Caroline 0:04

What if your next opportunity doesn't look like the one you plan for? Sometimes the detours end up being the best part of the story, and what you lose on paper can become what you gain in purpose. This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we're here, the more we miss out. And the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job, search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who've navigated big career transitions themselves so you can see what it's really like to make bold changes and feel inspired to create your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours. Today's guest is Dr. Danny Brassell often called "Jim Carrey with a PhD". Danny has delivered over 3,500 keynotes and trainings across the world, helping people discover the joy of learning, leading, and connecting through story. He's authored 19 books, including Leadership Begins With Motivation and Misfits and Crackpots, and he's the co-founder of the Well-Crafted Story Workshop where he helps entrepreneurs and organizations turn speaking into one of their most powerful client lead sources. What makes Danny unforgettable isn't just his humor or his energy, It's his ability to help people see that communication isn't about performing, it's about connecting. In this conversation, we trace Danny's incredible journey from stuttering student to teacher, journalist, speaker, and coach, and the lessons he learned about resilience, reinvention, and the power of story. We also dive into practical ways to overcome the fear of speaking, connect through authenticity, and transform even your failures into bridges of connection. Whether you're leading a team, interviewing for your next role or simply trying to share your message more confidently, this episode will show you how to speak in a way that moves people.

Caroline Sangal 2:50

Welcome Danny to Your Next Success. I am so excited for our conversation today.

Danny Brassell 2:55

Thank you so much for having me, Caroline. Thank you so for spread some around the we need lot more of you.

Caroline Sangal 3:01

And you as well. So as one of the things I love talking to people about is careers, career transitions, the stories behind the success. Help me understand. Let's take it way, way back. Growing up, what was it like for you? Where were you? Tell us a little bit about childhood and what you thought success meant then as well.

Danny Brassell 3:22

Oh wow. We are going way

Caroline Sangal 3:24

We are going way back. Yeah.

Danny Brassell 3:26

When I was a kid, I wanted to be president of the United States. Now I think I'd like to be the ex-president of the United States because, don't have the responsibility, but I get a nice big payment for my memoir and I can golf wherever I want. I always thought success was having the big mansion and, unlimited fame and that kind of thing. And, then I guess as you get older, your priorities shift a little bit,

Caroline Sangal 3:47

When you were little, what kind of things did you enjoy doing? What fascinated you? Where did you lose track of time?

Danny Brassell 3:54

I have a picture of me, Caroline, when I was four years old and I'm wearing space boots, a San Diego Chargers jersey, a sheriff's badge and a fireman's helmet. 'cause I was gonna be the first ever astronaut professional football player, firefighter and police officer. That's the world I grew up in. I grew up in a world of encouragement where my parents said, you can do whatever you want, just try and be the best at whatever you do. And, I've always tried to follow that advice and I think I have worn multiple hats in my life so far.

Caroline Sangal 4:25

Yeah, we're gonna get into that. I love that. I love the creativity and just the possibilities that even as a a young little soul, you were exuding into the world. When you got into school, how was that, and were there certain subjects or activities that you really enjoyed or maybe some that you didn't?

Danny Brassell 4:45

I went to 18 different schools before I was 12 years old. People used to call me S-S-S S Stupid because stuttered. And eventually I went to a school where a teacher, she took me aside one-on-one and she would sing things to me. I found that I could sing without my stutter, like the movie, The King Speech. And, I lost my stutter and I became a swan. But I've been blessed to have lots of wonderful, teachers as mentors who encouraged me and, I wish I was only good at one thing. I'm actually good at lots of different things. And because of that. I've got puppy dog syndrome and I'm always looking at different, avenues. But I've been blessed, very blessed with a lot of support and encouragement throughout my life.

Caroline Sangal 5:25

I get it. I get the puppy dog syndrome. Multiple schools now. What was it that prompted you to go to 18 different schools?

Danny Brassell 5:34

Yeah, it was just because of my speech, disability and getting bullied and things like that.

Caroline Sangal 5:39

Oh, so your parents proactively would take you and try to put you, plant you into in a new environment?

Danny Brassell 5:46

We were in the wrong environments. I'll be diplomatic, we'll say. that was the case. I was in the wrong environments with people that weren't supporting me. and so my parents made sure that I was around people who did support me.

Caroline Sangal 5:58

And did you physically move locations too, or did you live in a big enough metropolitan area that you could just do that?

Danny Brassell 6:04

Yeah, we also moved around a lot. and then we also lived in some bigger metropolitan areas.

Caroline Sangal 6:09

And that was like high school, middle school When did you land into the amazing place for you?

Danny Brassell 6:14

I was about 13 when I moved to Durango. And so it was right at the end of sixth grade entering middle school in high school. And, Just a real blessing to be there.

Caroline Sangal 6:24

Oh, that's great. And then you graduated from there.

