em that, that were former engineers or a tech weenies that just happen to be good sales guys and that's, that, that's very rare to meet. It's most of these guys, they're just regular businessmen. Family married with two kids, you know, they have a couple cars, life's good, they get a couple vacations a year, blah, blah, blah. But they, they're, they're extremely unhappy and, and miserable. And so, but it was a good thing because it taught me a lot, it taught me to find out is everybody's miserable or as unhappy as I am in their career? And that's what from there got me to my next step, which was the idea. I'm doing the research and, and figuring this out so I could publish this multi award-winning book, um, to help change the next generation, to help them with decisions on career choice. So I'm making this cash, and so instead of, you know, buying an extra car or going on an extra vacation or even putting a down payment on the second house, blah, blah, blah, I said, I wanna invested into building, for figuring this problem up. so because I was in sales, I knew I couldn't do it myself. So you hire, you sub things out that you don't like. I didn't know how to do a database and build up a questionnaire on a website. This was at the infancy. So again, I talked to another buddy in the industry. Again a top sales guy. He's just a, still a machine that both those guys I used to connect with, the advisors, they're still going on like maniacs and um, he goes, Hey, I know a guy who builds websites. I'm like, perfect, that's my buddy. So I went through all these questions, which I think the people should have asked about careers, and I talked to a lot of people I knew in careers. I go, what? You know, gimme some questions. So I put'em all together and I started reaching out to people through that I was connect network to or in industries that I wanna get some data about industry and asking to fill out questionnaires. And I got a bunch of them. so the majority of people in the book that I wrote. Is 101 careers by, you know, careers by the people. 101 careers by the professionals, basically something like that. each just ask 20 plus questions. The majority of five years in their field, they took off their last name because there's no, so there's no blow back. Because I always tell the students, I go, if you ever see somebody get interviewed and they're still in their occupation. Take it with a grain of salt. The local vice president of the bank,

Caroline 43:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Wysocki 44:00

Say the job isn't a joy. He'll be like, oh, I wake up. You know?'Cause you make it 250. I wake up and I, I, I go into work and I hug my manager and we're best friends and we talk about everything. We're just, every, it's so, so great. And, and Susie, my associate, oh my god. Funny. She makes the best donuts. Oh my God. It's just everything, blah, blah. And we dance in unicorns and life is great, blah, blah, blah, nonsense. So my thing was, was to get the information of people from CEOs, actuaries, accountants, all over the map, break up into Holland's occupational themes, six different chapters of our crazy buddy John Holland from RIASEC. The answer to the conclusion, my stuff's clear and concise. I tell how I failed and what I should have done to prepare for the workforce. It's powerful because I don't hold back punches. It's vicious. And I, I'm only attacking myself, so that's why people see it as funny because it's like, you know, constant like I should have did, you know, should have, would've, could've, right? And did the book come out any good? It won five awards as of today, it has endorsements from educators of Harvard, Stanford, UMass, BU, Northeast, and all these top schools in nonprofits, military, all of that. So that's what's, um, so it gets out there and then I talk to students out there in, um, in the school system, high schools and colleges and, um, that is interesting as well. And I could tell you some more stories about what I see in America.

Caroline 45:34

Yeah, please, please do. I lo I, I love this. So you're, you're inspired by your success and your lack of fulfillment to go out and start getting some data. You know, maybe part of that sociology kind of influence too, of let's just go see how it really is. Yeah. And, and, and go out and like get more data yourself because it's, I, and I had this feeling a little bit too, I just didn't go out and get the data from a bunch of people at that time. But it was, I was looking around, well I'm shaking a fricking, they, they call this thing, it looked like a, like a balloon if you had like pulled it down, but it was made outta glass and it was called a separatory funnel. And you make some sort of reaction and you put your stuff in there and you swirl it and the organic layer and the aqueous layer separate and you're like, oh, woo. And as you're swirling this thing, I'm looking around and you gotta gotta be a little bit delicate'cause you got chemicals in there. I'm looking at the other people and I'm like, is everybody thinking this is really fricking miserable? Like, who in their right mind would love doing this crap with, you know, toxic chemicals? Ah, I'm not liking it. And I'm looking around at the other people in the lab and some people are like just sheer joy on their face. And I'm like, okay, well problems must be me then, but I'll keep doing it'cause I already decided I need to finish this thing. So you are having these kind of thoughts on your own and you're like, you know what, let me just go out and get real data that led to this awesome, awesome book. I thank you for that. And yeah, I'd love to know more about you talking to, to people in the schools, the one that matter and, and I think even in our initial conversation you mentioned something about like there's certain schools you target, versus where other people might target. So let's, let's talk about, about that and why and how that's making such a, a, a difference.

