0:06

What if the boldest moves you make in your career aren't the planned ones, but the ones that begin with simple curiosity.

Caroline: 0:13

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we're here, the more we miss out. And the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who've navigated big career transitions themselves so you can see what it's really like to make bold changes and feel inspired to create your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours.

1:17

Today's guest is Carlee Wolfe a leadership strategist, talent advisor and coach whose career spans Olympic and Paralympic programs, corporate, HR, and purpose-driven nonprofit work. Carlee has spent her career inside organizations that shape people from world class athletes to leaders navigating change to teams learning how to grow together. What makes her extra special is the way she combines curiosity, connection, and humanity with real world leadership insight. Her work centers upon helping people learn, adapt, grow, and build careers that feel aligned. She brings depth, warmth, and wisdom, and a perspective shaped by big moves, courageous pivots, and a lifelong love of community. In this episode, we talk about Carlee's career journey, how adults actually learn, why curiosity is an essential future of work skill, how AI is transforming development, and how bold moves shape who you become. If you've ever wondered whether you're allowed to pivot, experiment, or follow what you're curious about, this episode will help you see what's possible.

Caroline: 2:30

Welcome Carlee, to Your Next Success. I am so, so excited about our conversation today.

Carlee Wolfe: 2:36

Thanks for having me. I'm equally as excited.

Caroline: 2:39

Awesome. Well, as you know, I like to talk about careers, career transitions, and really helping to tell, you know, more beyond what's on a resume or on a LinkedIn. So we're gonna get to the awesome, amazing work that you do now. But if we could dial it back like way, way, way back. I'd love to know a little bit about, you know, your childhood. Like, where did you grow up, what were the types of things that fascinated you or that you really loved doing?

Carlee Wolfe: 3:05

Yeah. So I grew up in the Chicago area, so I always tell people I'm a Midwestern girl. Which largely just think, I think means, uh, I enjoy connecting with people and have some nicities. So I love to, to to share that. So yeah, I grew up in the Chicago area and things that I enjoyed, I mean, one was just being around people, like other kids in the neighborhood whether, whatever adventures we can kind of get into. Was something that I always enjoyed. There was a chapter of like riding bikes where you feel like you have a sense of freedom where you can like go places that you weren't able to go before. Like that was something that like sticks out in terms of things that I enjoyed. But largely, I just, I like being active. I like trying new things. Either like facilitated for my own interest or for mom. Trying to like get me, not getting me to go places, but like trying new stuff out and experiencing which was a lot of fun. So yeah, growing up just a lot of summers of running around the neighborhood and getting into different activities.

Caroline: 4:00

How about school subject wise at a young age, were there any particular subjects that you enjoyed more than others?

Carlee Wolfe: 4:07

Good question. School topics, I think, I mean, it kind of depended sometimes. There was like social studies, we were like learning about different cultures, which was kind of fascinating. Different parts of history. I'm not like a really good at like dates type of person. So I guess it depended on what history look like. You know, if we were taking a test on dates, then that probably wasn't my favorite. But if we're

Caroline: 4:31

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 4:31

Like what started some sort of historical event and what happened afterwards, like I love those types of things. Arts, gym, I basically like stuff outside of the classroom. Now I wouldn't consider myself an artistic person. That doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy artistic projects.

Caroline: 4:47

What I'm hearing is, maybe there was like a kinesthetic learning kind of enjoyment where you like, liked learning while moving or having a little bit more freedom than to be sitting in a chair. And the dates thing is so interesting.'Cause I was like that too. It's like I could understand the concepts. I knew it was up. But if you tell me was it 1700 or 1900, like I don't know. And I came to realize later, after diving into this and making the Next Success Method part of it, you know, who are you? What do you do best? There's an assessment that I help as underpinning for people to understand their natural abilities, and number memory just wasn't poured into me, and so for the longest time I thought like, oh, I'm a horrible mom. I don't remember what time my kid was born. I don't remember what year that really important thing in history happened, and I might not remember my phone number while trying to leave a message. And it's okay.

Carlee Wolfe: 5:39

Good to know there's a thing of around the number memory because I always also tell people I'm the worst with birth dates. So I,

Caroline: 5:46

Yes.

Carlee Wolfe: 5:47

Putting it in my calendar, but largely it's just not something that sits there. In fact, I have a friend from high school that we're still really good friends today. She has since pulled back on this a little bit, just'cause I think life and maybe she thinks, you know, I've given you enough training wheels over the years, which is that for our high school friends, she would send a reminder. She's like, remember it's Steph's birthday today and i'm like, thank you, thank you. So

Caroline: 6:09

That's.

Carlee Wolfe: 6:10

over here on dates.

Caroline: 6:12

Yeah. I get it completely. If there's not a trigger that comes up in my, now I'll remember my kids' birthdays, you know, my husband's birthday pretty much. But other than that, yeah, I mean, really well, and it's just not one that I was given. And that's okay. I have others, you know, and I'm sure, and I know you have plenty of other things too. But when I did see that, you know, diagnostic kind of like criteria, it was like, oh, ah, it is me and it's okay. You know? So, yeah. Okay. So you mentioned something about your mom. I'm curious, like as you were growing up, sometimes the type of work people's parents do it influences them in some sort of way. What were your parents doing for work when you were growing up?