Danny Brassell 6:27

I did, I graduated from Durango High School and then, at the time I was being recruited to be a football player in college. I had received some very lucrative offers, but all I wanted to do was to attend Yale. And I had the grades, I had the activities, I had the test scores. I had the positive interviews. And I remember Caroline, I got my rejection letter on a Tuesday afternoon, and I was a punk 17-year-old who was so angry. I just went alphabetically down a list and I looked for the very first university without a football team, and that's how I came across American University in Washington, DC. I chose to go there. My parents made me pay for it since I turned down all the scholarship offers and it actually be one of the best decisions of my life. So again, things tend to work out. That's the whole point of your podcast is one, one door closes, but there's usually a better door opening for you.

Caroline Sangal 7:20

That's right. Right by choice or by force. But either way, looking back it's ah, now I see why that happened. Oh, I'm so glad that happened. Steps removed from whatever the situation is. I'm working on getting the trust of going into the future. That same thing is gonna later. I'll be like, ah, that's why that happened. That's why I got to interview Danny that day. That's so amazing.

Danny Brassell 7:44

Yeah. I was speaking at an event a couple of months ago, and the first two speakers told the audience to enjoy the journey. I guess I was feeling facetious 'cause I got up on stage. I said, you ever notice the people who say enjoy the journey have already succeeded? When you're going through it, do you say, man, I can't make rent. I'm really enjoying this journey. It is a lot of fun. the journey's tough. It's not easy to enjoy. But for fortunately, if you're fortunate, you can reflect upon where you've come from and say, oh, I'm glad that happened.

Caroline Sangal 8:15

Yeah. I used to say, Ugh, I guess I'm getting another character building experience. I didn't know I needed more character, but here we go. Okay. So Washington DC then, what'd you choose to study there?

Danny Brassell 8:29

Yeah, I was a political science major 'cause I wanted to be president of the United States.

Caroline Sangal 8:33

Naturally.

Danny Brassell 8:34

I loved political science, but then I took a journalism class with Steve Taylor. I took the class because the basketball team took that class. So I knew it was an easy A. And, Steve kept me after class one night and he's like, gee, Danny, I really wish you'd become a journalism major. You're the best writer I've ever read. That statement got me to switch majors and Steve got me my first job as a journalist. Again, being around the right people and in the right situations can lead to extraordinary things.

Caroline Sangal 9:03

And you listened. That's the thing. Let's just say I have a lot of experience right now with younger men and that's amazing that you took that advice from a mentor, a well-meaning mentor and ran with it. Okay? So then you become a journalist, what's the rest of the story, right?

Danny Brassell 9:20

Yeah, so again, if I was gonna write an autobiography, it would probably be called Pivots. 'Cause I feel like I've already lived nine lives. So yeah, 30 years ago I was a journalist covering President Bush Sr. In the 1992 presidential election. I loved my job. I got to meet extraordinary people and, work with every editor of every major daily. And one editor offered me the Citi Beat for $16,500 a year. Meanwhile, a friend told me they were hiring teachers in South Central Los Angeles for $25,000 a year. So Caroline, I became a teacher. For the noblest of reasons for the high pay, and I fell in love with teaching. I've taught all age levels from preschoolers all the way up to rocket scientists. I can make that claim because I used to teach English as a second language to engineering students at the University of Southern California. And then in 2005, my wife and I attended a real estate seminar, which turned out to be a scam, and we lost everything, and I could give you the woe is me story, but I'm a positive person. I learned a lot from the experience. First of all, I learned that my wife is my soulmate. I put her through the ringer and she stood right by me. She's an incredible human being. Second of all, I learned money's not everything because you can lose money just like that. Third, I try not to judge other people. 'Cause if I was somebody who saw what I had done, I would've said, you deserve that. But now I realize, unless you know everything about a person, you really don't know anything about a person. Towards I became a Christian, which I'm always embarrassed to admit it took a catastrophe to draw me towards, Jesus. But the more I read the Bible, I realize I'm not the first screw up to find Jesus that way. And then fifth, my accountant told me I was gonna have to file for bankruptcy unless I made a certain amount of money. And so I started speaking on the side and I hit that number right on the number. Then the next year, Caroline, he gave me a much higher number. I get that number right on the number. So in year three, I thought, maybe I should set a higher number. And basically, during one of the worst economic downturns in American history, I was able to build up a highly lucrative speaking business, which eventually attracted the attention of some pretty famous people and companies who wanted me to coach them. And I have to confess, I really resisted coaching for a long time, Caroline, because you need to know this about me. I'm obsessive compulsive. I have a very high standard for my students. I will not let you fail. I will be on your back holding you accountable until you succeed. Now that I work primarily with entrepreneurs and business owners and executives, I find that they're highly motivated. They do the work, and it's probably been the most gratifying thing that I've ever done. There's lots of different avenues that you can take us on this journey. But, the important thing for your audience to realize is, wherever you're at, you can always go to someplace better. You just never know what's gonna happen.

