Caroline: 0:02

What if everything you've accomplished so far has been leading you right here to a moment of clarity? What if the pressure you've been feeling lately is actually pointing to something more aligned, more meaningful, and more true to who you are? And what if this season is the beginning of something better? Have you ever wondered, is this it? That question is the beginning of Your Next Success. I am Dr. Caroline Sangal, and this podcast is your space to pause, reflect, and create the career and life you were made for. We explore real stories, intentional transitions, and practical insights to help you step into alignment, purpose and peace. In today's episode, you'll hear from Renee. A brilliant, highly accomplished operations leader who built her career with purpose, excellence, and impact. She's the kind of person who brings energy into a room, lifts others up, and gets things done. Over time, though, the weight of growing responsibilities, personal loss, and the unspoken pressure to hold everything together, began to wear her down inside and outside of work. In part one of our conversation, you'll hear how it all built up and the moment she gave herself permission to pause, reflect, and reach out. This episode is about resilience, reflection, and the power of recognizing when something needs to shift so you can create the space to reconnect with yourself.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 1:56

Renee, help me understand a little bit about you, your career history, all of those kinds of fun things, however you'd like to start.

Renee's audio backup-3: 2:09

So I think I'd like to start with, growing up on a farm in Guernsey County, my parents had moved from Detroit, Michigan. They were the, green acres, of folks. So they moved from the big city and bought a farm with no farming experience and that taught me so many things, just resourcefulness and willing to try anything. My parents built their own house and had a garden, cows, a horse, and, a little crazy farm that a lot of people dream of. They made a reality. So that's how I grew up. Unfortunately, my, my father passed away of cancer when I was little, I was 10 and my mom raised me and as I was growing up, she always noticed that I like to tinker with things and make things better and solve all the problems. So as I was in high school, she said, all the presidents of all the companies I've ever worked for have been engineers, and I think you could be an engineer. So go to school and be an engineer. And if you find something you like better, then fine. You can do whatever you want. She never limited me or forced me into it. And I thought engineering sounds pretty good. So getting into the University of Akron, it was amazing. enjoyed the classes and, maybe I took a non-traditional route of college. I ended up working full-time, getting my degree, mechanical engineering technology but i got some great work experience in ther e

Caroline's audio backup-4: 3:36

for yourself, right? right

Renee's audio backup-3: 3:39

Yeah, a whole lot of it. We had some bonds that we had from my grandparents that we cashed in and took out some loans, but, that wasn't enough to cover all of it. There was actually a semester that I carried baggies of change down to Spicer Hall and counted out quarters and nickels and dimes for I don't know how long. It was a long time with the Registrar down there back when you did things in person there was a hall to go to. You didn't just send a credit card. That was my career of college.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 4:07

And when you are in college, where did you work?

Renee's audio backup-3: 4:11

Yeah, so I worked at a few different places. I worked at Rob's Dining Hall. So I got up early in the morning and helped with breakfast and set up all the breakfasts lines and worked with the kitchen staff and helped with that. I also worked on the Residence Life and Housing Board there for RHPB. We worked on that together and

Caroline's audio backup-4: 4:32

spoiler alert we've known other for

Renee's audio backup-3: 4:35

while

Caroline's audio backup-4: 4:36

for

Renee's audio backup-3: 4:36

while. little so um so, So that paid for room and board and that's the reason I got into that and then I also was an RA for, a year over in Grant Hall and, I worked with, Carl Crow, hall and and and uh lot lot, uh, A lot about office work and just getting along with people. He was very, understanding to work for and a really great guy. Yeah. Lots of jobs

Caroline's audio backup-4: 5:07

to get through. And then, so I'm a big proponent of it's take Yep is the necessary thing. But you said something like it took a little while, how long did it take you to go through college?