Carlee Wolfe: 6:55

Yeah. My dad's in taxes, has been CPA CFP his whole career. I think when I was really little, well, not, I think, I know when I was really little, he went into an office and worked for a company. But at a certain point when I was younger, he also cut over to do his own thing. So run his own tax as a sole business owner of, of tax services and my mom,

Caroline: 7:17

So he had that number memory then?

Carlee Wolfe: 7:20

Yes. For sure. Although I still don't know how good at dates he was like, did he remember everyone's birthday? I don't know, but like maybe,

Caroline: 7:28

Maybe he was just busy, like, you know, sometimes people are so focused that everything else is just everything else.

Carlee Wolfe: 7:35

Like maybe numbers. There's like, a there, right? not old numbers treated the same. Maybe in that

Caroline: 7:40

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 7:43

So much to unpack in the numbers game.

Caroline: 7:45

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 7:46

And then my mom, it was kind of a mix of stuff, so she certainly was parent and was sometimes, at home parent. There were also times where she worked part-time. She was really mission-driven and so worked for places like the American Cancer Society. And so yeah, she kind of went in and out of that as long as I was growing up and certainly my sister who's about seven years younger than I am, but yeah, so she was kind of doing a little bit of both. Some of it was work passion, some of it's also thinking about, you know, insurance and having balance. And so it was very much, you know, kind of a conversation based on, I think, how old we were, what was needed in the house at that time, and where she wanted to contribute. But she also did a ton with my dad. My dad was not a sole business owner by himself. We all helped. I know my mom did a ton in that space. I could help where I could, like I think I used to stuff envelopes when used to do make like mailers and mail. But yeah, she helped a lot with that too.

Caroline: 8:36

Yeah, my dad was a superintendent at one time for schools, and I loved like copiers, copying stuff, whatever. It was like newsletter time.

Carlee Wolfe: 8:46

You're making things happen.

Caroline: 8:47

Yeah, like I was gonna be there anyway, waiting for him to finish whatever it was. So it was like when I had something to do that was kind of fun and got to use tools or supplies that weren't normal to like a regular classroom. Yeah, let's go. That's cool. Now how about like, middle school, high school. How did your interest shift and evolve as you were growing through that?

Carlee Wolfe: 9:11

It's interesting. I feel like I follow like, just general continuum of as you get older you seem to become more specialized and not as like wide ranging part of just what's available to us time, all those things.

Caroline: 9:23

Yes.

Carlee Wolfe: 9:24

I think that as I got older. Started honing in on more of like what were the things that revolved around the school schedule. So I'll jump to high school, which is I was very involved in a lot of different things In high school. I was in marching band, I played tennis, I was manager helping the basketball team, I was in track and field. So I did a lot of stuff in high school. And also just generally connecting with friends and adventuring around the Chicago area, especially during the summer. But that's kind of where my interest went at kind of like in that progression of life.

Caroline: 9:58

Yeah. How about school subject wise? Did anything start to be more interesting to you than other things?

Carlee Wolfe: 10:06

I'd say a little bit of similar, like anything kind of in the social sciences arena was always interesting. in our case, we were able to actually use music as a class, so that was nice. And there were a few leadership classes that I was able to do which were kind of cool.

Caroline: 10:24

In your high school they had leadership classes?

Carlee Wolfe: 10:26

Yeah, they were tied to the like physical education class. Like you can kind of, it was like a program where you can like learn to be a leader in the class. And so that was a, I think like a semester long that you could do. So that was kind of cool. I enjoy reading, but it took me time to like figure out what reading or what I enjoyed about reading or how I could find reading that was good for me.

Caroline: 10:48

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 10:49

So there were few classes in high school where I had teachers I think that really leaned into like of what is your area of interest. And then how do we kind of get reading in that under, philosophy. And so there were a couple of classes. One that was literally just a reading class like you would read in the class and take like vocabulary along the way. You know, there'd be some like curriculum, but I really enjoyed that too'cause I got to tap into things that I liked. And I also felt like I was pushing myself, like learning something like, oh, I'm like reading all in this class.

Caroline: 11:19

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 11:19

Sound so silly, but when you're busy and if it's not your first hobby, that tends to like fall a little bit lower on the list. And then you have to read a lot just in general with schoolwork. So to add that on as a hobby. I enjoyed that.

Caroline: 11:32

Were there any particular, like genres of books that you were fascinated by?

Carlee Wolfe: 11:37

I mean, in general I enjoy, like as I'm like reflecting on our conversation.

Caroline: 11:41

The social study? Yeah. Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 11:42

I think just like social, literally not like storytelling. Like I enjoy hearing about people and kind of their journey in life, like what got them to where they are today or what was sort of like that pivotal moment that they went through or experienced of it's like a big part of who they are. So today, the books that I love are, are mixes of those things. my, one of my favorite books of all time is Listening is an Act of Love.

