0:03

What happens when your career reflects years of leadership, impact, and growth and you begin to sense it's time for something more? More freedom, more alignment, more space to create from who you are now. Today's guest followed that. She took everything she'd built and turned it into something even more expansive, expressive, and deeply fulfilling.

Caroline: 0:29

This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Caroline Sangal. I'm a life first career coach and strategist on a mission to normalize questioning your career because I believe each of us is made on purpose for a purpose only we can fulfill. The longer we live out of alignment with who we are, what we do best, and why we're here, the more we miss out. And the more the world misses out on what only we can give. The Your Next Success Podcast is where we explore how to build a career that truly fuels your life. We talk about self-discovery, smart job search strategies, professional growth, and you'll hear stories from people who've navigated big career transitions themselves so you can see what it's really like to make bold changes and feel inspired to create your own version of authentic success, one that is aligned, meaningful, and truly yours.

1:34

Welcome to Your Next Success, the podcast where we talk about the real life moments that invite us to grow and what it looks like to create a next chapter that reflects who you are now. today's guest brings depth resilience and a remarkable ability to keep moving forward through every season of life and leadership. Dr. Lucinda Jackson began her career during a time when few women were working in scientific fields. What she had was a willingness to try new things, to stay open and to pursue opportunities that led her forward. She earned a PhD and her winning mindset took her around the world. She worked in more than 30 countries for four Fortune 500 companies. Eventually became a global executive, serving as a general manager of health, environment and safety, leading international teams in shaping energy and sustainability practices on a global scale. When it was time for a new rhythm, Lucinda stepped into a powerful and purpose-driven next act. She joined the Peace Corps. She founded LJ Ventures and she became a speaker, consultant and author of two inspiring memoirs: Just A Girl: Growing Up, Female and Ambitious, and Project Escape: Lessons for an Unscripted Life. In this episode, you'll hear how Lucinda navigated science and leadership in systems that weren't designed with her in mind. What guided her transitions from corporate leadership into writing, service, and speaking. How she created a fulfilling next act, rooted in contribution, creativity, and peace. Insights for anyone exploring what their next chapter could look like. Encouragement to build forward with wisdom, clarity, and purpose. This conversation is full of insight for anyone in a moment of transition, reflection, or expansion. Let's listen in on my conversation with Dr. Lucinda Jackson.

Caroline: 3:49

Welcome Lucinda to Your Next Success. I am so excited to have you on our show today.

Lucinda: 3:58

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Caroline: 4:02

What I'd like to do is help people understand a bit about careers and transitions and your career bio reads amazingly, I'd love to kind of get into some of the stories behind the stories. Can you take us back to the beginning, like during your childhood, did you have a certain career in mind or how you thought your life was gonna go?

Lucinda: 4:27

Well, I loved being outdoors and I loved bugs and plants, and I used to put my, jackknife and my magnifying glass in my pocket and go out and study'em and I love doing that. my mom would be calling me, you know, late'cause I was out doing that. So I thought about biology. But, they didn't have a biology class in my high school. Now that it's amazing what they have, but they didn't have anything then. So I really had no idea and then people were telling me like my dad, that girls don't need to go to college. So I really wasn't, I decided I wasn't gonna go to college. So that's kind of how it started.

Caroline: 5:09

So did your dad then assume that you were just made for having a family and being a homemaker, or

Lucinda: 5:20

Oh,

Caroline: 5:20

of

Lucinda: 5:20

Yeah, absolutely. He told me that what I really needed to do was to learn how to cook because that's what men want in a woman.

Caroline: 5:28

Ugh.

Lucinda: 5:29

so I didn't apply any place for college, but then at the last minute, I didn't have anything to do. I couldn't get a job right as 17-year-old. And, so I applied to one college. Fortunately, I got in. And, looking back, I saw my, some of my original papers recently and I'd actually put down Biology as my major, which crazy'cause I didn't know anything about It. But I, that didn't happen. I ended up majoring in first in dance and then I majored in economics and then French and, and then I got really worried because, I really wanted to earn my own money, and that'll be a theme throughout this talk is that, you know, and one of my key tips for young people is to save money and it'll make your life so much easier. So I wanted to earn my own money and I had grown up with my father owning all the purse strings. So, my mom, when they got divorced, when I went off to college, she had nothing and no skills. And I thought, that's never gonna happen to me. So I was here, I was a, by this time, a French major, and realizing what kind of job could I get with that and how am I gonna earn my keep? So I switched schools. It was a liberal arts college and I switched schools to go to a school that had agricultural classes and things. I thought, I'll major, I like biology, so maybe I'll major in agriculture'cause I could probably get a job that way. So that's kind of how it started.

