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What happens when you do everything right and still feel miserable inside? In this episode, Angie Hawkins shares what it looked like to build a practical life that slowly dimmed her. She opens up about the rock bottom moment that forced a turning point. That sentence of friend said that shifted everything and how she rebuilt her identity from the inside out. If you've ever felt like you're performing a life instead of living one, this is for you. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I am your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal I am a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out and the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth. And you will hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves. So you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours.

Caroline: 1:36

Welcome to Your Next Success, Angie. I am so, so excited

Angie Hawkins: 1:40

Hi Caroline. Thank you for having me.

Caroline: 1:42

Awesome. Okay, so as you know, I'm gonna talk about careers, career transitions. You are a celebrated author at this point. I know you've got something else also in the works. You're a great coach. But let's dial it way back, if you would. Tell me a little bit about your childhood. Like where did you grow up, what were things that you really enjoyed doing?

Angie Hawkins: 2:02

So I actually grew up in Indiana. I, I always say I'm from Chicago. I spent most of my adult life there. That's why I say that. Um, but I actually grew up in Indiana and as a child I loved reading and writing. I loved dancing, I loved singing. And by dancing I'm, I mean flailing.'Cause I had a trampoline and I would like one of those mini trampolines, not like one of the big outdoor ones, but

Caroline: 2:31

But still.

Angie Hawkins: 2:32

room and I would like jump and dance to the trampoline to music. Debbie Gibson was my favorite artist.

Caroline: 2:38

Oh my gosh, yes, girl.

Angie Hawkins: 2:41

She just wrote a memoir and I went on vacation a few months ago and I read it like on the plane rides, and I was like crying the entire time. Not because of her story, but just because it was, it just reminded me of my childhood and I remembered how much I loved listening to her music and, and I would get like all dressed up and stuff and I would like try to be like her.

Caroline: 3:02

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 3:02

Yeah.

Caroline: 3:03

okay, so you're loving reading, writing, you love this, like moving your body and music, and just really expressing yourself. Just freely it seems, and just kind of fun.

Angie Hawkins: 3:17

That's a perfect way to describe it.

Caroline: 3:22

Okay. And school-wise, were there any particular subjects that you enjoyed?

Angie Hawkins: 3:29

Oh, that's a good question. I don't really remember. I do remember in fifth grade there were two things. There was a reading challenge that I like killed because I love to read, and as a matter of fact, my teacher thought I was lying, and I think she called my mom, and my mom was like, no. She reads all the time, like she was like,

Caroline: 3:49

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 3:49

All the books that I had read, but also as it, it was in fifth grade as well. There was a contest, it was called the Young Authors Contest. So everybody in the entire elementary school wrote a book and my book won out of the entire elementary school. So this is like how hardcore into reading and writing I was. And as a matter of fact, when my dad died and my mom and I were cleaning out the house and actually. I was living in Chicago, so my mom was doing a lot of that legwork, but she had found some books that I had written, and one was the one I had written in fifth grade. And reading it as an adult, I'm like, this is so detailed and in depth, and even the plot was really intricate and I was like, this is really amazing for a fifth grader. The crazy thing is I didn't write for like over 20 years because in college I studied finance and I got out of it, and then I ended up getting back into it as an adult. But it reminded me how much it really lit me up.

Caroline: 4:50

Yeah, that's the thing because as children I think we, we do have some seeds of like who we can become and the things that are naturally, that we're naturally drawn to. And yeah, I don't know, and we'll unpack this a little bit more, but it's so normal that in some of our lives we just decide to like, oh, that's, that's gotta be just a hobby. That can't be my thing. And meanwhile, it's like, it really can be your thing. Hello. It could be your thing, you know? Yeah. Um, now what did your parents do for work when you were, when you were little?

Angie Hawkins: 5:19

My mom was a nurse and she retired as a nurse. My dad, I don't know his exact title, but basically I think he was called like a food broker. I don't know if that's what it's called, but he was the guy, he worked for a company and any brand that sold in a grocery store could come to his company and be like, we need you to market for us. So he would go into grocery stores and be like, Hey, of these brands are the best out of all the brands you have in the store. And so like, we would always have like free, free stuff before it was even like on the shelves of a grocery store. So that was kind of the added benefit, especially like with candy and stuff.'cause we would get like the new season's Halloween candy like three months

Caroline: 6:07

interesting.

Angie Hawkins: 6:08

and also he would get, have like all this promotional stuff. It's funny that we're talking about this because again when we were cleaning out his house, I took some like practical things. I took a box cutter. It's a Borax brand. Have you ever heard of that?

Caroline: 6:25

yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. I have some in my, uh, under my washer right now. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 6:30

I have a tape measure, I think it's from Frisky. So we would also

Caroline: 6:33

Oh, nice.

Angie Hawkins: 6:34

We would have all this like promotional brand stuff because he would get that for free. Um, but then when I was in high school, he got laid off from his company and then he ended up getting another job doing the same thing, but he like hated the company. So my dad. His entire life. He was like an amazing handyman because when I really stopped to think about it,'cause if I need to fix something, first of all, I call it handyman. But if not, like, I'll go on YouTube and be like, okay, how do you do X, Y, Z? But like back then there was no YouTube and my dad would fi like he could fix anything. And it's like he just knew how, which in hindsight, before internet and stuff is kind of amazing. So when I was in high school, him and his friend, they basically just started doing like handyman stuff. So then that ended up being my dad's career for his second half of life.

Caroline: 7:29

Oh, interesting. That's so interesting.

Angie Hawkins: 7:32

And I think he enjoyed that way more than the like corporate business type stuff.

Caroline: 7:37

What did when you were little, what did you think success meant and what did you think work looked like?