Caroline Sangal 12:08

Yes. Yes. That's why I made my company. Called Next Success because it doesn't matter to me what happened to somebody before they came. Like they're already successful because they got to that day. And then what? And then what would they love to do now. I'm curious, when you took that very lucrative teaching job, how did, how much of your experiences and a multitude of school systems did. Did you let shape you as a teacher? What did you take from, and what did you carry forward? What did you leave behind from all those many examples that you had seen before?

Danny Brassell 12:42

Yeah, it was interesting, Caroline, because, I taught in the inner city in South central Los Angeles, and I saw a lot of my students didn't have the advantages I had growing up and I basically said, shame on me. I was really blessed. Both of my parents were in the home. We were poor, but we always had food on the table. And my parents always read in front of us kids to us kids, and we had plenty of access to reading materials. So it really became a passion of me to really show my students why reading was gonna help them out in life. 'Cause I'm a little bit different than a lot of teachers. I find that schools in America do an adequate job of teaching kids how to read. But the question I always ask people is, what good is it teaching a kid how to read if they never want to read? I teach kids why to read. 'cause I've never had to tell a kid: 'Go turn on the TV. Go play a video game.' And I never wanna have to tell a kid go read. I want them to choose to do it because they find that it's fun and they're simple strategies I share with parents and teachers on how to get your kids to love reading. So it's definitely a passion of mine. One of my mentors, Charlie "Tremendous" Jones, used to say, you're the same today as you will be in five years, except for two things, the people you meet and the books that you read. I always emphasize to my students, be wise and surround yourself with people that lift you up. And make sure to fill your mind with really positive books.

Caroline Sangal 14:00

I love it. And the same thing about reading for students also is tremendously important for people beyond their traditional technical education or whatever that may be. It's amazing. I went through a period of time, where I had just immersed myself into at that time, chemistry and polymer science and rubber and plastics and all the things. And then I had my own children and walked into the library because I had such fond memories of going to the library as a child. And I kid you not, Danny, I forgot that there's an entire section of the library organized by author's last name, not call number. And I was so embarrassed, right? And then I was like, oh my gosh. What have I been reading? Clearly I wasn't reading, more than half the library. And I was ashamed by that. And then, found that mission. But do you have to tell your leaders and remind them also of how important it is for reading in addition to just meeting people?

Danny Brassell 15:07

There's plenty of readers that don't necessarily become effective leaders, but I can't find a single example through the history of the world of an effective leader that was not also an avid reader. And again, I like that you're looking at all the library. Because different strokes for different folks. I'm interested in biographies and personal development, so I have a heavy diet of that. But I also read plenty of fiction. One of the ways that I encourage parents to get their kids reading. I say, I have three kids of my own, and we do book dates every week, even now that the kids are older, I have a, my oldest daughter, she's interested in Game of Thrones and so we're reading a Fire and Ice by George RR Martin. I'm not too thrilled by some of the language or situations in the book, but she likes it, so that's why we read that. My son, have no idea why he's just gotten on this personal development kick. We're reading, together, Dale Carnegie's, How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is a fantastic book.

Caroline Sangal 16:01

Yeah.

Danny Brassell 16:01

John Wooden had a quote, he said, "The problem with new books is it keeps a lot of us from reading the old books", and he's right about that. There's a lot of great wisdom in some of the older books. And then my youngest daughter, for some reason she's into literature. And so we're reading The Great Gatsby together, which drives me nuts. I hate that book. It's one of the most annoying stories I've ever read. But reading it aloud to her, I'm like, oh, well that's Scott Fitzgerald. He didn't know how to craft a sentence. So he's a very good writer. And then my wife, we're reading a series called, the Unselected Journals of Emma M. Lion by Beth Brower. I have no idea why Reese Witherspoon hasn't bought the rights to this series of books. It's just a lovely series of Elizabeth and England with this woman and her three best friends are these different guys, and it's just a funny. There's no F-bombs, nobody's getting raped. I'm like, wow. They still can write nice books. I like that. So, yeah, and that's one way to get people reading. When the kids were little, I created a rule. I have a feeling that TV's here to stay and I'll let the kids watch TV. But the price of admission is they have to bring me something to read. So when they were little, they'd bring me children's picture books, we'd read that together and they could watch the TV. Now they're older and so they'll usually bring me their iPad or a newspaper and we'll read an article together and then they turn on the TV. But we establish the habit. Same thing with leaders. I point out to people, I don't care what industry you're in, the most effective people in their industries are reading all the time. So if you're an entrepreneur, you look at, Warren Buffet, one of the wealthiest people in the world. All he does is read all day. Elon Musk is running four companies. He still finds time to read a full book a day. If you go into the military history. General Norman Schwartzkoff. He could read in four languages and quote Shakespeare, voraciously. General MacArthur was an avid reader. If you look at politics, a lot of people forget this story, President Kennedy, when he was president, a journalist asked him what he was reading and he said, oh, I'm reading this cool spy book about this guy named James Bond. That flippant comment, MGM was watching the press conference. So they bought the rights to the James Bond franchise and that's why we have the James Bond movies. You look at people, Abraham Lincoln wasn't educated, but he had the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and he put him voraciously, no problem like that. You look at sports, Bill Belichick most successful NFL coach in history, pretty much.