Renee's audio backup-3: 5:21

Yeah. The typical program is five years with a internship. So I did an internship, and, it took me nine years. Part of that was because I worked for a company that ended up closing and, promised to pay for my degree, my classes, and they didn't. So working at a barely minimum wage job, I had to save enough money to pay for a whole semester on my own that I thought was going covered.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 5:44

So there was a company and it sounded like a great deal for you to work for them, and in return they were gonna invest and you

Renee's audio backup-3: 5:51

absolutely. absolutely.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 5:53

Yeah. what kind of a company was that?

Renee's audio backup-3: 5:57

Yeah, so we made street light poles. It was a really neat company. internship job and job and job, and, I I I think I got the job purely persistence and And And And I liked the company. I thought it was a cool idea. It was a newer company. I think I might have been their second engineer, or maybe third that they had hired and I got to do a bunch of stuff. It was a small company, my first real manufacturing job, and I got to see things get built. It was really, truly amazing to see how all the people worked together. There was one accountant and one purchasing agent, and one like main engineer and eventually I became the project manager there and managed the projects and it was just a really cool very small hands-on company. But. The president of the company, unfortunately, ended up being a crook and he took some money from some folks and did some bad things and yeah, so one of those things was promising to pay for my education and, so on good faith, took that and didn't know to have contracts and things like that in place at a age of, I think, maybe 19, 20, when I started there. It was just Like

Caroline's audio backup-4: 7:15

So even though that. this is the recurring theme with you, Renee, I believe, is that there is some sort of challenge that could be completely debilitating for other people, and yet you just rise up and you're like, okay, next. And that happened and I'm gonna keep going towards my goal. I'm gonna keep do doing what I believe is right. Where do you think that comes from?

Renee's audio backup-3: 7:43

Yeah. Really, I guess my parents, that is, that's really how you know they. Started a farm and they didn't have farming experience. Nobody in their family had real farming experience. And my dad had a wood shop and we would just make stuff all the time and we'd make puzzles, and if things didn't work, we'd try it again and, I would say he probably was, my dad was probably the biggest, person in my life, I was always daddy's girl. Being on the farm and I would collect eggs from the chickens and, just that almost a movie set. I couldn't even ask for anything better as a child growing up in Guernsey County on a farm and being able to do anything I wanted to make anything or try anything I wanted to.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 8:26

And just that like resilience, and work ethic, ability to see something through even if you don't see the immediate result. Okay, so the place promised to pay for your education. That fell through and then you still persisted to do it anyway and what happened? Walk us through that.

Renee's audio backup-3: 8:47

Yeah, so then I got married some people talk about, oh, you can't get married until after you graduate from college, And I don't know that I would've finished my degree had I have not married my husband, Todd. He pushed me to go to school when we didn't have two nickels to rub together and we worked so hard and he just, he was always working. Eventually we, found a real small apartment in a pretty crummy kind of neighborhood and, we made it work. And, I finished my degree, I worked, full-time. I ended up taking 21 senior level engineering credits to finish my degree. I was working for another company at that point then, the first company, the streetlight pole company, closed and, so I got another job and they said they had an engineering position open, but I had to finish my degree and so I crammed in as much as I could, and, I got one semester, I literally didn't have a holiday for an entire fall semester just to get 21 engineering credits, full-time work and sometimes sleep in there.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 9:54

was the company that you were working for then? Yeah so Yeah so

Renee's audio backup-3: 9:58

so so Yeah wrap used used wrap used an an an an company an back in the day, but, yeah, I think I can share the company, LINPAC Film Co. And they were based out of a European country and so I got to travel and do some truly amazing projects there. It was such a great experience working there and it was the first manufacturing plant that I'd been in that was big enough and had support from other companies and other branches. They had multiple people in different departments, so I could kinda see how that level worked.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 10:36

Were there any other women?