Angie Hawkins: 7:45

So that's a good question because I feel like there was a before and after, because when I was in my period of reading, writing, dancing on my trampoline. Like I remember I wanted to like move to LA and be a celebrity and like I thought, like being famous and like fancy was like the

Caroline: 8:08

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 8:09

Both of my parents were very emotionally unavailable, and as an adult I understand what that means. I understand why they were the way they were. But as a child, you don't have the tools to interpret that kind of situation. So as a child, I developed a belief that I didn't deserve to be loved. And so that's when you know my self worth started going downhill. I didn't believe in myself. And then my parents' messaging always was, well you need to be realistic. And or I would always talk about like driving.'Cause I always wanted a red convertible because my Barbie, I had a barbie red ferrari, so I always wanted a red convertible. And my mom was like, well, you have to have a job that pays a lot of money. You have to work hard, basically like just

Caroline: 8:59

Sitting it down. Yeah, like.

Angie Hawkins: 9:01

because it's not possible for you. Yeah, so, so then the, in the after it was just kind of like, oh, I have to go to college, get a practical job, work really hard, just basically be boring and unexciting.

Caroline: 9:17

So basically, so before you took on some of these external things about what you could, should do that, that before like,

Angie Hawkins: 9:25

I call it before my light was dimmed because I was like shining and full of energy and then all of a sudden it's like, nope, you can't do that. You shouldn't do that. We don't want you to do that.

Caroline: 9:34

Interesting. Like care, like out of like, like you were way more careful, cautious, and safe

Angie Hawkins: 9:41

Oh,

Caroline: 9:41

could say.

Angie Hawkins: 9:42

good way to say it. Yes.

Caroline: 9:43

Okay. Interesting. And is, do you recall, was there a specific like time that that shift was happening? Like was that awkward teen years or was,

Angie Hawkins: 9:54

It was probably around six years old. Um, Yeah, crazy. I went to this healing intensive once because I couldn't, I could never remember like the before, like

Caroline: 10:07

I get it.

Angie Hawkins: 10:08

home was. And I went to this healing intensive once and we did this crazy, and this was like in 2018, but at that time I had never done breath work or had really heard of it. But we did this crazy meditation with like breath work and I started having all these memories of when I was little and my dad because after my dad, he was an alcoholic. He was depressed. He would, he was just there like he would come home from work. He would sit in his recliner and drink beer until he went to bed. So he was physically present but he wasn't really there. But I started had having all these memories of when I was really little and he would like laugh and play and like would kiss

Caroline: 10:47

Oh.

Angie Hawkins: 10:48

us all goodbye before he left for work. And so something happened. I don't know what, but I think that's when my shift in belief also happened because he probably like withdrew into that, like depression and alcoholism. And then as a child, I was probably taking

Caroline: 11:05

Hmm.

Angie Hawkins: 11:05

it personally, so it's like, oh, I don't deserve to be loved. And then also my mom's reaction to that was anger. So like I also didn't have any memories. I still really don't. My only childhood memories of my mom are just being angry all the time. So of course like that's not loving. So I see how my belief did that switch?

Caroline: 11:28

Yeah. I see. And, and I'm also like, my, my oh was like, I don't know, there's prob my kids are gonna, um. I think they remember they're gonna remember me angry for a lot because there was this time, like for me, I was like pushing every, and we've talked before, you know, we met before and you know, there's performance, there's relationships and your wellbeing. And my performance had always been high. But my relationships and my own personal wellbeing were not,

Angie Hawkins: 11:56

Yeah.

Caroline: 11:57

so like during COVID and all of that, when the kids were home and everybody was home and all the things, and I'm still chasing to try to like reach these goals and serve clients and, and do good work for them yet. Actually being present to them, I'm screaming like, shh, mommy's on a call. And like everything, like I just, when they were super little, like I tried to keep a very regimented schedule for their, their health and also so that like I could do my work and do stuff when they were sleeping or at school or something. Right. And then it's like, and then they would come home and of course they start developing as real humans and have their own desires and their own personalities and their own things. And like when they were super little, they didn't, nobody challenged my plan for the day, and then they started doing it. And I didn't have the tools. I didn't have the tools, and so I, it was just, yeah, angry.

Angie Hawkins: 12:51

Yeah,

Caroline: 12:51

That's how, yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 12:52

That's how my mom was.

Caroline: 12:54

Yeah. Oh

Angie Hawkins: 12:55

As an adult. I understand why,

Caroline: 12:57

yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 12:58

you know, as a child, you just take everything personally.

Caroline: 13:02

Oh yeah. It's so hard. Well, it's, it's so hard. Yes, it is so hard. And, and I have a lot more empathy now, you know, on my own journey for my parents and I, I'm gonna just have to earn a lot of money to help for my children's therapy

Angie Hawkins: 13:16

Yeah, mean,

Caroline: 13:18

time. They're teenagers now, so I, I'm not doing anything right. So it's all good.

Angie Hawkins: 13:22

It's not too late though. I mean, have you ever had with them, just outta curiosity.

Caroline: 13:27

I have, I have tried the repair and I have tried the, like I did the best I could. I'm sorry. I know you don't think it was good enough. It wasn't. I don't wanna do that. And I'm trying, please know, I am trying.

Angie Hawkins: 13:38

I mean,

Caroline: 13:39

Well, and yeah, and I, yeah, and I think that's something different that I,

Angie Hawkins: 13:44

yeah. I

Caroline: 13:45

I wish had been modeled.

Angie Hawkins: 13:46

my mom and that's why I'm like, oh, that's so heartwarming.'cause if I heard that from my mom, that would make my day.

Caroline: 13:52

Yeah. They, they know that I'm a, uh, I'm, I'm a human. I'm a, yeah, yeah. I'm trying. They're trying too. Right. And that's the thing we're every, we're all trying. I don't think there's ever gonna be an age or a stage where it's like, oh, I got it now. Everything is all together. Just how everybody wants. You know? I want that to happen. And I also am realistic of, there's all, like every day, like I'm just competing with myself from earlier, from this morning, you know, no longer competing with everyone else. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 14:22

I know the forward of my book talks about how,'cause when I was little, I thought adults just knew what was up. And I thought

Caroline: 14:30

Yes.

Angie Hawkins: 14:30

there was some kind of like initiation or whatever. Like, here's the book to adulthood, just read this. And then you get to adulthood and it's like, oh, nobody knows what they're doing either.

