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What if the moment you realized you were winning, was also the moment you saw what it was costing you. In this conversation, serial entrepreneur and founder of Gathering the Kings, Chaz Wolfe, opens up about the identity shifts, turning points, and wake up calls that reshaped how he defines success in business, in family, and in faith. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we are here, the more we miss out. And the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who have navigated big career transitions themselves, so you can create a life, first career and become your own version of authentic success. Today's guest is Chaz Wolfe, a high performing serial entrepreneur on a mission to help business owners win in all areas of life. Chaz has built, purchased, and sold multiple seven figure ventures and franchising, home service, real estate and consulting. He's an operations and process maximizer, an award-winning sales mind, and the creator of Gathering the Kings a mastermind community for established entrepreneurs. He's willing to talk about the cost of chasing growth, the tension between work and family, and what it really means to be grateful but not done. We trace his journey from a 12-year-old taking on adult responsibilities to a young man buying multiple franchises in his twenties to a husband and father realizing that growth without grounding wasn't the story he actually wanted to live. We talk about predictable turning points in life and career, the power of autonomy, why some of us are wired to always want the next level, and how to hold that ambition and be deeply present to your faith, your family, and your health. In this conversation, we go beneath the business metrics into identity, autonomy, faith, and how to build a life that actually holds the success you're creating. Let's dive into the conversation with Chaz Wolf.

Caroline: 2:47

Chaz Wolfe welcome to Your Next Success.

Chaz Wolfe: 2:50

Of course. Thanks the opportunity, I really appreciate it.

Caroline: 2:53

Absolutely. So one of the things I'm trying to help people understand is to, you know, be who they are, be that well and keep improving. We're gonna get to how you have, sold multiple seven figure business businesses. Really impact lives of many, many others and entrepreneurs through this beautiful mastermind concept and allowing your success to multiply even more with and through others. We'll get to that. I'd love to dial it way, way back. Can you help us understand like where did you grow up? What was life for really really young Chaz like?

Chaz Wolfe: 3:29

I think like most kids, we just know what we know, you know? And so I didn't necessarily know that I didn't have what I didn't have. And so looking back now, I can look back and go, we didn't have a lot of, you know, we didn't have a lot of money. We didn't have a lot of peace because we didn't have a lot of money. I didn't have a dad. And so circumstances were of a lot of hustle, a lot of grind, a lot of push. You know, my mom working constantly, but, uh, always showing up with just a positive attitude and a get it done, environment. And so that produced a, a very grown up Chaz at a young age. You know, I've sat on other shows where I was a grown man at the age of 12. I'm working, making money, buying my own stuff, making my own decisions. I joke about with some, you know, whether it's friends or other people that have kids now that are, you know, turning 15, 16 and they're buying cars and stuff like that. There was no chance my mom was buying me a car and so in order to get a car, I had to actually go get a loan from a bank for 1500 bucks. My grandma co-signed. Uh, and that was like true autonomy. I was happy to do it because I that my mom could never say, give me your keys. Because they weren't hers. They were mine, they were my keys. It was my insurance, it was my gas, you know, and I, I, I, had, was working my, my, my butt off just to put what the little bits of gas that I could in the tank to go back and forth from school to my couple of hours a week part-time job at Sonic at that time. But it was like, it was complete autonomy. And now, now knowing personalities, we use the predictive index for all of our hiring and all of our team building efforts inside of our, my own companies, but as well as our, our clients. I know now that that is just one of the things, uh, that is just super important to a profile like mine is, is autonomy. Being able to make decisions, being able to, and even if I have to carry the weight right, so even at 12, 13, 15, 16, I'm carrying the weight that most teenagers shouldn't have had to. Uh, but I did willingly because, I, was happy. It gave me the autonomy that I truly wanted. So hopefully that gives you a little bit of a backdrop. I'm, I'm ambitious. I want more outta life. I love your projection to your audience of being able to stir the pot or ask questions or being able to pivot. Uh, I think that's why corporate America didn't work for me for very because I asked too many questions. I wanted too much autonomy. Um, I'm too much of a pot stir. And so maybe we can get into some of that here.

Caroline: 5:57

Absolutely. And where you grew up, like, was it, was it Kansas City area? I know that's where you are now. Is that?

Chaz Wolfe: 6:03

A middle of, a little Um, and so, yeah, we.

Caroline: 6:07

Some more rural ish.

Chaz Wolfe: 6:09

It was, I mean, it was a town of a hundred thousand, so no, not necessarily rural.

Caroline: 6:12

Okay.

Chaz Wolfe: 6:12

But, not a big city.

Caroline: 6:15

And you've mentioned a lot of times, like you've learned a lot of your grit, your resilience, all these things from your mom, just constantly kept trying her best, doing her best. What was her type of work that she did? Was there a particular theme to it?

Chaz Wolfe: 6:28

She spent a lot of time in, in real estate and property management. you know, so property management was probably the, the key factor there. She was a real estate agent for a short period of time. I don't know, maybe half decade or maybe a decade or something like that. But, you know, she worked inside of a, of an organization that built homes, sold them, um, managed properties. And so she, she wore a lot of hats inside that organization and others like it but she's, she's done a ton. I mean, she's been an executive assistant for a Fortune 500 company. She's been, a CEO, she's been, you know, a sales support staff. I mean, she, she has learned many skills over the course of time. Simply out of need, survival, willpower, you whatever you wanna call it.

