Caroline 0:02

what if the missing piece wasn't more effort but more alignment? What if the version of you who's calm, confident, and in control of your future isn't far off at all? Today's story is proof that when you pause, reflect, and realign, everything can change. Have you ever wondered, is this it? That question is the beginning of Your Next Success. I am Dr. Caroline Sangal, and this podcast is your space to pause, reflect, and create the career and life you were made for. We explore real stories, intentional transitions, and practical insights to help you step into alignment, purpose and peace.

0:55

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Renee, An incredible woman, operations leader, and now business owner who made the bold decision to step out of burnout and into the life that she was made for. You'll hear how going through the Next Success Method helped her uncover lifelong patterns, release old expectations, and reconnect with what brings her joy. We will talk about what really happened during coaching, what shifted in her mindset and identity and how it led her to a completely new career chapter. If you've ever felt like something needs to change, this is your invitation to listen in. Let's dive in.

Caroline's audio backup-5 1:41

Another assessment that we had worked on as part of the Next Success Method was the Highland's Ability Battery. What was your experience with that? Firstly, to hear like, Hey, by the way, I'd love for you to do this. There's 19 sections and it takes three hours, and then a two hour debrief.

Renee's audio backup-4 2:05

yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-5 2:06

Like, did you just do it 'cause you loved me or

Renee's audio backup-4 2:08

Kind of. Yeah, kind of. And because you were so convincing that it was so good, like you're like, all right, I know this is a pain. But you gotta do it like it's gonna be worth it. And so, okay,

Caroline's audio backup-5 2:21

And was it worth it?

Renee's audio backup-4 2:23

totally a hundred percent. I learned I was, that probably was, the biggest change and biggest understanding, out of all the predictive index and Enneagram and all the stuff you can, I know my colors and my animals and the flower and all these different things, but this Highlands Ability Battery, which I could not remember the name of for the longest time, but now I can remember. It really. Was pretty amazing and told me some things that I didn't know, about myself. Like I have zero musical pitch ability and now I just own it. It's okay. I always joke that I got my singing ability from my mom. I got so many amazing things from her, but she did not know how to sing, and I got that ability from her. So now it's proven, it's documented. So it's okay. I go to church, I sing. Anyway. It's okay. I just say, I am not a good singer. It's okay. And, so, yeah, but it was based on the tests that we took and it really was a pretty, I don't know if grueling, I got it all done in one big session. I guess I'm that put your head down and work through it kind of person. So, I know some of the other people in our little cohort, went through it. And did it over the course of a couple days. So I know there's a way to get it done. It can work around families and schedules and all the things. Quite frankly, I'm, also a procrastinator of those things. So, I think it was due on a certain day and I had just said, all right, well, I've got today. To do it and I'm gonna do it all at one time. So the testing was pretty thorough. And, some of the parts that I knew from, taking other sort of standardized testing, the engineering type parts of it, I did really well. Is engineering award. I feel like it's a word now. Uh,

Caroline's audio backup-5 4:04

I think engineers should be a word. If it's not, we're making it.

Renee's audio backup-4 4:06

Making it work. But there were, you know, where you flip the blocks and you do the thing, like, I had tons of extra time. I went through it twice, and,

Caroline's audio backup-5 4:13

Oh wow. Yeah, that's like spatial relations theory and spatial relations visualization. So imagine you had a Lego assembly and then you rotate it and you wanna know how it looks, but it's all only shown as diagrams on a paper. Or like a paper folding exercise. Here's a paper. It got folded. Holes are punched. Now you open it. I think you rocked it.

Renee's audio backup-4 4:33

Yeah. And I expected I would do pretty well at those, but it showed the difference between those of us in our cohort, which is one of the cool things of going through a cohort with people that I didn't know that were from all over the country, that, had different backgrounds in different education and different strengths. All around the disc, I think we were all over the disc. I think none of us had great musical ability, other than you, but ours were all pretty rough. But aside from that, we were pretty spread out of different things. So, yeah, it was just neat to contrast that to, some of my other weaknesses that I have. Definitely the music one was, you had to wear headphones and you had to listen to different tones and pitches, and I really thought I did a great job on it, and it turns out that that is totally a weakness of mine.

