0:03

You could be talented, reliable, and respected, and still stay stuck when promotions keep slipping through your hands. The real issue is often invisible. This episode brings the unspoken signals into the light so you can move with clarity and confidence. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give the Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. Keith Anderson is an ExMeta and DoorDash leader who helps tech professionals get promoted, make bold moves, and lead with AI strategy. He's hired over a hundred people and has seen exactly what separates those who move up from those who stay stuck. Now through his company career Alchemy Lab, Keith helps ambitious professionals position themselves as the obvious choice for advancement, whether that's within their current company or in a senior role somewhere new. He's also the author of the 30 Day Career Reboot: A Practical Guide to Rebuilding Confidence and Career Momentum. There is a particular kind of frustration that can quietly change how you see yourself. You're doing the work you're delivering, you're the person people count on. You hear the praise, and you believe it because it matches what you know is true about you. And then you hit the ceiling. You are great, but, we need to see more presence. You should advocate for yourself maybe next cycle. Vague feedback creates fog, fog creates second guessing, and over time a high performer can start shrinking their own expectation of what's possible. This conversation with Keith Anderson is for the person who knows that they have more to give and wants to move up without becoming someone they don't respect. Keith breaks down what leaders are actually responding to when they decide who is safe to elevate. You'll hear why promotions are often decided long before the formal conversation happens and how you can start sending the right signals with calm authority if you've been waiting for the system to finally notice you. This episode helps you shift from hoping to leading.

Caroline 3:09

Welcome Keith, to Your Next Success. I am thrilled to be having this conversation with you.

Keith Anderson 3:16

Thank you, Caroline. Me too. it'll be a great conversation today. Can't wait.

Caroline 3:20

Awesome. Awesome. Okay. So you know, and I know you, you and I share a lot of commonalities and the types of things that we want to help serve people with, and we're gonna totally get into that, and all of the amazing ways that you help people through career transitions and people who wanna be able to be leaders, to be able to become leaders through your beautiful, supportive community and all your wisdom and things, how you help people. We'll get to that. And let's start way, way, way back. Like, tell me about childhood, like the littlest Keith. What did he love to do? Where did you grow up? What was that like for you?

Keith Anderson 3:58

Yeah. Oh, I love going down memory lane.

Caroline 4:02

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 4:02

So for me, I grew up, um, in a small town on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. Um, yeah, so like right on the water. Um, but didn't appreciate it as much until I left and then came back, you know? Um, but uh, growing up, uh, early on, um, you know, how kids used to play, um, I don't know, uh, firefighter or policeman type of games. For me, I played like being a teacher.

Caroline 4:32

Oh, yes.

Keith Anderson 4:33

With my friends.

Caroline 4:34

No, I did that too. I tried to like, they were all my students and I was in charge and I tried and if, if friends didn't wanna play, I made my stuffed animals do it. They were all good students anyway.

Keith Anderson 4:46

I, I did the same thing.

Caroline 4:47

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 4:48

So I knew early on, like I had that inclination to become a teacher. Right. And, um, you know, I had that desire all through middle school or elementary to high school. I went to college, I got a degree in linguistics, and then went into teaching after that.

Caroline 5:07

Okay. I wanna dial it back a little bit too.

Keith Anderson 5:09

Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I know

Caroline 5:12

No, that's fine. That's fine. That's fine. It's fine. Okay. So young, did you have siblings at all?

Keith Anderson 5:19

No, no. So I'm an only child.

Caroline 5:21

Awesome. And what about, um, sometimes people end up kind of doing things that generationally as careers people in their family have done. Like what, what about your parents? What kind of jobs did they have and what was your vision of what you thought success was? From little Keith perspective?

Keith Anderson 5:43

Yeah. You know, that's a, that's a really interesting question. I haven't thought much about it,

Caroline 5:48

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 5:49

in that way. So my parents were working class, um, you know, they were postal inspectors,

Caroline 5:55

Oh wow. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 5:57

In, new England. And, you know, they weren't in education at all. That being said, um, both my parents had master got master's degrees and, um, you know, I remember growing up, my mom always, uh. would ask me about education would, uh, you know, really focus on how my grades are, what I'm doing, how I'm growing. And I think that that was also part of the reason why I felt like moving into education was like the next path, right?

Caroline 6:31

mm-hmm.

Keith Anderson 6:31

I had, it had been so ingrained in me,

Caroline 6:35

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 6:35

as a early age, right, that your education, having freedom to study and do things that just interest you, not feel bogged down by society or what other people say. That was just always had been a part of my childhood. Both, both in nature and nurture. I tend

Caroline 6:53

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 6:53

be very much an independent person and creative person on my own too. But my environment also helped me, um, be that as well too.

Caroline 7:03

Yeah, just like supporting your curiosity and your learning and, and kind of the importance of doing as well as you can. Now, what about,

Keith Anderson 7:11

Yeah.

Caroline 7:12

did you have a dream? Like did you think like, success means I have to get a master's degree or, yeah.