Caroline: 7:11

Yeah. Absolutely. And, and yet that also'cause uh, to see, to me, I figure careers are like an iceberg. And typically what people focus on is the things above the surface. The title, the salary, the location, And and what's actually driving success and fulfillment is all those layers underneath the surface. So while things like, uh, predictive index disc, these kind of things, they're gonna tell you about your observable behaviors and that's cool. But just like as, uh, parents to children, we realize sometimes the observable behavior is, is actually, um, has an underpinning of some other unmet need of part of how they're wired or how they are, right? So I'm like, let me, let me check the observable behaviors and things and let me dig deeper into finding out what is the root, what is the soil, how do things come? And so that can be, influenced influenced by many different areas. Your family you come from and the family you have now. Both are huge into that. Because in a lot of ways it shapes our idea. Our family we come from shapes our idea about like how do things work in the world? Our first views, um, what's even possible, what kind of a of careers are out there? What kind of a a work ethic might I have? Should I have?'cause that's who we are, right? Um, and so I think that's, uh, fascinating and all the, the studying. I tried to do ahead of this. I got that your mom had many different jobs, but I didn't realize, and you talked about like being on construction sites and stuff, and I'm like, okay, aha. I see it a little bit more now. And, and that does seem like some of those influences absolutely shaped not just how you show up at work, but some of the things you've that you've had, opportunity to to explore more. And you had a, an early introduction, so that's,

Chaz Wolfe: 8:52

That regardless of the, the specific jobs that she's held, know, what I've been able to, glean, is I even, even though I may not be totally skilled in this thing yet, I can, I can jump in, I can take the skills that I do have, I can apply them, I can ask a lot of questions. I can learn a new skill, and I don't need to be fearful of that. Although it may be hard or challenging, I, I've watched her reinvent herself many times. So I think that part of building a career, building businesses for myself, you know, is it's not just you becoming a new identity. Yes. But, uh, reinventing yourself professionally, I think is, is kind of part of the game.

Caroline: 9:27

Absolutely. Now you, um, what was it at 12 that helped a lot of stuff kind of, uh shift. I've heard, I've heard this age of 12 a a few different times as far as like you're saying that, um, you were kind of working and getting things done on another, um, part, it was like, I think around 12 you started going to church and started realizing and recognizing even more of the beautiful world that we live in. Um, but what was, why 12 of all the times?

Chaz Wolfe: 9:56

Yeah, I think that it's funny now because my oldest just turned 12 and I'm watching Grow, develop, change right before my eyes. and as a, as a 12-year-old, even the last couple months as an 11-year-old, she, she's a different person than she was just six months ago. And, and all the kids, each six months look completely different. But there's been this dramatic change from kid to teenager really, or a young adult. She's looking at things differently. She's experiencing, you know, obviously changes in her body and, and hormones, stuff like that. But, the way that she thinks and, and the way that she goes after things is different than just a year ago. Um, and so I would probably say it was similar, you know, just that that, timeframe of, I started to work, I started to understand that like, ooh, I can, a cause and effect, right? Like if I, if I do this and I earn this, then I then have these choices. Um, and I think you're old enough to, you know, like start putting your body to some physical labor, to some actual things. You know, she's starting to babysit. You know, we bought them, they borrowed some money from me, my, my two daughters and bought a vending machine business in the last two months. And so they're physically working their business and, and they're starting to kind of correlate between like, okay, if I do these things, I get this result, AKA money, and then with that money, then I have choices, autonomy, freedom potentially. And that, that was what it was for me'cause it's not that, it's not that I didn't like my scenario. I mean, I, I, I had a super close relationship with my mom growing up. So it wasn't like I was trying to get out of the scenario, but knowing myself, I wanted to be the lead. I didn't want someone else making choices for me. And so that was probably the first time in my life where I was able to go, you know what, actually, if I do this, I get this result and then I have control.

Caroline: 11:41

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And so, um, school-wise or activity-wise, what were the types of things that that fascinated you?

Chaz Wolfe: 11:50

I played basketball all during that time, competitively all the way through, um, high school and then a little bit of college. But there's a kind of, a funny piece to that, I'm 17 years old. I'm in the middle of my junior year of high school. I've played basketball for, you know, most of my life at this point. It, it has been a good chunk of my focus. and, uh, I'm halfway through my junior year and I kind of have this revelation that I'm an okay player. Um, I'll probably D2, um, get some looks at D2, offer. Go to go to college, have it paid for, via a scholarship or mostly through a scholarship. And then, and then what? And I, I could see the end of where basketball took me and I'm 17 and I go, well that doesn't actually make any sense. It seems like I would spend the next, you know, four to seven years on this thing. A lot of effort, a lot of time, a lot of input for, for, for what, you know, just to be able to get a free college education. I wasn't super sold on college anyway. I wasn't sold on school to begin with. We can talk about that here in a second, I literally, middle of the season, I fold up my jersey and I walk in and I hand it to the coach and I say, Hey, I'm done. And he's like, wait, well wait a second. No, I, I, I don't try to persuade me otherwise. I've already made my decision. Um, basically basketball's only gonna take me so far and I, I'm gonna just jump to the end of the story and start working now. Um, I'd rather make money now than spend time and effort on basketball now. And, he was just like flabbergasted that the 17-year-old kid was just making this type of decision and so that's what it was. I did play a little bit in college. I, I went to a college that, you know, it was kind of a small Christian school I went to for just one semester. I'm, you know, shooting around with the guys and they're like, Hey, you're playing right? I'm like. Uh, I didn't come here for that. They were like, no, no, you you should play like the, a lot of guys came here specifically to play, but you're good enough, you should play. So I ended up playing for that first semester. Um, but just as a taste, it was just like, it was drawing me back, you know, the love of the sport. But, um, I knew it wasn't what was, you know, meant do.