Renee's audio backup-3: 10:37

For a little while I worked for, the purchasing manager and she pulled me out of the maintenance stuff where I had started doing maintenance purchasing and she gave me a job doing purchasing for like raw materials and some of the components and things that we used. and there was a lot of support staff there, but typically coming from the engineering and maintenance side, I worked with all men. I was all of 23 years old and I had to walk into a maintenance department with well seasoned guys. So you can imagine those guys are in their fifties and sixties and, at first, I worked with them and then eventually they reported to me. It was a, an interesting shift, but we a that enjoyed enjoyed that enjoyed that lot

Caroline's audio backup-4: 11:24

you break through? Because sometimes being one of the only women in a department of much more experienced people, there could be a little bit of a interesting looks or opinions, but how did you,

Renee's audio backup-3: 11:41

for sure.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 11:42

what was your tactic to push through that or gain their trust

Renee's audio backup-3: 11:47

yeah. I don't know if it was a tactic, but one of my first days there, the roughest, gruffest guy in the maintenance crew who always wore the cutoff shirts and was known to be the like number one welder and nobody kinda screwed with him, he walked up to me and you're gonna have to up up up me

Caroline's audio backup-4: 12:07

I'm gonna have to bleep just stuff just just sayin not from you. From me.

Renee's audio backup-3: 12:16

yes. he walked up to me and he said, I don't know what kind of sense of humor you have. I said you're just gonna have to try and find out and we'll see. I'm maybe 22 at this point, right? And he said bitch, get me a bearing. I just looked at them and I wasn't quite sure what to say and I said, what kind of bearing would you like? Roller bearing, ball bearing? You're gonna have to be a little more specific, and he just laughed and walked away and I think that might've been like my first real day.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 12:50

You rolled with the punches.

Renee's audio backup-3: 12:51

you

Caroline's audio backup-4: 12:52

and And

Renee's audio backup-3: 12:54

he wasn't, that kind of guy, he just wanted to see where the barriers were and boundaries and how far he could push it, and, once he got through it, he was just a super sweet guy and very nice, and honestly, the whole department really took care of me. I don't know if I'd say like I was their daughter, but they certainly took care of me and I felt that way. I felt appreciated and we worked well together and it was good.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 13:21

So then what happened?

Renee's audio backup-3: 13:23

So after, about six years at that company, I got to travel internationally and work with people in France and England, and went to those countries and South America. I got to go to Uruguay and made good friends with some of our coworkers down there. it was such a great job. I loved it. But, I wasn't looking for a job. A headhunter called me and he said, what would it take for you to come work for this company? And so I asked for everything I could imagine. I raised my price more than what I thought, which, by the way, now, it was very low. It was not a very high starting wage, but I had worked my way up in my career. Now I have my engineering degree, i'd been an engineer for a little over a year, starting on those lower rungs and, I went for an interview at that company asking for everything, and I didn't have anything to lose, so I was very calm and confident. I think that was one of the things that maybe set me apart from the other engineers who maybe were, really, looking for that job. And I wasn't, I could totally be myself. And a few of the guys there that interviewed me really saw that and they offered me the job and I took it and with tears in my eyes, I left my friends at my company that had been there for six years and traveled with and went years start years yeah, So

Caroline's audio backup-4: 14:54

interestingly, it all started with that with a headhunter and a conversation about an opportunity that you didn't even know Yep. and then you took a leap of faith and ended up having 18 years there. What was it that made you choose to do that, to take a leap of faith after you interviewed, like what, what made you decide that thing?

Renee's audio backup-3: 15:25

yeah I think I was looking for, I'll call it a little more respect. At the company I'd been with for six years, I had worked my way up from maintenance purchasing to a purchasing clerk, then through a couple different jobs there, and then ended up being the engineer for the company and, they, I got the impression that it was just another raise for getting a whole degree. It wasn't moving that bar high enough to say, yes, we value you now as an engineer, I was still the Renee who got married and went to school and then just got a degree, it was just another step in that space, and even though we had accomplished some really big projects, we made equipment in different countries and worked with teams that spoke different languages and had to arrange things over. If you have ever worked with French companies, they shut down for the month of August. So we had to get everything done on a deadline and ship it overseas and be ready to start in September when they got back and had people from multiple countries here speaking multiple languages, and we had accomplished all of that. Now, I was just one part of it. I was certainly not, I'm not taking credit for all of that, but I was certainly part of that and I don't think that they valued that position. And I, I don't think it was because I was a female engineer. I really don't. I just think it was, they didn't value that position and and what I could bring or what I could do for the company.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 17:11

And so when you had another opportunity of the recruiter seeing something in you greater than you saw yourself, and then that company offering growth, etc.