Caroline: 12:07

Oh.

Carlee Wolfe: 12:08

It's very similar to like The Moth, would be maybe another popular one, but it's a collection of stories. And I really enjoy that. In fact, and I have one here, by The Moth. It's called All These Wonders. Someone actually just gave this book to me recently, so that's next time my reading list. I just think the human experience, I mean we, all the human experiences is on one hand very connected and relatable. And on the other hand also just very different'cause we all walk in different ways of moving about the world, literally from your location to the people that are in your life to your interests.

Caroline: 12:38

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 12:38

I'm just a big nerd about those things.

Caroline: 12:41

Same.

Carlee Wolfe: 12:42

Those are the things that had me interested back then. Yeah.

Caroline: 12:45

I could resonate with that so much, and I have not heard of those books before, so now I'm like, Ooh, I can't,

Carlee Wolfe: 12:52

Yeah.

Caroline: 12:52

Can't wait to look him up and get him.

Carlee Wolfe: 12:54

Podcast too, so you can also listen.

Caroline: 12:56

Oh, wow.

Carlee Wolfe: 12:56

My favorites.'Cause um, We haven't talked about this, I should say I live in Baltimore, Maryland. They run a series out here called The Stoop. So in Baltimore, a lot of the houses, they're in what's called row homes. And so they have these like marbles, staircases that go up to the front door, which is called stoop. So people sometimes stoop, which is you go sit outside and connect. So stoop story.

Caroline: 13:16

Oh, that's cool.

Carlee Wolfe: 13:18

They pick different themes and people tell their stories against those.

Caroline: 13:22

Oh, I love it.

Carlee Wolfe: 13:23

It's very cool.

Caroline: 13:23

Thank you.

Carlee Wolfe: 13:24

Yeah

Caroline: 13:24

Thank you for sharing that. Okay. So as you were going through high school, then how did you decide like that you wanted to go to college or what you wanted to try to study for college or where to go to college? Like how did that all come about? Because you went away from the Chicago area.

Carlee Wolfe: 13:42

Yes. I ended up going to Arizona State, which is very far away from Chicago and very different, although at the time I didn't think it would be very different. I was like, oh, Tempe, which is where ASU is located. Tempe is like near Phoenix, and that's like my suburb near Chicago. It's like the same. Not at all. Like the temperature's different, the lifestyle's different, all of these things. And I think that that just was my big first step into appreciating like different cultures and communities and ways of living. I moved around a bunch and every place has something special to offer. I think it was like really that chapter to like, figure it out because it wasn't easy. So why did I go down or to your questions about school. I think, I was fortunate enough where most people went on to like their next step in education. And I say fortunate enough, just in the sense of like, it was just kind of a part of our environment, our being, and I'm not, you know, I think everyone has different paths that they can take in that. And especially now, like way of learning is like so different from when I went to school.

Caroline: 14:35

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 14:36

But for me, I wanted to, I don't know, in my head I was like, I wanna go to a big school, but I still wanna have like small classes. Arizona State had that you could do lectures, but also some core classes were much smaller. That was important to me. We went to visit on spring break, so I don't know anyone that leaves the Chicago area in March, which is tends to still be wintery and goes down to Arizona and it's the best month of the year.

Caroline: 15:00

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 15:01

Oh, I could live here. So I think there was a draw with that. And I don't know. I just thought that there were like some unique possibilities of being able to get into student life out there. I mentioned as a marching band, I felt like that was an achievable goal to be able to continue with that. So I just took the big hop to move out there and to make that that choice.

Caroline: 15:21

And were you in the band there too?

Carlee Wolfe: 15:23

Yes, a longer story, but the short version is I did it my freshman year and senior year, so I took a little break in between.

Caroline: 15:29

Oh wow. What did you play?

Carlee Wolfe: 15:33

Freshman year I was in the drum line, and then senior year I played saxophone.

Caroline: 15:37

Oh, so cool.

Carlee Wolfe: 15:39

It takes up a lot of time.

Caroline: 15:40

I get it. I was in the band for two years when I went to college. But at the time I started in chemical engineering and I was like, man, I just can't, like, I just can't do this practice all the time and have time for my school and residence life and all the leadership things that I was getting involved in. And I was like, man, something's gotta go. Although I loved that musical side expressing that the kinesthetic, you know, engagement, the comradery. Like there is something about, almost like a community that the band family has. Although, was it super hot in the uniforms because like that it's beautiful weather and I can't imagine having a band uniform on with that, not breathable material in such a hot environment.