Caroline: 7:13

How did you, even know about, like, so if you were already in one school and immersed in that environment and your family has other kind of views, who did you ask or who was a resource? Like how did you learn even that maybe a different school could be an option or that you could even transfer schools

Lucinda: 7:34

It was really difficult because, I certainly had no vision. I hadn't thought about my core values. I was just totally operating by the seat of my pants. But I did meet a man, his name was Dr. Bert Brehm and he taught plant biology at the college where I was going in Oregon. And he was just a wonderful man and he took me and the students out on a lot of field trips and I sort of fell in love with plants. and I started thinking, well, what could I do with plants to make money? And then I thought, well, agriculture, you know, that's,

Caroline: 8:06

oh, nice.

Lucinda: 8:07

as sophisticated as it was. And I really encourage young people today I do mentoring for young, especially STEM students and encourage them to really think about, you know, a vision and their core values, which is something I just, that's why I kind of messed around for a while. However, I also encourage them that you don't have to know

Caroline: 8:34

Yeah.

Lucinda: 8:34

away and don't feel bad if you don't. And I tell'em the story about French and dance and they're like, really? They thought they had to have their major figured out, you know, when they're 14 or something. And there's more pressure for that now. And I tell'em that all those things I did, really helped my life. I mean, I still dance. I love to dance. I don't speak French, but I studied Spanish. I switched.

Caroline: 8:57

Yeah.

Lucinda: 8:58

So it's not an economics. Heck yeah. That was real. It's been really helpful and, you know, being in business, so, it's just not that straightforward. You know, I have a, a picture of my career that goes kind of like this and, and.

Caroline: 9:13

Everybody's, I feel like we think we have this thought that careers are linear or stepwise and that that's how it goes, and everybody just has this beautiful, wonderful journey. And then, we get in there and realize it's a bit of a mess. I also like to encourage people to find someone a few months, years, decades ahead of them and just start having conversations because although I couldn't maybe articulate what I thought I wanted to do,'cause I was still stuck in what I thought I should do, but there are elements that if I could have had a conversation, I'd be like, can you help me understand? How can

Lucinda: 9:54

Right.

Caroline: 9:55

talk to people, and I really like talking about science, but I might not be the one that needs to stand by the hood and do the science, but like, how can I do that? Like

Lucinda: 10:06

Yeah.

Caroline: 10:06

a,

Lucinda: 10:07

Yeah.

Caroline: 10:08

ahead of time could have said, oh, maybe this or maybe that. Or even I've talked to some chemists who became professors at universities, and then they get into it for a while and they kind of wanna maybe do something else and then they feel like they're stuck, but yet they've done analytical instrumentation. And I was like, have you thought about every single analytical instrumentation manufacturer has chemists who can teach others about the instrument? And have been probably four, four different people in the last five years or so that I've helped transfer from professor to analytical instrumentation manufacturer.

Lucinda: 10:52

Caroline, it sounds like you didn't have a lot of guidance either. I mean, there just weren't things like your business available to go talk to somebody or to help have somebody help you sort out like what, what you wanna do for one thing, and then how you go about getting it. I mean, nobody suggested agriculture to me. I just came up with it. Like, oh, I mean, and then I found an Ag College, UC Davis, I transferred there because they do agriculture. Right? It wasn't, it was that, that, informal. But it would've been really great to, you know, have the kind of thought process that people have now. I mean, I have that now for myself. I have a vision, done my core values, and it helps guide me, constantly on my continued career path today. So.

Caroline: 11:39

Yes. So you went, you switched your major to agriculture, and then what happened?

Lucinda: 11:46

Then I studied, I took a lot of chemistry classes and I got interested in agricultural chemicals and, then I tried to get a job and I could not get a job as a bachelor's degree person and especially as a female. In that business in this would've been 19 something, 74, something like that, centuries ago. And, so then I stayed and got a master's degree because the school was willing to do it. And so I did that and I did get a professor who knew a lot about, he worked with a lot of companies so he wasn't just a Ivy Tower academic and through him, I met a lot of people in the chemical business and they were just starting to hire women. The Equal Opportunity Act had been passed, and the reason I got hired was, and nobody let me forget that the reason that I was hired was because they needed to fill some quotas of women. But yeah, it was a plus that I got a job, but it was a negative that people said, oh, you, you only got hired. You know why you're here.

Caroline: 13:02

You only got it because of this identity.

Lucinda: 13:05

Yeah. It's not'cause you're smart.

Caroline: 13:07

identity politics why can't we just, just like, let's widen the whole pool to as many people as possible

Lucinda: 13:13

Yeah, of course.

Caroline: 13:14

get'em in the process.

Lucinda: 13:16

Get the best one.

Caroline: 13:17

And let's see. And then I had one company tell me, oh, we don't need a diversity policy because you've helped us with that and I'm like, well, let me be real clear here. I'm looking at everyone I'm casting a wide net. It just so happens that you've seen time and time again that the people who have been the best options for you have been diverse candidates.

Lucinda: 13:43

Yeah.

Caroline: 13:43

Okay, so you start working at, what kind of a company?