Caroline Sangal 18:23

He's 10 minutes down the road from me right now.

Danny Brassell 18:27

He needs your help right now.

Caroline Sangal 18:28

He needs a lot of help. I can help him. I can help turn him into an authentic success creator for college age students. Call me Bill.

Danny Brassell 18:36

I honestly wouldn't count him out. People are counting him out, and I'm like, you don't become the best of your profession by being a quitter.

Caroline Sangal 18:42

Yeah.

Danny Brassell 18:42

Very surprised if he didn't succeed at the college level. And I love people to take risks like that. He's got one of the largest American football book library on the planet. LeBron James, I could have kissed him when he was in his first NBA championship series with Miami. They showed him in the locker room and he was reading the Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins.

Caroline Sangal 19:01

Yeah.

Danny Brassell 19:01

I was like, you've just done more to get kids interested in reading than I've ever done in my life. And it really doesn't matter what your profession is. I, I know your science background. I didn't have as good a science teachers as you did. I had some really bad science teachers that made me hate science. But then my wife, she's interested in science and she handed me a book by Richard Feynman called Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman. and I gotta tell you, if I had read anything by Richard Feynman, if I'd had him as a professor, I would've been a physics major because the guy makes science come alive. He's a wonderful teacher, and that's what I love. I like being around people that are still constantly curious and they're enthusiastic about what they're doing, and that's what a really good book should do is it should draw you in. So you're like, wow, I'm interested in this person's world.

Caroline Sangal 19:47

Absolutely. I loved it. I don't know that I had such great science teachers as much as I had growing up in the eighties. In a smaller town in Ohio, teachers that saw the possibility of women in science and, chose me to highlight and support and mentor and tell me that I could do it. I wanted to be a teacher. My dad was a teacher, principal, superintendent. I loved school. I still have what I call my teacher school supply cabinet in my closet because I just loved school supplies. Just spending a lot of time with my dad while he was working. I would roam around and I'd go see who had what construction paper and paperclips, and just loved it. But as I wanted to be a teacher, my dad said, girl, I don't think that profession is gonna support the lifestyle I think you wanna be accustomed to. And I was so shocked. 'cause I was like, what? What do you mean, I was waiting my whole life in college. I decided to be a resident assistant just because they made bulletin boards. I was like, this is the life. And we were just talking the other day. I was really mad that some of the people on my floor while I was an RA, they were education majors and they were making poster boards with macaroni. And I'm like, what the heck? these people are making poster boards. Like I was knocking them, but secretly I wanted to be them because I wasn't, I was in the physics lab calculating like friction or something. But yeah, it was my dad encouraging me that you don't have to be an educator to educate. And, so I definitely listened to that. I'm glad that I took, the time. I'm glad I followed the advice that was right for that chapter, and I'm also glad to now be in this chapter as well. How old are your kids these days?

Danny Brassell 21:35

21, 20, and 16.

Caroline Sangal 21:37

Oh, nice. And can you now ride in a car with your children driving and you're okay with it? Or how does that work?

Danny Brassell 21:46

I have to because everybody in my house except for me, owns a car. I don't have a car because I've never really particularly loved driving. And then a friend of mine, He had a BMW and he was complaining that about his monthly car payment, his insurance payment, and how much gas costs and how much the maintenance on the car cost. And he started calculating in his head, he's it'd probably be just cheaper to take Uber everywhere. And when he said that, I'm like, I agree. I don't really need a car. I'll just take Uber, let other people drive. I don't have to deal with all this stuff. The problem is I've got three kids and a wife, and they all have cars, so I'm paying all of their insurance.

Caroline Sangal 22:26

Do they ever drive you and you pay them?

Danny Brassell 22:32

The day they asked me to pay them, that's when they'll receive a bill with services rendered.

Caroline 22:39

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow @nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.

Caroline Sangal 23:16

You do a lot with helping leaders train them and also helping people tell stories and make connections. I'm curious if you could help give some advice to people who may be listening. A lot of the people that are attracted to the work that I'm doing thus far are the ones that I interacted with and was at one time. So let's say there's a highly trained technical person. Perhaps they aren't, as extroverted as I am. And they're really smart in their craft and the things that they've done. And they always wanna get things right, and yet they've heard relationships are where it's at. And communication skills are what really propel careers. So now they're going to a technical meeting and you walk into this room of other brilliant minds. What's your advice? What can they do? How do they approach that?