Keith Anderson 7:21

For me it was, uh, early on it was getting a PhD. Um, you know, and I, and I would say like, didn't realize PhD when I was in elementary school, but I wanted to be like a lifelong learner and lifelong educator. I kind of had that sense when I was even in elementary school. But then in high school I did plan to get a PhD and I did consider becoming a professor,

Caroline 7:51

Wow. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 7:52

fledged professor. I did teach in university, but that's. So I kind of started down that path, but decided to pivot. But um, yeah, that had always been something that had been top of mind for me when I went into college and, um, you know, moved, moved in my career. But, you know, things changed,

Caroline 8:14

Absolutely.

Keith Anderson 8:15

are,

Caroline 8:15

If we evolve in our in, yeah.

Keith Anderson 8:18

Yeah, exactly.

Caroline 8:19

What about outside of like the structured kind of school environment? What sorts of things were really interested in? You know, were you interested in and fascinated by, like activity wise or out of school wise? What? What lit you up?

Keith Anderson 8:34

Yeah. So I used to, uh, do a lot of theater and that

Caroline 8:38

Oh.

Keith Anderson 8:39

lit me up. I was in over 50 plays when I was in middle school and high school. Um, and then in college as well too. Um, so yeah, doing theater has always been a big, always had been a big part of my life. But then,

Caroline 8:57

Yeah,

Keith Anderson 8:58

we, we changed. So I haven't done theater since, uh, graduate school, but, um, you know, it's, uh, I, I, I've had, that has been my creative outlet

Caroline 9:09

yeah,

Keith Anderson 9:10

I'm able to really embody another character, um, and explore what life is like from a different perspective, which I'm all just, I think part of a through line in my life has always been curiosity on. Sorry, curiosity in the unknown.

Caroline 9:27

yeah. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 9:27

And in, um, in the unknown, meaning, uh, learning about different cultures, different people, how, the, you know, how the world works. Um, so theater was a way for me to do that early on. And then I went to college in, at the University of Hawaii, which is like the

Caroline 9:50

Like,

Keith Anderson 9:51

away.

Caroline 9:51

were you just like, I'm gonna get the heck outta Dodge. Let me, how far can I possibly go? Because I was like, that was, I mean, that's people's dream. I haven't even, I've never yet been to Hawaii and I want to go,

Keith Anderson 10:06

go.

Caroline 10:07

you know? Um,

Keith Anderson 10:08

yeah. You

Caroline 10:09

yeah.

Keith Anderson 10:10

a, a great place. Um, so I, I liked where I grew up on Cape Cod. Right. But it's very, uh, very white, right? Very, uh. Very homogenous. Right. That being said, very accepting of different people. Right. Uh, you know, so it wasn't, well, it was very, it, it was very kind of its own culture and. I, well, I really liked it. I wanted, uh, something different. I wanted to explore the world,

Caroline 10:46

Mm.

Keith Anderson 10:47

get to know people from different places, learn new things. Hence why I decided to move to Hawaii, because I, you know, when you grow up in a place where everyone is very similar to you,

Caroline 11:00

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 11:01

you know, you don't know what it's

Caroline 11:04

Right.

Keith Anderson 11:05

people, no one is not, or people aren't similar to you,

Caroline 11:08

Absolutely.

Keith Anderson 11:08

you know? So it was, uh, definitely eye-opening and, um. Difficult adjustment, but, uh, an adjustment that I'm glad that I made to move to Hawaii. where, you know, I was studying linguistics where, you know, I was studying Russian, Chinese, Mandarin, uh, Korean, Spanish and German. Um, and then, you know, linguistics is this scientific study of language as well Um, and you know, with that it's just like the whole environment. There is just a melting pot of people from either their local and their ancestors came from China, Japan, Korea, Micronesia, all of that, or they literally came over their first generation. So I, it was great. Um. In some ways, I dunno how to say this. Humbling I guess that I was, um, I was a minority by far. Right. Um, I, you know, and it was just an experience that really shaped my life to what, what and who I am today.

Caroline 12:18

Yeah. Now, had you ever visited there before, or you just picked it because of a cool looking pamphlet and, uh. Got in and and your parents were like, sure, Keith. Absolutely.

Keith Anderson 12:33

Yeah, I mean, it, it's funny. Well, yeah, it did start with a pamphlet,

Caroline 12:38

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 12:38

like doing research online, um, you know, this the early days, the internet, so there's just very little. But, um, yeah, I did go with my dad for like three days. Uh, we did a, just a really quick, um, over a long plane

Caroline 12:57

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 12:58

and, um, you know, got a little bit of the feel. But then, you know, I was between University of Hawaii, um, in, uh, on, uh, in Oahu, right? Or Honolulu. And then I was looking at another, uh, one of the University of Hawaii campuses on the big island, and then a few universities in Massachusetts. But it, for what I was looking for, hands down, like

Caroline 13:24

That's awesome.

Keith Anderson 13:25

it was what the direction that I needed to go, so.