Lucinda: 13:48

Chemical company that They did research and marketing and everything on pesticides. So I was really interested in environmental things. So, I did a lot of field research. You know, looking at the impacts of chemicals on the environment, and that was a lot of interest to me. You know, where they go in the soil, you know, where do they get dissipated into the air? Do the plants take them up? You know, what happens to them? So I worked for this company about a year, and then this thing happened that I had no idea about, which is that they, the chemical business was starting to do a lot of mergers, and sales. So my company got sold to somebody else and I got laid off and I was like. Is this even legal? I mean, I've never heard of being laid off,

Caroline: 14:39

Yeah.

Lucinda: 14:40

But I was only 23 or something like that. And, so I quickly thought, you know, I better find something else. So they, they gave me another job, but it was in sales, so it wasn't in my field of research or more, chemically oriented. It was in sales of pesticides, which again, like I tell people, it wasn't the worst thing to happen because I learned how to make my point, right? I learned how to go up, knock on a farmer's door and, and describe a product to them and, and make a sale. And a lot of scientists do not know how to do that. And I've used it constantly to get money for research projects to get my employees promoted to, bring in some new technology. I've learned how to sell my projects. And so that experience, even though at the time I felt like this is, this is, you know, I went to college for this and, it turned out to be okay. And I guess that's sort of an attitude I've always had that, okay, this, this, I don't like this. This isn't it, but what am I learning from it? And what am I getting? You know,

Caroline: 15:56

Yeah. And how can I get, yeah, that's, yeah,

Lucinda: 15:58

How can I turn into something positive?

Caroline: 16:01

Because in time, right? Looking back, looking back, it's like, oh, I see how that happened and how that was a beneficial thing and now I get it. But looking forward is terrifying. So they, you got laid off, but then, they gave you a new job, so you didn't actually have to have a break of what do I do now? It was just more of, I guess I'm gonna learn to like this thing.

Lucinda: 16:25

Then, um, I, it turned out I was really good at sales and I became the top salesman. And my boss was very threatened by me, and so he made up a rumor that I was having an affair with the warehouseman, who was this wonderful

Caroline: 16:44

Uh.

Lucinda: 16:45

married man who I was friends with, his wife and his two kids, and fortunately, they, you know, she knew, his wife knew me and knew that wasn't happening and everybody, but he made it up and it got spread around the farm community. And at that point I decided I needed to find a new position. There wasn't a lot of recourse in those days. It wasn't illegal to do things like that or harassment. It wasn't illegal, so you kind of had to. You kind of had to just get, get away from it. And I had, you know, talked to lawyers over the years as this stuff happened and, and they said, oh, you don't wanna report this. You know, it'll ruin your reputation more than, than the, the man or whatever'cause they'll, they'll. You know, they'll win and that kind of thing. So instead I got a different job I went to and I thought I wanted to get back into research. So I used that as an opportunity. It was definitely a motivation to to leave.

Caroline: 17:50

Yeah. And so then what was that job?

Lucinda: 17:54

so that one was required a move to the Midwest. And so I, I was in California and so I moved by myself to St. Louis, Missouri. And I worked there for a while. And then they sent me to Central Illinois to work in corn and soybeans. With chemicals, doing experiments with chemicals In the environment. And You know, I was young. It was scary, but again, I really, I guess taking risks is something really important to me. And that's the, the kind of example I'm talking about. Like, well, people say, well, I don't wanna leave my parents or, yeah okay, I understand that. I totally understand that. But, but you might try it and you can always move back. Right. And so I took risks all through my career to see what would happen. And, but I always figured they were, I was irreversible. So it's not that scary when, you know, you're just shopping.

Caroline: 18:49

I feel like sometimes people, and, and I naively thought when I first took my job that I was gonna stay at that company forever. But I try to tell people it's just a job. It's not a

Lucinda: 19:02

Right.

Caroline: 19:02

death do us part. And even those sometimes you realize might not work out for you, but if you make the best decision with the data that you have and you try it, if somehow it doesn't work out so long as you have a story as to why, what you learned, and now what you'd like to do. Then it becomes better. But these people who are trying to, at 15 or 18, or even 22 or 25, plan out the whole rest of their career.

Lucinda: 19:32

Yeah, it's not gonna go like that.

Caroline: 19:35

It's overwhelming, you know, just, just over,

Lucinda: 19:40

I love what you said too about it not being a marriage because, People do think that they take a job and they can't leave it And they say, well, I need to give them like two months notice. And I said, give them a week notice. I because I had one job. Well, like the, the job with the warehouseman rumor, when I told them I was leaving, I gave my two week notice and they said, your last day will be tomorrow. So they can fire you, uh, lay you off, say goodbye like that. There's no legal stuff, so don't feel bad. You know about it's not a marriage. Don't feel bad about quitting a job. They can, they can let you go.

Caroline: 20:21

Yeah, and especially if the environment becomes toxic because Yeah. But, but we have this,

Lucinda: 20:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline: 20:29

and believing that we matter and believing that we are a work family and that essential part of the team.