Caroline: 14:42

Right. They don't know at all. And like for me, I, I did kind of start to see that when I would hang around more, um, kids at, as like parents and like school functions and all of that, and I'm, I'm of course like the room mom and all of that. And then I started like looking around and I'm like, oh my goodness. These parents are just older children. We are all just older children and some have more skills than others, you know? Um, and okay, so we could, we could go on forever. In high school. How about that? Were there any particular school subjects that you enjoyed? Did, did you still write or did you pause that?

Angie Hawkins: 15:19

So I did write in high school, and I remember I did take a creative writing class, which I loved, and I remember my teacher appreciated my talent and she encouraged me to do this one contest. And I remember I submitted it, but I think I was like really busy around that time, so I didn't win that one like I did in fifth grade. But I did love creative writing. I remember I loved Spanish a lot, but I think it was because I was the teacher's pet because.

Caroline: 15:50

Ah.

Angie Hawkins: 15:50

This is why I was a teacher's pet. It was kind of a fluke because there was a teacher, he would teach first and second year Spanish.'cause my high school was four, grades nine through 12. He taught first and second year Spanish. And then Mrs. Petri taught third and fourth year Spanish. So basically freshman, sophomore for the other teacher, junior, senior for Mrs. Petri. Well, my freshman year, for whatever reason, there was like an influx of spanish one students, and for whatever reason, a lot of them were sophomores. So Mrs. Petri had a level one class and it was like all sophomores and me as a freshman, I have no idea how I was

Caroline: 16:33

yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 16:34

There might have been like one other freshman, but there were only a few. It was like all sophomores and then me.

Caroline: 16:39

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 16:39

Fourth year Spanish, like I had had her for three years and everybody else only had her her for two years. So

Caroline: 16:45

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 16:45

like in third and fourth year I was her favorite, but it was only because she knew me the best. But I think I just fed off that and loved being in her class.

Caroline: 16:54

And appreciated that, like recognition for who you are. Yeah. That's awesome. So then how did it help me understand then with this love of writing and expressing yourself and that still kind of being a thread there. Then like how did you choose to go to college and how you chose to study, what you chose to study? Like how did that come in? You know?

Angie Hawkins: 17:17

So I'm gonna tell a little, the longer version, it's not like the longest, it's like mid-length long. So what happened was I was a straight A student in high school. I knew I was going to go to college'cause it was basically. I think, I don't know how it is now, but back then I'll just say how old I am. I graduated high school in 1998, but back then it was like you go to college, like you don't go to

Caroline: 17:45

Yep.

Angie Hawkins: 17:46

you don't go to like do anything else, like your path is to go to college. So I knew that that's what was gonna happen, but I never really gave any thought into a career. I remember at one point I did wanna be a lawyer, but every year. There was one day it was, um, basically you take the day off school and you go shadow someone in that field. And it might've been my freshman year, so I shadowed a lawyer and he didn't have court or anything that day. He was just like taking me through like this one case that he had and he was defending. I think it was a teenager who was accused of some kind of crime, and he was telling me how, he's like, oh, you just have to look into all the laws and find a law that supports him being innocent. So, you know, basically.

Caroline: 18:34

Interesting. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 18:35

And I was like, well, did he do it? And he goes, well, I don't know. I didn't ask. I'm just doing my job. And that was such a turnoff to me'cause I was like, oh,

Caroline: 18:46

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 18:46

a really gross profession. So I was like, I don't wanna be a lawyer. But then I never really thought about what else I wanted to do. And I feel like writing was treated like any other art, where it's like

Caroline: 18:58

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Angie Hawkins: 18:59

Persona. So it's like, that's stupid. Why, you know, you can't do that as a profession. So it never occurred to me to be a writer. And then I think my senior years, the year I really should have been thinking about that. But what happened was because of childhood traumas or whatever it, my junior year, I developed an eating disorder, so I was anorexic. And then the summer before my senior year, I only weighed. know, like 80, 85 pounds. And because my family, we swept everything under the rug, so we didn't even talk about it.

Caroline: 19:37

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 19:38

I was miserable but it was just like how I was dealing with my life stressors at that point. Well anyway, so early in my senior year, my mom approached me and she was like, I made you a therapy appointment because I want you to talk to this therapist about your weight. And my initial reaction, even though I didn't really wanna gain weight, was kind of relief because it was a burden.

Caroline: 19:58

Hmm.

Angie Hawkins: 19:59

for me to be living that way. And also it was. I got excited because I was like, oh, she actually does care. Because again, like we hadn't been talking about it because it has been swept under the rug. So I was actually like excited that she did care. But then she told me the reason why she scheduled a therapy appointment was because my friend's parents had approached her about my weight and it was embarrassing for her. And so yeah, it was like a knife to the heart. So then I ended up, I went to a few therapy sessions and this is how my mom was so adamant that I go to these sessions'cause I, in my senior year, I had my own car. I drove myself to school, but she was like, you're going to these sessions. So she would take off work, pick me up from school, take me to the therapist to ensure that I went. So after a few sessions, of course, like my dad's drinking and everything that's going on in the house comes up. And because my mom was in the waiting room, the therapist was like, is it okay if we bring your mom in? I was like, yeah,

Caroline: 21:00

Teenager son would've been like, yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 21:02

Like not that excited about it. But anyway, so my mom comes in, so, and the therapist was like, Hey, um, I hear these are the things going on at home? Are you willing to work on them to my mom? And so then, I don't remember what my mom said, but I do remember her driving me back to school and she was like, Hey, do you wanna keep going to therapy? And know, I'm a teenager. I actually liked school and this was taking me out of school. I thought it was awkward to be talking to the therapist, so I was like, no, I don't wanna keep going. So my mom was like, okay. So, so I stopped going to therapy, but I still had an eating disorder, so my mom was like. If you don't gain weight, you can't go away to college. And all I had been dreaming of since I was a little girl was moving outta that house. So fear is a good motivator. So I just immediately began like stuffing my face with food and I gained like 30 pounds in a month. Like I would like go to the store and just buy a bunch of junk food and eat it.'Cause I was like, I need to gain weight'cause I need to move out of this house. So then I was even more miserable because just like psychologically, that was a lot,