Carlee Wolfe: 16:26

This is one of those things that you're like, well, back when I was in band, we had to wear the uniforms.'Cause today they largely, let's see, I think they have uniforms, but they have also like t-shirts and different ways of being out on the

Caroline: 16:37

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 16:37

Yep. We were in full-on wool uniforms in, I don't know, 110 degree desert heat. So yeah, it's not, I don't know. It was a sport. I remember. So you used to take this walk from, what was called Palm Walk. So this like a sidewalk that runs up and down, like sort of the middle of campus. And we basically walked from a start zone to the stadium. And so you'd walk Palm Walk and there would be like parents or volunteers that were there and they'd like throw these bags of peanuts at us. They're supposed to be for the stands. And I'm like, I don't really like peanuts. Why are they like giving these to us? And they're like, oh, well they have salt and it like helps with the sweat and all this stuff. And I was like, this is like, what's happening? Like what are we doing here? So, I don't know, you just figure it out, I guess is my point. But it

Caroline: 17:22

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 17:23

Very hot and they have gotten smarter since I was there, which is we don't need to do this to kids. Like there's no point.

Caroline: 17:27

Exactly.

Carlee Wolfe: 17:29

No one's judging the uniform.

Caroline: 17:31

Right. Now, you went and studied abroad also. Like, you are just like so brave. I feel like, to move from, you know, your family, everything that you know, to then go nearly pretty much by yourself to a university and then how did this whole study abroad thing go and tell us where you went?

Carlee Wolfe: 17:50

Yeah. What's always fun about these is you and I are reflecting on something that's happened in my past. So I get to like, tell the highlight real. Doesn't mean that all these like big leaps, like didn't come with their own struggles and figuring things out. Like, for example, at ASU I really struggled for a bit of time to like figure out and find my place, now at all, like netted out or worked out in the end. And that's like now a part of like who I am and how I move in the world. But they're tough, like big leaps come with risk and with it can be like lonely and it can be difficult. And so, study abroad fortunately was not that case. It like started off just like we all were there. I went to Sydney, Australia. We were there for a semester and I think everyone was just like, we're just here for this amount of time. Let's connect. And so if I think about all my moves and all my, like, let's jump into this. The study abroad experience was definitely like community was built right away because we were all oriented again, like that short period of time in this very special place. And I love that. And that opened up so many things for me too. Like around travel, like I love traveling. And this becomes a part about people and culture, right? You just learn by traveling, like people's stories and different ways of living, and that was a huge part of the study abroad experience. And loved it, loved it, loved it.

Caroline: 18:56

And then as you were getting ready to graduate, how did you decide or choose your first job after graduation?

Carlee Wolfe: 19:04

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't have like a very sparkling, intentional answer other than I needed to do an internship to graduate and so I had to find an internship and I looked in a lot of different places. And one of the areas at the time that you could find internships was through an organization called the Princeton Review. And I enjoy sport. I still do and enjoyed it at the time. And the United States Olympic, at the time it was the United States Olympic Committee. It's now the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee. But at the time, they were one of the best internships in the country. You could go there.

Caroline: 19:36

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 19:37

You live on campus, work for a sport. And I was like, okay, how do I do that? I was lucky enough, I had some experience that one of the sports in this case it was USA volleyball was looking for. So they hired me on as an intern. So I got to move to Colorado Springs, Colorado and start an internship, which then worked its way into a job. So the things that interest me at the time. In addition to like human stories and connection were also development. I had started to see, I didn't know what it was called at the time, but just started to see some things like leadership development emerge, whether it's through the, you know, sports I did like ASU, whether it was my job that I had in college. These things were emerging and so I just happened to fall into the space doing coaching education at USA volleyball, and so that's how I got my first job.

Caroline: 20:21

That's so cool. So you designed classes, seminars, like how was the platform to help? You were coaching coaches or like, help me understand that whole,

Carlee Wolfe: 20:32

Yeah, so coaching education, think of it as in a lot of people's professions, you have education that sort of can like certify you or add some credibility to your credentialing in this case it was coaches, but think of any profession. So we were providing courses and certifications for volleyball coaches. Everything from, I'll call it like first line of entry point, which is like, how do you actually build like ethics into your coaching? How do you

Caroline: 20:57

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 20:58

Have some baseline understanding of what a coach is and like who do you wanna be as a coach? So that was kind of the initial course. And if you were coaching volleyball at the time, that was a required course that you had to go to, just to kind of get in. And then we built from there. So everything from I wanna continue to learn about the sport and like early on and maybe we'll call it like beginner coaching. All the way up to coaches who, that were in the pipeline for the national team program. So basically coaches that help coach international competition or that would go to the Olympics or Paralympics. So I was just on the back end, it was my first job. I was administrator so people would sign up for classes, I'd send you your books, those types of things. But I also, at the time, this is gonna sound ridiculous'cause it's like really old. But I was early on in actually getting our course, some of our courses online. So things like. Zoom or any of the million online course things that we have did not exist. So I was kinda snitching together like video, we're gonna use a webcam and then we're gonna use this thing and run the class.

Caroline: 21:57

But still that's,

Carlee Wolfe: 21:58

That's kinda cool.

Caroline: 22:00

But it's fascinating and it's also so foundational that you were doing that, you know, nearly 20 years ago and that you were making it a thing. And now that the whole learning development and all that, I know it took off as your career developed and grew, but it was so cool that even in that first experience, you were finding this little niche that you could make really amazing contributions and kind of help out and see, and learn best practices.'cause like, I mean, Olympians come on. They're just held in such high esteem. Okay, so then that transitioned into a longer tenure of working for the Olympic Committee. That's so cool. So you were helping make sure that there was certifications and pathways for coaches in the sport. Did you have direct relationships or links from some of the Olympics that went on while you were there?