Caroline's audio backup-5 5:19

And so what did you gain aside from like, okay, that's fun and now I know this thing, but what tangible or wonderful information to help you understand more about yourself? What'd you get from that

Renee's audio backup-4 5:32

Yeah, so the Highlands Ability Battery, I think it's called a battery because it, it's based on a holistic whole body, whole person ideology of your whole self. So it looked at me and forced me to decide. What are the things that I actually like to do? What are the things I'm interested in doing? What are the things I'm not interested in doing? What are my values? And I've done those through different things in the past, but, this then had us build our own value statement and

Caroline's audio backup-5 6:11

Yeah, and this is the don't, so beyond the Highland's Ability Battery, which Highland's Ability Battery helped you know how you lead, how you learn, how you work, how you problem solve, the kinds of roles where you thrive, all of that. Then we did Don't Waste Your Talent, which was a much more intensive program to go through each part of that holistic model of what can really help somebody with career satisfaction.

Renee's audio backup-4 6:35

Yeah. And so now we have a framework of what we value and what we care about and what we don't care about. It allows you to really determine who you are as a person in this moment, and I love that it was all a draft.

Caroline's audio backup-5 6:51

Yes. You make a draft. So you go through, there's eight different components for a holistic vision of who somebody is. So where is somebody in their career development stage as far as, are they 18 years old and fresh? Are they, you know, getting ready to retire? What are they willing to do because of that? What about your natural abilities? So how are you inherently hardwired? What are the things that are amazing about you and each thing. Is for a reason. So even if you're low on an ability, like you're low in music, but that's sets you up for success in other things, right? You're not getting bogged down by that. Then your interests. So what fascinates you? Your skills of what did you spend time, effort, and energy to learn your personal style? So are you an introvert, extrovert, generalist specialist? Your disc communication style goes into there. Your family, your family of origin. Your family that you have now both influence what could be a great fit for your life and your career, your values, your goals, all of that. We consider over a few weeks, lots of probing activities and then you make a draft of what you want for your vision of your life.

Renee's audio backup-4 7:58

You

Caroline's audio backup-5 7:58

Then a draft for the vision of your career and draft is a key word there, especially for people like you and I, because otherwise there's this pressure to get it right and get a hundred and feel like it's gotta be a final thing. I just saw, I went to this amazing conference with women last week in Greenville, South Carolina, and there were women of all ages and stages in this room. Amazing, phenomenally, lots of great success in their careers and things that they've overcome come in their lives that you would never expect by seeing just different people face to face. And there was a 20-something-year-old, bright, amazing young woman who wanted to eat lunch with me and another person in the conference. And she was saying, "Well, 'cause I'm just trying to figure out, you know, the next 40 years of my career, I'm just really, I'm just hoping you can help me figure it out." And I'm like, oh girl, let's pause. Like I, I get it. I was there. You were there. And you just like, here's what I want to help people know. This questioning is normal and you don't have to figure out 40 years. You can try to figure out the next year, the next four months, but if you're feeling some sort of way about wherever you are, whatever career you're in in this moment, that feeling is trying to tell you something and you could either override it and keep pushing through for 18 years, or you could listen and try to see like, how can you get closer? Closer to what you're wanting, closer to what you're wanting for your life or your career. Okay, so you made a draft and then what?