Caroline: 22:18

Uh, yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 22:19

But also physically like gaining that weight in a short period of time. Like I would be sweating at night. Like I had a bunch of like physical reactions to it. And then again, we just swept everything under the rug. So. My, my situation and externally was worse, but it was just like, Nope, we're not gonna talk about it. We're not gonna worry about it. So I was just so engulfed in this in my own issues and also, I hated my parents. I was just so focused on getting, moving out of the house and going to college that I wasn't even thinking about. What I was gonna do when I get there. and then when I got to college, so that was like the longer version. So I get to college

Caroline: 23:03

I appreciate you sharing that, by the way. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 23:06

So I get to college and it's like, yeah, you have to choose a major. I was like, shit, I haven't even thought about this. So I think I chose like psychology or something because I was like, maybe I can figure out my own problems if I study psychology. But psychology is like super science based and like I'm not a science person. So my, so I, sophomore year, yeah, I was like, because there's a lot of pressure, like if you don't declare

Caroline: 23:33

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 23:33

Your freshman year. I had declared a major, but I, I was like, this is not me. And so I was like, I have to pick something. So in my mind I was like, okay, I'm just gonna pick something practical. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to business school. And then in business school, your options are operation, marketing, or finance. And I was like, I don't wanna do marketing because I was like afraid of allowing myself to be seen. And I know like marketing and sales, you're like out there and I didn't even really know what operations was, so I was like finance, so I just picked finance. It was very arbitrarily'cause it seemed very practical and I was like, oh, it'll be easy for me to get a job when I get out of college. That was the only reason. It wasn't because I enjoyed it or anything. It was like, oh, this is a very practical choice and I think it'll serve me well in the future. It had nothing to do with what I wanted.

Caroline: 24:24

Mm-hmm. See, but it's so easy. It's that. Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that I, I found and I do now with people is this, uh, well, I'll say that I'm gonna help somebody who's exploring their next chapter to be authentically successful. And it has my next success method has four pillars. One of them is natural abilities because like, that's something that I didn't, I didn't know. Right. And being a, a good student, a great student, actually. I mean, give me the subject. I'll go get the A. Like I will work hard and buckle down and get the A and do the thing. And I could even do it, well, my energy might be drained depending on what subject it is. I might not actually like myself or that, but I'm still gonna push through and do it. It just that like buckle down, get it done kind of mentality. And a lot of people without that like core understanding of like, who are you actually, like how have you been hardwired, not subjectively, like who do you think you are? And I'll tell you what you said, right? Like, well, I'm an ENTJ. Like, okay, and now what? Like what do you do with that? I don't know what to do with that.

Angie Hawkins: 25:24

think I took some of those tests because you can

Caroline: 25:27

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 25:27

And they would tell you you should be, and I think the tests that I took, they were like, oh, you should be a lawyer. And I already knew like, oh, I didn't wanna be a lawyer. So

Caroline: 25:37

Yeah, good for you for like having had that experience and listening to your body and your gut and like everything of like, no, I don't think this is it. Yeah, but there's, because there's some hardwired traits that Yes can be good for finance. And yet also with everything that you're displaying, like you have this amazing idea productivity, you have this amazing creativity in both of those, it's a little harder to display those things while doing some like a a more typical profile for someone who enjoys finance, not can do finance, but somebody that enjoys it. Maybe their idea of productivity is a little bit less on the lower side, but it's great because they're focused on the numbers and they're focused on the task of getting that thing done and versus you're able to do it, you're able to do it really well. And you also then, when did the, like the drop off in writing happen? Like was that during college you had to focus?

Angie Hawkins: 26:36

Because it

Caroline: 26:37

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 26:37

just like, well, also, college was a rude awakening for me because it up until high school, it's like the teacher. You know, maybe does a lecture. It was, it's not called that outside of college, but you know, they have the session, you have some homework, there's a test. It's, definitely more interactive, I'll put it that way. But in college it's just like, um, read these five chapters and then come back next week. I'm gonna do a lecture, then read these five chapters. It was

Caroline: 27:06

Yep.

Angie Hawkins: 27:07

bunch of reading. And I was like, I don't learn that way. So I really, I actually struggled in college. I was a straight A student up through high school. I actually graduated 20 in a class out of like 500. But in college it was'cause it was just like reading, reading, reading. And then like two midterms and a final and that's in your grade. Just like those three tests. And

Caroline: 27:29

Yes.

Angie Hawkins: 27:29

wasn't a good format for me'cause it's like I'm not really learning. The lectures were okay, but it's like I can't just read five chapters and absorb all of this information. I need to like do something,

Caroline: 27:40

Yep. Like a kin. Yeah, that's a kinesthetic learner. So like the doing things with your body while doing this stuff and or even listening to it, you know, because the music component of you enjoying that too.

Angie Hawkins: 27:50

yeah.

Caroline: 27:51

Having those and, and yet you probably were like so focused on, Nope, I've made this decision. I'm gonna do this thing, and so now I'm gonna do, and that may have been taking a lot of extra time, effort, and energy. And so you make this practical choice of, okay, I guess I'm just not gonna do the fun thing anymore and I can't go out and do this thing because I have to do this thing

Angie Hawkins: 28:10

And especially'cause I kind of like wasted time my freshman year by not declaring a major. And then also I worked full-time when I was in college. I had two different part-time jobs. I worked at a bank 20 hours, like during the week because I would schedule my classes, like say I would work like Monday, Wednesday, Friday for

Caroline: 28:33

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 28:34

So I guess I worked 24 hours at the bank, and then I would schedule all my classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then I have a job

Caroline: 28:40

Oh wow.

Angie Hawkins: 28:41

Tables Friday and Saturday nights. So I worked over 40 hours a week while I went to school. So during the regular semester, I could only take,'cause I think the minimum to be a full-time student was like 12 credit hours. So I was only taking the minimum. So I would also go to summer school for both

Caroline: 28:58

Yep, yep.

Angie Hawkins: 29:00

Yeah, to your point, it was just like, I was just so focused on like working school, like I was a

Caroline: 29:05

Buckling down.