Lucinda: 20:37

Yeah. Yeah. Not family.

Caroline: 20:41

Yeah. And then that's all fine and good until you're at the wrong side of a

Lucinda: 20:46

Yes.

Caroline: 20:48

or a toxic

Lucinda: 20:51

Right.

Caroline: 20:51

So,

Lucinda: 20:52

And I totally learned about, you know, mergers and, and things like that, and layoffs and and things I didn't even know existed. And you can't take those personally. I mean, you just have to go, okay, it's a business. And, and if you're leaving, that's also business. And, and I try to tell people that like they're, they're running a business. If they don't need you anymore, they're gonna let you go. And you have to think of your own business. This is my business. Yeah. It's business.

Caroline: 21:20

So you. You ended up getting your PhD also, how did that work out I mean, it's like you ended up getting your PhD as though you got a sandwich, but like how did you decide to wanna get PhD?

Lucinda: 21:37

Well, the company I was working for back in, in the Midwest they, how can I put this? They were very discriminatory. And first they got rid of the one hispanic person and then they got rid of the one black person. And then I was the only female, and I knew I was on the list and they made up things to get rid of these diverse candidates. And what they did for me in my case, was that they decided to make a new rule that you couldn't get promoted unless you had a PhD. And I did not have a PhD and most of the men, almost all the men had PhDs. There were a couple who didn't, but for some reason they got to stay. Well, they decided to stay. I mean, you could stay, but the rule was you weren't gonna get promoted. So I left. I was like, okay, I get it. One, I knew I was on the chopping block from this whole diversity situation and two, you know, if they're gonna make rules like that, I just said, fine, I'll go get one. So I left and I went you know, I found it one of the university people I'd been working with on my research at that company would said he'd take me on as a grad student. And interestingly, the, I decided to ask the company. That, that I was working for to fund my PhD if I worked on a project of their, with their new, some of their new and they did. And so they funded it and I was one of the few graduates who came with their own money. And it was very liberating.

Caroline: 23:31

wow.

Lucinda: 23:32

Again, a lesson, lesson is like, don't be afraid to ask for things. Because you never know. I mean, it was really ballsy of me to ask for after they were kind of

Caroline: 23:44

Absolutely. But if they said no, you would be at the same

Lucinda: 23:47

Exactly,

Caroline: 23:47

what? They said yes. And then you were able to that what a win-win for them to have some great research for you to be able to achieve this goal. And kind of be like,

Lucinda: 24:02

yeah.

Caroline: 24:02

ha, ha,

Lucinda: 24:03

Satisfying. And then because I had my own money, I didn't have to work while I was in grad school, so I didn't have to be a graduate assistant or a teaching assistant or anything'cause I was funded

Caroline: 24:15

You got to focus. That's so cool.

Lucinda: 24:18

And I got the focus and I got done in two and a half years. So it was, it was fast. I wanted to get back in the workforce. I wanted, I missed my salary for sure'cause being a grad student was not the same. And, afterwards after I got my PhD, there were quite a lot of job opportunities,

Caroline: 24:37

And you

Lucinda: 24:38

so

Caroline: 24:38

company and you were there a while and rose up through the ranks.

Lucinda: 24:45

yeah.

Caroline: 24:45

A bit. How did, how did that work? How did you, or I guess when you went into that company, what kind of a position did you have and then how did you progress to get more opportunity?

Lucinda: 24:58

this is kind of another lesson learned because I joined the company because they were working on chemicals in corn and soybeans, which are the biggest crops in the world, you know? So I was like, oh yeah, I wanna work on corn and soybeans. So I get there and they said, you're gonna work in rice. And I was like, what? You know, this was an agreement we made. But then I started looking into rice and I saw what an incredible international crop it is. And I saw all these international opportunities for me to work with researchers in Japan and the Philippines and Thailand and South America and, you know, all over the world. And so I turned this into like a huge program. I, no one had been working in rice in that company, and I turned it into something. And, and that's another thing, you know, like if you can look at an opportunity that looks kind of tiny, but, but there's ways to make it into something bigger, you know. It was

Caroline: 25:56

Did you get to travel to all those places?

Lucinda: 25:59

Oh, oh, yeah. I traveled extensively and pretty much from in my other job, I traveled all over the United States, the the Midwest one, and this job, I started traveling internationally and I have been ever since. And it was just a wonderful, you know, wonderful, amazing experience.

Caroline: 26:17

Was it hard to get them because some companies had differing viewpoints. And some travel opportunities went to the other gender. How did you overcome,

Lucinda: 26:32

Yes, absolutely.

Caroline: 26:33

was that even a thing or was this company more open or how, how did that work out?