Caroline 13:28

Wow. Wow. I have a kid. Uh, um, yeah, I, yeah, college move in from a plane would be very interesting and yeah. But, um,

Keith Anderson 13:38

Yeah. Well, my parents didn't come with me, um, to move in, or, you know, and they never came to visit me. They're a bit older, right. So I was just on my own there, um, from 18 to, I lived there for about seven years.

Caroline 13:56

Wow. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. All right, so when you got your first kind of like job, what was that and where was it?

Keith Anderson 14:07

well my first job, I, so I had been working ever since I was 14,

Caroline 14:13

Oh, wow.

Keith Anderson 14:14

at a pizza place and I worked at Dunkin’ Donuts, um, a gym. And then when I was, that was in

Caroline 14:21

To combat the donuts, like

Keith Anderson 14:24

god.

Caroline 14:24

pizza and donuts, and then it was like, whoa, I need to work somewhere better. Let me do the gym.

Keith Anderson 14:30

right? I'm like, oh, this isn't a sustainable life, you know? Um, didn't wanna get too fat, so I needed to work out, get a free membership.

Caroline 14:39

That's awesome.

Keith Anderson 14:41

yeah. And then when I was in Hawaii to pay bills, like I, I worked at a restaurant out there, so I, those are my first jobs that I had. So a lot of, I guess, working class type of type of roles. My first, uh, professional role in education was in education and teaching, and I was teaching at a high school Honolulu. Um, and I was young. I was 21 years old. And, um, I teaching high school Spanish and English and, uh, I don't know, it was just funny. I, I was like, guys, we're all adults. We're all adults here. And they like completely steamrolled me and, you know.

Caroline 15:23

Right.

Keith Anderson 15:24

I needed that experience though, I think to like get the realities of what teaching education was like both in K through 12 and then later in teaching college. So yeah.

Caroline 15:34

Yeah. So how did you transition from that and Yeah, and, and, yeah. I thought I wanted to be a teacher as well. Um. Because my dad was a teacher, principal, and a superintendent. So like I was, yeah, when I was really little, he was going to school to get his PhD and also working. So it's like I saw this, you know, work hard, play hard kind of thing and being immersed and like always like waiting for my dad for whatever, whatever had he had going on because he totally was immersed in whatever school he was in and being there for all of the extracurriculars and all of the things. And so then that meant that I was there. So either I got involved in extracurriculars and things, but either way I still ended up kind of like spending a lot of time, um, in his office. And I saw a lot of the inner workings of how it was, and I just kind of thought like, yeah, I think I want to do that. And he cautioned me like, girl, I don't think teaching is gonna be, uh, is gonna support the lifestyle I think you want to be accustomed to. And I was like,

Keith Anderson 16:41

Oh,

Caroline 16:42

What, what do you, what do you say? You know? Um, and so he, he also said, you know, you don't have to be an educator to educate. There are plenty of people in companies that also are helping people learn and teach them along. And I really feel strongly that your path is outside of a school, so why don't you consider that? So it, I was a little bit bummed and especially like as an RA in college and things, seeing kids on the floor who were in education making, like their, their final projects were like poster boards with macaroni. And I'm like, I wanna be gluing macaroni. Like for real. Like, you know. But anyway, um. I try to make bulletin boards for my, the people on my floor, and that was like my inner, you know, letting out my inner teacher. But it's so much more than bulletin boards. I get it. But, um, yeah, then seeing my own own kids, like high school kids are a different breed of human because they are becoming independent and finding their voice and intelligence and emotional intelligence may not be equal. So sometimes, well, oftentimes teachers are not being treated with the utmost of appreciation and respect. So

Keith Anderson 18:00

Yeah.

Caroline 18:01

was that? Yeah. Was that your experience or is this like, you're so young, you're what? What, yeah.

Keith Anderson 18:07

oh yeah. I mean it was, it was a rude awakening. And you know, it's interesting going back to, to your story and what you just shared, um, it sounds like your father was very wise, right? He knew his direction, maybe in his generation when he was doing work, but you know, he support

Caroline 18:28

Yep.

Keith Anderson 18:28

something that was related, but maybe would fit more your generation and what you were trying to do. And I think similar to what you just said, I moved down that direction as you just said

Caroline 18:39

Yes.

Keith Anderson 18:40

corporate learning and development. But it took me time to realize that it's great that you had a father who was. Was wise in those ways.

Caroline 18:50

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 18:51

To, um, to, to guide you in that way. So I, I, I just wanted to say that, that sounds really, um, wonderful to have that kind of mentorship from your father, you

Caroline 19:02

To try. Of course I didn't listen in fully. Right. And I didn't, I, I, you know. Yeah. But that's, it's still that. I think that's just part of the thing is like, if you hear it from somebody else, it's like, oh, great idea. You hear it from your parents who mean the utmost for you. It's just like, what? Okay.

Keith Anderson 19:19

I know.

Caroline 19:20

You know?

Keith Anderson 19:20

I

Caroline 19:20

So,

Keith Anderson 19:21

Dad,

Caroline 19:22

yeah. Exactly. What are you talking about? I know everything. Um, and I'm experiencing.