Caroline: 13:54

I love that, um, because I, one of the one of the things I was mentioning before we were, um, um, in really into this recording phase is, is I've learned that questioning your career happens at predictable stages, and you hit that first one And you didn't override it. So I love that because you know that that first phase, which could be between 15 to 18, and you're starting to question like, is this really it? And, and I really am trying to help people design like, what is the life you want? And how can your career fuel that life? How can the things you invest your time, effort, and energy in provide the vision of the life that you're looking for and you recognized it then. Right? And you can have many, many people who have your best interests in at heart from the data that they have in their perspective of what it would be like for you to be you and you know what it's like for you to be you. And you saw that you recognized the disconnect. You course corrected. And you ultimately followed your true calling, if you will, right? Like you did not care what the world said. You cared what, you wanted, and overrode those things and helped you know that that's, I think that's fascinating. And you still can have this love, right? And then realization as we grow that there's some things that we can enjoy doing, and they and they don't have to be our profession. They can be our hobby, they can be a fun,

Chaz Wolfe: 15:19

Exactly.

Caroline: 15:20

Uh, something fun and enriching to our life. So I, I, I love that as well. Okay, so you leave, college and you then decide to pour yourself into even more working. What do you go into doing and how did you get that next level opportunity?

Chaz Wolfe: 15:39

And so I, I left, college again, same, similar reason there. I just kinda had this like, you know, what am I doing moment here? And not that, not that, um. I was in the wrong place necessarily, but due to external circumstances that had to do with my mom and and financially, the, the family, just in a specific position, I felt duty, uh, to, to leave school and to come back And to be, a part of the solution for our family. And so I did that for a short period of time financially. And really what that did is it gave me the opportunity to be back in town with, with my girlfriend at that time, who I wanted to ask to marry me, who I eventually did. We've been married now for almost 18 years. And so it gave me a chance to, to, to help the family be back with my girlfriend and then start working. And really just kind of get after this ambition that was in my heart and for me, you know?'Cause I went to a, a Christian school, I was gonna become a youth minister, and I had kind of like, you know, the only father figure I had was my youth minister. And so, just naturally, I think what a lot of firstborns do is they kind of follow after their father, you know? And I think if I would've known my dad, which I know now. I know him now, he didn't know existed. I thought somebody else was my dad. And so I. If I had known him growing up, I would probably be a veterinarian and a farmer'cause that's what he is, or a cattleman and so I think that there's a lot to say with me. At that time I was following my quote unquote, you know, father figure at that time going to school to be a youth minister. And even, even, my, my wife at that time as a girlfriend, she was like, are you sure this is what you're supposed to do?'Cause she could, she could see the ambition and the skills and the leadership in me even at that time and was kinda like, huh. I mean, not that you can't use those things in youth ministry, but I, like the puzzle pieces aren't fitting, you know, to me. And so during that re recognition of like, okay, I'm gonna come back, help my family, I help my mom, you know, be closer to my girlfriend, start working. It really just gave me like a new slate of going like, okay, done with the ministry thing. walked away from that. What am I actually designed for? And I think that I leaned into, uh, some sales stuff that I had started. I had started working at Footlocker as a kid. I'd done very, very well in retail sales, become a manager at a young age. And so when I left, I started some other sales positions. Got myself into some, you know, some phone sales, where I was earning more than all of my college buddies, even when they came outta college, more than anybody in my family ever had and, and it was just based on my work ethic. My ambition, my willingness to serve our customers, you know, and so, that's where it led me after school is I would just, I was on a hunt, for, success, I guess financially.

Caroline: 18:17

and our, definitions change over over time. And so how did you get those successive sales opportunities?

Chaz Wolfe: 18:26

I'm 21, kinda fast forward a little bit. I'm 21. We'd just gotten married, we moved to Kansas City. I've got a buddy that works over at this call center and they're selling advertising and they're making 150 to 250 calls a day. You know, environments like that, you know, kind of thrive on 21, 22, 28-year-old, men and women. But, but a lot of dudes, especially guys like me that don't have a college education, the promise of making 50, 60, 70 K at that time was, was like, really? I could, I mean, that's, that's more than anybody in my family's ever made, you know? And so for me to come in at 21, I almost made 60 grand that year, 22, I made over a hundred grand, 23, I made 150, you know, like 24, I leave my corporate job to buy my first business. And so I kind of escalated quickly once I had again choices or options, and that that was stemmed from the, the money that I was earning.