Renee's audio backup-3: 17:27

Everything that I for. Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 17:30

a good, it seemed like a good move. Now, you mentioned that back in the day your mom had said something about being a president of companies and thought you could do that sort of thing. What did you think? What, when, what did you consider as far as when you're in your high school self or younger self, what did you think success would look like or what did you think you wanted your career to be?

Renee's audio backup-3: 17:58

Yeah, that, that's great. We've talked about this over the last year and a half as we've worked through this program, and I, I really, it was just part of what my life was gonna be to be the president of a company. Like I, it was never even a question of whether I'd go to college. There was, and I asked my mom one time, how did you do that? You never said you had to go to college. And she said, I just talked about what would happen after you did those things. And yep. She said oh, after college then you can get a car, or then you can, whatever I wanted at the time, she would say after college then you'll be able to afford your own car, or whatever it was. And little things like, when I was getting ready for prom, I remember my mom did my hair and had it all perfect. And she said, now that's your White House hair. When you House, And And And painting painting so

Caroline's audio backup-4: 18:54

me I

Renee's audio backup-3: 18:54

Right Right

Caroline's audio backup-4: 18:55

Right

Renee's audio backup-3: 18:57

have picture picture pictures picture picture picture picture and, yeah, it was so she never told me what I had to be, but she set those expectations and set them quite high. And so it wasn't until, you and I started working together that I realized that maybe that wasn't my dream, or maybe it was, but it was how I got there. Was more because she set that as an expectation. And so I quite honestly, I joked with the president of the company that I was in for 18 years, that someday I wanted his job as president and I meant it. And so I expected to be president of a company. seemed seemed seemed old I. like maturity like maturity and where you had your stuff all together, you knew exactly what life was gonna be like and at 35, that's the way it goes. Yeah I had a whole life plan of exactly how things were gonna go. And we're working on most of it, but now I think. With the work that you and I have done together that now it's more even more flushed out and more

Caroline's audio backup-4: 20:07

let's talk a little bit about that. So we've heard a little bit here of you were at a company for 18 years. You left the company you had been before because of the growth and the opportunities and something must have happened that you stayed at a company for 18 years. But yet then we've been. Aside from being friends, we did lose touch for a little bit of time. Although, like anybody, that's actually my friend, it's okay. A day, a decade, anything can go by and the minute we get back together, it's like nothing ever changed. let's talk a little bit about before the calm before the storm. So you were at a company for 18 years, you came in and you started at what position, and then you worked your way up a lot and had quite big responsibilities. Let's help our listeners understand a little bit about that before we get into the nitty gritty.

Renee's audio backup-3: 21:01

Yeah. So I started as plant engineer and maintenance manager. Maybe I forget exactly the title, but I got to run the maintenance and engineering. There was no engineering at the plant and that was me. So I also worked with the maintenance department. made, we were in the rubber and plastics industry And so dip molded parts and extruded TPEs mostly for medical, dental industry. A few other little side things, but mostly that. And so we had, just under 200 employees and three different buildings all in northeast Ohio and I had maintenance guys and all three of the buildings and my initial jobs were things around setting up programs. So we didn't have a safety program and I had a real passion for safety and I worked to develop an entire program for the whole company. We used some bits and pieces of other company other safety programs and brought in the parts that worked for us and, set that up and did all the training for all three plants, and we had all multiple shifts at the plant. So I was doing all sorts of training. I got to know all the employees. I really enjoyed that part of it. There was it was a lot, but it was amazing. We developed a preventative maintenance program. There wasn't really one when I started there, so I worked with the maintenance guys and we, first of all, we had to identify every piece of equipment that we owned and start figuring out how we were going to do the work on these to keep'em. Keep'em working efficiently and stop all of the breakdowns. We were constantly fighting fires and there was equipment down, and we'd miss orders because we couldn't really track how things were going. Equipment, large equipment would break down often. And even to the point where we had fires because equipment wasn't managed well and there would be bearings would fail and wear holes and shafts, and then the shafts would fall and things would catch fire. It was a mess.