Angie Hawkins: 29:06

And it's, in hindsight, I actually feel like I just wrote something about this, um,'cause I write a blog or I was saying something or whatever, but I hated life in college because it was like I was just a robot. It's like work school, like I never slept, which was okay because I was like in my early twenties and it doesn't affect you as much, but it was just like. I didn't like my life, but in my mind, because that's how my parents were, they worked all the time. And then I was told like, you have to go to college by society and my family. So I'm like this, this is just what life is. I didn't feel like I had any other option to me.

Caroline: 29:44

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow@nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. I was so busy also. I think for decades of my life, like subconsciously, because I wasn't trying to deal with emotions,

Angie Hawkins: 30:30

that

Caroline: 30:30

I was like this head attached to a body, but definitely not integrated. Like I didn't actually feel feelings like I can now. And I had to, like, one time I googled like how to cry and, and I'm like, then I tried like all the things and I like, I like couldn't cry and I'm like, what the heck? Now I could totally cry, but like yeah, I had just like stuffed stuff stuff and I'm gonna overcome and like can't hurt me. That doesn't hurt. Right? Like just different. It was so interesting. And then just focus on like whatever the thing I was supposed to be doing, whether it was school, whether it was work, being involved in a bunch of activities and just always having something I had to do. And so I never actually was, still was kind of a

Angie Hawkins: 31:11

then I start,'cause I did the same thing. I, I actually numbed my emotions by running. So then

Caroline: 31:16

Oh, but at least you picked running girl. I picked m&m's. You know, like,

Angie Hawkins: 31:22

that's the downside because things like overworking and overexercising

Caroline: 31:26

yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 31:27

they're actually socially acceptable. So it's like I would be positively reinforced for running a marathon or whatever, but I was actually just destroying myself. But then it

Caroline: 31:36

Oh

Angie Hawkins: 31:37

that became part of my grind.'cause it was like, work, school, run, kill yourself.

Caroline: 31:41

Yeah. Oh, okay. So you get, you, you graduate from college and then you get a job. Tell me that. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 31:53

Yeah, so I remember when I was in college, I, I worked part-time at a bank. I, for a while I was a bank teller. And then I got a job in the, it was called the security department, but it was basically the fraud department, which was actually a really cool job.'cause we got to see all the like, scandalous stuff that was going on. And so in my mind I was like, I wanna work at a bank. And that particular bank, at the time I graduated, like didn't have any positions available for me, but I was like so fixated on working at a bank. So I got a job at another bank and it was so boring. It was just, it was basically like a clerical job, you know what I mean? Because it's like an entry level

Caroline: 32:37

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 32:38

job.

Caroline: 32:38

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 32:39

I was like, actually, this is what I did. I was a credit analyst for the small business administration loans and

Caroline: 32:46

interesting. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 32:46

Because they were subsidized mostly by the government. The bank didn't care. They're like, yeah, just unless it looks really shitty, like just approve

Caroline: 32:54

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 32:55

I was basically just going through all the bureaucracy of like, check, check, check. You have all the stuff approved. Like it was very rare that

Caroline: 33:03

Wow. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 33:03

did not approve a loan. So yeah, it hit me pretty quick that like,'cause I because I hated college so much and I couldn't wait to graduate. It was the same situation.'cause in high school I hated my life then. And so it was like, oh, I can't wait to get to college'cause it'll get better. But then it didn't get better. So in college I was like, oh, I can't, I remember I used to think I cannot wait to work full-time. That was my dream. And then I got to my full-time life and I'm like, oh, this sucks too. Um, but again I just thought that's how it was. Also, at that point, there was a ton of sunk costs between time and

Caroline: 33:37

Yes, yes.

Angie Hawkins: 33:38

in college. So it's like, what am I supposed to do? I have a finance degree, so this is what I do. So it,

Caroline: 33:43

Yep.

Angie Hawkins: 33:43

It didn't really occur to me that I had other options. It was like, oh, just stick with it and keep jumping around companies, which is what I did for a very long time.

Caroline: 33:52

I get it. I get it completely'cause there was a, a part where I went and I'm like, well dang, I went and got that PhD, so I guess I have to do this. If I choose to do something different, then did I waste all that time? Or maybe I'm not special or like, ugh, what, uh, I don't know. I don't know if I could do that. And then meanwhile is, and then finally I had to get to this point of like, you know what, forget it. Like, I can't keep pretending, I can't keep playing the role. I can't keep doing something for what I think I'm supposed to do. I'm just gonna go ahead and try to be me. I'm just gonna try that out. Of course there's a lot of work in different things, but,

Angie Hawkins: 34:27

not that easy, but it's easier than, yeah pretending to be something you're not, which is what I did for a really long time.

Caroline: 34:35

And society reinforces that, right? And it was like, and it didn't matter what I did. I could get awards and I could get things, and then there's the accolades. It's like, well, I guess, okay, well somebody thought that was good. I should keep going. I should do it, you know, and then, yeah. Okay, so you experienced that as well and and then what? Yeah,

Angie Hawkins: 34:53

Well, um,

Caroline: 34:56

I'm

Angie Hawkins: 34:56

trying to think, yeah, I job hop for a while and

Caroline: 35:01

All in finance related.

Angie Hawkins: 35:03

So I guess instead of questioning my career choice, I was more questioning the company choice.

Caroline: 35:08

I.

Angie Hawkins: 35:09

And, let's see. Okay. Where things finally came to a head, I experienced a rock bottom moment, and I don't know if we need to go into that here. I can if you want,

Caroline: 35:24

It's your choice. It's your choice.

Angie Hawkins: 35:25

So basically I, my mental health got so bad and it was a culmination of being a people pleaser and chasing love and approval and everything outside of myself, being a perfectionist and having these impossible standards and beating myself up if I didn't meet them. Basically putting on a facade of, yep, I work in finance and I'm doing this and I'm doing that and this is my life. Whereas like my soul hated it, it was killing my soul. So there were just like all these like culminating things. So in 2020, I intentionally overdosed on my anxiety medication'cause I was just like, you know what? I'm just like done with everything. So. I'm here. So what happened was I was unconscious in my bathroom for a day and a half. I was in the hospital for a day and a half. I was released from the hospital. I called a friend. I told her everything that happened her response was, it's not your time. And that sent a cold chill through my body and it was so profound and exactly what I needed to hear because I was like, okay, I think I do have a purpose and I'm determined to figure out what that is. And so I. Traditional therapy had never worked for me, so I invested in myself. I hired a coach, and I credit him to saving my life because through working with him, we were able to change my behaviors, which then changed my beliefs because I truly had this belief that I didn't deserve to be loved. Whereas now it's the complete opposite. I feel like I do deserve to be loved. I do respect myself. I do trust myself. And then eventually your behaviors start reflecting that through working with him. when you are a people pleaser, a perfectionist, or whatever your identity is in the things outside of yourself.