Caroline: 19:15

How did you choose that franchise? Out of all of the ones, like what were the deciding factors because, you know, come to learn it was edible arrangements and you, you don't necessarily prefer fruit. So, um, help me understand, help me understand that.

Chaz Wolfe: 19:32

I think that there's kind of two different types of entrepreneurs. The one that needs to like, love the daily tasks, to love the widget, if you will. And I have a, I have a buddy like this we had looked at buying a business together and it was a carpet cleaning franchise and, uh, he was like, man, I just, can't see myself cleaning carpets. I was like, huh, that's interesting. I never thought about that, I never thought about what it would be like to clean carpets. You know, I was willing to clean carpets or toilets or fruit baskets, or it, it did like the widget or the product didn't matter to me. I like the game of business. I like to win and so I was just playing a different game and it, and that doesn't mean that my game was wrong, uh, or his game wrong.

Caroline: 20:11

No.

Chaz Wolfe: 20:11

Just

Caroline: 20:11

Just different.

Chaz Wolfe: 20:12

Just a preference of going, Hey, I, I wanna, like, to be in the daily thing every day and love it. And I wanted to be in the daily thing from a business perspective and love it, you know? I already knew I was gonna love the game.

Caroline: 20:23

Yeah. And love the results from what that thing provided for you. Gotcha.

Chaz Wolfe: 20:27

To answer your question, how's how I got into it? I looked at businesses for almost two years, about 18 months. I looked at everything under the sun franchise, non-franchise service, not service retail, dry cleaners, furniture, I mean, you, you name it and then I just landed on this brand where I felt like, you know, given my kind of sales background, my team building background with corporate and, and being successful as a leader, that I could grow with those skills inside of this, this brand.

Caroline: 20:54

That's awesome. Okay. And then how did that lead to other opportunities for you because you've, you've really done a, an amazing job of leveraging you've what you've had, the skills you've learned to get to a certain point, and then you keep leveling and leveling and leveling and,

Chaz Wolfe: 21:10

I think, I think the answer underneath all of that is I, I just never stopped. You know, I just, I just kept adding things to the plate, intentionally or, or even subconsciously. And so, to, to answer your question, um, you know, I, I get that first location. There's another location, you know, 10, 15 minutes down the road. I, I get introduced to her. She's, you know, basically retirement age but she says she doesn't wanna sell yet but even me asking those types of questions, like where did that come from? I wanted more, like I just bought the first business. People are like, you just got your first, you know, 400 something thousand dollars SBA loan. Like, dude, this is wild at 24, 25 years old and I'm talking about trying to do it again down the road and so I ended up convincing her to sell and I bought that one six months later. Which is pretty abnormal. Typically, banks don't do back-to-back SBA loans like that. You have to have, be in business for a year or two. But I just, I had a good history, I had a good, a good business plan. I had, a pleasing personality. I don't know, like all of the components that allowed them, uh, faith that I could, I could do this And then a year later, I, I built a brand new one and a year later, I built a brand new one in a different city three hours away and then a year later I built two brand new ones in two different cities and bought a third one in a completely different state, all at the same time and so that took me from four to seven in about four years, about 70 employees or so. And I look back on that and I'm just Whoa. But it was, it was all driven by like, what's next? Like check, check, got the one, now what's next What's next? What's next? And I've since defined that, um, inside of our mastermind community as as grateful but not done. And, uh, if you've done research on me, then you've definitely heard me say that because there's this, there's this mental position especially entrepreneurs like me get into where we're always just hungry for the next thing, and we don't necessarily know how to be present in the moment and be grateful for what has happened, good, bad, indifferent, whatever. And I think it has to be both. My ambition for the next thing isn't the problem. That's just how God made me. Like I'm always going to want the next thing that doesn't make me discontent or it doesn't make me not grateful for what I have or not happy about my current life it's just the way I'm designed. So I think that the answer for people like me is to be able to embrace that ambition and know that I'm playing the ultimate game of what's the next level, what's the next level? And I'm constantly obsessed with that and now I know that it's for every area of my life, not just business, but for me to also be able to sit in a position and I've come a long way And Caroline over here has taken me through the history of like, how did you do this? How did you do this? And go, you know what? I had some really cool people help me along the way. And yeah, I made some hard choices and there were some sneaky moments in the middle there where I lost some money and like, ah, I was a little bit nervous and. I've kind of come a long way. This is kind of cool, but there's so much more, you know, to, to get done.

Caroline: 24:03

Um, when did you first read Think and Grow Rich?

Chaz Wolfe: 24:07

I'm 19 years old. I'm fumbling through the book. I don't even know if I finish it because I'm like, what is this? I have no, like, I don't even know how to read this. I don't understand it. I put it down, I move on to the next self-help book and I don't know exactly when I came back to it, it was maybe a year or two later. I'm, you know, probably 21 ish, 22 maybe. I can't remember exactly, but but I had no idea what it was. I had no idea what it said. Since then, I, I don't maybe I've read it a hundred times, like no exaggeration, Maybe 150.

Caroline: 24:38

Yeah. Yeah. And each time it's kind of almost like the Bible, but it's not the Bible, right? Like, so completely different, categories, but both books that are like ever living, helpful, you know? and just, yeah, regardless of the time or space, you can find a great nugget.