23:48

I'm Dr. Caroline Sangal let's continue listening to Renee's journey to authentic success.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 23:53

How were they able?'cause this is something a lot of companies, particularly chemical related companies, that started out. Grew to bigger, lots of them didn't have preventative maintenance and some of the mindsets of those sorts of companies were like we don't have

Renee's audio backup-3: 24:09

Mm

Caroline's audio backup-4: 24:10

stop and do all this. How did you overcome that? or was it a fire or some bigger thing? Okay, what was it that made them buy in that preventative maintenance was a good deal.

Renee's audio backup-3: 24:27

I think some of it was just continuously bringing up the fact that we were fixing things multiple times. And when we said if we're gonna fix it and we fix it right the first time, we don't have to go back to it and fix it again next week and fix it again next week and fix it again next week. So even though everybody agreed that was the way to do it. The first time I said, Hey this line is gonna be down for a week. We have to get parts in, we have to go through it. We have to fix it. For sure they were not happy. But the president or the, maybe he was the vice president at the time, he and I literally pinky swore that we would do it, we'd fix it right the first time. And so he held tight to that and he said, okay, we're gonna figure it out and we'll make do and we did. And they saw that we fixed it and it got better. Every time that we could make something better. It just saved a little bit of time for the operations group and it certainly didn't happen overnight. It took when months of tweaking and, we constantly had breakdowns, so we were PMing things. On a regular basis because we didn't know how far it could go before it actually would break when it was well maintained in the beginning. So we it was our system, right? Like we could make it anything we wanted it to be. So with Excel and Word is literally the whole program and we. We could adjust it as things ran better and bearings were greased regularly and belts were checked on a normal basis. Maybe it was weekly, and then it would go to monthly, and then it would go to bimonthly and then it would go to every six months or whatever. And then maybe it's six months, it, we'd have a failure and would do, oh, nope, that was too far. So then we come back and, maybe it's every three months we do something. Yeah, it was quite a process and the maintenance guys were awesome. They just, they would constantly keep up with all the work and keep up with how the equipment really was performing and that was awesome.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 26:29

And then sometime in there from when you started in between when you started and when you left, you went back to school. What was that about?

Renee's audio backup-3: 26:40

Yeah. Yeah. This company was awesome as far as they paid for my MBA. The owner of our company really values education and he's helped several of our, of the employees that worked there get their degrees. Some of them were undergraduates, some were MBAs. Mine was an MBA from Malone, I'm real proud of that. It was a lot of work after hours again working full-time during the day and then taking night classes for a couple years to get my MBA. But I am pretty proud of that

Caroline's audio backup-4: 27:11

Absolutely. I'm glad that finally somebody kept their promise so would would

Renee's audio backup-3: 27:18

contracts contracts There were on both sides Yes

Caroline's audio backup-4: 27:22

good. So then. You're progressing, continuing to have more responsibility, more great projects that you're working on. And then you started maybe feeling a little bit interestingly differently. What sort of symptoms did you notice, maybe physically or emotionally or any of that? What started happening and what was your initial response.