Danny Brassell 24:11

Well, you're a well crafted story away with seven figures. Of all people it was Joseph Stalin who said that a million people dead is a statistic and one person dead is a tragedy. Translation, facts tell, but stories sell. Facts inform, stories transform. I don't know if Einstein actually was the most brilliant scientist ever to walk the planet, but I do know this, he was the only scientist who was able to convey really complex highly technical information in a way that people like me could actually comprehend. And that's what a good storyteller does. Matter of fact, most of the people I work with, either they're terrified of speaking or they have no interest in speaking, and I'm able to show them, no, this is the way you're gonna really impact a lot more people and definitely affect your bank account as well. An example just so you know, I never give the names of the people or the companies I work with out of respect to that my business partner Coach Jimmy, he loves to say all the people that we work with, but I don't do that. So we were working with a pretty big Silicon Valley firm of engineers. Let's just say engineers tend to be introverted people. And one of the gentlemen I was working with, is an Indian gentleman, and he was terrified. He's like, oh, Danny, please, please, you have to make me interesting so that they listen to me. And so he has a very difficult name to pronounce. And so what we did with his presentation is he starts off and he says, hello, my name is Shibankar Majaharden. Gee, I sure hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. And so all I'm showing 'em how to do is, hey, you don't have to be a standup comedian, but this is gonna get people, you're gonna lower their filters. So they're like, oh, this is somebody I can listen to. And that's what the power of storytelling is. Now, I know lots of good storytellers that aren't effective speakers, and the reason is they're just telling stories, but they're not telling stories with intent, and there's a difference there. here's an exercise everybody in your audience can do is later including you. Caroline, later on, getting a comfortable chair with a pen and paper, libation of choice. And for an hour, I want you to write down every story that's ever happened to you. And I don't mean the entire story, I just mean triggers. So the time I locked myself out of the car in front of Costco, the time dad spill mustard on his tie when we were at that fancy restaurant, you'll find in an hour you can come up with several hundred stories like this. So that's the first part of the exercise. The second part of the exercise is then I want you to think about what's this story really about? Oh, this is a story about never giving up. Oh, this is a story about loyalty. This is a story about friendship. And so on my computer, I have hundreds of files with literally tens of thousands of stories like this, so that when I'm putting together a presentation, I know where I can find stories to make the points I'm trying to make. For example, I'm working with a a dietician, nutrition expert. we'll call her Kathy, and she was having difficulty with her presentation. She helps women with intestinal issues on their diets, and she has a 90 day coaching program, and she made the mistake at the end of her presentation, she ended by just saying, oh, make sure you enroll in my 90 day coaching program. And I said, no. We can't do that. This is a mistake. I actually have a process I take people through, and you have to understand there's two types of people in your audience. I call 'em. Joe Fridays and the Julia Roberts. So we're gonna be stereotypical and say it's the married couple. The husband is usually Joe Friday. He's the guy sitting in his audience with, his arms crossed. It's like, how much is this gonna cost me? How long does it take? What do I gotta do? And a well-crafted presentation addresses all of those questions for him. The problem is a lot of people in their presentations on that, and you're ignoring potentially half of your audience the wipe. I call Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts doesn't care about that. All she cares about is that it makes her feel good. Oh, I listen to Caroline's podcast because I always learn. She always makes me feel good. It's like a long lost sister. And so I asked Kathy, I said, what do you want your audience to do? And she said, I want them to buy my program. I'm like, yes, we, I know that. I know you want them to buy your program. What do you want them to understand about your program that they don't understand right now? So she thought about it. She's oh, I want them to understand that they can't do it alone. I'm like, oh, there you go. You need to hire an expert story. She's like, what's that? I'm like, okay. I'll give you an example. Many years ago, my wife and I, we had theater tickets. We were dressed to the nines, driving to the theater when we got a flat tire, and my wife said, I'll call AAA. Get a tow truck. I'm like, you don't have to call AAA. I'm a man. I can fix a flat tire. So I got outta the car. I opened up the trunk and I got the spare tire. Then I got the pumper thing and I got the big jack thing and started trying to untake the take the nuts off of the tire. And 27 minutes later, I have grease all over me. I have not fixed the flat tire. I look up at my wife, she's shaking her head like I could have done so much better than this guy. Well, unbeknownst to me, she'd called AAA. This tow truck shows up. This 17-year-old punk hops out of the tow truck and fixes my flat tire in three minutes. You know, I think there's times in life when all of us think we can do it on our own, but if you wanna save time, you wanna save money, you wanna save a whole lot of headache embarrassment, you hire an expert. And so what I've done, Caroline, is I've now created a story. That is a metaphor for what I want the audience to do. People think in stories, and if you don't believe me, I like to point out to the Bible. I guarantee

Caroline Sangal 30:03

Yes.