Lucinda: 26:38

Oh no, it, it was definitely an effort because their original response was, oh, we can't, we can't send a woman to Japan because you know, it's a really sexist country and they don't know what to do with women and stuff like that. And I lobbied and lobbied for it and having one thing I learned was having a PhD in foreign countries, they're much more respected, so it took away a lot of the, I was sort of a neuter. I was not. There was'cause other places that like call you miss or misses or you know, but they call you Dr. Jackson. And Dr. Jackson did just fine with other men who respected PhDs much more than they do in the United States. And the same thing was true in South America and in all parts of Asia and places that I, that I went. I didn't have, I never was able to get an international assignment because I wanted to live overseas and I thought Hong Kong would be perfect. And by this time I did have a child and there was also discrimination against single parents. And they thought, oh, you, they had a million excuses why I couldn't do that. But it was, I thought it would be perfect because I could afford childcare in Hong Kong and, and it's a city and, you know, sophisticated and stuff and you can work the whole region. And I tried for all of my career to get an assignment and I got, they really coveted those assignments, And they gave'em to men. So there were a few women when I quit working in the corporate world that had gotten international assignments. But they were few. And, and I got to the point where I was when I got farther up in my career. I was a huge, I fought at a lot of personnel meetings for those women to get those international assignments'cause I never was able to do it. They're I mean, in lots of ways. And they pay like one and a half salary and you get, you know, lots of vacation to go home and paid trips home and it, very lucrative and so they, wanna give them to women. So, but that's why I joined the Peace Corps. I was like, I'm gonna get me myself, my own international assignment. And I did so.

Caroline: 29:05

Ah, yes. Yes. And I definitely, I do wanna, I wanna absolutely spend time talking about that, but I'm curious, when you were in the industry, how did you shift from individual contributor level position to leader manager? Because then you ended up with quite some phenomenal positions. Lots of responsibility, lots of people. But like how did you take that leap?

Lucinda: 29:34

it started by speaking up as an individual contributor talking in meetings. Saying things not just sitting there. I had to learn. I, you know, I practiced in front of the mirror, like, how was I gonna say something? And a lot of times I'd write it down so I, you know, if my heart's beating while I speak up. In my first meeting I learned to speak up a lot. I learned to I learned to communicate. I practiced speaking, I gave a lot of presentations. Whenever I could, I gave a presentation at a conference or to a group of upper management. I would volunteer. Like, no, I'll, you know, a lot of, like I said, a lot of scientists don't wanna talk

Caroline: 30:18

Yeah.

Lucinda: 30:18

be out there, and I would say I would, I'll do it. And that gave me kind of a, a platform. And I also wrote articles and I did some publications when I was in companies, even though that's hard to do, I published some things. I partnered with academic people to publish and those kind of credentials, they kind of helped me stand out. And then when, um, and I also really like people and I made friends with a lot of people in my companies and they saw that and when some team, like a first thing is like a team leader position opened up, I applied and I got I got one And

Caroline: 31:05

Wow.

Lucinda: 31:06

group starting with like five employees. And then another, i'd see another, you kind of prove yourself as a leader and that you could handle. A budget, a business planning, forecasting, human resources, you know, that kinda stuff. You start having to fire people, hire people. And then I took another job that had 13 people reporting to me and just so gradually then there was, you know, a hundred and then four hundreds, and that's how it, that's how it went. One little step at a time.

Caroline: 31:46

So step by step? Yeah. So little each one. You just proved your kept delivered, did a great job and made yourself more visible for the next opportunities and, just boldly kept putting your name in

Lucinda: 32:03

Put your name in and I didn't get all of'em for sure. I didn't get all the jobs, you know, but You get, you find one and and then I learned the ropes that you do a lot of advocating for yourself. You go around to people and say,

Caroline: 32:20

Hmm.

Lucinda: 32:21

first you find out who's on the selection team. Then you go talk to each of those people. You make it a 15 minute appointment with them and say, Caroline, you know, this job's coming up. You know, I really think I'd be a good candidate and here's why and I really appreciate your support, if it's possible. And then you could, you know, sometimes you didn't get it, the person would go like, there's, you know, Bob, he's been around for a long time, and you know, he's, and I go, yeah, I know, but, and then you just let'em know that you're interested not in a creepy way, in a nice way like that. I want, I really want this. I'd love the opportunity, you know, I understand that, you know, you've known Bob a long time, but I understand that but you know, maybe the next time, you know, I'm interested in this kind of move.

Caroline: 33:07

And even that, yeah, that, that process beyond the process. and the ability to positively differentiate yourself and kind of make a little bit your own path that that's

Lucinda: 33:19

Right.

Caroline: 33:20

not a lot of people do that. They think, oh, I have to apply, and then I'm gonna wait, and then they might contact me. And meanwhile there are people who are

Lucinda: 33:32

Yeah.

Caroline: 33:33

going in the side

Lucinda: 33:35

Yes. Do the pre-work.

Caroline: 33:37

and just exploring. Yeah, those are great, great, great tips.