Renee's audio backup-4 9:52

And made a couple drafts. I like that it was repetitive. So we made a draft and then we come back a week later and then they'd, give you some more information. You tweak your draft a little bit. And it's still a draft, quite frankly. It's not perfect. I added something to it, just a few weeks ago. I found a section that was missing and I wanted to make sure that was included. And there's no right way to do it. Some people put it into a story. Some people use paragraphs minus bullet points because that's the way my brain functions and it works in bullet points that way. So, yeah, that was one of the things that I really got out of it. You mentioned your family of origin and your current family and the exercise to, dig into how your family. The people that raised you, whatever that looks like. How they viewed their job and their work and their career and their livelihood and all the things they did for fun and for work and to make money, and what did they think about that? As I mentioned, both my mother and father had passed away at the time were taking this test and going through it, and I was sad that I didn't have that, but I feel like I got an absolute blessing to be able to talk to my relatives. In a way that I wouldn't have if I just had heard from my mom or maybe from my dad. You know, I got a different sense of things and I learned so many amazing things and had a lot of dots connected into. How my dad was raised and how my grandparents were raised and why, I have that put my head down and work hard mentality. I think a lot of that comes from that family of origin. And taking all of that information, it's all information, right? And things that you maybe didn't know. And putting that together. And then like you mentioned, we talked about our career. We drafted what we want our career to look like and. It wasn't for me about the titles, it was about the feeling. How do you want your career to feel and how do you want to be at work? And then I could hold up the mirror and see, am I that way now? And I wasn't. And that's when I knew something had to change. Where I wasn't working. And so I, you and I worked really hard on situations and how can I do things differently? What could I see differently? How can I see it from a different perspective? And that anger started to melt away and I was starting to value people differently and understand myself and the anger that I was feeling, in a different way.

Caroline's audio backup-5 12:49

And I remember one part of it though, like when we first started working together and you were talking about some things that were going on at work. You felt that like you weren't in control of those and decisions were being made by other people, and you just got to get whatever the result was from them. And then through this process, it started to shift. And there was a point where I remember you saying, and now you know what you're going to do. You are now leading your future. You're no longer reacting to what they say you can or can't do a promotion. You may or may not have a promise that may or may not come true. Then all of a sudden you took the reins of your own career. How was that? And then what did that start to open up for you?

Renee's audio backup-4 13:45

Yeah, that was a big turning point and it was, the culmination of all these things we've been discussing came together and made me realize that I have control over all the things in my life and my career and, how I want to be and how I want to show up is how I get to be and how I get to show up. I don't owe anybody something. I don't have to live in another person's story. I can do what I wanna do for me. So, my year focused around joy and happiness and bringing those things back into my life. Things have gotten continually better as I realized that I was in control of who I wanted to be.

Caroline's audio backup-5 14:36

And so, part of that-after-you did it, not everybody, makes this sort of choice, but part of what you decided, after this vision and really thinking about what you wanted for your future, you decided to engage in doing something different. Tell us a little bit about that part.

Renee's audio backup-4 14:59

Yeah. So, as this whole journey has been, I feel like it's been led to me, divinely. I would love to take credit for all of these amazing things that have fallen into place, but, I sure won't. I started, just networking with people and talking to people, and I think partly because now my, anger was gone and I was more open to hearing other things. Hearing how other people saw me and my strengths, not just my weaknesses that some people saw. I was now hearing the strengths that some people brought to me. And a good friend of mine asked, well, why don't you own your own company? And I had never really considered it in my head. And I think because I got it from my family that I went and worked for somebody else and worked my way up to become the president of a company. And when I realized that wasn't exactly my wish, that was what I'd been told for a lot of years. That expectation was set. Then I realized the things I wanna do. Are bigger and I wanna help young girls that are in middle school and in high school, and I want them to have the same advantages I had through the University of Akron. We had women in engineering and we were taught how to have an interview and what to order for lunch on an interview. I mean, there were just things that I wanna share with other young girls I care deeply about my community and wanting to be a good member of our society being joyful and happy has always been a very real part of me. And the best way for me to do that was for me to be the one in control of what I wanna do and how I go about that. And me being the one, setting the culture

Caroline 17:10

Imagine what your life would be like if your career aligned with who you are, what you do best, and actually fueled the life you want. At Next Success, we support all ages and stages through career transitions from students exploring majors or careers to job seekers actively searching or re-imagining their next move to professionals committed to self-awareness and leadership growth. Stay connected and explore what's possible at nextsuccesscareers.com and follow nextsuccessmethod on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. So let's get back to it, because once Renee reconnected with what she really wanted, she didn't just get clarity, she got her spark back, and things started to unfold in the most unexpected but aligned way.