Chaz Wolfe: 25:39

We're developing, We're changing, right? To to your point, we're always, you know, whatever stage that we're in, in our career or in our families, um, and so very similar, like you said to the Bible, it's reflective, right? The, the person that I am today can read it today, and it can get something different from the person that I'm gonna be in six months or in six years.

Caroline: 25:57

Mm-hmm. Okay, so you got all these franchise and then at what point, like did, did your family expand while you had these, uh, growing from one to seven franchise in four years, or had, were, were kids not quite in the picture yet? Where did,

Chaz Wolfe: 26:14

It was, it was all at the time, just kinda wild. So my first born, we, we have had all, home birth. And so I remember my first born, we're at home. She's born, you know, the midwife and the and the doula leaf. Like they leave at like 3:00 AM after the birth, they get us all situated, we're in the bed, the three of us, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm already like in new dad shock of like, who is this? Where did you come from? you know, you don't look like me. Who are you? You know, like just weird dad vibes that get if we're honest about, just, we're too logical. You know? Mom's totally just like in love and glad that it's all.

Caroline: 26:51

Yeah.

Chaz Wolfe: 26:52

And, we're just like, oh, wow. They're, they're leaving. They're, they're leaving us here with this. They're like, oh no. It was the next morning, next morning at 10:00 AM that I get up and I'm delivering equipment for that first brand new location that I told you I was building. It was my third location. And so, two and half years later is when our second was born. and so that was in the process of building five, six, and seven. And so we went, you know, during zero to seven locations of that, at that franchise. Uh, we went zero to two kids. My, our third was born shortly after that. Um, so yeah, kind of a wild, wild ride expanding in all areas. In fact, I joked with franchise development lady, that I was gonna have to keep up with the kids. I was gonna have to have more kids that I could name the new location, like legal names after, after the kids, and she just chose just like, crazy Chaz I was like, I know. I know.

Caroline: 27:47

How did that, uh, pivot your, or adjust your vision of what you thought you wanted for the future by welcoming these kids into the world? Did any, was the what was the effect of that?

Chaz Wolfe: 28:00

I wish, like now I can say my perspective of family and kids is just so different. And I don't know exactly when that changed, but early on I think that, you know, that was a 26-year-old Chaz, 28-year-old Chaz. I don't think I fully grasped what fatherhood was, and maybe it's because I didn't have one. Maybe because I didn't, I didn't, that that modeled for me. But, um, I didn't, I didn't fully grasp it at that time. I, I was still very much building businesses and I was available and I loved my children and, and of course my wife, but I was not there. Like really? I wasn't all in. I thought I was but, looking back, I, I wasn't and probably till I was, I don't know, maybe even 32, 33, you know, where I've got like, kids that can engage with me and I think this happens with dads in general is just like the, the older that they get, the more active they become. And I, I can become more engaged with them you know, when their babies, it's tough. You know, the screaming sound of a baby, they've done studies on this where like what it does to the inside of a man versus the inside of a woman, like I'm like tense and I wanna run and a woman's like, you know, Julie's like, oh my gosh, sweet thing, please come here and all nurturing and and so even from like yeah. It's just like, ah, kind of like, ah, I'll just go build businesses, you know? it wasn't really until, you know, six, seven years ago, 5, 6, 7 years ago where I started going like, I should probably look at this different, you know, so I'm kind of maybe a little sad to say that, but that's the truth.

Caroline: 29:37

That's reality. I mean, I, I was successful in a couple different chapters. One is, uh. PhD research scientist making of all things structural adhesives to bond metal car parts together, fatigue and fracture. What? I did it. I did it well, right? I studied how cracks initiated and grew, not because I wanted to break them, but because I wanted to make them stronger. Fast forward to decades later, I do it with people. Now because I'm trying to break them, but because I'm trying to understand what is the inherent characteristic that is allowing that crack to not just initiate, but propagate and how can I help maybe arrest it or make it be a bit a different way in the middle, I had a stint of global, Recruiting recruiting for the chemical industry and my performance was always stellar, and I thought my relationships were something that were just gonna always be there. And I thought my health was something I always had time to do. It was that important, but not urgent. Right? And so I was in this, uh, delusion. I thought I was doing what I needed to be doing, and I kept wanting to win and win and win. And I had so many external things saying I, I was in fact winning and I kept getting these awards and as soon as I got one, I'm chasing the next one. Um, or earning vacations. And, uh, for top performing, you know, you get to go to cool places and then you realize, well, they, they scheduled that trip in February, um, and the kids can't go to school, so now I'm gonna vacation on my own. And how does that make any sense? Like I, I've just now uprooted. My husband's life to do things that we do as a partnership. How, what, what? And then, yeah. And so it, it's, but I had to experience that to know some things I can read and I can learn and, and there's knowledge and there's knowing. And the knowing is the actual experiencing and the actual kind of realizing like root, root, wait. None of this matters if I am, you know, control health challenges I didn't even realize were connected and not showing up how I really, truly wanna be for the people that I say I love the most, and they're getting the worst of me because my work got the best and then I'm exhausted. Like,