Keith Anderson 19:27

we become just like them,

Caroline 19:29

For I? Yes, I think so. I think we take the good, the, you know, we take the, the, the best parts to try to pass on, um, and the other parts to work on. So, um,

Keith Anderson 19:39

Exactly.

Caroline 19:41

okay. So how did you then move from the high school teacher to your next thing? Did the university teaching come right after that, or was there a step in between?

Keith Anderson 19:54

Yeah. So, um, like I said, when I was a kid, I knew that I wanted to be a teacher. I went to school, I got a degree in linguistics, not education, but still knew that I wanted to go into teaching. So, you know, I had these bold visions of helping the next generation become, uh, really become strong critical thinkers and

Caroline 20:19

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 20:19

learn more about themselves and the society to the world become better. I don't know, something like

Caroline 20:26

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 20:27

Then I got in there and Hawaii, I was teaching at a Hawaii public school, and it's one of the, uh, I think it's. 49th or something of, yeah. Like, uh, one of the lowest in, uh, public education, right. Um, in terms of pass rates and, other things. At that time, I don't remember the exact statistic, but there, the education system was very, uh, needed work anyway, so I go in, you know, all excited and realize that a lot of the students didn't care. They don't want to be there,

Caroline 21:05

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 21:06

They felt forced to be there. And then, um, the parents, right? They, a lot of them were just ambivalent and they didn't really care what they were doing or what we were doing, and any issues or problems that we had, they just, you know, it. So it's just very demotivating and it just made me realize maybe this isn't what

Caroline 21:30

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 21:30

I want to do anymore. But, know, we. I, you know, I spoke with my friends and my family and even professors that I, that I had in college, and what they encouraged me is they said, well, you know, maybe teaching high school just isn't the best fit for you, but maybe it's, it's teaching something else. So, um, you know, why don't you consider college right? And look

Caroline 21:58

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 21:58

teaching the university, right? So, long story short, I taught in Hawaii for a few years, uh, but applied to graduate school in San Francisco and, um. Uh, made it to a master's program there in applied linguistics with a focus

Caroline 22:19

Oh.

Keith Anderson 22:19

education. Um, and did that and then started working a few years after I finished my master's teaching, um, undergraduate, uh, English rhetoric classes, composition and then graduate classes, um, in, uh, art and design and, uh, languages, what have you. So, um, that, that, that's kind of the next path that I took in the education field. Um, but with that, the, I, you know, I didn't have to deal with parents anymore. I did have to deal with some ambivalent students who didn't care so much about the classes, but I felt like the, the, institutional issues that I had in high school were still there, um, in just slightly different ways. Like masqueraded, it was a little bit different, but it kind of ended up being the same, if that makes

Caroline 23:20

Yeah, yeah,

Keith Anderson 23:21

Um, you know, so basically this whole dream of what I imagined being a teacher was and them being a lecturer, uh, it just ended up being not what I thought it was. Um, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed enough,

Caroline 23:42

Absolutely.

Keith Anderson 23:42

I was doing. I wasn't misereable but, um, I knew that it wasn't a path that I could do forever. But then I didn't know what else I could do. I felt like Keith equals teacher, and that was my whole identity.

Caroline 23:57

ah,

Keith Anderson 23:57

what,

Caroline 23:58

now what do I do?

Keith Anderson 23:59

are you,

Caroline 24:00

Yeah. And yet it's also important that you're kind of like recognizing some of these symptoms and patterns and how it's feeling to be in that position that you thought you wanted. But then from the inside lens, you know, that perspective becomes a little different. I also wanna do one quick point on the, the parents of high schoolers, because I have a very different perspective of this now that I've had two of my own. And I wonder, I just wonder because like when my kids have had something like in elementary school and middle school. Elementary school, more so I was, I was there a lot. I was volunteering, I was very, very involved. 'cause it was again, my inner dream of can I help with your bulletin boards and whatever's going on, and plan the name tags and the field trips anyway, whatever. But when they got to high school and they started having some challenges with different teachers and classes, they told me, do not reply. Don't reply, don't engage, because they wanted to handle it on their own. And so that gave me a different perspective because I had thought right as well, like, oh, these kids, their parents must not care. And behind some children, there are absolutely parents who 100% care and are rooting from the, you know, from the, the home team, you know, bench. And have been asked not to participate and play. And so in that weird thing of trying to help your kids grow up and become, it's like, okay, well really well, why aren't you doing this homework? Well, I think this homework is complete busy work and it's less than 10% of my grade. I already have a 100. I turn in some of them. And then when it becomes so much busy work that it's taking, um, over my ability to enjoy my life, have fun, or do the work for other classes that are harder, I don't see why I need to do it. If I'm getting a hundred on the test, why did I need to do that homework? And so I was like, oh, and meanwhile the teacher is sending multiple notes, right? Your kid isn't turning their homework. Please help. I'd like for you to talk with you. And I'm like, my kid's saying don't talk with them. And so like I'm just saying,

Keith Anderson 26:14

Yeah.