Renee's audio backup-4 18:09

So I started looking into, some different things and I found a book, that turned into a course that turned into, some podcasts and, other things that I was just absorbing as much information as I could get and looking for a business. And, I have been very blessed to have one that, I don't wanna say, fell into my lap. Maybe that, seems, like I didn't have enough work into it.

Caroline's audio backup-5 18:37

Oh, but you set your intention. Here's the thing. Throughout the process of coming up with what were your values and what you wanted. For your career, the mission, vision, values of your career and the mission, vision, values of yourself. You had been working for over a year on setting intentions of what you wanted your life to be so you could live fully you. And so you also had not rushed, there were other opportunities that came in your radar. I remember there was a time where you were specifically saying, yeah, and. I'm gonna wait and make sure that I find the right thing for me. And so when this opportunity came around, you were able to notice that it did. Match what you had set for your intentions. Like you put your, I mean, I don't know, like it's a little fru or woo woo, right? Like, I mean, manifestation and all that. I feel like it's just kind of also like prayer, right? So I'm not necessarily trying to manifest, but I am gonna go ahead and say. Hey, God, St. Philomena, this would be

Renee's audio backup-4 19:46

Yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-5 19:47

if only I could use all my educational knowledge, experience, actually help people so that they can not just survive, but thrive and love their life and their career fuels it. Like, boy, that would be amazing. And now here I kind of get to do that. Past things that you've done had a use and a value, and even some of the challenges you had to see and overcome, had a use and a value, and then you've selected something to kind of go after now.

Renee's audio backup-4 20:22

I'm super excited to be launching my own business. It was a hard decision, to leave my last job. I liked what I did and the owner of our company is just amazing and I learned so many amazing things from there over 18 years. And I can take those amazing things now and make them part of my new company and I'll be able to develop it in a way that aligns exactly with my goals and my vision and hire and bring people on that do meet those as well.

Caroline's audio backup-5 20:54

Now one other part of the program that we didn't touch on yet that was kind of something we've been working on this year has been a program called Positive Intelligence pq.

Renee's audio backup-4 21:07

Yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-5 21:07

Help me understand your experience about that. What value has that brought to you?

Renee's audio backup-4 21:15

So I feel like, it's easier to see it in other people. When you told me about the program and how this was like the next pillar and I said, oh, sign my husband up for it, please. Because he is the one who needs it. And I thought, well, he's not gonna do it if I don't do it, so we're gonna do it. So sign us up. We we're in whatever it is, we're in this, it sounds amazing. So I you recommended the book. So I had started reading the book already, and I was like, oh, huh, there's some work I need to do here too. Then this year we launched, full-time into the. PQ program and it has truly helped me to see, gosh, those. Those things that I was judging in myself and in other people and the ways that I was sabotaging things in my own life because of these voices that were telling me These. These lies and, I can see it in other people and now I see it everywhere in movies and in books and you,

Caroline's audio backup-5 22:26

There's the judge again.

Renee's audio backup-4 22:27

Yeah. Like, oh, he's playing the victim.

Caroline's audio backup-5 22:33

Pleaser.

Renee's audio backup-4 22:34

Right, right. And Shirzad Chamine just makes it super easy and fun and playful and does a great job. But then on top of that, we've had our coaching and so you've helped walk through each one of these steps as well. And we had this benefit of. Not only being friends from a ton of years ago and having a history and having a lot of friends in common and values and core values of our faith in common. We then walk through all these hard steps doing the disc and the HAB and all of the parts that we had. And then to get to this, I don't know, it feels like a sort of crowning moment of doing PQ

Caroline's audio backup-5 23:18

like authentic success?

Renee's audio backup-4 23:20

It feels like authentic success.