Chaz Wolfe: 31:40

Yeah. It's powerful, Caroline for you to have that realization and, and then obviously be able to help others. I talk about this quite a bit with entrepreneurs now, you know, this integration of family and business. It's not that lowering our obsession with business is the answer. I think that for crazy people like you and I, this, this is, this is how we're made, this is how we're fueled. Great. So just the answer is actually to increase our obsession with our family or with our kids or with our health, right? And I think once I, once I understood, or I've even said this to other entrepreneurs, you know, we've said the, like, well I'm building this for and it's like, well wait a second, let's break that down'cause you say you're building it for them. But you never get to see them. You're living a different life than them and a lot of entrepreneurs slow down enough to think about that. It doesn't mean that they need to less on the business or give up their dream or, you know, trade. Okay, well I'll, I'll make a little bit less money so that I can be more present with my family. I don't think that's the case at all. I think that the intentionality of how you spend the time with the family or on your health or whatever is what needs to increase. And I think you can have it all, if you're super intentional, you can for sure it all.

Caroline: 32:47

Absolutely. Now, for you, I know you also ended up like the, the franchises led to other things. Led to like working in cool places, moving your family. I think there was a stint in corporate there. All all of this stuff and, uh. What was it that helped open your eyes, change your pers perspective? For me, it was my husband after our 20th wedding anniversary. Um, he is very. Together we're a whole We're a whole person. It's amazing. But he's generally non-confrontational. Kind of kind of very easy. Go with the flow, whatever you need to do. I'm here to help kind of guy. Uh, and he said, uh, right around our 20th anniversary, he said, I am terrified. We are not gonna have another anniversary. And I'm I'm thinking like, oh man, did I, oh, and he said, because you're literally killing yourself and I know who you are. The kids, I don't think that they're seeing who you actually are. Yeah. And and so I don't care what you do I'll support you a support you a hundred percent. Figure it out. I don't think what you're doing is it.

Chaz Wolfe: 33:51

Yeah.

Caroline: 33:51

So it was almost like when somebody asks you, are you okay? And you're not okay, right? And you're, but you're trying to front like, you're fine, you know? But for you, how did that realization come that yes, you were and are amazingly successful and yet you still wanted more in those other areas of life too?

Chaz Wolfe: 34:13

I'm gonna tell you the situation that was the moment. I didn't realize that in the moment, believe it or not. And you're gonna be like, how are you that blind? The situation was my wife had family photos scheduled and she did them without me and I remember when she did'em, I was just like, oh yeah, no big deal. Like, I, I couldn't be there. It was just like, oh, I just can't be there, you know? And it wasn't really a big deal to her at that time. It wasn't like, well, I'm pissed, it wasn't like that, you know. The circumstances of our life we moved to Miami, to take advantage of a pretty unique opportunity with some pretty big names and, and for all intents and purposes, it didn't work out. so we were there for about a year, my other companies were still existing at that time, and so there was, in one of my businesses, there was just some movements that, kind of were unforeseen and I needed to physically go there. I had, you know, not needed to be there for years, you know, I was managing the business from, from remote, like up above, you know, management. But I had not physically needed to be there, in at least two or three years, and the circumstances were where I needed I needed to go there and so, you know, she didn't, it's not like she didn't understand that she completely, and, and agreed, but she wasn't gonna let that slow down. I'm capturing family photos of our family like I do every year. And, and so she wasn't angry about it. It wasn't a big deal to me. It wasn't a big deal to her, that's probably why in the moment I just like no big deal. Like I just, I can't be there. So it's not like we're in a fight about it, but it was a few years later and I use it in my presentation now, uh, to talk about my story, but I'm just what? She, she did what? You allowed, what? You know, and, and when you say that, you know that, you know, your wife did family photos and then I show the picture of my wife and three kids at the time. my third is just a, just a baby. And it's like, unbelievable, dude. What, what were you doing? You know? So looking back is the moment of like, that's exactly when. But I didn't even realize it in the moment. It was a few, you know, maybe a year and a half-ish later where I was just like, oh, dang, I dropped the ball on that. You know, shortly before that, before we even moved him to Miami, I almost missed the birth of my second child and there was some miscommunication in that, like I didn't realize how far along she was. She, she wasn't, you know, super, she was doing the like, Hey, I want you to come home, type of thing, but I'm like, well, where are you in the process? You know?

Caroline: 36:40

right. right.

Chaz Wolfe: 36:41

Because I got to do and unfortunately I should have just. oh, you're in labor, let, let I'm, let me come, right? Like, that's just not unfortunately the decision that I made. And so I, I'm I'm not peeling myself from the office. I get there, you know, baby's born maybe 45 minutes later, she labored on her own And, and still today that's like a thing, you know, like she's forgiven me, of course. But it's that's a little bit of like a, a sticky time. We're just like, dang, how did what was so important to me, You know? It, it's a reframe, Of what's important priorities.

Caroline: 37:13

Yeah, but you did what you could, like, there was a time my husband, um, the kids had swim lessons. Okay.'cause I'm like, they're, they're little and they, they don't sit still. And so therefore, and we have a pool in our neighborhood, we should learn to, to do swim lessons. And I didn't feel like they were candidates for group lessons and they had individual lessons. Right. And, and.