Carlee Wolfe: 22:51

So when I worked at USA volleyball, I was primarily serving USA volleyball and the coaches that were in that system. And then I moved and worked for the United States Olympic and Paralympic committee. And during that time, my role was really servicing employees of the USOPC, so folks that, in some cases were operations, so putting on the Olympics or Paralympics or other related international sports or in training or in support of an athlete's pursuit to elite performance. So ton with the employees of, but we did intersect with different athletes in that we use sport as kind of the metaphor to teach leadership. So for example, you wanna learn about better listening skills, we use the paralympic sport of goal ball. And so if you don't know what that is, I always encourage people to YouTube that because it's a very fascinating sport. It's for people hearing disabilities, vision disabilities. And they're like listening for a medicine ball with like a little bit of a bell in it. And so we would use that sport because one, nobody really knew what it was. So it was like a new shared experience for people. But two, when you're in this mode, because you have to wear these goggles and so you can't see anything.'Cause that's to even the playing field, everyone does. Even if you have a vision issue, disability with your vision, it's yours might be different than mine. So you have to wear goggles. So you can't see anything. You're just listening for this bell and it is wildly disorienting. But also an amazing learning tool.'Cause again, it's a shared experience. You're disoriented and you have opportunity to reflect. So, that would be an example of like interfacing with athletes and coaches for programs. But also I think maybe about this, which is, yeah, we also, depending on what your role was at the USOPC, you could also go to games. So I supported the 2008 Beijing Olympics and I was stationed in San Jose, California to run what was called team processing. Basically, when you see athletes in their podium wear they have to go get that from somewhere that's,

Caroline: 24:44

Ah.

Carlee Wolfe: 24:44

Something different today, but team processing. So I was stationed there and then for the Vancouver Paralympics, so Vancouver, Canada in 2010. I was up there and worked the friends and family desk. So yes, sometimes you would get special assignment, which was super rewarding.

Caroline: 24:59

That's so cool.

Carlee Wolfe: 25:00

Yeah.

Caroline: 25:00

And then around this time you decide you wanna go back to school. How did that come around?

Carlee Wolfe: 25:07

Yeah, I think I had been thinking a little bit about what I wanted to do next. So at ASU, I fell into the camp of I really didn't know what I wanted to do, and eventually it became a thing of, alright, what can I do to finish my degree because I can't just keep paying for school forever. So, at that point in my life, I had moved, I started thinking about it when I worked at the USOPC and that I had moved to a different career in Apollo Education Group. So I was more in a corporate position now, and it just became, part of it was like, how do I continue to learn in the HR space? The other part of it became more of like a personal goal of I wanted to have a degree that kind of sat a little bit more in the space of where I thought my career was going and where I'd like it to go. And so that's where that master's degree came up, with opportunity to go to University of Illinois and was doing what's called Human Resources Development. So it's kind of a mix of, it's a ton of what I do. Organizational development.

Caroline: 25:57

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 25:58

Development learning. It's kind of a mix of that. So fortunate enough to be able to do that. I think it was like just over a two year program.

Caroline: 26:06

And were you still working at the time?

Carlee Wolfe: 26:08

So I was working full-time. Yep.

Caroline: 26:10

Oh wow. So was this one of those like executive kind of programs where you just go for some weekends or was it primarily online or how did it work with you working or were you in the Chicago area at that time or? Well.

Carlee Wolfe: 26:23

I had moved back to Phoenix and was working at Apollo Education Group. So yeah, I was working full-time. It wasn't an executive program and it was year long, so you had a spring, a summer and a fall semester. So sometimes maybe the course load wasn't as big. Maybe you had one class versus two classes. But yeah, I mean generally, I would stay back at work and log in, for the session to begin and go to my class. It was online so you could, you know, connect from wherever. We had some classes that we attended and then we had some work that we did on our own. So, yeah, it wasn't easy. I definitely took a break from, I used to for about 15 almost 20 years. I coached volleyball actually on the side, and I took a year and a half or two years off for school because I just couldn't, it was impossible to like have all that stuff going on at once.

Caroline: 27:11

Absolutely. Yeah, I was wondering, I'm like, where was your actual like, life outside of school and work and when you're going to school and working, there's not really much. You probably just had time for sleep and then getting up and doing it again.

Carlee Wolfe: 27:25

I mean, it's important to for sure, but so I still saw people, but it was different, right? I had to like think more intentionally about where I was going and what I was doing.'cause you also couldn't miss class really? So you've been thinking about traveling for work, I'd have to largely, I didn't fly at night. I would fly in the mornings because I miss school. So there was definitely some intentionality to it and I would be lying if I said I didn't. I wasn't excited to be also done then when it was over.

Caroline: 27:50

I bet. Anything is kind of doable as long as you see the purpose of why, and you know there's an end and it's helping you for some greater goal. You can handle a little bit of time.