Renee's audio backup-3: 27:54

Yeah. Yeah, so it was right before Covid actually happened one of the plant managers, unfortunately for him, had a heart attack and a stroke back to back, and so he was out for several months with each of those and, we were struggling as a company to make sure everything ran well, though it was okay. And then Covid hit and I said, Hey, all of our projects are canceled. Nobody knew. If you remember back then we were a medical company and so we were mandatory. Nobody knew from day to day what was happening and everything was changing. Our projects were canceled. We said we're gonna, not spend money where we don't have to. And I asked what can I do? What can I do to help? And my boss said, Hey, you can go help with there's plant that needs a manager and be more involved there. and so that's what I got to do and I got into the operations side. We started making some great progress. we saw some efficiencies happening and I, I really enjoyed it. And a year later that move was made official and so I went from being the Director of Engineering to Director of Operations and initially we thought I would take on maybe all the operations, but in reality it didn't work out. I was still doing the engineering role, they didn't hire for that position and so I was still doing projects and managing the maintenance department, making sure that was running smoothly enough, and also working on the operations side and trying to really learn and understand. Even though I'd been there for maybe about 15 years I, I had never really worked on the operations side and my perspective was completely different and so I was really trying to understand that better and see where I could really make a big impact from the operations side.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 29:45

had basically all your jobs just kept getting added onto. How did that. Work as far as how long were you working? How much stress was that?

Renee's audio backup-3: 29:59

yeah, it was definitely a lot of stress and I thought there was an end to it. I thought that based on conversations with the president of the company, that when the fiscal year started, we could budget for another, I. Engineer to come and backfill that side of it, do those sort of tasks, and then I could do more operations. And when, man, it was yeah, it was a lot of stress. I felt like I couldn't get anything accomplished 100% and do a good job with it. I was constantly jumping from thing to thing and trying to get projects done and then trying to get operations efficiencies done. And I really was in the meantime of all of that my mom passed away and there's a lot of if you've ever had a family member pass away, there's just a lot that goes with that. And so that was going on in my personal life. Yeah, I, I. Was on, on more medications and I felt angry more often. I was stressed and so I wasn't I think I would reflect on it as I wasn't a very good manager to my direct reports and I was a difficult coworker for a while. Mostly I would say because I was stressed and,

Caroline's audio backup-4: 31:19

I think you were spending a lot of time being everything to everybody but yourself. Would you agree? Were you putting, so you are the type of person that you're given a challenge, you're given an opportunity to help, and you go all in, and you don't necessarily think about how that's actually affecting your own wellbeing because you are a giver and a leader and somebody who strives for excellence and gets excellence, but just kept pushing. Is that. Fair to say.

Renee's audio backup-3: 31:54

Yeah. And I think I was pushing not only myself, I think I was trying to push the people I was working with at, in all levels, whatever level. And I was pushing and I. That wasn't the way I was used to working, and so it, it created some turmoil. And I had a tough year with a lot of my coworkers and I don't know that it was any one specific thing. Yeah, I think it was just pushing and trying to do more and maybe I was. I can reflect that I was losing some trust because I would get into a project and jump on them for not doing it well enough or fast enough, and then I would jump to something else, leaving them in this like puddle of I don't know what, of turmoil and then they didn't know whether they should move on and go forward, or they should wait for me to jump back in and tell'em how they were doing things wrong in the beginning. And so I, I think that really was eye-opening for me to see that

Caroline's audio backup-4: 33:05

And what year was this? roughly I

Renee's audio backup-3: 33:11

of 2023 and the beginning of 2024.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 33:16

then what led you to reach out? Tell me how that all went down. To reach out to me. Like all of a sudden you're popping up in my inbox and it seemed a phenomenal time for both of us, but like from your side, what

Renee's audio backup-3: 33:37

Yeah. I was I was super frustrated. I am, I'm. Fairly certain that everybody was frustrated at that time. Projects weren't getting done. It, a lot of frustration on everybody's standpoint. And I just thought this isn't good. I was mad when I was at home. My husband and I started arguing. I was just angry a lot and I said, this can't go on this anymore. And I said, ah. I have seen Caroline's picture twice on my LinkedIn, and she was doing recruiting the last time I talked to her. I'm gonna reach out to her and see just if she has anything maybe that, I don't know. Just see. And so I would like to say that I was called to, to call you. I, and I know that it's just LinkedIn and maybe people don't, maybe you don't believe, but I know you and I believe and, I saw you on there and when I called you one of the things that stood out to me was. First of all, we picked up right where we'd been all the years before. You've been raising children and I've been here working more, and you'd been working. Fast forward I don't know, a good few years. And we caught back up almost immediately. Like we were still living in Spanton Hall 19 old old old was awesome old was awesome. The second thing that I took away from that was that you had left your big career and and this is your story, but from my side that you had left your big career and you were starting your own thing and that you had a one year non-compete. And gosh, it had just run out the week before we had our first conversation.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 35:21

Yeah.