Lucinda: 33:41

I

Caroline: 33:41

Yeah, like networking and and all of those things. Yeah. Very, very interesting. So a couple themes come up. Self-advocacy, communication, building communication skills. This writing thing is really interesting because you've now written a few books and one of'em is gonna be about the Peace Corps, but when did writing become on your radar as something that you enjoyed doing? Because that's, I believe, another skillset that you have beyond a typical scientist. You have phenomenal captivating writing skills and for everyone who doesn't know, there are two books, it's just a girl. There's a whole bunch of story beyond the beautiful highlights in a bio and project escape. Both of these are phenomenal books. I had heard from another American Chemical Society career consultant

Lucinda: 34:41

Aw, it's nice.

Caroline: 34:42

That he had read Project Escape and couldn't put it down. And I was like, oh, okay, okay. And so, but I thought, well, I'm gonna start at the beginning. I'm, I'm a girl. I'll start with just a girl. And to realize a lot of themes that you had to overcome and challenges of harassment and, being treated differently in some really awkward situations were underneath all of these rising the corporate ranks. I was completely blown

Lucinda: 35:14

away,

Caroline: 35:14

surprised. I shouldn't have been surprised but resilience and this amazing writing. So back to this how did you get interested in writing? Where did you learn that?

Lucinda: 35:25

Always liked it in school, English class in high school. I really liked it. Uh, I had a poetry phase. I went through, of course, in my teens. And, and I always liked to I enjoyed writing my thesis, my master's thesis. I enjoyed writing my PhD thesis. And, and then when I got into to work, I really enjoyed putting together a story of what we'd accomplished. And I, and for work I often use pictures because, you know, they're more, a lot of people are visual. So I'd find some really cool, I'd take a lot of pictures and put and I used to make these one page things I'd sent kind of like, flyers that I'd send out to people saying like, oh, we're doing this amazing work in remote sensing right now, and look at these pictures. And I'd show some of these satellite pictures we had of our facilities. And I'd make it like, this is, this is some tech, a new technology, but look how we apply it and look how cool this is, and translating that from the technical to the practical and to non-scientists became kind of a specialty for me and I really enjoyed doing it. And that's what I could do for my employees too, because they'd have some amazing thing they're working on. They discovered, you know, some whole new process and yet they weren't getting it out there to people. I would like work with them and like gimme some pictures and, and then I could take it to the management teams and say, look what these people are doing and look how cool this is. And then everybody would go like, oh, wow. And, and put it into language that they understand instead, instead of saying like, oh, it's these satellites can see 500 miles. That's as if you could see from right where we're standing to LA Imagine if you could see that far. And do that kind of stuff that they go, oh yeah, these are these people that are not technical. Right? And so I really enjoyed that kind of sharing. And I'd always kind of kept it up and like I said, I did publications while I was in companies, and a lot of people did. And they said I was too hard. You know, everything's proprietary. You can't get it out there. You have to work with the lawyers. But I worked with the lawyers and I got some stuff written and like I said, I co-authored things a few book chapters with people who are writing books and um, yeah, it's just a way of communicating.

Caroline: 38:32

You're really phenomenal. It's, a, wonderful, amazing gift. So I would encourage who hears this. The very next thing you need to do if you don't already have them, is get just a Girl and get Project Escape

Lucinda: 38:45

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

Caroline: 38:52

But tell us about Project Escape. How did you decide to leave this amazing, like what was your last What was the,

Lucinda: 39:03

I was the head of health, environment and safety for the corporation. Mm-hmm.

Caroline: 39:10

And you just decide, Hey, about I leave all of this behind and I know, I'll get that international assignment and I'll join the Peace Corps? Like

Lucinda: 39:26

Well, that's when I started doing my own personal vision statement and thinking about what my career was lacking. And then I came up with my core values. So my personal vision statement was, create a remarkable next act.'Cause I've been in a corporate America for 40 years and I was saying, I'm not, what should I do next? You know, I'm, I'm a little bored, I wanna do something else. And so that's when I really started personally working on having this vision of create a remarkable next act. I said, yeah, I want. I want my life to be remarkable. You know? That's what I want. And I, and I'll, and I use the word create because I want to, I can create that for myself. You know, nobody's gonna give me that or

Caroline: 40:12

Yeah.

Lucinda: 40:13

job was gonna make, you know, make that for me. So then getting into my own core values I saw one of'em was was freedom and adventure. And I wanted more freedom than I had in the, as you have in a job. Right so I thought and then I had noble purpose was one of my authentic self, which I felt like I hadn't been thoroughly, you know, completely in corporate America. you

Caroline: 40:39

Yeah, you. have to fit in a little bit, right? You have to be who you gotta play the role. Sadly,

Lucinda: 40:45

Right.

Caroline: 40:46

lot of people are scared to be themselves, or if you do show yourself, you're gonna get judged or some adverse reaction for

Lucinda: 40:54

One man, one man told me I had Democrat hair and yeah. Yeah, so I

Caroline: 41:00

What, like what does that even mean? what does that even mean?