Caroline: 37:16

Yes, yes.

Angie Hawkins: 37:16

part of my work with him was to what you were saying earlier, like, who am I? Which may seem like a simple question, but I didn't even know who I was. So a lot of that work was building my true identity and being authentic. But through doing that,'cause I was still working in corporate America, it was like the light bulb. Like it was like I was in it and I couldn't see it, but when I started stepping into my true identity, I started seeing things and I could literally feel in my body how disconnected. Me, authentic me was from the things that I was doing in my life, and not even just my job, but like the friends that I had, just different things and so slowly I was like cleaning up my friends and other things in my life, but I had this story like. You know, a corporate job is stable. Like I was paid very well. I had the benefits. So I'm like, I, I can't give that up. That's stupid. That's insane. But those are so society's stories that I had adapted. So I finally, would love to say that like I finally had the courage to do it, and I did it. But the longer version of that was I was transferred to a team that was not a good fit for me.'cause my manager was a raging bitch. And I normally don't use that word to describe females'cause I think it's disrespectful. But she deserves that title. And so in that moment, and I, I'm not even mad at her because that she is the reason why I just really started thinking about it and I'm like, I think this is the kick in the butt that I needed to quit corporate America. so I, it took me like three months because I was like, I have to get to, I was working on my nervous system'cause I was like, I have to get to the point where thinking about quitting my job and starting my own business doesn't throw me into a full blown anxiety attack. So it

Caroline: 39:23

I get it.

Angie Hawkins: 39:24

Three months to get there then I quit and I started my own business and still not making as much money as I did in Corporate America yet, but I am a gazillion times more happy and fulfilled to the point where I'm like, why didn't I do that sooner?'Cause it was so disconnected from who I was.

Caroline: 39:45

And it's like so many times we just were taught to like chase money or, or the, the things and like those things aren't it? Because like, what is it? If you can make, let's say a, a bazillion dollars and you're still fricking miserable, then what is that for? And meanwhile, I was, and when I was starting to like question this and realize I'm trying to piece it together and like, could I, should I, why? You know? And I would go to somewhere like McDonald's or something and like those people were like the happiest ever, and I was like having this thing thinking like, how is it that this beautiful woman who is really trying hard to speak English is joyful and loving and you know, loving her day and loving that, she prepared this meal for me and with her team. And I'm like, and these people are happy and they go on to, you know, back home and they're still happy and they're loving their life. And I'm like, it's not it, it clearly isn't about money. It's not about money. There's something else there. There's, you know.

Angie Hawkins: 40:44

And the other funny thing about it was,'cause when I was working in corporate America, obviously I had a lot of discretionary income, right. And I did save a lot, which is why I was able to quit my job and start my own business. But,

Caroline: 40:59

Did you have a red convertible?

Angie Hawkins: 41:01

oh, I do. I, so that's part of my story. I ended up buying a

Caroline: 41:05

Sorry.

Angie Hawkins: 41:06

you know, these are, here, let me, where did I leave

Caroline: 41:08

I'm like, I'm like, wait a minute, wait, wait. Like do you have the red convertible? Because like that was a childhood thing, and then like you at least were able to buy it, you know? So. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 41:17

Lemme go back a minute. So I'll get back to what I was saying.

Caroline: 41:22

Sorry.

Angie Hawkins: 41:23

I left that part out of my story. Before quitting Corporate America, I some, there were a few things that happened that put me on my path, which in hindsight were totally uncharacteristic. Meaning like I am a courageous person now. I feel like I'm a confident person now, but I was not these things back then. So what year was it? 20? Well, it must have been 2016. So I had always wanted, have you ever heard of a Volkswagen eos? I.

Caroline: 42:00

I'm not familiar with the eos, but like Volkswagen in general, yes,

Angie Hawkins: 42:05

It's a convertible and it also has a sunroof, and it's the only hard top convertible that also has a sunroof, because Volkswagen patented the design. And so when they first came out, I was like, oh my God, I want one of those. But I wasn't making enough money. Well, so then I finally got a job where I was making more money, but I don't know. I wasn't really focused on the car, but then Volkswagen announced that it must've been in 2015, they announced we're not making EOS anymore. And I was like, oh my God. But then they were like, but we're doing limited production runs in 2016, so if you still want one, you can get one. in 2015 was like, like doing my budget, trying to get together my savings, but like I was a saver, so I was like, that's like a huge chunk of my money to put on a down payment of the car. But then I ended up getting like a really nice raise and bonus at work and I was like, boom. So I like immediately went to the dealership and it, it was funny'cause normally when you buy a car there's like, like here's the base price and then by the time you add on all your shit, it's like$20,000 more. But it was

Caroline: 43:24

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 43:24

because they were, because they were doing limited production runs, there were no options. They were like, this is your car, you choose

Caroline: 43:30

Ah.

Angie Hawkins: 43:31

And all I wanted was a red convertible. So I really didn't give a shit. And I'm like, plus this is nice because then I'm not spending all the extra money on

Caroline: 43:37

Right, right.

Angie Hawkins: 43:38

Yeah.

Caroline: 43:39

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 43:40

So yes, I bought a red convertible in 2016

Caroline: 43:43

Oh, that's cool.

Angie Hawkins: 43:45

Proud of myself because my entire life, everyone's like, oh, like it's not a practical car, blah, blah, blah. And even my mom was always like, oh, but insurance is so much more expensive. My insurance, I think went up like$2 a month. Like, so I'm like, that's a lie. And also I lived in Chicago, so everyone's like, oh, it's so unpractical.'cause you can only put the top down in the summer, which is not true because all you have to do, like it could be 40 degrees, you just put the top down, roll up the windows and crank the heat and it's like still kind of warm and cozy.