Carlee Wolfe: 28:01

Absolutely.

Caroline: 28:02

So at the Apollo place then you're still continuing on with like learning and development, those kind of things, or as you're working while you're getting this awesome degree, what were those?

Carlee Wolfe: 28:13

Some of those pieces, but then I was really getting into more of change management transformation. Leading change, those types of topics. Apollo at the time was going through a tremendous amount of change, both in industry as well as the organization itself. And so I always tell people I was like literally running around. There was so much going on. So to that, and that's part of why I joined, was to be a part of transformation, but to really, build that capability within my skillset. I was doing some transformation at the USOPC, but not to the scale of Apollo. It was a holding company, had multiple entities under it, 30,000 plus employees.

Caroline: 28:50

Wow.

Carlee Wolfe: 28:51

So much more complicated than the USOPC. So that's what I was doing there a lot more OD work.

Caroline: 29:37

How did you decide or how did you know when you wanted to pursue something different beyond there?

Carlee Wolfe: 29:43

When I joined Apollo, there is like, not just the amount of transformation, but just the sentiment of where education was at the time. And so I, I was there for five years. I feel like I did a lot in the transformation. I could see where education had gone during the time that I was there. And so just started to feel like a natural conclusion of what do I wanna do next? And because I had been working in so much change, I was fortunate enough I got to work with a lot of consultants and vendors and partners. And so I started thinking, okay, like is this a good time for me in my career to do something else, right? And now I've done non-profit. Now I've done for-profit. I wonder if like, consulting could be interesting. So that's where I got into consulting. I moved to an organization called Wright Point Consulting. They're out of Chicago. They've been since been acquired and part of a larger org at this time. But I got to help build out the change in transformation space there. So that was kind of cool joining consulting, but also still building something to be able to ultimately work with a lot of different brands and different business problems. So the natural conclusion of Apollo was like what's really next are gonna kind of help.

Caroline: 30:47

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 30:48

Accelerate how I think about exposure and the type of work I'm doing.

Caroline: 30:53

And then that led into something else even fascinating. So how did then that the right point experience then lead to your next role?

Carlee Wolfe: 31:03

I think, if you talk to anyone that works in consulting, I think it's like either it's for you because you love being a guest in someone's house or maybe it's not your vibe because you want to be in your own house. And I think I just started missing that longer term play of impact and connections and community. So started to find that kind of sitting in my being combined with, I'd started my career in sport and I was like, can I do sport again? So that began the search, which led me to an opportunity at Under Armour, and they're headquartered in Baltimore, Maryland. And so that's when I moved out to Baltimore. And so had a chapter there, I'm happy. Yeah. Every pivot has come with like some sort of, I think, transformation opportunity, big change opportunity and at Under Armour, they were going through a lot of change at the time as well. Had grown up, very strong brand. And then they were in the middle of asking themselves, okay, like, who do we wanna be next? So,

Caroline: 31:54

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 31:55

I mean, that jump too.

Caroline: 31:57

That's cool. And then did that intersect with COVID or did you go to your next role?

Carlee Wolfe: 32:03

So I always tell people from one COVID industry to another. Which is that, earlier in the COVID days, retail was like really impacted by things people didn't know. Like there was a holding, right? I'm not gonna spend money, we don't know where things are gonna go. Plus retail, a lot of brick and mortar. So you have like real estate that people aren't going into. So at the time, and I say that at the time because, what happened probably soon after I left, not just Under Armour, but a lot of other retailers, particular those in sport leisure. Then people were like, why am I gonna wear work pants to work when I'm just on camera? So then that industry shifted, but at the time it was impacted, I, with that made a hop to another industry impacted by COVID. I think that maybe I was taking inventory of like, who's more impacted. So I moved to hospitality, which if at that time, so December of 2020, if you could imagine, we were still very, very deep in where we're at. So Hyatt was down like quite significantly, like the corporate office, probably 70%. Hotels were open, you know, a handful of folks. But for me, the idea of getting into hospitality was very interesting and their culture was really shining through in the interview process which was here's how we're taking care of people during this time. Like all we're asking people about in hotels is like, do you feel safe? Do you feel like you're cared for? And for me that like really resonated on a culture standpoint. And I wanted to like work in an environment like that that was really important for me and really important for me during that time where community and connection was key, even though we were still doing it virtually. So yeah, that's when I made my shift to Hyatt which is where I'm at today.

Caroline: 33:36

That's so cool. I love these threads because, you know, from a young age you loved that community connection. Then there was this huge sport influence and you've weaved that and the connection all together throughout and continuing to get your own stuff and then training and leadership development and coach like so, so, so cool. With that, you know, you've trained a lot of adults. How do you help, like what's the best practice for adults to be able to learn at work? Like, what are some of those things? It's not a traditional classroom anymore, right? So, it's now something tied to someone's livelihood and job, but what have you found to be some of the best delivery methods or how to get people on board that they need to even learn something new?