Caroline's audio backup-5 23:24

An authentic success is what you get from doing the next success method. We take next chapter Explorers and help them become authentic success creators by working through the next success method, which comprises of the your natural abilities, your communication behavior, your mental fitness and resilience, and having an integrated vision of what you want for your life and then your career. And then you get to define. What you want that to be. And then you get to work on making a massive action plan to align your things that you're doing for your career with your life. And so now you feel like you're on the verge of authentic success.

Renee's audio backup-4 24:02

I sincerely do. And it's more than just words. It is more than words. It is the truth. It is exactly how I feel now. I feel confident and comfortable with who I am. It's not perfect, and I know that, but authentic success is not perfect. It's not perfection. It's knowing who you are and using those talents and skills and laughing at the times when the judge comes or you can't sing a note at some event and knowing that's who I am now it feels so comfortable and I.

Caroline's audio backup-5 24:40

Because you're living into who you're made to be. And your worth was never up for question, never up for anybody else's interpretation embracing and understanding you are made this way on purpose for purpose. Only you can do, and you gotta like let go of everybody else's stuff and embrace and bring it on in who you are and all these great things and everything that's happened. Every challenge, every season, every single thing. Though it sucks at the time, some of 'em, but like they've brought you to now and had it not been painful enough for me to realize I am totally made for more and this is not doing it for me. And had it not been for you to be like, you know, I think that there's maybe something else out there or to, you know, trust on this process, sometimes we have to experience the pain to make us change I kept pushing through and trying to overcome and succeed anyway, and it wasn't even my version, you know? So now as you are on this verge of authentic success, what kind of like values or purpose do you feel like you're now getting to live out that you had dampened before?

Renee's audio backup-4 25:54

I value knowledge and education. I realized that I, not that I value a degree that's not it, but I value. Teaching people things and having other people teach me things. And I value that in my relationships.

Caroline's audio backup-5 26:16

What values or purpose do you now get to live out that you didn't, do before?

Renee's audio backup-4 26:20

Oh, and my word this year is joy. I want there to be joy in the things I do and the things I say. And I want that to be the rest of my life. I think just joy. Sure there are things that we all have to do. I don't love washing dishes. But you know what, I'm going to joyfully put away clean dishes because I'm happy that they're clean and I'm gonna get to laugh with people and be more relaxed and more joyful. I think that spending quality time with people has always been, one of my love languages. And, so that is being present and not. Wanting to hide in my phone or in my computer or, just walking through life trying to not be present. I wanna be present and I wanna spend time with. My friends and when I'm there, I wanna be there. And, I want to be that way in my business. I want my business to be present and joyful and caring. I have a list of values, but I think Joyful is the one for this season for sure.

Caroline's audio backup-5 27:31

So how did going through this sort of coaching help you make a leap with clarity instead of chaos?

Renee's audio backup-4 27:38

Ah, Ooh. I got to evaluate my situation and compare it to where I wanted to be, and when I realized there wasn't a good fit there. Any longer, whether it was me changing or them changing, it didn't matter. There was no fault. It was just different and it was different enough that I could find something that matched. And when I found that it, everything seemed to line up. And even though it's scary to leave a career and start a whole new company, something I'm not familiar with. It's a whole new industry I've never even been in, but the core values align and they align with my values, and that's like, it's made it a lot easier.

Caroline's audio backup-5 28:47

What would you say to someone listening who feels unseen, stuck, maybe like they're wasting their gifts or they don't even know what they're doing anymore. Like what would you say to them?