Caroline 26:14

whole new, may not have been the case, but there might have been some that care that just can't. Can't share for that supporting independence. Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Keith Anderson 27:04

Oh, totally. I think that's a really good call out. Right. Um, and you know, it's interesting, uh, you know, it's funny now that I'm saying this, I was, uh, I'm a very independent person and I was when I was in high school,

Caroline 27:17

Right,

Keith Anderson 27:18

just because I taught high school doesn't mean that I was like the perfect student. I mean, I was very similar to what you're talking about, where I didn't everything in.

Caroline 27:28

right. And so my, yeah, and I'm just like, okay. Right. but they're great humans, so.

Keith Anderson 27:34

yeah, yeah. And, and I think like, at least like from what I experienced in, um, what I mean, and, and not, wasn't so much around those small things like homework type of things or even like the parents like, oh, they're really not doing well. It was more like, um, behavioral things, right? Where it was out of control where we needed to call the police and

Caroline 28:02

Wow. Wow. That's different. That's next level. That's next level. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's next level. Okay. And but also though, I just wonder because of like the environment, if that, um, school was rated so poorly, maybe there were just so many other things, like in the whole hierarchy of needs that those students needed, they weren't able to get to that learning loving thing. So, yeah.

Keith Anderson 28:29

Yeah, I, I mean, totally. I think it, to be honest, I think it's like a very different ball game there, um, with students. You're right. Like if you think about the hierarchy of needs, I, you know, I, I wonder, I, it's been more than 20 years now,

Caroline 28:47

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 28:48

um, you know, it's, uh, yeah, it was a different experience. But I mean, I, I was fresh out of college and they hired me and, you know, it's, I think that happens to a lot of teachers then and now, you know, where, uh, you know, there's a teacher shortage and

Caroline 29:07

Yep.

Keith Anderson 29:07

new teachers tend to be thrown into, uh, you know, difficult schools a lot of times. And I, I was, I was one of

Caroline 29:14

Yeah, yeah.

Keith Anderson 29:15

yeah.

Caroline 29:16

Okay. And you followed your own inner knowing of, okay, there's gotta be more than this. So you go and you get your master's degree stateside, and you, um. Then. And then what? And then, and then you're teaching and then, and then what, because you're starting to feel this like, Ooh, maybe this isn't it for me. And you're wondering, what do you do? Because you had this identity of being a teacher. Um, then how did, what did you flip into, you know?

Keith Anderson 29:44

Yeah. I mean there were a lot of, um, things that I notice that I had grown out of, um, with teaching, for example, the pay was,

Caroline 29:55

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 29:55

was earning 27,000 a year. Um, you know, I, I was a lecturer also where I had to bid for classes each semester. Nothing was guaranteed, you know, it was no job stability, also career growth. I mean, yeah, I could teach other classes, but like, I would basically be doing the same thing for 20, 30 years until they retired.

Caroline 30:20

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 30:20

I saw some of colleagues there who had been there for a while and they were miserable.

Caroline 30:26

Oh yeah.

Keith Anderson 30:27

you know, writing's on the wall. I don't want to do this anymore. But I had a breaking point or a, you know, a, a point where I said, enough is enough, instead of just continuing to put up with it.

Caroline 30:41

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 30:41

I, um, so I got into a car accident

Caroline 30:45

Oh

Keith Anderson 30:45

uh, I, I was riding a scooter or a moped, a car hidden to me. I was in the hospital, um, I was in the hospital. I called the university and I told them, Hey, I can't come in teach my class. I don't know when I'll be able to come back because of the accident. And they basically gaslit me. They were like, oh, well then who's going to teach your class today? Who's gonna do it the rest of the week? And then who's going to grade their essays and their, um, their final, final exam. Right.

Caroline 31:18

And you're like.

Keith Anderson 31:18

don't.

Caroline 31:19

I'm in the hospital. Where is the compassion?

Keith Anderson 31:23

right. And I'm

Caroline 31:25

Oh man.

Keith Anderson 31:26

that's the HR of the university, right? And I'm like, this, I'm, you know, bye. I'm not doing

Caroline 31:33

Yeah, yeah,

Keith Anderson 31:34

anymore. So I, it took me some time, but I finally left. I, uh, I, there's a lot of internal blocks, honestly, um,

Caroline 31:45

yeah,

Keith Anderson 31:45

had to sort through to realize that I'm more than just being a teacher, even though it's something that since early on in life, I knew that I wanted to be, but I had really go within to really understand more about myself, what my motivations were for going into teaching, and then seeing what are different paths that could fit for me

Caroline 32:07

yeah.

Keith Anderson 32:08

that identity wasn't something I wanted to be known for anymore.

Caroline 32:11

Did you do that work on your own, or was there someone who was a trusted person that helped you in that phase?

Keith Anderson 32:18

Yeah. You know, it's. It's interesting. So at that point I was teaching at, um, an art, uh, and design university in San Francisco Academy of Art University. And, um, one of the perks there, uh, was we could take one, uh, one course a semester, right? So I started doing that. So I was exploring myself, uh, just different avenues in the art and design space to see what I was interested in. Um, in terms of having like a coach or a guide to do this, I didn't so much, I did go to, uh, see a career coach, but, um, you know, one a bit later on. And once I knew and decided that I wanted to move into the tech industry, she. it's basically like, no, you don't have the type of background that they're looking for. They're looking for people from Harvard, Columbia, all of that. And it would just be really hard for you. I was like, okay, I'm

Caroline 33:22

Yeah, you're not supporting me.