Danny Brassell 30:04

I bet you 9 out 10 people who are not Christian are still able to tell you the story of the Prodigal Son. They're able to tell you the story of David and Goliath. They're able to tell you the story of the Good Samaritan. They know these stories. But I'll also say this, I bet you 9 out of 10 Christians cannot tell you the 10 Commandments. The reason is because it wasn't presented as a story. It was presented as a boring 10 item bullet point list on a PowerPoint. And people can't remember that. People don't remember that. They remember stories. And this is where I'm taking my clients too, is if you really want to have a lot more power, Steve Jobs said the most powerful person in the world is the storyteller. And if you watch his old presentations, I don't know if there's anybody who's ever done it better than him and how to use a story to get people at the edge of their seats, like, what's he gonna sell us next? What do I need that I didn't know I didn't need? That's a good storyteller. Again, Richard Feynman is a perfect example. He was asked to testify after the space shuttle Challenger blew up. He testified to Congress and they asked him how it happened, and with a glass of water and a pen, he basically illustrated this is what happened. And he told stories in entire panel's like, wow. Now we understand. He is a good teacher. He was able to take it and make it understandable. that's what a gifted storyteller does, and this is what an effective presentation does, is, when I'm working with politicians, I always give politicians a hard time. I'm like, you ever notice that nobody who grew up middle class ever is running for president? You never notice that? They all grew up in a one cabin? They all were dirt. It cracks me up. It is a storytelling technique. Look at Disney movies. Disney movies are very formula. There's a reason they're designed that way. I think it was, up until recently there was never a single Disney movie where the kid wasn't missing at least one of their parents.

Caroline Sangal 32:01

Yes.

Danny Brassell 32:01

They wanted to show you the adversity that they overcame. It's fascinating to me, but It's not surprising. If you look at the most effective storytellers, that's what they're doing is they're taking you so that you're at the edge of your seat. And then the biggest mistake I see most people make in their presentations, and this would be in your field especially, is they like to brag. By using fancy vocabulary and talking about their credentials. And I'm like, don't do that. Do exactly the opposite. Brene Brown, she's a wonderful speaker. She talks about vulnerability and I completely agree with her on that. I always tell people, stop talking about your successes. Start talking about your failures. 'Cause not everybody in your audience has succeeded, but they've all failed. The more you share your own failures, the more your audience is gonna see themselves in you and nod their heads. And that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to connect with people. Oh, Caroline's just like me. It's like I'm talking to my long lost sisters. That's why I listen to this podcast is, wow, there's all these people that, they've had these weird journeys where, things kept on happening to them But that's what, that's why we all like Rocky. He takes a punch, but he gets right back up. And that's the whole point. That's the hope that we need in a story.

Caroline Sangal 33:13

Yeah, I've, immersed myself in over the last year or so in trying to get back to basics, peel off some of the layers that I had and remember about stories. Because at first, what does any technical PhD do when they go to give a presentation? It's Hi, my name is Dr. Caroline Sangal, and I have a PhD in this, that, and the other. And I went to all these things and I'm gonna tell you a whole bunch of stuff and you're gonna believe me because of the letters behind my name, and I'm gonna just talk through the scientific method and tell you about my observations and we're gonna get to the conclusions and, see you next time. And then I tried that, right? So it's like I did the science thing decade in the chemical industry. Stay at home Mom came back as a recruiter for the chemical industry, helped people's lives. That was amazing. Now I'm gonna go do it and I'm gonna, make the world a better place and be the resource that all the candidates wish they had, but I couldn't do because it was a hundred percent commission only. Boy, this is what I'm gonna do. Okay? So I've got my coaching program and I got all this stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Word vomit, word vomit, word vomit, word vomit. They left confused, and I didn't get to help the people that I wanted to help, and I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta get back to basics and I say it's emotional story selling, not for manipulative reasons, but to make the connection and the same characteristics though for somebody, even if they're not giving a huge presentation, even in an interview, right? A lot of times it's behavioral based. Tell me about a time when you had to work with a difficult person. Tell me about a time when you saw a safety thing. What'd you do? And that situation, task, action result. I'll tell people and okay, let's practice the question, and they're very robotic about the thing. I'm like, no. Record yourself. Listen to it later. Tell it so your grandma could understand. That's what people want. That's what people want, is the ability to, even in an interview, to make a connection of how your past connects with their future. Sell them that you are the right person, ready and willing for that opportunity. So story selling. So important. Thank you for sharing those. If you only had one piece of advice. to give somebody in a networking situation, and they're scared. They're not really sure what to do, they're uncomfortable. What advice would you give them?