Chaz Wolfe: 37:31

individuals bless

Caroline: 37:32

God bless this beautiful entrepreneur who said, you know, regardless if you come or not, you're paying me because, and it makes sense, right? And so kids are having swim lessons and my husband's like, something's a little interesting with my heart. I think I'm gonna go get it checked out. And I'm like, yeah, okay. And I took the kids a swim lessons. What the heck? My father-in-law went right and a few years later I ended up having an irregular heart rate. And my, um, husband of course, he came with me right away. And then he said, while I'm sitting there, he said, yeah, I had to do this on my own. And I was like. And I'm thinking like, I don't even know what it was. It was not much money. But at the time it seemed like a lot of money for the swim. And I'm like, And I.

Chaz Wolfe: 38:15

Sunk costs.

Caroline: 38:16

You Oh yeah. Anyway, but you, but like, you know, regardless. Really are, I do inherently believe we really are trying to do the best we can in the circumstances when make when we make a decision. Could we now, later, can we judge and we realize the, oh man, that really wasn't my best, but at the time I thought it was, you know, and I'm sure at the time you thought it was, and, and um, and you know, those second kids come a little bit differently. That's all. They're kind of like, the system's a little bit differently. So how are you supposed to know? Okay. Um. I'm, I'm curious. I don't, I don't wanna like overstep, but like, when you say that the Miami cool venture, um, didn't work out, were there like, it, it didn't work out like, were you feeling some sort of way in your body to realize that this wasn't necessarily aligned? Like if there's performance, relationships, and wellbeing, like,

Chaz Wolfe: 39:13

Yeah.

Caroline: 39:13

Was there a root.

Chaz Wolfe: 39:15

For sure, so I mean I've, I've talked about this in other areas and most people know just'cause it was a, a pretty big agency. But, you know, Frank Kern, Grant Cardone come together in 2019 and, and build an ad agency basically behind the scenes, me and one other guy are running the business. I mean, we have a whole team, like, I mean, it was a giant, giant business, but me and this other guy built, built the sales side and the ops. And so it was working until their relationship really just, they just saw things differently. They're completely two different kind of styles and they decided to go two different ways. And, and I knew at that moment, you know, with Frank gone it wasn't gonna be what it could be. At least, at least for me, like I was a, a little bit of a unique story in that mix because I owned multiple other businesses. I was not there, you know, kinda like that, that that hustle sales call center environment is, you know, I want a 23-year-old dude who is willing to work his nuts off for 150 grand and it's great for him. It's great for me. It works out. But I wasn't that guy. I wasn't 23, I was a family guy. I owned multiple businesses, a 150 grand was like, I don't even know how you live on that. Like it, it was so, so far behind in my history and I was there for much, much bigger opportunity, which is fine until I realize, that it probably wasn't going to be, and I wasn't there as a fanboy. I, I mean, I love Grant. I mean, I disagree on, on several things. But I, I loved his energy, a lot of his books are unlocked a lot of the way, I think. So I, I pay homage there, you know, from like a man. I really respect, uh, what he is done. But I wasn't there to like, just work at for Grant and, and just say like, you know, look at me. I, I work for Grant Cardone. So, so in that moment, yes, there was a, obviously a deep gut wrenching feeling in my body of like, Nope, this is not right and I remember going in and chatting with the team and being like, Hey guys, like, it's just not gonna work out and we left. So no problem.

Caroline: 41:02

How old were you roughly?

Chaz Wolfe: 41:05

Was 32, three.

Caroline: 41:13

See, you're hitting another one. This, you hit like, so like the, like it's, I it's so fascinating, right? I didn't realize that that, that there, that things happen at predictable stages, right? Generally. And so that 31, 32 age is another one of those transition points where you're, you naturally, through growing and evolving, are starting to question, eh, is this really it? Is this really what I'm wanting to do? And here we are once again, like I'm pretty sure if we could like overlay, you're hitting every single one of them paying attention and allowing that to, you know, make a course correction. Of where you're spending your time, effort, and energy. Like this is so fascinating. Okay. All right. That's, thank you for elucidating, you know, elucidating that a little bit for me.'cause I,'cause I'm always curious, um, nerd. I'm totally, totally a data. Gotta love it. Well, I love, I, well I love it. And it's, it's just one part of the foundation, right? It's then it's like, and what do you do afterward? And what about the person and what about the family and what about the impact? Like, these are the things, okay, so then. Um, you move back to the Kansas City area, you continue to open new businesses and,

Chaz Wolfe: 42:24

I'm not done. Grateful, but not done right.