Keith Anderson 33:24

there.

Caroline 33:25

not helping me get the dream that I want. And you're kind of a nay saying bye.

Keith Anderson 33:30

Ex. Exactly. I'm like, not a coach. You're a Yeah. A

Caroline 33:35

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 33:35

not a

Caroline 33:36

You're a de-motivator.

Keith Anderson 33:38

yeah, I know,

Caroline 33:40

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 33:41

um, anyway, I did a lot of exploration, more on my own through taking classes and then just going to events, like networking

Caroline 33:49

Nice,

Keith Anderson 33:50

where I just met

Caroline 33:51

nice. Yes.

Keith Anderson 33:53

doing very different things and I just was curious and wanted to learn about their life. Right. And what they're doing if they liked it, what? How would a new person with my background get into something like that? Even if I wasn't directly interested in what

Caroline 34:08

It's just the point.

Keith Anderson 34:09

to know.

Caroline 34:10

I wanna, I wanna pause on this. This is how you do it, folks. You become very interested in what other humans are doing. You start having conversations, you develop real relationships, and that then opens up more opportunities for you and for your career outside of what you've ever seen possible. So

Keith Anderson 34:33

Right.

Caroline 34:34

Either you need to find a career coach of someone who's been through it, and if you need to have examples, there's one, two, raise your hand, Keith. Two. Two people here who've gone through different things who understand and want to help you. And even as part of that, you need to put yourself out there and you don't have to have it all figured out. You just have to start asking questions when you are authentic and exploring and being curious about other people and their journeys. That comes back to you in ways you can't even imagine. But you have to first put yourself and realize, like you don't have to have it all figured out. And the reality is no one has it all figured out, so

Keith Anderson 35:21

Right.

Caroline 35:22

love it. Love it. Yes.

Keith Anderson 35:24

and, and I would say too, on top of that, in my journey, and also with clients that I work with, it's like, don’t go in there with a transaction mindset of like, oh, can you get me a job? Or, oh, can you

Caroline 35:38

Right?

Keith Anderson 35:38

me to people? Just go into, want to learn more about them and also just see how you can support them and help them and you

Caroline 35:46

Yes,

Keith Anderson 35:47

work together, but not going in with an agenda, which I know for job seekers can be hard because you want a job.

Caroline 35:55

Absolutely. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 35:56

Things are work more organically than just so, like, than doing things so concrete like that. Right. Because the world doesn't work in transactions. It works through stories. It works through building,

Caroline 36:12

C connection. Yes. And, and you're planting seeds, planting, planting, planting seeds and watering them. And just like whether you're growing a, um, grass or you're growing a flower, or you're growing a mango tree, each seed is gonna take different amounts of time between planting and harvest. And the reality is, if you're trying to grow yourself and in your career, you don't want all of them that come back in the next day or two. There are some that you nurture over time. You keep that connection and great things do happen if you're showing up differently, right? Those ones that go to networking events. And definitely, I want a job. I need a job, and here's my background and can you help me with a job? And you're like, I don't know who the heck you are, uh, person versus the other one that's like, Hey, is it my first time here? Uh.

Keith Anderson 37:02

yeah,

Caroline 37:03

really sure what to ask, but I'd love to know what brought you to, to this meeting or what brought you to this event and just being curious. So yeah. Okay. So you go to these networking things and you start exploring and being very curious about other people and what might it look like for someone like you and then what happens from that?

Keith Anderson 37:22

Yeah.

Caroline 37:22

Not transactional, not that one meeting, but you know, over time. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 37:25

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For, for sure. So, um, well first of course, and obviously I started learning more just about different, the different roles and different areas within a corporate setting that I had no idea about that we don't, that I didn't know from being a lecturer or a

Caroline 37:46

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 37:47

So, you know, I learned about operations and strategy and marketing and all these things, right? Um, so that was great, right? That also helped me build confidence in just at a high level how companies work in like larger corporations, right? So that was the first thing that helped me build my general overall confidence when I had these conversations after a lot of those just, want to get to know you

Caroline 38:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 38:19

Um, and then what I did notice is that, um, and what I was doing during those conversations was also just, yes, like listening intently and just going in with curiosity, but really just seeing how I'm feeling about what they're saying and whether I see myself wanting to,

Caroline 38:40

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 38:41

I just had some attraction to like what they were saying or what they were doing, or it's like, oh, great to know information, but,

Caroline 38:49

yeah.