Carlee Wolfe: 34:21

I think it's probably, I've seen like two big things. One is where we have to meet learning where we're at today. Which is people, I mean, take a look at anytime you're walking down the street or you're in a park or you're on an airplane, people are on their phones and often times we're like consuming learning type of content. And that could also be listening, right? So how do we meet people where they are? I think it's through those sort of like forums. Opportunities into incent or support learning. So that'd be one. The other part is I still think experiences and experience connection is important. I go back to that USOPC example I used of goalball, right? You have this like

Caroline: 34:58

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 34:59

Experience that you're doing together. You're all feeling a little bit uncomfortable, but you're learning through it. Like I think those are pervasive or like through like the classroom and forward. So I think those are maybe like modalities or ways to learn, but I think in organizations it's about what's also the value of learning. Does the organization pick up when people are building and learning new skills and applying them in in roles? And I think we're at a critical point of this when we think and look towards something like AI.'Cause these are skills and capabilities that people need to learn and to grow in. And so how is the organization supporting that? How is they rewarding that? How are they recognizing that? How are they clear in the past so people have access and ability to learn? So longer answer to your question, but I think as adults, there's ways that we learn and connect. And then I think there's the organizational part of how do we support that learning and infuse that in the culture to continue to encourage people to learn.'Cause it's super critical.

Caroline: 35:54

It's super important. Yeah. And so bringing up AI, how do you. How do you utilize that effectively? I mean, is it just allowing people to have AI access to try to figure out how to streamline their work or can that be part of training, coaching, developing not just leaders, but also everyone.

Carlee Wolfe: 36:14

I think an AI strategy in an organization includes all of those components. So one might be how do you enable workforce? How can we train people on AI skills? How can we provide them the tools so that there's AI equity and that people can apply them in their jobs? How do we create space and time for people to learn and to create an environment where they feel comfortable? I think right now there's a lot of fear around AI. And so what is your organization's position and how do you support people as they're even emerging and coming up and having hopefully AI curiosity of how it can work in their roles. To your other question around how can it apply, I definitely think it's helpful for people to start to think about where AI can augment what you're doing. So in the learning and development space, I think there's a lot of ways. There's skills assessments that are emerging and popping up that are available for folks to use. There's AI coaching bots, right? Being able to actually have some consult and support from an AI tool to AI like supplemental around learning. So think about you go to like a typical like listening or class program type consumption. But maybe I have an AI companion that's like asking me questions or debriefing on what I just learned. So that's just on the learning and development side. But AI in general, I think is just on the verge of making impact in our workplaces and communities. But certainly learning and getting in, I think is a good place for people to start.

Caroline: 37:36

Absolutely. Now, you mentioned something about like the AI coaching bots. I've always been a little bit confused, like, okay, if AI isn't actually a feeling, you know, a sentiment kind of thing, then how well does it actually coach or precoach. How does that fit in from a coaching bot to also a human interaction or maybe a human oversight as maybe a new leader is learning? How to facilitate a performance kind of conversation or something of that, this sort.

Carlee Wolfe: 38:03

That's why I love the term augment because I don't think it's intended to be a replacement of. To your point, AI is never gonna have like empathy as an example.

Caroline: 38:12

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 38:13

When I think about one, just in general, AI coaching. I think it's incredible because today a lot of coaching sits with executives or those who have access to whether it be financial means or support to do those things. So it's outta reach for a lot of people. So one, I think

Caroline: 38:27

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 38:28

Is a point of entry that a lot of people can join and be a part of. So I think that that's incredible. When we talk about augmenting that, then that capability, I think it's still, how is this sitting in like a suite of tools that I have, like maybe I'm still connecting with a peer. So you use the example like, let's use the example of preparing for your year end, which you started with. Maybe I'm connecting with a peer, like, Hey, I'm thinking about this thing. What do you think? Maybe I talk to my AI coach about, Hey, I wanna ask for a promotion. And I'm like trying to figure out the best way to do that. What would be three ways to think about that? And can you help practice with me so I can like build my confidence in practicing that. What might be, if my boss poses my idea of promotion, what would be your ways to, or to have me help think through like how to work through that counter argument. And then maybe the other arm of my tooling is actually like self-practice. So I'm just giving an example of what the augmentation looks like.'Cause I don't think AI replaces. I think it's a tool that now more people can actually put in their tool belt. And I think that that's worth exploring. Now there's always caveats, right? Like how are you, where are you? I mean, there's a million vendors, like how are you vetting? And

Caroline: 39:31

Yeah, how do you pick and then if,

Carlee Wolfe: 39:34

Like a whole different,

Caroline: 39:35

Yeah.

Carlee Wolfe: 39:36

But as it relates to, let's just assume it's a good tool. Let's assume it's keeping your data safe. I think it's worth exploring for sure.

Caroline: 39:43

And also like if it's something that you have access to through your work, is somebody else reading those conversations later. Like, you'd be like, my boss is really difficult to work with. Does somebody else see that message? Like, how do you, where's the boundary? You know?