Renee's audio backup-3: 35:22

Yeah.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 35:24

And so I remember in that conversation that I just had nothing but compassion, love, and understanding from the point where you were, and I could have that compassion, love, and understanding because I had. Similarly, different company, different thing. I had reached a point where I was outwardly successful by many measures, but inwardly there was rage and there was anger, and I was losing it on strangers. There was a poor checkout girl at Chipotle that got to see my wrath really embarrassingly for my child who happened to also be there, but like it was nothing that she did. Really it wasn't, she was just the wrong person at the wrong time. And I had been trying to stuff down feelings and emotions, so for so long thinking that I could, should be able to handle whatever was happening. And I was so frustrated that some things that I wanted to change about where I worked. I couldn't change and it wasn't for lack of trying or for lack of giving very well thought out data. It didn't come across the right way. I'm sure I delivered it poorly, but very succinct and matter of fact that this is exactly what's wrong. And I tried to, but I tried to find I then took time to try to find a way out, and I also realized that this was a recurring thing that I had seen even in many years of recruiting. People had successful positions, high titles, decent salary, good other people that they work with yet reached a limit. Didn't feel successful and then weren't loving the life that they created. In fact, their life got the leftover. It didn't get the best of them. My family was not getting the best of me, and your family was not getting the best of you. And so when we talked, I was like hey. I just spent this time and I've got this program that I'm getting ready to start. Seems like it's at the perfect time for you. Would you like to be involved and how hard of a decision? Like it was not very well defined. I had an idea, I had a hypothesis, but it was not proven yet. Now it's proven. And you're one of the people that's gone through every single thing, so I'd love to get your view on that. How easy was it to just take a leap and decide to enter into this undefined program at the time?

Renee's audio backup-3: 38:19

Yeah. First of all, I know and love you and I knew that whatever you do, you would be incredibly knowledgeable about. You would come at it from the science standpoint, which is where I love to know that side of it, right? What's the science behind it and and then knowing that you were putting your whole everything into it. You were researching and putting your whole career was gonna be this, and I know you well enough to know you wouldn't put everything into something if it wasn't really transformative and I knew something had to change in me and I could just see it. It was such an easy decision for me to say yes. I knew that it was no problem. Of course there was, there's money involved and I was fortunate that I was one of the early ones. And and I can understand how people may have some sort of reservation about, spending money on themselves for something that is work on yourself. That seems Like from the outside I can say what we did was complex and deep and really thought provoking and you guided. Me through exercises that, I don't know maybe anybody could do the exercises. But then when you asked me questions like, why do you think that is? And what might've led to that? Or Why do you think you feel that way? And then not only did you ask the question once. You might ask it a couple times to really dig down into what was really going on and things that I didn't know, things that I didn't know about myself. One of the first things we did together was the disc assessment. And I've done that before through my company, and I've done it with tons of people. So I had a little, I went in thinking I knew everything. And quite honestly I was pretty sure that I did. And I, I could teach this, it'd be fine. It'd be all right, but I'll play along. Okay. So I go in and we get into it and I'm a high ID and we were talking about it and I knew where I was gonna end up coming out, and I did. I came out in

Caroline's audio backup-4: 40:48

And that's why I picked that assessment, that particular brand, because it is reliable, valid. I'm just saying Clifton strengths, every time I take it, it's different. I cannot stand behind that disc. The one that I picked. It's consistent with somebody's natural style is consistent. The adapted maybe'cause of their environment. Okay, so you knew where you were gonna come out and you did,