Caroline: 44:20

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 44:21

I was like, why did I let people rain on my parade so long? Because to this day I have a convertible and I still love it'cause it's like.

Caroline: 44:29

And now like tell people where you actually live now.'cause even that's just like fascinating.

Angie Hawkins: 44:34

So I actually bought the convertible first, but I al also had a childhood dream of living in Hawaii.'cause I had my Hawaii Barbie,'cause I also had the Hawaii Red Ferrari, but I also had a Hawaii Barbie. She had hair down to her butt, which I found fascinating. So that started my fascination with Hawaii. And then as an adult, one of my friends lived here for a while, so I would visit her every year. And that just kind of anchored it in like the feeling of wanting to live here and early 2018? Well, in 2017 my dad passed away and he was only 63. So that was my reminder that life is too short to not do what you wanna do, because in my mind it was always like, one day I'll move to Hawaii. And then, but after he died, I was like, Hmm, like why not now? And, and again, I think it like took that major life event for me to even think that thought.

Caroline: 45:26

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 45:27

And so at the beginning of 2018, I was like, okay, I'm gonna move to Hawaii. And I started like doing the budget and everything again, but to maintain my same standard of living.'cause I knew if I moved to Hawaii, I wanted to be all in and buy a condo, but real estate is more expensive here. So to maintain my same standard of living, I was like, well then I need, I needed like a hundred thousand dollars. I was like. I was so determined to move here, and again, this was a time like I was not confident. I was not cur courageous, like I wouldn't have described myself that way, but I remember I was like, I'm just gonna pretend that I'm moving to Hawaii this year. I called a realtor and I in Hawaii and I was like, Hey, I'm moving to Hawaii later this year. This is my budget. And I told her my dream budget, not my actual budget. I'm like, this is my budget. This is the neighborhood I wanna live in. She's like, great, I can help you. She put me on our listings. So every week I would just look, browse

Caroline: 46:24

Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 46:26

I would have pictures of Hawaii everywhere. I was just pretending like I was moving and then like things just started falling into place. Like one of my neighbors, I hadn't even looked into selling my condo in Chicago, but one of my neighbors, we were talking and I was like, yeah, I'm moving to Hawaii later this year. Again, I had zero plans, but I was just telling her this. She was like, oh, my best friend's mom is a realtor. Do you wanna talk to her about selling your place? I was like, perfect. So I talked to her. I lived in a really hotspot neighborhood in Chicago. I had only owned my condo for four years, but the market value had gone up like$40,000. And then. Uh, what I got like unexpected money from different places. So like within six months I had the a hundred thousand dollars and I actually was moving to Hawaii later that year, so I ended up pulling that off too. So, but my point about those two things, because both of those were childhood dreams and both of those were things where people was like, oh, it's not practical. Everyone would always rain on my parade and tell me how I shouldn't be doing that, whatever. And I did it. And those are the two of the best decisions I've ever made. And like to this day, like, bring me the most pride because it's like I did those things despite people telling me how impractical and impossible and all the other bullshit.

Caroline: 47:40

Yeah, that's, so,

Angie Hawkins: 47:41

a huge part of my story.

Caroline: 47:43

yeah. And, and then when did writing come back in?

Angie Hawkins: 47:47

Oh, that's a good question. So when I was living in Chicago, I will tell you the exact moment I was running, of course,'cause I was a runner and I run rant to numb my feelings. But I, I lived in this neighborhood called Old Town, which is the next neighborhood south of Lincoln Park. So I was running through Lincoln Park and it was winter I'm running along and there was one, Louboutin heel on the ground and I could only see

Caroline: 48:17

Interesting.

Angie Hawkins: 48:17

had a red bottom. And those are like, you know, at least$2,000 shoes. Right? And there's

Caroline: 48:23

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 48:25

And so that was kind of like interesting to me. But the crazy thing was it was next to a steaming pile of dog poop.'Cause it was steaming because it was so

Caroline: 48:33

Interesting. Yeah,

Angie Hawkins: 48:35

Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, what happened here?

Caroline: 48:39

yeah, yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 48:40

It was so intriguing and so inspiring that I actually went home and wrote like a fictional story about what could have possibly happened

Caroline: 48:47

Oh, interesting.

Angie Hawkins: 48:48

And that was the first time I had written it in a long time and I was like, oh my God, wouldn't it be funny because in Chicago there was all kinds of like, that was like the most unique thing I ever came across. But there's all these different like street scenes. I'm like, I could, I had this idea for a blog. I was like, I'll take pictures of this random stuff I see on the street and then write like a creative backstory about what happened there. And so my blog was called, So What Happened Here? And. But again, I was not courageous, I was not confident, so I was like, I haven't written it in 20 years. I can't just publish a blog'cause I'm not a writer. So, you know, like that was my mindset I was a perfectionist too. So I was like, I have to take a writing class so that I can call myself a writer again. And so I'm looking at all these writing classes. all in the evening. And again, I work in a finance job that was draining the life outta me. So I'm like, I'm not gonna have any energy in the evening to be a writer.

Caroline: 49:45

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 49:46

class I could find on the weekend was at Second City, Chicago.

Caroline: 49:49

I've not tell me.

Angie Hawkins: 49:51

So it's a very famous comedy school. Like any actor you've ever seen on SNL has been through the Second City Chicago training program. So it's just, it's this high caliber comedy school. And so, but they had a sketch comedy writing class and it, was like terrifying to me to do that because I'm like, first of all, I'm not a writer. Second of all, I'm not funny. It was the only class I could find on the weekend, plus it was like four blocks away from where I lived. So it was

Caroline: 50:18

Nice.