Carlee Wolfe: 39:59

Well it's an interesting boundary.'Cause I think when we have to start with where are there boundaries to begin with, right? Because at work, depending on your organization, I think it's fair to assume that everything can be reviewed or looked at. And so I think there is a little bit, this goes back to the fear factor. I think there is a little bit of trust that goes in there, which is if my organization says it's not tracking my personal input in a coaching device as they are with my email, then that's like something to consider. But I think it's also the other balance, which is if I'm asking my coaching bot for support, you know, those would be things that are fall in the work arena, right? Either I'm having conversations

Caroline: 40:34

Absolutely.

Carlee Wolfe: 40:34

With it or I'm teaming someone about it. Right? This is somewhere. So how do you know, take that and have confidence. But the last thing I'll share too is with organizations to your point. Then how do you communicate, like what is being collected or not collected or being done with it so that you can give some sense of safety, psychological safety or support from the people that work in your company. I think just share.

Caroline: 40:56

Yeah. And I think also if there is a problem that needs to be addressed regardless if it's with the employee or with a manager or something else, it's an opportunity for even more training and even more development on all those sides it is. You had said something about, in some other interviews I watched, that the future belongs to the curious worker. What does that mean for you?

Carlee Wolfe: 41:15

I think curiosity is just such an important, I don't know if you call it a competency or a skill, but just remaining curious. I think the future is pretty gray. Like there's a lot of gray in the future, especially as it relates to work. And so remaining curious about what's possible. I talk about curiosity as it relates to people's careers and where they can go next. A lot of times, you know, just in life we go throughout, we have our routines, right? Day to day we go and what we have in our lives is the purview, the experiences that we've had with the people around us and staying curious. Starts to open up that aperture even further, so curiosity leads to possibilities. Curiosity leads to innovation. Curiosity leads to growth. And so I think where people can remain curious, only yields better results, opportunities, connections, down the road from that. So when we think about it from learning, it's just it's asking the questions, it's being curious about what don't you know, it's being curious why you're scared about something. It's being curious about, well, what can I do? There's just so much that curiosity can facilitate. And so I just love it.

Caroline: 42:19

I love it as well. Now, how do people work with you now? I know you're part of a huge organization, you have lots of employees that you support. But how do people connect with you? How do they work with you?

Carlee Wolfe: 42:30

So I'm always happy to connect with folks on LinkedIn. We've spent a lot of topics today from leadership and learning and development, community and support. And so largely what I would say is I'm gonna hone in on the curiosity part, which is that there are oftentimes that people are curious about their careers and where they wanna go next. And that's where I can intersect and help people, into pull on that curiosity and kind of help navigate what's next for them. So happy to connect in that space. That's like a direct way I can partner. But also back to the other topics, I'm always happy to connect and learn because I'm curious about other people's stories. I'm curious about what they've been learning. It's a shared dialogue. And we're all in one big community moving us forward. So I totally believe in connecting and happy to do so.

Caroline: 43:14

Yes, and I am just so glad that we connected as well. So, as you know, I'm big on success. Redefining success and authentic success. And authentic success is however you define it. So I'm really curious, after your steps in your career and your outlook and your curiosity. How do you define authentic success for you in this moment?

Carlee Wolfe: 43:36

I think for me, authentic success is do I feel like I'm adding value to the communities that I serve in? And that's everything from my employer to I serve on nonprofit boards I volunteer. Like, am I adding value in those spaces? Do I feel good about where I'm aligned and do I feel like I'm growing? Like, to me, that's success. And I think that that takes shape every single day. Maybe I should start taking inventory of those three things, but I think that that's generally where I try to come from at this point in my life.

Caroline: 44:08

Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much, Carlee, for all your insight, all your wisdom. I'm just super excited for our conversation. I can't wait to see what you do next.

Carlee Wolfe: 44:17

Thank you. I appreciate the dialogue. It's fun to kind of pull it back a little bit and see the decisions and steps will we made along the way. Because the past helps us understand where we're at today, but I think inspires even more curiosity for what's to come. So I appreciate the time and for the listeners for joining us. So thank you.

Caroline: 44:33

Thank you for sharing those behind the scenes, because often you know what's on a resume. it's really hard to understand those behind the scenes, or for people considering big, bold moves and you've made several of them and they've worked out for you. You know, maybe there were some challenges and things to overcome, but for the most part, your career has just continued to blossom and grow, and your impact has done the same. So thank you for sharing that here.

Carlee Wolfe: 44:57

Well, and I'll add one more thing, which is I don't think any big, like bold move or even some moves like comes without some of the challenges. But the challenges are what creates the learnings, which helps shape who we are. And then facilitates even more curiosity and bold moves down the road. And so I say lean in and I say lean in with like full openness. Right? Because some things will be as easy as they sound and some things will come with surprises. But be curious about the surprises and be curious about the successes.'Cause it all plays into our stories.

Caroline: 45:29

Yes, yes. Exactly. But we get to live it, right? We get to live out the once upon a time, and I love that. So thank you again. I wish you all the best. I'd love to have you back some other time.

Carlee Wolfe: 45:41

Perfect. Thank you.

Caroline: 45:43

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.