Mike Wysocki 47:29

One thing I,

Caroline 47:29

To give them reality.

Mike Wysocki 47:30

That are listening, you have to understand, Caroline, went into hard science, the real sciences, polymer science. I went into social sciences, which is a little bit easier to follow through. So that's a real hardcore science, which everybody's like pushing everybody into stem. Stem. Oh wait, you're a woman in stem. Your example is you're a woman in stem and she didn't,

Caroline 47:53

I know that was the thing. That was a push.

Mike Wysocki 47:55

Just, that's what I always make a big deal about. I was like, more women in stem. I'm like, what if they don't like it? it's who cares?

Caroline 48:02

Right.

Mike Wysocki 48:02

To push somebody. Everybody else who has no clue is trying to push people into, into these little holes'cause it makes them feel better.

Caroline 48:11

Right.

Mike Wysocki 48:12

But the person in the hole's like, I don't like this. So it's just like, so you, you, your background is somebody who's perfect for like one of the targets and all like that because you tried the hard stuff and you went into something different. And people have to understand that is you really have to drill down to figure out what interest, what you, you like. Okay, so lemme talk about the schools and this is awesome. so the funny thing is, is a lot of people in the career readiness space, which I focus on, there's a lot of like authors and speakers, and most of'em are really, when you connect with them, you respond to them. They're good people. They're trying to do good for society and work with them. But most of them only speak to other educators. So these people have, know, master's, PhDs, all of that stuff in psychology, psychiatry, all, you know, all these high end sciences, education, all that. And they wanna talk to educators about all these different subjects and blah, blah, blah. You know, we have to increase the percentage of, you know, this, this gender and this ethnic background in this industry because of this X, Y, and Z. I'm like, alright, great. That's good stuff, not my value. Okay, mine's the students. And so I started asking, I go, Hey, how you know, do you guys speak to a lot of students? The response was, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, what? Nobody speaks to students, there's one guy in South Carolina.

Caroline 49:36

Right.

Mike Wysocki 49:37

The ball. And so I, he, I go, Brooks, I hear you speak to students. He goes, yeah. And he goes, why do you wanna do that? And I go,'cause it's ultimate joy. He goes, I know, I do it. And he goes, were you a teacher or a comedian? And I go, what do you mean? He goes, are the only people that will do it. And I'm like, wow. And he goes, ah, don't worry. Those, those, there's two of us, probably three or four, you know, if I'm missing a few. So that's a, that's a big issue right there in itself because when the, when these career readiness people speak to educators, how much are the educators getting it and passing it through? they just sitting there checking the box, going, I want to hear somebody speak, they're actually using it, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, cut out the middleman. Just get me in front of the students. And so that's what I did when I put the book out. I have to build a resume and the student people have to listen out. They got understanding. It's like I didn't accept any payments. Uh, because the fact is I'm building a resume. So I can say I spoke at these different schools, high schools and colleges. And it was amazing. But the difference is, and I try to focus on, I don't want, I mean, if the top 50 wants to hire me and have me speak question, it's a joy. These students are cutting edge. They're prepared, dear, organized, they're gonna run the country, no questions asked. All done when I speak to school, ranked 724. We've got problems. And I clearly can explain the issues and the problems with it. The other thing too, what killed me when I spoke to some of the high schools the high schools, not in some of the better areas were some of the most interesting. And some of the students that I met were amazing. I spoke at this one school, uh, Holt. High school. So it's all high school, but they call it middle high school. I don't know why.'cause the, the way it's built, you know, it's like three to huge four schools around. And they were bringing these kids in from the inner city or section, uh, in Massachusetts called Brockton. It's not the greatest area, it's very low income. It's known for the, they call it boxes because it's known for, and uh, Jake Lama or something like that. It was one, one of the fighters anyways, long time ago. But the point is, is when I spoke to the students, some of the students that, and it happened over here in Maui too, some of the students that are not doing well, are not challenged in school, had some of the most interesting, best questions because school's not interesting them. They're like me, they're barely getting by, but they wanna do something else after school. And I remember this young, this one young guy, I think he was 11th grader, and he came up with some amazing questions and we just