Danny Brassell 35:37

I give tips to waiters. I give strategies to the people I work with. So if I was gonna give a strategy to people, I say that there's only two ways you get better at speaking. First of all, you need to watch lots of speakers. I watch 10 speakers a day. I watch politicians. I watch comedians, I watch televangelists. I watch 'em in front of big groups, in front of small groups, in front of men, in front of women. Here, I'll give you a strategy. I watch a lot of televised award shows because when the person wins the Academy Award, they only have 45 seconds to connect with their audience. I wanna see how they use their 45 seconds. Now, most people, they waste their time. They get up there oh, thank God, I wanna thank the academy. It's stupid. Nobody pays attention. But every now and then, a person does a masterful job. So a few years ago, there was the Academy Award for best film editing, it was won by a gentleman named Joe Walker. Now this is film editing and we're at the Academy Awards. All the important people are in the front of the room, the actors and the camera's scanning the crowd. You can tell they're not paying attention. This is editing. Joe Walker, he gets up there. He is British. He speaks very slowly and deliberately says, and lots of people don't know this, but when phrased properly, the term Academy Award nominee can be used as an insult. Now the camera's standing in the crowd, people leaning in what's he talking about? He's like, for example, yesterday I got an argument with my 17-year-old daughter and she said, Academy Award nominee Joe Walker. All of a sudden you see everybody laughing hysterically. He gets off stage. Denzel Washington wants to meet him. Brad Pitt wants to meet him. Sandra Bullock wants to meet him. Time Magazine said it was one of the highlights in the Academy Awards. Well done, Mr. Walker. And so the first way you get better at speaking is you watch lots of speakers. The second way you get better at speaking, I've had lots of great coaches throughout my life. One of 'em was a guy by the name of Jim Rohn and Jim used to say, you can't pay other people to do your pushups. Translation, you gotta do the work. You gotta get out there and you gotta go speak. Even the smallest communities in America have a Lions Club, a Rotary Club, an Optimist Club, a Kiwanis Club. They got women's clubs, they got chambers of commerce, they got schools, churches, synagogues. you gotta get out there and do the reps. I tell people to do podcasts all the time. My business partner coach Jimmy Hayes Nelson, it dries him nuts that I'm on podcast all the time. He's like, why are you doing that? How many people even listen to that podcast? And I always say, I don't care how many are listening, all I care about is who is listening. if you only have one subscriber, but that subscriber's, Oprah Winfrey, that's a pretty important person. You have no idea how important this podcast is, Caroline. When I first started speaking, I was making about $700 a day working for a speaker's bureau. Where I would do a presentation from 8:00 in the morning to 3:00 PM every single day. My local library, they asked me if I would do a free presentation. They're like, we're gonna have 500 people come. I'm like, sure, that's fine. four people showed up. Two of 'em were my realtors. The other two was a Hispanic fam couple that didn't speak a word of English, but I believe in getting 110%. So I did as much as I could in Spanish. We all laughed. We had a good time. The hispanic woman was taking English classes at the adult literacy center. She recommended me to do a 45 minute keynote for $4,000, which at that time was six times what I was making for a day. And that's when I learned, woohoo, it doesn't matter how many, all it matters is who. And so I love doing podcasts because it gives me a chance to get in the practice. And you might get a job. So again, you don't know who's listening, but it gives you practice no matter what. I was giving a presentation recently, and a woman asked me a question. I gave her an answer and she said, gosh, I wish I could do what you do. There's no way you were so good with that answer. I could have never done that. And I said, wait a second. What you don't understand is the question you asked me. I've been asked that question 500 times. Before you asked me that question, I had 500 opportunities to learn the perfect answer to make you think I'm smart.

Caroline Sangal 39:52

It goes back to the, to journalism a bit, right? I used to be fascinated and on one hand I was annoyed, and then I was fascinated, growing up on all those, like Sunday morning talk shows. And my dad would answer and I would just be like, enamored. Like, how is it? They had no idea what's coming, and they sound so polished and so professional every single time. And then when I was older, I realized they had answers before they had questions, I guess what you're saying is helping people come up with their story, whether it's for a presentation, whether it's for meeting somebody, an introduction, all of those things. The more you practice your story, whether it's 60 seconds or an hour, the better you'll be at delivering that so that when the time comes, you sound like those very crafted.

Danny Brassell 40:40

Yeah, even a comedian like Robin Williams on his improvisation. It wasn't exactly improv, I've seen him do the same response at different functions. But he practiced. He practiced all the time. He knew how to do an accent and be silly. and, okay, I'll stall a little bit here 'cause I'm trying to think of how to do that. He was just brilliant and I think that's what made him so brilliant is making it look like it was spontaneous. Covering President Bush, somebody would ask him a question, he would just put his hand on them and make 'em feel like that was the most important question ever. And I'd seen that same day, 17 other people had asked that exact same question. He did the same thing every single time. Made everybody feel important. Winston Churchill's mother, Jenny was a contemporary Queen Victoria. She knew every famous person of the land, and a journalist asked her once about the difference between Prime Minister Gladstone and Prime Minister Disraeli. Her response was phenomenal. She said, well, whenever I left a meeting with Prime Minister Gladstone, I left feeling like, wow, he is the most interesting person I have ever met. But whenever I left a meeting with Prime Minister Disraeli, feeling like, wow. I'm the most amazing person he's ever met. How do you make the people around you feel important? That's what a good leader does all the time.

Caroline Sangal 42:00

And that's what a good teacher does too.