Keith Anderson 38:49

maybe not. So, uh, from there I was, was really drawn to the design space, in particular the UX space, um, and the design. And I met someone who's an instructional designer. I said, oh, that seems like a perfect fit, right? With my background and, focusing more on the design side, um, and more the creative side of things. So I, uh, you know, I explored that a bit more and I started going to instructional design specific events, reached out to people on LinkedIn. Similarly though, just to hear their story, how they got into it, path they took, when they started, all of that. And that again, helped me build more confidence and just kind of understand more of what the landscape was. Um, but keep in mind, this was all while I was transitioning, so I wasn't like, I, I was, I, I needed more information in order to know how I could position myself and make myself really stand out to potential employers when I'd never worked in corporate before.

Caroline 39:59

yeah, yeah. But you're, it's like, it's kind of back to the theater thing a little bit, and you're learning about the characters and you're learning about the roles available and you're learning about how you can best show up to land that role. Honestly, you know?

Keith Anderson 40:12

yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the same thing. Excuse me. It's the same thing if you think about it, um, where. when you are studying for a role that you're playing, you do a lot of research on the characters. You watch TV shows that they were in or um, you

Caroline 40:30

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 40:31

that they were in and you see their mannerisms. Or if you don't have that, you look at people who are similar, right? How they walk, how they talk, what their priorities are, all of that. And you start embodying those, not to copy necessarily, but to embrace that, to see how you can make something your

Caroline 40:49

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 40:50

you know, in this case, like a hybrid version where I'm embodying a lot of those things, but also doing it in my own way. Because see, I don't want to be a copycat a

Caroline 41:01

Right, right, right, right. It's data, it's foundational data. Yeah. Like what's your, what's the starting line and how can you enhance, okay, so then you have this whirlwinds of careers and many well-known places. Uh, tell a little bit about, about those experiences.

Keith Anderson 41:22

Yeah. So, um, I, so long story short, I did transition into design, instructional design, and then later on program management and leadership in, uh, large tech companies in the Bay Area, right? I became a product to the Bay

Caroline 41:38

Yeah. Great area to be.

Keith Anderson 41:40

at.

Caroline 41:40

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 41:41

Yeah, especially in the tech industry, which is where I finally figured out that I wanted to move into. And my first role outside of education was at Google, um, as a developer and designer. And then I moved into other companies, including, well, YouTube, I, I moved from the Google side to YouTube side. It's owned by Alphabet. So that was an easy transition. And also worked at Uber, um, Meta, DoorDash, um, a few startups, um, all within a eight year period. And I felt like that education piece was like one, like the first piece of my career, right? And then at that point I was in this second phase of my career, um, really still taking what I learned and growing from my first phase, but bringing it into a new context new area in the corporate space, which is very different, but still, I leaned on those skills that I developed and been interested in ever since an early age. So,

Caroline 42:44

And you saw a lot about how people get positioned for new positions, for new roles and like, you know, who got it, who didn't get it, while you're also helping, you know, level up their internal learning. And then what happened because you had a lot of great experiences on your own and, and then what did you try to fashion them into, or, yeah. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 43:08

yeah, yeah. So, um, so well starting out, one very big difference between, um, higher ed and corporate is in higher ed in teaching, you're doing everything. Right? There's so many responsibilities you have, but once you move into corporate, you become, uh, more of a specialist in whatever you're doing. Um, one thing that I loved in teaching was mentoring and working with people who are at previous stages, um, in, whatever I was

Caroline 43:41

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 43:42

an expert in and guiding them to be where I went, where I was at the time. Um, and that in a corporate setting led towards my interest in becoming a leader, right? And what happened to me at Google and YouTube and Uber was. I was trying to position myself to be promoted into like a manager role or a lead role. Um, and I was always told, um, by my manager and even, uh, other managers like, wow, you're so great at what you're doing, you're really great, you know, thank you. So amazing. But then when push came to shove, when it came to the calibration rooms, uh, when they are considering promotions, I would always hear, oh, you're great. But,

Caroline 44:30

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 44:30

Right. Um, or you need, you need to have more presence. You need, you need to have more, um, like you need to advocate for yourself more. All of these really vague things I'm like. What really are you saying? What's really going on here? Because you're in one thing with my manager during one-on-ones or with other leaders on the same level as 'em, but then it's not going through and I'm hearing honestly like these vague bs. Uh, you

Caroline 45:03

yeah. Yeah.

Keith Anderson 45:05

things I'm like, I can't action on this and I know who I am and what value I have brought in higher ed that I can bring here in terms of mentoring, guiding, and leading, um, and shaping an example for a team. But that didn't translate until I started to dig into a bit of the psychology and sociology of like, what's really going

Caroline 45:31

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 45:31

here? And what I realized it is. It starts with how it starts with me, but it's actually a lot more about how they perceive me and what signals I'm putting out there to signal that I'm ready to signal that I am someone they can trust

Caroline 45:50

Yep.

Keith Anderson 45:51

put into that next level and someone that they feel is safe enough to put in that next level where like they're not risking their

Caroline 45:58

Correct?

Keith Anderson 45:58

Right.

Caroline 45:59

Yes.

Keith Anderson 46:00

you know,

Caroline 46:00

Yes.