Caroline 52:19

back

Mike Wysocki 52:19

and forth. So all the other students are just like. a dialogue between these two. At the end I spoke to him, stay on focused blah, blah, blah. And the teachers, this happens often. They go, how did you pick him out? Or why'd you pick him out? He go, he has some good questions, he's very interested. They go, and this happened a few times, this student's not one of our better students. And I go, he's not challenged. go, he needs, he, he, he, he can make it. There's no question. He just has to get out of his environment. And his issue was, very similar to his brother. His brother's a gangster. His brother, the cops are there all the time. There's all his problems. The cops get him confused. So he used to deal with a lot of serious adult issues just because he looks like somebody who is a thug. So that was intense over here when I spoke in Maui on one of the high schools, these two, I had to, before I spoke and I spoke like six different times, they showed a video about some internship in the summer working with the forestry. And I'm watching it, and then I'm watching, you know, by the time I'm seeing my third time, I'm bored with it, right? It's like two minutes. I'm watching the students. And these, these two students are like in the back, these two, you can tell they have a, you know, Hawaiian blood kids. And so I'm ready to speak and I go, hey, before I start off, I, I just wanna acknowledge these two young men over here. I go, I watched four or five of these videos because I have to before they start speaking. And you two are the most excited out of any student in this whole school. And I go, just outta curiosity, do you guys like to go to like the woods camping, fishing, all that stuff? They go, oh yeah, that's our world. And I go, please, for the please the love of God for the, for the my sanity apply for this internship. Here's an example, I was at a career fair at the University of Hawaii Maui College. Just there, you know, just stand at the table.'cause I do things for Maui and I spoke to other, the other vendors and one was a forest, a guy, forestry. And I said, I go, hey man, how's it going? I go, you must be tons of applications. He goes, nothing. I be nothing. I go, it's an outdoor gig. You work for the feds in Maui. If somebody's into like the forestry world, the greatest job ever. And he goes, yeah, to you. What? I go, what's the problem? Then he goes, the sections in Maui, it's like, you know. They go, they all live in South Maui and they don't wanna live up country, which is not big. Seriously, it's not a big far, I go, why they rent in up country, it's less expensive and you know what I mean? It's just, it's these little things that you like, this opportunity and possibility and yet some people are confused. But at it, like the top 50, when I speak at those schools, top 50 colleges, students are on it, hey, how many on LinkedIn? All of'em raise their hands. They're doing internships. They're, they're doing, um, school clubs. They're trying to get leadership. They understand professional soft skills. Bring it back to school. Rank one 50. No, clueless, not many are LinkedIn.

Caroline 55:23

Yeah.

Mike Wysocki 55:24

Many are doing anything to improve. They just buy into it. What I did, I, I'll give you an example of this two. The one school that I spoke at one class, and there was two issues that were imperative. The first one I get in there, I'm sitting up and talking to'em. I always talk to the students in the front row, Hey man, how you doing? Blah, blah, blah. What year are your school? Senior? Awesome. What are you studying? Accounting. go, whoa. I was, because in Boston you take the trains a lot to bounce around. I go, I was on the trains this morning. I'm reading the newspaper and they say, we're, we're very short on CPAs. I go, you are gonna go in there, start off focus, become a CPA, certified public accountant for people they don't know. It's like the, it's like, you know the, the Cadillac or accountants, you're golden. He goes, accounting sucks. I'm not going in there. I'm like, and I know how much he pays because my friend's son went there$160,000 for four year education. Say what I majored in sucks and I'm not doing it. And it's just like, really? You could have shadowed somebody in freshman year or in high school. You could have actually worked part-time. You could have done an internship, you could have talked to five to 10 people in that field, or some that have left. There's some, I always talk about, there's so many steps and angles you can do before you make your decision and be that young man. I'm sure he is gonna do well. He's seemed bright, but he's behind the eight ball. And then at the end of the class, I'm speaking to the students, I go, hey, any questions? They're like, yeah, I got one for you. They educate us, tell us to network. What does that even mean? And then I have to bring myself back to remember, 18 to 22, world is school. They've no idea what the workforce Is. They have no idea what this wild turn networking really means. And the educ, the teachers are just going through the, you know, the phases and maybe the teachers have been in education their whole life too, so they have no idea networking are going to trade shows and building up the, and so a lot of these students are totally screwed. Nobody's doing a damn thing about it. So we got this bridge here, and on one side is the industry bitching and moaning about the students aren't prepared for the workforce. Education's like they're paying the bills. What more do we have to, they keep applying to the schools. What more do we have to teach? Even though some schools are going there, but schools have been

Caroline 57:45

Right.