Lucinda: 41:06

I straightened it. Straightened it. more so it looked more new. Not Democrat.

Caroline: 41:14

It's hair. It's hair. Yeah.

Lucinda: 41:19

I don't know. You know, people make weird, But now I can wear my hair anyway I want. But anyway, yeah. I just decided to branch out more and do that for myself. So those values really helped me. that's why in your work, Caroline, you also talked a lot about people's core values and I didn't, I really hadn't done that assessment. I mean, here I was really late in my career and I hadn't really said like, is this everything? For me and I found these other things, you know, about authentic self that, that, like I was just mentioning, I wanted to be more authentic. I wanted to just really find out who I am. And I've been able to do that and it's just been so fun. So fun. And so the Peace Corps was one of'em. It was one of those like, I want my international assignment.

Caroline: 42:11

And you, and you convinced your husband to also.

Lucinda: 42:15

Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline: 42:17

Go. And I think that's another thing too. You find a cause that you want to champion and then you will bring others on board. And those who love you inevitably end up going along. But without spoiling the book, because it is a must read, give us the snapshot of how did it really go and what did you learn?

Lucinda: 42:45

It did not go well. Which again, another life lesson. You know your best plans. Like, this is it man, and then it, it doesn't, but in retrospect, I wouldn't change it for the world. Okay.

Caroline: 43:01

Oh wow.

Lucinda: 43:01

So, It didn't, I got assignment from my husband too. And the assignments we got did not equal the job description. We were not,

Caroline: 43:10

Yeah.

Lucinda: 43:10

not paid properly for the economy of the nation, and we became how would I say this? I mean, they, it's a very class oriented society. The island we went to, the country we went to, and we were on the bottom rung of the society, and so we were not respected and because we were so poor. And they had cars and washing machines and all this stuff. And we were living in poverty and it was really difficult. It was really difficult'cause our jobs were professional, So we went to organizations who are professional, but they had like suits and nice clothes and I was wearing, like, they told me not to bring anything good. So, I mean, all I had was like little dress, you know, a little flimsy dress and some some flip flops. And I didn't have any money to buy in the Peace Corps. You're not supposed to spend your own money. So, I didn't have any money to buy any clothes and they all wore makeup and I didn't even bring makeup. I mean, it was really difficult because of the, that disconnect.

Caroline: 44:17

And how did that work on your mission of finding your authentic self?

Lucinda: 44:23

It is just another lesson about who I am. I guess I grew stronger. It really developed my sense of humor and the biggest reward from it was my husband and I fell in love there.

Caroline: 44:42

Oh, that's amazing.

Lucinda: 44:43

Nothing like hardship to bring you together

Caroline: 44:48

And how long had you guys been married at that point?

Lucinda: 44:52

Almost 30 years.

Caroline: 44:55

Wow. So you're saying there's hope because that's right. Because I don't know about your marriage, but I'd love my husband. He's amazing. I'm sure he is gonna listen to this. And there's, there's phases of there's, there's phases of like excitement and adventure and responsibilities then and work and priorities. And sometimes you're drifting and other times you're, you're drawing closer. So, that's amazing that that experience became a drawing closer event. So I guess, but honey, we're not going to the Peace Corps. Maybe we'll go on a cruise or something.

Lucinda: 45:34

We learned never to blame each other. And he did not blame me. He did not blame me for this kind of fiasco. And we both learned to say, I know you're doing the best you can, honey. I know you are. I know you. We do that to this day. We still we talk about that period of our marriage and what we learned and we would still repeat lines that we, we used during that time to, you know, keep going.

Caroline: 46:01

Oh, wow. Now another theme throughout some of your books that I thought, oh wow, that's different. I didn't know that. Maybe I should do that now, is anytime there was a stress or a challenge or something. Yeah. Stress or challenge. You wrote about multiple instances of exercise, meditation, some sort of healthy outlet. How did that come about? Like where, where did, because I didn't do that. I would just stress and obsess or, and I feel like some other people do it. Like you'll stress, you're obsessed, you're gonna check out, you're going to try to compensate with some sort of substance, but yet what you compensated with was good for you.

Lucinda: 46:47

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caroline: 46:49

How did, how did you get that nugget? And for anybody else that didn't get it, Hey, guess what? If you're stressed, you can go exercise or you can even meditate and do yoga like waiting for a plane in the airport. Like what?