Keith Anderson 46:01

just a very different mindset. Once I learned that and

Caroline 46:06

I,

Keith Anderson 46:06

really embraced that and did that, I then moved from lead to manager, director, vp, um, fairly quickly within just a few years. So, um, yeah. And

Caroline 46:18

yeah.

Keith Anderson 46:18

help people do the same thing because no one taught me this. No one teaches this at all, really. And I think it's something that's so valuable for people who know internally that they are like a natural leader, right? It's kind

Caroline 46:33

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 46:34

a core piece of their personality, but they just don't know how to translate that. it subconsciously in, in a lot of ways, right? Besides just like these obvious, like speak more during meetings. Like, don't say this, say this, right? There's like a deeper layer there that, um, you need to get to know that no one really teaches. So now I teach and guide people on how to do that to land promotions or higher level roles from where they currently are on average within next promotion cycle. Or for people who are moving, like from manager to director, director from vp, then about six months because the hiring for leadership roles is a bit higher.

Caroline 47:16

Yeah.

Keith Anderson 47:16

um, that's essentially what I do now. Um, yeah,

Caroline 47:21

Which is awesome. So Yeah, no, it's, I love it. I love it because you, you went through, you know. Our clients are us a few years before, right? And you went through these experiences and noted so many things about them, and you've now decided to be the one who helps with that unmet need. Uh, and I saw so many people unfulfilled, yet very externally successful. And I was like, what in the world? How is it? And I was even one of those people before. And so it's like, how is it that this is a recurring theme? And I was like, man, God, why, why do you keep doing this? And it was like, ha. That's why you're here. And I was like, oh, I guess it's for me to help with. And so for you to keep seeing, you knew internally you had developed these not only this desire that's put on your heart of like, yeah, I wanna do that. I wanna be leading, I wanna be in this thing. I wanna share and help educate and bring the next, you know, generation along. But then to be getting blocked by things that were out of your control and not knowing what they were. Then finally, honing in on that, unlocking your own next success and steps into that, and now unlocking that for so, so many other people. Okay.

Keith Anderson 48:42

Yeah.

Caroline 48:43

How do people find you? How do people work with you? Because you've got so much wisdom and great things to share.

Keith Anderson 48:52

Yeah. Thank you. Um, well. First of all, before I share that, I just wanna say like a common theme in my discovery of myself and how I became who I am, not just in my career, but in life, is really taking things that were unconscious or subconscious for me and bringing that into the consciousness.

Caroline 49:11

Hmm.

Keith Anderson 49:12

that that is really the point of evolution and growth for all of us. Um, so anyway, if you know what I, what I talked about, um, about kinda really moving into this next level of your leadership role, um, if that seems like someone, if that seems like something that you're looking to do, but have been blocked and just have been getting that, you're great but answer, I would love to invite you to my, uh, my free but uh, selective community where there's like a small application on the website, um, to see if it's a good fit. And that community link is at, um, www.careeralchemylab.com/leader. Um, so yeah, and in the community you'll meet other like-minded folks. We have biweekly calls where you can get to know me and them and see how we can support each other in growth in this next level. And then there's also an opportunity if you join this two schedule one-on-one with me and we can, um, you know, I help people either a little bit or a lot of it depending on what they want and need. So we could just see, get to know each other and see if there's a fit.

Caroline 50:26

That's awesome. That is so awesome. And now for you from this vantage point, how do, I'm big on authentic success, and that's not what the world says, but it's what you say. So how do you define success for yourself from this vantage point?

Keith Anderson 50:42

So just overall success to me is feeling in my gut that what I'm doing is, uh aligned with who I want to be and become. And that feeling that I have is just a place of ease and comfort, right? And even when I'm explore, like when I explore new things, I'm very love to explore and move into other things. That's my signal that like this is the right direction. So that's what I consider success for myself. Um, and I know my mission in life is really help people evolve to become that next level leader or that next level person, whatever that may be. And with that mission and goal, everything that I do aligns in that as I grow, I help other people grow. And my alignment internally, as I mentioned, is how I know that that is successful. And, and it is going to be, it is gonna manifest even if it hasn't yet.

Caroline 51:41

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much, Keith, for sharing more of your story. And I wish you

Keith Anderson 51:48

right.

Caroline 51:48

utmost success in your business. And I'm, I'm, you know, we're connected for life now, so I'm here to help however I can and support your people, your community, please. Um, yeah, let's keep, let's keep in touch and let's keep cheering each other on. 'cause we're serving similar but different, uh, needs. Definitely.

Keith Anderson 52:08

Exactly Caroline. And, I have loved this conversation. I hope that the people listening also love what we're talking about or resonate with it. And, you know, let's, all listeners, you, me, let's all continue helping people and make the world a better place. So, yeah.

Caroline 52:25

I love it. Okay. Thank you so much.

52:29

Keith. Thank you for naming the part that nobody teaches. You took that familiar moment. So many high performers live through the praise without the promotion, and you made it actionable. If you're listening and you've been stuck in vague feedback, let this be your reset. You can become the obvious choice. You can lead with clarity. You can move forward with strategy that matches your ability. Thanks for listening to your next success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.