Mike Wysocki 57:46

Darn at time. There's no bridge. There are, there are things out there that are bridging and all like that, like, you know, CTE and all like that, but it's the, it's minimal and nobody's taking this serious. And for some reason, myself and a handful of others I have, we're told that we're the ones that are supposed to go out and get the word out. And so we're doing it and I'm doing it through book speaking and just, you know, figuring out the steps and it's, uh, it's overwhelming. You know what I mean? I wish it was like, what was given to me was like, Hey, you know, go hang out with French Bulldogs all day and see if they can talk, you know? But. All, we all, we all, uh, torch. Was it torch the carrier or, uh, the.

Caroline 58:32

Yeah. Cross the bear torch. Torch to care. Yeah. But I, but I love that you're, that you're doing it. You're going out to, to get the information to the people who could be impacted at the most. I just hope that they listen, but what I love is that you can speak with people, not at them. See, that's the thing too. Education could be a business. And for a college and a community college, 40% only finish. Point is, the statistics are not good. I'll go back and look that up. But the statistics are not good for community colleges. The statistics aren't even good for regular colleges and regular, as far as like people that go in and they start with whatever major, do they finish with that major. They don't. And so then you're spending whatever, 15,000, if it's a state school up to 80 or a hundred thousand if it's not to two, trial and error. And there is a better way, like you're saying, find out what you're interested. Find out about some jobs, go shadow, have some conversations. Try before you buy. But when a college finds a student who wants to explore something else, that means they take longer to graduate. And so they're down for that because they get more money in the long run. Right.

Mike Wysocki 59:45

The thing about, you're right about a lot of statistics. So retention rates, uh, started bubbling up, it was, I was, it was'cause I spoke to a highend educator at Boston University. Boston University, retention rate's like 92%. And my joke in my next book is gonna be like, it would be higher so many students didn't go to the NHL because their, their college hockey team is, is amazing. So, I mean, they played two years, you get assigned with, the NHL. Right. Um, and speak. But other than that though, the school is career focused like a maniac. Right. spoken it's. and the community colleges is, should be where I should be hanging out. Uh, because the fact is I have spoken to, we'll quote, I call'em community colleges And I ask the students how many on LinkedIn? I'm lucky at 20, 25%, sometimes eyes glazed over.

Caroline 1:00:31

Hmm.

Mike Wysocki 1:00:32

My next joke is, uh, many on TikTok? And so it just shows you there is this big divide and the community college is right. The retention rates, I mean it, they are awful. And a lot of the state schools aren't that great there because the students go in there overwhelmed because they have no vision and no focus of what they wanna do. And this is the, this stat right here is the killer. Students, where do they get their career information from the family? 52% of'em get it from the family. If the family's on healthcare, what the hell do they know about cybersecurity, goose egg. And so that's it. So I push'em. And the other thing too is 12% of students are in career exploration classes, 12%. I'll give you an, can go to the examples to, I'm dead. This one school I got connected to from a friend of a friend and her friend works in there. I met years ago, blah, blah, blah. And we're talking and she goes over reach, talked to this person, blah, blah, blah. I did number response, you know, I, how many career? And they're a, um, average state school in New England. They have zero, zero career exploration classes. And the only thing they had the students was a career fair for two hours in a semester. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. But on the flip side though, I do see a lot of good out there. If I did, there's a school, it's called Middlesex Community College in Massachusetts. They have eight plus career exploration classes. you do find some information out there you gotta dig. Um, but you're right. For the average student going into school, little to nothing. There's no help.

Caroline 1:02:14

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, well I have enjoyed all of this, all of the story to get to know behind the story. I highly encourage people to read your book that's out to, uh, watch your YouTube channel. You've got lots of stuff on there as well to follow you, like, subscribe, all of the things. So where can people find you? And then I'll still have another, uh, another question to end it.