Danny Brassell 42:02

Yep.

Caroline Sangal 42:02

I love these, this narrative of how you've crafted your journey to be able to take every single element, use it for good, and now help whoever's in front of you, whether it was a student, a parent, a leader, a tech person. That's so cool.

Danny Brassell 42:20

That's what you do, Caroline. this is why I watch a lot of speakers. I always tell people that are fearful of things. I'm working with a woman right now and she shakes like crazy. And this is what a lot of people don't understand. The audience actually wants you to succeed because there's nothing more uncomfortable than watching a really bad speaker bomb. I said, if you're gonna shake, just tell your audience, I'm nervous. Look at my hands right now. 'Cause what's gonna happen is the audience are like, no, you can do it. You can do it if you want turn whatever you perceive as your weakness, turn it into your strength. Watch comedians. Comedians are excellent at this. Kevin Hart is a short black guy. So what does he do? He does a lot of jokes about being a short black guy. Jim Gaskin's a big fat white guy. So what's he do? He makes a lot of jokes about being a big fat white guy, by taking your perceived weakness and turning it into your strength. People like, oh, I can't even mention that. They're just dumbfounded. If you're a scientist that's wordy or whatever you say, oh, I speak two languages. I speak English and I speak, I speak scientific technology stuff. It's gonna get people to laugh. Oh yeah. 'cause we, all of us are nerds. This is what we do is we li we like to impress each other with our vernaculars and our lexicons.

Caroline Sangal 43:32

What brings you joy at this season of your life?

Danny Brassell 43:36

What brings me joy? I love working with my clients, watching. Clients far exceed what I ever did in life. I've got one client, now she's probably one of the most in demand speakers on the planet. I wish I could tell everybody who it is, but, if you could have seen her five years ago, she was the worst speaker you've ever seen. And now she holds arenas of 80,000 people. She's amazing. and just watching. A lot of people that, and that's not typical 'cause she wanted to be a speaker. I worked primarily with business owners that are trying to get more business and that's what gets me excited. I'm working with a guy right now and we were able to, really niche down his clients. So now he speaks to very specific people, very intentional about it. And he's increased his business, 50 fold. That brings me a lot of joy is seeing a person who think they could do it. that's doing a great job now, and I never knew I'd know that kind of joy through coaching, but I absolutely love it. So that's what in this stage of my life, watching people exceed anything that they ever imagined is very satisfying to me.

Caroline Sangal 44:43

And how do people come to find you? I know you've written a lot of books, you've got some coaching programs, workshops. But how do they find you?

Danny Brassell 44:52

As a thank you to you, Caroline, and your audience for having to listen to me today, I wanted to give everybody a freebie. So if you go to freestoryguide.com I'm gonna give everybody their own well-crafted story blueprint. What this is the actual process that Coach Jimmy and I take our clients through on how you can create your well-crafted story. What this does for you is it takes the guesswork out of, where should I put this and why am I putting this here? And what this means for you is the peace of mind that you have a proven system that's going to increase the number a clients you receive, and more importantly, help you have a bigger impact on the world. You can get that at freestoryguide.com. And again, Caroline, thank you so much for having me today. This has been a real joy for me and I really appreciate all that you do to lift people up.

Caroline Sangal 45:41

Thank you. And I do have one final question. Authentic success. That's what I try to help people find. When you were younger, you thought that success was gonna be the big house and all of those things, but how do you define authentic success for you in this moment?

Danny Brassell 45:58

So President Bush Sr. On his 90th birthday, somebody asked him what his greatest accomplishment was. This is a man who'd been president of the United States, vice president of the United States, ambassador of the United Nations, ambassador of China, just amazing accomplishments. And his response was, I'm 90 years old and my kids still call me every Sunday night. It's wow, that's a really nice, and for me it's the little things. It's not the big things. It's, watching a movie with my kids or taking a walk with my wife, enjoying that. The weather today is beautiful and, avoiding that. I watched this horrible show on TV last week called, News and it totally put me in a negative state of mind, and that's why I avoid that stuff because, there's no reason to fill your head with a bunch of negativity when there's so much good in the planet. That's why I'll turn off the TV, listen to your podcast, and, read some really good books. Yeah, that's where I find my joy.

Caroline Sangal 46:51

I love it. Thank you so much, Danny. I appreciate all of your time today, all the stories and Yeah. I'm a proponent. We should start a, Some sort of TV channel called Good News and really actually just tell good news, the good news or good news. So thank you so much for joining us on Your Next Success

Caroline 47:08

Thank you, Danny. For sharing your beautiful story and helping us to refine how we can tell ours. To learn more about Danny's work and his well-crafted story workshop, visit wellcraftedstoryworkshop.com/workshop. And if you're ready to find your voice and share your story with clarity and confidence, visit nextsuccesscareers.com for tools and upcoming programs. Until next time, keep aligning your work with the life you are meant to live.

Tara 47:37

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.