Renee's audio backup-4 29:00

If you're avoiding anything, going out with your friends, being with your family, if you're binge watching TV instead of living your life and not that binge watching is bad, but if you're not living your life, there's more. You can be truly happy, and I don't mean happy, like skipping around all the time. I mean, feeling content, feeling valued, knowing that the decisions you're making are good for your family and your life. I didn't ever feel like I was in a toxic place. I never felt that the environment I was in was toxic or was bad. It just didn't feel good. And it's not anybody's fault. Like I said, it's, if you can know who you are. And look at your current situation and determine what parts of that may match and what parts don't match. And then you have the power to change the parts that don't match and make it something that you wanna do. And there is a reason that we're all so different. And being in that cohort with those different women, all amazing in different respects and seeing that they also found their power and their happiness and followed the steps. It's not just me that can have this feeling of, of being happy. And, even though days are hard, it's a different kind of hard now it's, it's just work and figuring things out versus not feeling good and wanting to put on my sweats and. Sit on the couch and I'm finally feeling love for myself. And if you're not feeling love for yourself then, then there's a reason. And I feel love for myself. I wanna take care of myself. I wanna take care of my family in a different way. And I have enough love now, that it's, it's, I've taken care of myself enough that now I want to, it's spilling over into other things. And I'm really excited to see where that goes. And I know that there are other people out there who look successful, who maybe have tons of friends who are always laughing and having a good time, but then when they go home, they're hiding.

Caroline's audio backup-5 31:47

What would you recommend that they do then if they start to notice that this is kind of how they're feeling, what would you say they should do to try to get out of that?

Renee's audio backup-4 32:01

Yeah, maybe. The first step would be asking your loved ones what they've noticed maybe in the last days, weeks, months, years, maybe about. If, they are living up to their potential or if they are who they thought, if they're taking care of themself or their loved ones, just, just get curious about why, why life is the way it is right now. Get curious and, and decide if you want to stay the way you are. And you're okay with that? Or if you, you want to break out of that, that space that you're in now and become something different. And, I mean, I know this is gonna sound like the advertisement, but of course they should contact you and start, start their next success and work toward their next success with you. Honestly, I wish I could have everyone I know and love go through your program. Having conversations with friends and even my godsons, my goddaughter, nieces and nephews, they're young people, but they're already formed and they're starting to make those decisions I made so early and those assumptions so early and so young I just want them to know that they don't have to wait until they're in their forties or, fifties, you don't have to wait until you're older and spent years doing something else to really do what you want to do and feel good doing.

Caroline's audio backup-5 33:47

and I know you're just embarking on this new journey. I definitely wanna kind of keep in touch and, and be able to have more of that unfold. Have you come on back and probably be a recurring guest if you're open to it. Are there any last things you want to say or share in this current thing?

Renee's audio backup-4 34:15

It's been an exciting year and a half, and, I thought that our work together would be a couple of weeks and I would learn all the things I needed to and I would be done I thought. Okay. Why? There's so many pillars. I don't understand what's gonna take so long, but okay. Whatever. You know, friend, we'll go through it all. I sincerely can't imagine doing it any faster. It takes what it takes. There is life happening and, it's been quite an adventure, quite a journey, and I love it. I know that, other people in my life have seen a difference and I know they will continue to see my joyful side and, I'm excited about that.

Caroline's audio backup-5 34:58

Awesome. I'm super excited for you, for your future, for all the g reat things. Every single thing you do turns to gold.

Renee's audio backup-4 35:05

With a lot of work.

Caroline's audio backup-5 35:06

awesome.

Renee's audio backup-4 35:07

Yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-5 35:08

But that's okay. We're

Renee's audio backup-4 35:09

Yep. Absolutely.

Caroline's audio backup-5 35:10

thank you so much for joining us on the podcast, We're definitely looking forward to learning more about you and your next success as you keep going.

Renee's audio backup-4 35:20

Awesome. Thanks. Have a good day.

35:23

Renee's story is one of courage, clarity, and choosing joy even when it's hard. She didn't run from burnout. She paused, reflected and reimagined what success could look like, and now she's building something beautiful, a business and a life aligned with her values, vision and purpose. if you want to reclaim your own story, don't wait for burnout to be the sign. Download the Free Navigating Career Transitions Guide and begin exploring what's next on your terms. And if you wanna hear how Renee's new chapter unfolds, be sure to follow the show because we'll check in with her later this year. Until then, remember, you are allowed to want more. You are allowed to change, and your next success is already within reach. I'll see you next time. Keep going. You're not done yet.

Caroline 36:19

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.