Renee's audio backup-3: 41:12

all

Caroline's audio backup-4: 41:13

all

Renee's audio backup-3: 41:13

all I knew all the things that we were gonna talk about wanting options and, being relationship focused and being quick and all these things. I knew all that and we did, we talked about many of those things. It plus some other things that were in there. And then you asked me questions about why. I might feel so strongly about people and needing to take care of them. And I think I just lost it. Like I started crying, realizing like that is I from growing up, I think I mentioned. My dad passing away when I was 10. Excuse me, I I had a little sister. I have a little sister who was just six. And so taking care of her and taking care of my mom. That was my role. And so at some point that translated into taking care of people, my, my employees, my coworkers, background.

Caroline's audio backup-4: 42:29

it. I love your puppy. Don't

Renee's audio backup-3: 42:31

and

Caroline's audio backup-4: 42:32

I

Renee's audio backup-3: 42:32

yeah, I think that. Conversation that we had about why what changed and why I was focusing on taking so much care, why I felt like I had to, not that I wanted to, but I felt like I had to. Take care of all these people, and they quite frankly, didn't need me to be taking care of them, and it was probably more detrimental. So I, I knew where I was on that disc assessment, and yet I hadn't explored what that really meant as a coworker and as a leader. And though I had positives and even that, my strengths and weaknesses on the disc and Indra I didn't realize that it was so deeply rooted in who I was and that I could make adjustments to that based on who I wanted to be as a leader. And yeah, and pulling those things out after we had conversation. And that changed so many

Caroline's audio backup-4: 43:39

I think this is important to to talk about a little bit further here because I had that too. So it's you, meaning when we grow up, certain things happen, ending up being for us at this at the time it seems to us. Or we just one day after the other. And we are adjusting and we are doing the best that we can and we're getting through and we're making decisions and observations as children and conclusions as to what that must mean. And then just going around our, on our, in our life. Accordingly, according to the data that we had from when we made that choice. But yet we get so far removed from it that we forget that it was a choice and some things just become, this is just how the world is. This is just what it is. You're a giver. You take care of people, right? I'm gonna be assertive and tell everybody what I think like it's so that it can, and I'm gonna get, we're both gonna be really high achieving. Get whatever a reward or goal is set out there. And without ever pausing, stopping firstly, allowing that space and realizing it is okay to take a minute for my own self, and if I can take care of others, why am I taking the least care of me? I'm, I've been walking around with me this whole time. But just, yeah, trying to have that. Recognition and pause and realization that yes, I can choose something different and if it's gonna serve you for your future, I think that was a thing too how's that working out for you? How are you? And on one hand I felt, s like, I didn't want to bring up something that became, painful memories or sad. And on the other hand, I was so thankful that you felt safe enough in that space to allow some of those emotions that you had ignored or tried to. Stuff, try to pretend they weren't there because you're super strong and you can get through anything. And just allowing some of that to just be, and for you to start becoming who you are more

46:01

Renee is the kind of woman who brings excellence, care, and energy to everything she does. She built a powerful career, earned the trust of her team, and kept things running even in difficult seasons. Over time, the joy started to fade. The spark got quieter and the life she had built began to feel more like something to manage than something to enjoy. In the next episode, you'll hear what happened when she stepped into the next success method, how she uncovered the deeper patterns at play, realigned with her strengths and values, and began to create a life and career that truly reflect who she is. The work isn't about fixing something that's broken. It's about honoring who you've always been and giving yourself the space to rise. If you're feeling that quiet pull, like it's time for something new, take one small step today. Download the Navigating Career Transitions Guide. In the show notes. You have permission to reclaim your future, design a life you want, and show up intentionally and joyfully for what comes next. Be sure to follow the podcast so you don't miss part two, and I'll see you next time on your next success. Keep going. You're not done yet.

Caroline: 47:19

Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr. Caroline Sangal. Remember, authentic success is yours to define and includes aligning your career to support the life you want.