Mike Wysocki 1:02:41

Um, like my book and my website, it's Careers by the People. The other thing too is my name's, if you can see it in the corner, Mike Wysocki. I'm on LinkedIn and I'm the only one in Maui, so you, that's pretty easy to find on my YouTube channel. It's, believe it or not, it's at Careers by the People. So Go At Careers by People at the presently is 130 plus videos about career readiness. Uh, my next book, uh, the second book on the subject, uh, that goes, that is where the publishers are hopefully coming out in three or four months. that book, instead of I talk about, I don't talk about myself. I connect with college students throughout the country and ask them 30 plus questions of how they're preparing for the workforce and then also include 102 new careers by the people. They broke it into the CTE new 14 categories, career and technical education categories. So that's what I'm doing. I'm speaking around, I mean, I got a couple speaking gigs here and there, but an educator out there, I'd say reach out. You know, let's connect up, let's talk, let's figure some angles out, because my whole thought process is one of these states is gonna take me up on this and I'll be, you know,'cause I always get these messages huge in Arkansas or wherever. But being in Hawaii, I'd like to see what I can do my best to help here. But the West Coast, more than happy to help out, can jump on a metal bird and speak to, uh, a variety of schools, high schools, college, community, colleges, whatever's needed, organization. So I, I do my best just to try to get the word out and, uh, try to help people because what I see is, uh, not a joy. And I, um, you said earlier about researching, I, I wouldn't anybody to do this because of my resiliency and because of my thickheadedness, I can do this and I can take it. But a lot of people, this is, this is tough stuff. Uh, tech sales might have been boring or, but, dollar you get paid well and it, uh, but this is, uh, exciting and thrilling and it doesn't pay a damn a dime.

Caroline 1:04:38

But the impact. The impact, okay. So, and then I'm big on authentic success, and for a while you chased what the world said, right? You chase the, the money, you chase the things like that. But now how do you define authentic success for you in this moment?

Mike Wysocki 1:04:55

One of the things I wanted to score would be like being curriculum in a state and, um, that would be really like, cool success, getting the next book out. I gotta. I have a couple more. I just keep knocking off the books, uh, getting speaking gigs, and just trying to help help the school systems out with career readiness. You know, I wish they'd cut out their bureaucracy and listen to people that have been in the workforce, as well as the people who have been in education. So you put'em, put the two together and we can resolve this issue. It's, it's not overtly complicated, but bureaucracy makes it so complicated and so difficult to get anything done, and everybody loves to say no. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about this? No, no, no, no, no. You, these people wanna say yes, and there are people on the cutting edge, and I get some of the nicest messages, but the fact is, we have to resolve, this is a major issue in the States. I actually did an didn't, a podcast with a guy from the UK and it's the same thing. The UK it's the same damn thing. And I'm like, really? Why can't the, the educators can't solve it. And some of these organizations that are involved in, you know, helping education, they, they're not doing a damn thing either. I mean, I like, here's a good example. I, one of my questions is, you know, in the future occupation, have you shadowed? How many, you know, have you ever shadowed anybody? There's no statistics out there. Nobody's asked this question since the dawn of time. Are you serious? What the hell are these, uh, in institutions doing that are supposed to be helping education, improving education? What are they doing? Taking a bunch of cash and going to, you know, four seasons and eating a lot of steaks? I have no clue. But there's the oppor, there's issues out there, need to be resolved. Whatever I can do to help out, then I'm happy. You know, my dog, if I'm happy, my dog's happy, life's good, you know, living over here, you know, I mean, I don't have too many complaints, but I just, I got a result of this major issue and, you know, it's, there's only so much time left before I'm dead. So it's like, can I get in the right direction? I don't know. Or do I die? What happens? That's a good question. We'll find out.

Caroline 1:06:53

I, I think you, I think the story goes because it's not written yet. The story goes, people read your books. They're a resounding success. They impact millions upon millions of lives, and people actually start designing a life that they love, and their career allows them to have that life that they love all because of your part of the work and maybe a little bit of mine too. Let's make it that.

Mike Wysocki 1:07:15

Got it, Caroline. It's, I mean, much alo. I, I appreciate everything. You, you, you do amazing, amazing work. And I, I thoroughly appreciate the chance to get on and talk with you and hopefully have a lot of listens out there who are interested in career readiness. So again, thank you for all your time, your energy, your excitement, your knowledge uh, what you're doing for society. It's great stuff.

Caroline 1:07:37

I appreciate you as well, Mike. Thank you for all of this beautiful conversation. I can't wait to get it out there for people to be impacted.

1:07:45

Here's what I want you to take with you, career readiness becomes real when you get close to real work. Conversations create clarity. Exposure expands possibility. If you feel stuck or unsure, you get to ask better questions and you get to choose with intention. Mike's work is called Careers by the People, and you can find him at Careersbythepeople.com. I'll link it in the show notes. If this show helped you. Share it with someone standing at a turning point, a student, a parent, a friend, a colleague. One conversation can change a trajectory. Thanks for listening to your next success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.