Caroline: 42:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Chaz Wolfe: 42:27

So in 2020 when we got back, it was right, right around COVID. I launched a sales training business. I mean, I've trained thousands of salespeople at this time, you know, my wife is like, Hey, I know you've been a business owner, but like, is this time for you to be, is like the time for you to do you like, what does Chaz really want to do? And sales training wasn't what I really wanted to do, but I, what I, I knew that I could start a business with that skill because I could I could you know, just put somebody in front of me, we'll talk sales process and I will add massive value. And so that's what I started doing, I started doing that in, you know, one-on-one settings, started working with teams, entrepreneurs, individual salespeople. I built a course, all kinds of fun stuff that. I knew wouldn't be forever, like I didn't want to be the next Grant Cardone, and I wasn't trying to be the next Grant Cardone, I knew that I had developed some skills and a way of thinking, because even when I was in corporate training sales, I was the only sales manager that had my own training process. Like literally broken down step by step, I was training my people, they asked me to come in and train new people. Like it's just kind of how my brain worked and it worked. And so like I just carried that with me and productized all that. And and it got me rolling. As I started to work with more and more business owners, I started to realize that, okay, so the, the need here isn't just sales, they've got need with their marketing, they got need with their operations, they got need with, you know, hiring people. And so my first. kind of go to with that wasn't like just to offer other services, it was, okay. my favorite book is Think and Grow Rich Chapter 10 Breaks Down the Mastermind Principle. I've been in a lot of group coaching sessions, but nobody's doing like this actual mastermind that Napoleon Hill talks about in chapter 10. not bring some of these clients together in a format to. We're, talking about this problem, that problem, this solution, that solution and we can all help each other. And, and so then therefore, gathering The Kings was born, it wasn't that Chaz is inner circle, come listen to Chaz and he can solve all your problems. It was, how can I gather the kings and the queens, of different industries and sit'em at the same table and I can facilitate it, but it doesn't have to be just about me because that guy over there might even have a bigger business than me and that gal over there has been in business a whole lot longer than me and we've all experienced different things'cause we've got different businesses and different industries and different, you know, history And believe it or not, we can actually unlock a lot of things for each other and if I can facilitate a real mastermind, like Napoleon Hill talks about, there's gotta be major value in that. So it launched in 2022 with seven people, and we was like, okay, here's, here's what it's gonna be, you know, I can't promise, I don't know exactly what the result's gonna be for you, but I can tell you exactly how I'm gonna facilitate and we're gonna make it look like chapter 10 in think and grow Rich and and these seven guys were like, all let's, let's, let's go.

Caroline: 45:03

That's awesome. That's awesome. And now that's continued to evolve and then from that has come, uh, the podcast came from that and then your monthly get togethers, and then that led to in-person things and then that expanded to family offerings and so,

Chaz Wolfe: 45:22

Yeah.

Caroline: 45:23

Yeah.

Chaz Wolfe: 45:24

Incredible life journey of its own right. And, and most businesses do, right? They've got, you know, their, their cyclical, Like they, they, they go through life just like we do. And so, gathering the kings now is in its fourth year of life. And so we're past the, what's that? The dip, the point where you, at the three year mark and you, and you decide whether you take it out back and kill it or not. We're past that, mark. We're all in. Um, we're gonna impact, you know, families, entrepreneur families specifically, For the long haul and, and how we do that might change over the course of time. Of course, just like most businesses, pivot and change and grow but as of right now, we get to do that in, you know, helping the entrepreneur unlock how the business machine works so that it doesn't own them like it used to own me so that they have a business and not a job so that they can spend some time with their family or their health or, you know, helping their community or, you know, serving in their church or whatever. And, ultimately that leaves a legacy. We wanna think in, in the next a hundred years, how do I control the next a hundred years? Um, well, I can't do that if I'm, if I'm owned by my business or my, my job.

Caroline: 46:28

I love that. Um, two more questions. One, how do people find you?

Chaz Wolfe: 46:33

Yeah. Gatheringthekings.com, all the stuff that we talk about inside the community, peer-to-peer mastermind, the family vacation that we do each summer is all there. So Gatheringthekings.com.

Caroline: 46:43

Awesome. And secondly. How do you define authentic success for you in this moment?

Chaz Wolfe: 46:50

I appreciate your perspective. You know, on this, you know, success is whatever is in the bat, in the eye of the beholder, as I say, right? for me, I wanna win in all areas. I wanna have businesses that are thriving and profitable and serving our team and our clients and our communities, I wanna have a family that is, rooted in love and faith and, and strength and commitment, I wanna have children that are resourceful and resilient and, and, competitive and, and ambitious, I wanna have a marriage that is, gonna last, and, and have people talk about it, about how we loved each other so well. I wanna have optimal health, I want to, to be the, in the best version of me. I wanna be in the best fitness version, the best mental version of me. And, and of course I want my faith to just be unbreakable. There's gonna be times where I still, you know, wrestle through things, but I think that that's part of it. That's what King David did constantly and so it's not about being perfect. It's about, wrestling through and having just an unshakeable faith.

Caroline: 47:54

I love it. I love it. Uh, thank you so very much for sharing your wisdom, sharing this, your nuggets. this, uh, tiny glimpse even to even more of your story. I definitely appreciate.

Chaz Wolfe: 48:07

Thank you so much for having me here. If you're still listening, give Caroline a five star review, you know, moving the things to get people like me on the, on the, on the show is a, is a big deal. So, we appreciate your support. Give, give Caroline love.

Caroline: 48:19

Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

48:21

Chaz, thank you for going beyond and letting us see the story underneath your success. You gave us a powerful picture of what it looks like to be grateful, but not done, ambitious and rooted for those listening, where are you feeling that tug, that sense that something needs to change. Where are you being invited to? Look honestly at your work, your family, your health, and your faith, and decide what winning in all areas actually means for you. Thanks for listening to your next success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.