Angie Hawkins: 50:19

convenient.'Cause in Chicago you're all about efficiency. So practical wise, it made sense. See there I was again like,

Caroline: 50:26

Yeah. Again, very practical. Yeah. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 50:29

So I signed up for it and like the very first class I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. Like it immediately lit me up because especially like the comedy writing aspect, because like, it was fun. It was funny. the way the program works, like anyone could take levels one through four and each level was two months. So even if you only went through four levels, that's still eight months of classes. but then you could apply to getting levels five and six, and then your class writes and produces a show that's produced on The Second City Stage. And so

Caroline: 51:03

Oh wow. Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 51:05

So much fun and I was so lit up. That whole process takes a little bit over a year, but then after it was over, I was like,'cause I hadn't been focusing on my blog during that time, but it at least gave me the confidence.'cause I was like,

Caroline: 51:19

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 51:20

reading. And so that's how like the blog actually got started.

Caroline: 51:25

Interesting, interesting. And then how did the book come about?

Angie Hawkins: 51:28

The book came about. Uh, when, it initially, it came about the year my dad died because we live in a just get over it society. So after two months people just expected me to be over it and I was not over it, but just to appease everyone else, I put on my happy face and pretended everything was fine, even though internally I was still in this really heavy grief period. But then. Feeling that way. I would go on Instagram and everyone's all filtered and edited, and here's my life's all

Caroline: 52:01

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 52:02

And even in real life, other people had on their happy face and everything's fine. And there was just such this disconnect between what I was feeling and everything that was going on around me. And I remember thinking. do feel like we're having these conversations more now, but in 2017 we were not. But I just remember thinking there have to be other people who are going through shitty things right now and are feeling the way I'm feeling.

Caroline: 52:27

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 52:27

so I had the idea for the book'cause I was like, what if I write a memoir and it talks about all the shitty things that happen in life? And then, you know, and then we can just start talking about that stuff.

Caroline: 52:38

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 52:39

Again, I wasn't confident. I was terrified, especially because I knew it had to be vulnerable. I was like, I cannot allow myself to be seen that way. It was too terrifying. So it was just an idea. But then after my overdose and my friend was like, it's not your time, and I started thinking about my purpose. Um, oh, my very first call with my coach, he was like, if you didn't have to worry about money and could do whatever you wanted, what would you do? And the very first thing that came to me was my book.'cause I was like, I have this idea for a book. It's really vulnerable and that we can like talk about things we're not talking about. And then I can go on a book tour and have these space safe spaces to talk about the things we're not talking about. And I told him my whole vision and he was like. Did you notice how lit up you just got when you were talking about that? And I was like, yeah, I did notice. And so, you know, and working with him, it was a process.

Caroline: 53:31

Yeah.

Angie Hawkins: 53:32

In the immediate weeks and months after I got out of the hospital, life felt very fragile. So I needed something in the short term.'Cause my only goal at least a month was like, just to make it through the day. Like that's how fragile life felt to me. So, the initial, in the initial work I was doing with him, I knew that would take longer to, and not have like as much immediate relief. So I was like, I need something short term to give me a sense of purpose. So that's when I decided, I was like, I'm gonna write the book and publish it. And so I started on the book then.

Caroline: 54:05

Yeah, and from and from the parts that I was able to read, it is fascinating, captivating, fun. It does like, kind of put you in there and it has this bit of humor and like just a reality, just but in a really practical way at. It's still practical and fun, you know, and I'm just like, I wanna read more. I wanna read more. I'm running outta time. I have an interview, so, okay. So tell a little bit about what do you do now, aside from being an amazing author, what else do you do? And living in Hawaii and I imagine. Surfing and having lots of fun, enjoying the beautiful nature and everything there. And then what you know.

Angie Hawkins: 54:46

Yes, I am a surfer. I am also an inner glow coach, so I help women transform, basically go through the same transformation I did. Stop chasing love and approval outside of themselves and radiating confidence from within so that they can see like how good it feels to like have that inner glow generating from yourself and not chasing after it from something external.

Caroline: 55:08

And now, how do you define authentic success for you?

Angie Hawkins: 55:16

Hmm. Authentic success. This is the best way I describe it. You know, society has e even within society, so society has rules. Then there's like school system rules, family system rules. There's all these other systems within the society system, but all of these things, they're just, arbitrary rules that we all just blindly follow for no particular reason. So what completely changed my life and led me to my authenticity, and this is what I teach in my coaching program, and obviously sharing now, is creating your own rules for life. Because if you're gonna arbitrarily follow something, you might as well follow something that's true to you and authentic to you, and is integrity with who you really are as a person.

Caroline: 56:03

Yes, yes, yes. That's, yes, I agree. How can people find you is if they've been inspired and want to learn more and want to be able to be transformed from you, your voice, your story.

Angie Hawkins: 56:18

My website is runninginslippers.com, so there's obviously information on the book. It's available Paperback, Kindle, and audiobook. And the audiobook is in my voice. I did the narration. I know that's important to audio book listeners and then there is also information on my coaching program, which is called Shine from the Inside. Because it's based on the concept that we're all born with this light inside of us. Just like I was a little girl who loved to write and read and dance and sing and jump on the trampoline, but then society, family, all that stuff starts to dim our light and we become disconnected from who we are. And I feel like a lot of self-help is marketed as like. Fixing yourself or changing who you are, but it's just coming back to that light inside of you and living your life by your own rules in your own authentic way. And I do offer a free 60 minute find your glow session.'Cause I use, in my coaching program, I use the glow method and G stands for, go back to your childhood because to make any lasting change, you need to go back to where your limiting beliefs were formed and that's how you really create lasting change that sticks. So we have enough time in that hour'cause everyone I have a call with does have a breakthrough. So then at the end we can talk about recommendations for going forward.'cause I am not for everyone. My coaching program is not for everyone, but I do know other coaches and have other resources to get you help.

Caroline: 57:44

Awesome. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing your story for going deep in, in, in parts and letting us kind of hear the reasons why behind'cause so many times people are successful, they have that and it's just the resume version or the LinkedIn version, but like there's so much more behind those decisions behind the driving force. So thank you for giving us a glimpse in that and I wish you nothing but the best for your continued future. I'm so excited and looking forward to staying connected with you, Angie.

Angie Hawkins: 58:15

Likewise. Thank you so much.

58:17

Angie. Thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate you naming what so many people carry privately, especially the disconnect between the life that looks successful and the life that feels true to you. Thanks for listening to your next success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.