Lucinda: 47:03

Yeah. I think I learned that pretty young. My dad as much of a misogynist that he was, I picked up some things from him. He used to stand on his head every day. As long as I can remember and I now also stand on my head every day and he always told me like, don't stop doing, don't stop moving because it's hard to start again. So somehow I took that pretty young and I, when I started doing any sport or anything, I would just keep doing it and not stop because I didn't want to get, so, I mean, I've had to modify, you know, now, now I do yoga and swimming, biking, I mean, stuff that, you know, I don't play rugby or anything, but, I've learned that for me it's kind of essential, is, you know, it's endorphins. And then this part of this authentic self stuff that, that I I learned and really started doing. After I left the corporate world and was in the Peace Corps and then afterwards was spending time on my spiritual side, which I hadn't had a lot of opportunity to do in my life. And for me that's meditation. And I've really learned, I mean, I love it. I've become almost a, I mean, I don't wanna become evangelist about it, but it's so helpful for me. And so I meditate every day and I didn't really used to know how to do that, but in the last six or seven years I've learned. How to do it. And, it's just made such a difference in my life. I wish I'd, I wish I'd known how to do it sooner. I toyed with it, but I didn't really think it was for me.

Caroline: 48:48

And giving space to allow what, the universe, God, whoever, is wanting

Lucinda: 48:55

Yeah.

Caroline: 48:56

to move through you we spend so much of our time being a human doing, it's hard to be at the being. Yeah.

Lucinda: 49:05

Yeah. Yes. It really is, and it takes some time and attention that I never gave myself, and it's what I'm, and now it's, I feel so fortunate to have discovered this and been able to give this to myself in this time in my life. I can honestly say I have never been happier.

Caroline: 49:26

Oh, that's amazing. What is next for you? I know ACS is coming up in a in a little bit of time here, I think you're giving a talk or giving a course. What's, what are you doing at ACS ACS is American Chemical Society, so

Lucinda: 49:41

Right. A great organization that I discovered through my husband, who's been a member for 55 years or something. I was not a member I was a member of other organizations, but not this one. But, I discovered it. He sent me a that they were having a, a session at one of the meetings a few years ago about retirement there's a senior chemist group and I had just written a Project Escape about what to do after, you know, your career or your set, set career and so I was able to, I sent an abstract in and got my paper accepted. So I went to the meeting and that's how I met. I met everybody and kind of grew from there. So now I'm doing a lot of this similar kind of stuff that Caroline is doing. Yours is more organized than mine. I have, I have, my own.

Caroline: 50:34

I don't know how to make something simple. I was just talking to a client earlier. I was like, I'm a specialist, and so it's gonna be special and it's gonna be thorough and all the stuff,

Lucinda: 50:45

Still do that, because I think it's just a world. Wow. And, and it's, and now I've learned, I've specialized in scientists, so I do counseling for scientists, Retired or mid-career, and I also do for high school students and I'm really enjoying that. I have, I just did one last week and I have another one coming up Friday. And it's so hopeful seeing these just like 15, 16 years old kids, Who are interested in STEM and see what their, the last week we did one on you knows these really complicated genetic process, new processes and stuff. It's it's so interesting and, seeing these kids grasp it and then, and then we do a lot of career. You know, I give career and counseling to them, so I'm doing a whole gambit now. But specializing in STEM from kids all the way to old people because there's tons for scientists to do after they don't wanna work for somebody else until I started my own company.

Caroline: 51:50

How do people find you?

Lucinda: 51:52

Oh. mostly on my website Lucindajackson.com and I do public speaking. So I advertise a lot on LinkedIn. I guess that's my main media. Also Facebook'cause that's the where a lot of my clientele seems to hang out. My, my advice is pick two social media platforms and, and go there. And I post regularly and that's the kind of thing I do to keep my business going. But a lot of it's word of mouth. Usually when I give a public speaking event, then people come and talk to me

Caroline: 52:26

I like to focus on success and being authentic and authentic self and authentic success. And to me, I say authentic success is however you define it. How do you define authentic success for you in this chapter?

Lucinda: 52:41

For me, it's for sure my core values, which are success is having a noble purpose. Success is being authentic, being myself, not pretending to be somebody else, just being myself and see how that turns out. It's about freedom, personal freedom, adventure, a grasping adventure. It's about love. I used to, I had a, after the Peace Corps, I changed one of my values to romance because we'd had such a great time and, and now I've expanded it just to love. It sounds kind of sappy, but

Caroline: 53:22

No, it's It's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. Well, thank you so much Lucinda, for sharing more of your story and um, we'll put the links for the books and your LinkedIn and our show notes. But I appreciate you so much for coming and

Lucinda: 53:36

Thank you. It's been a blast talking to you.

53:40

Lucinda continues to lead with clarity, courage, and care. Her story reflects what's possible when you keep growing on purpose. This moment in your life holds momentum. Everything you've lived and learned becomes part of what you're able to build from now. You are equipped. You are ready, and your next success is already unfolding. For free tools and guidance to support your next chapter, Visit nextsuccesscareers.com. Please Share this episode with someone reflecting on their own transition and follow the show for more conversations that help you move forward with clarity and confidence. To learn more about Lucinda, her speaking and her books, remember to visit lucindajackson.com. Your next success is already unfolding. Keep going. You're not done yet.

Caroline: 54:37

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.